Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#41
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
On Sun, 2008-08-31 at 18:02 +0000, malc wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote: I should hope it places a resistor between L and N and across the current transformer. So that it actually tests what it is supposed to be doing rather than relying on another path that might not exist. But a resistor between L & N only simulates a load so it won't trip the RCD. A RCD relies on an imbalance between the current in the Live wire and the current in the Neutral wire. So the test will put a resistor between L and Earth or between N and Earth. If you put a resistor between L & N the same current flows in both wires so won't trip the breaker. The resistor goes from output L to input N (or vice-versa), bypassing one side of the transformer. Mike |
#42
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.camping,uk.rec.caravanning
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
On 31/08/2008 19:02, malc wrote:
But a resistor between L & N only simulates a load so it won't trip the RCD. A RCD relies on an imbalance between the current in the Live wire and the current in the Neutral wire. So the test will put a resistor between L and Earth or between N and Earth. If you put a resistor between L & N the same current flows in both wires so won't trip the breaker. But the way Dave showed the resistor and "T" button diagonally across the current transformer, it would register as an imbalance and cause it to trip, besides RCDs that I've fitted don't *have* an earth connecton. Trust me I work with electricity every day. Hmmmm. |
#43
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Dave Plowman (News)" saying something like: The point is that other countries could have adopted this and did not Can you name any developed country which has changed their plug and socket design - apart from the UK? cough -- Dave GS850x2 XS650 SE6a "It's a moron working with power tools. How much more suspenseful can you get?" - House |
#44
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.camping,uk.rec.caravanning
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
Andy Burns wrote:
But the way Dave showed the resistor and "T" button diagonally across the current transformer, it would register as an imbalance and cause it to trip, besides RCDs that I've fitted don't *have* an earth connecton. Bloody ASCII art. If there is no earth connection then it could still work as an RCD because RCDs rely on the leakage created by a fault down to earth/through you or whatever. So long as the current comes out of the live and doesn't return to neutral there will be an imbalance and the device will trip [1] Trust me I work with electricity every day. Hmmmm. Heh! [1] OK I know we're talking about AC here but for simplicity's sake... -- Malc R1100RS old and tatty You laugh at me because I am different I laugh at you because you are all the same |
#45
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.camping,uk.rec.caravanning
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
On 31/08/2008 21:20, malc wrote:
Bloody ASCII art. :-) If there is no earth connection then it could still work as an RCD because RCDs rely on the leakage created by a fault down to earth/through you or whatever. So long as the current comes out of the live and doesn't return to neutral there will be an imbalance and the device will trip [1] Oh sure, in normal operation the current imbalance can arise because some of the current returns via the earth conductor, or the actual muddy earth, or the "wrong" neutral. I was just talking about how the test button would cause an imbalance (without requiring an earth connection to the RCD itself). |
#46
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
Anthony R. Gold wrote:
Codes live and evolve. It was suggested that just adding fuses to exiting plugs would be "a good idea" and there is nothing in the design of the I am not sure the suggestion (in itself) holds much merit. In many cases you would be fusing the plug at or near that of the circuit. The result would be an inability to discriminate in the event of a fault. This would just increase service and rectification times. It would only be a worthwhile exercise if you also increased the current capacity of the standard circuits. However that would at a stroke require all the plugs used on it to be fused. So it seems unlikely to happen since the changeover would be too costly etc. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#47
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
Anthony R. Gold wrote:
Turn it round the other way, can you justify the need for a plug fuse just on the basis of having parallel connection paths to the circuit breaker? (or for that matter any other unique characteristic of a ring circuit other than its high current delivery capacity) I understand the sequence to be that post-war poverty and copper shortage led to the power ring. The power ring resulted in bringing 3kW to each and Yup, the original reason for the use of ring circuits was partly to save copper. It was also IIUC, the intention to be able to supply enough power for day to day needs and also heat a house if required. Hence = 7kW per circuit, and circuits being able to cover a wide floor area. every power outlet, and having 3kW power available everywhere requires additional protection for appliance cords and flexes. AFAIK no country wires radially with the requirement that 3kW is available to each appliance outlet. We don't here either - with rings or radials. The circuit designs assume diversity - i.e. the assumption that not every outlet will require the full 13A. This matches real world usage rather well. IMO, in this chicken and egg argument, it is povertyring3kWfused plugs. but you may see it differently. I do, because a ring is not the only circuit that requires protection at the plug. Also there is nothing intrinsic to the ring itself that requires the fusing, only the magnitude of the current. Since radials of equal power are also permitted in our wiring regs, it seems inappropriate to attribute the requirement for fusing to a ring circuit. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#48
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
In article ,
John Rumm writes: Anthony R. Gold wrote: Codes live and evolve. It was suggested that just adding fuses to exiting plugs would be "a good idea" and there is nothing in the design of the I am not sure the suggestion (in itself) holds much merit. In many cases you would be fusing the plug at or near that of the circuit. The result would be an inability to discriminate in the event of a fault. This would just increase service and rectification times. It would only be a worthwhile exercise if you also increased the current capacity of the standard circuits. However that would at a stroke require all the plugs used on it to be fused. So it seems unlikely to happen since the changeover would be too costly etc. You can't just consider plugs in isolation. The 13A plug was one part of a whole new wiring scheme, which included the circuit layout, circuit protection, earthing, area power requirements, etc. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#49
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article , John Rumm writes: Anthony R. Gold wrote: Codes live and evolve. It was suggested that just adding fuses to exiting plugs would be "a good idea" and there is nothing in the design of the I am not sure the suggestion (in itself) holds much merit. In many cases you would be fusing the plug at or near that of the circuit. The result would be an inability to discriminate in the event of a fault. This would just increase service and rectification times. It would only be a worthwhile exercise if you also increased the current capacity of the standard circuits. However that would at a stroke require all the plugs used on it to be fused. So it seems unlikely to happen since the changeover would be too costly etc. You can't just consider plugs in isolation. The 13A plug was one part of a whole new wiring scheme, which included the circuit layout, circuit protection, earthing, area power requirements, etc. Indeed, so a non starter really... -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#50
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.camping,uk.rec.caravanning
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:02:28 GMT, malc wrote:
I should hope it places a resistor between L and N and across the current transformer. But a resistor between L & N only simulates a load so it won't trip the RCD. Correct. A RCD relies on an imbalance between the current in the Live wire and the current in the Neutral wire. Correct. So the test will put a resistor between L and Earth or between N and Earth. They might but then they are not producing a reliable test of the current transformer. The above test relies on an external circuit (the Earth) that an RCD does not require. If you put a resistor between L & N the same current flows in both wires so won't trip the breaker. True enough but read what I wrote not what you think I wrote. Trust me I work with electricity every day. I'd rather not, your basic understanding seems to be some what lacking. -- Cheers Dave. |
#51
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.camping,uk.rec.caravanning
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
On Aug 31, 11:37*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote: Trust me I work with electricity every day. I'd rather not, your basic understanding seems to be some what lacking. Heh. So if you need a radiotherapy machine sorting don't come to me then... -- Malc |
#52
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.camping,uk.rec.caravanning
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message ll.net... On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:02:28 GMT, malc wrote: I should hope it places a resistor between L and N and across the current transformer. But a resistor between L & N only simulates a load so it won't trip the RCD. Correct. A RCD relies on an imbalance between the current in the Live wire and the current in the Neutral wire. Correct. So the test will put a resistor between L and Earth or between N and Earth. They might but then they are not producing a reliable test of the current transformer. The above test relies on an external circuit (the Earth) that an RCD does not require. If you put a resistor between L & N the same current flows in both wires so won't trip the breaker. True enough but read what I wrote not what you think I wrote. Trust me I work with electricity every day. I'd rather not, your basic understanding seems to be some what lacking. AIUI you either need a resistor to earth, which could potentially raise the earth voltage to mains if its faulty, so would be unwise, or put a resistor across one side of the current transformer, diverting some of the current and tripping the device. Maybe it would be easier to just short out a few turns to make it unbalanced? |
#53
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.camping,uk.rec.caravanning
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
In article
, Malc wrote: On Aug 31, 11:37 pm, "Dave Liquorice" wrote: Trust me I work with electricity every day. I'd rather not, your basic understanding seems to be some what lacking. Heh. So if you need a radiotherapy machine sorting don't come to me then... No wonder the health service is in a state, then. You stated you need to provide an earth path to test an RCD in response to Mr Liquorice's post. You patently have no knowledge of a domestic CU otherwise you'd know there is no earth connection to the RCD(s) - yet a test button is provided. -- *TEAMWORK...means never having to take all the blame yourself * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#54
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.camping,uk.rec.caravanning
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
"Anthony R. Gold" wrote in message ... On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 08:51:07 +0100, "dennis@home" wrote: AIUI you either need a resistor to earth, which could potentially raise the earth voltage to mains if its faulty, so would be unwise, or put a resistor across one side of the current transformer, diverting some of the current and tripping the device. Maybe it would be easier to just short out a few turns to make it unbalanced? Neither putting a resistor across one side of the current transformer nor shorting part of the current transformer would allow the trip test button to work without an operating load. Why not just listen to Dave? Maybe, but I didn't say it didn't put a load across the coils too. I pointed out how to get an imbalance not how to make one. |
#55
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
In uk.d-i-y, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article , Mike Barnes writes: In uk.d-i-y, John Rumm wrote: The crux of the issue is that if you have a circuit capable of supplying a current significantly in excess of the rating of the appliance flex, then you need a overcurrent protected plug. So its not really anything to do with the circuit being a ring or not, even if that is the most commonly encountered 32A circuit in the UK. I agree, but most of the world doesn't have fused plugs. So is there a major problem with, say, those 3A flexes running to laptop power bricks, plugged into a radial circuit limited to (say) 16A?? They have to be short, so they can pass the fault current required to trip a 16A breaker. In practice, this doesn't seem to be a problem. The only effect in the UK when our appliances became subject to EU rules in this area was that the lengths of such flexs are now limited to 2 or 3 metres. When using a 3A fused plug, the limit on length was much longer than was ever likely to be encountered. Most appliances don't have a failure mode whereby they can overload their flex, so there isn't a risk of running 15A continuously through a 3A flex. The flex does have to handle a fault current though (dead short), and pass enough current so that the 16A breaker trips before the flex overheats. This requires the flex resistance to be low, and hence the limit on flex lengths. The one item which completely screws up such design considerations is an extension cable. These are routinely available in lengths and sizes which are not intrinsicly safe. Even if they weren't, people would still plug them together to contrive to make them so. Thanks, that all makes perfect sense to me. Is that 2 or 3 metre flex length limit for a 16A breaker or for a 32A breaker? And with such a short flex would it be permissible to use a 13A fuse in the plug? -- Mike Barnes |
#56
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.camping,uk.rec.caravanning
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
"dennis@home" wrote in message ... "Anthony R. Gold" wrote in message ... On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 08:51:07 +0100, "dennis@home" wrote: AIUI you either need a resistor to earth, which could potentially raise the earth voltage to mains if its faulty, so would be unwise, or put a resistor across one side of the current transformer, diverting some of the current and tripping the device. Maybe it would be easier to just short out a few turns to make it unbalanced? Neither putting a resistor across one side of the current transformer nor shorting part of the current transformer would allow the trip test button to work without an operating load. Why not just listen to Dave? Maybe, but I didn't say it didn't put a load across the coils too. I pointed out how to get an imbalance not how to make one. The trouble with this thread is that you're both right! 1. The 'domestic' style RCD does not have an earth connection. 2. The test resistor does go between the L & N poles but 3. The resistor goes between the L load terminal and the N supply terminal. This unbalances the RCD by taking the test current through the RCD but not allowing it to pass back through the device. Cheap, simple and mostly effective. I hope that this clears up the working of the RCD which will therefore work whichever polarity is connected to it. So now we're back to the original problem of getting the polarity correct when connecting a continental supply to a UK & Ireland caravan. Pedro |
#57
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
In article ,
Mike Barnes writes: In uk.d-i-y, Andrew Gabriel wrote: In article , Mike Barnes writes: I agree, but most of the world doesn't have fused plugs. So is there a major problem with, say, those 3A flexes running to laptop power bricks, plugged into a radial circuit limited to (say) 16A?? They have to be short, so they can pass the fault current required to trip a 16A breaker. In practice, this doesn't seem to be a problem. The only effect in the UK when our appliances became subject to EU rules in this area was that the lengths of such flexs are now limited to 2 or 3 metres. When using a 3A fused plug, the limit on length was much longer than was ever likely to be encountered. Most appliances don't have a failure mode whereby they can overload their flex, so there isn't a risk of running 15A continuously through a 3A flex. The flex does have to handle a fault current though (dead short), and pass enough current so that the 16A breaker trips before the flex overheats. This requires the flex resistance to be low, and hence the limit on flex lengths. The one item which completely screws up such design considerations is an extension cable. These are routinely available in lengths and sizes which are not intrinsicly safe. Even if they weren't, people would still plug them together to contrive to make them so. Thanks, that all makes perfect sense to me. Is that 2 or 3 metre flex length limit for a 16A breaker or for a 32A breaker? And with such a short flex would it be permissible to use a 13A fuse in the plug? It's for a 16A breaker. Any modern appliance with a 13A plug also needs to remain safe when moved elsewhere in the EU and connected to a 16A outlet without a fused plug. You are correct that in theory you can use a 13A fuse in all appliance plugs nowadays, except for old appliances with thin flexs which are longer than EU regs now allow, and extension cords. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#58
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.camping,uk.rec.caravanning
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 00:26:26 -0700 (PDT), Malc wrote:
Trust me I work with electricity every day. I'd rather not, your basic understanding seems to be some what lacking. Heh. So if you need a radiotherapy machine sorting don't come to me then... TBH the thought of someone with your lack of basic knowledge, or perhaps the inabilty to admit a mistake, being allowed to mess with radio therapy machines worries me. -- Cheers Dave. |
#59
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.camping,uk.rec.caravanning
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 15:35:37 +0100, Pedro wrote:
I hope that this clears up the working of the RCD which will therefore work whichever polarity is connected to it. So now we're back to the original problem of getting the polarity correct when connecting a continental supply to a UK & Ireland caravan. Which brings us back to RCDs not being polarity sensitive and if tripping when connected with "reverse" polarity indicates something a miss with the caravans wiring after the RCD. I suspect that the incoming "neutral" is bonded to the caravan chassis and the chassis is also connected to the incoming "earth". This is incorrect, after the RCD the three supply wires "live", "neutral" and "earth" should be kept and remain seperate. If a given the supply only provides "live" and "neutral" then the caravan chassis must be connected to real ground with an earth spike. -- Cheers Dave. |
#60
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.camping,uk.rec.caravanning
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
On 1 Sep, 09:25, "Anthony R. Gold" wrote:
Neither putting a resistor across one side of the current transformer nor shorting part of the current transformer would allow the trip test button to work without an operating load. *Why not just listen to Dave? That's not what Dave wrote. A resistor between L&N, but bypassing half of the current transformer's bifilar winding (this is what Dave's diagram showed), _will_ trigger the RCD without any load connected. Shorting half of the transformer will need a load current too, agreed. |
#61
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.camping,uk.rec.caravanning
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message ll.net... On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 15:35:37 +0100, Pedro wrote: I hope that this clears up the working of the RCD which will therefore work whichever polarity is connected to it. So now we're back to the original problem of getting the polarity correct when connecting a continental supply to a UK & Ireland caravan. Which brings us back to RCDs not being polarity sensitive and if tripping when connected with "reverse" polarity indicates something a miss with the caravans wiring after the RCD. I suspect that the incoming "neutral" is bonded to the caravan chassis and the chassis is also connected to the incoming "earth". This is incorrect, after the RCD the three supply wires "live", "neutral" and "earth" should be kept and remain seperate. If a given the supply only provides "live" and "neutral" then the caravan chassis must be connected to real ground with an earth spike. -- Cheers Dave. The UK & Ireland Wiring Regulations specifically forbid any connection other than the PE (earth) to be made to any exposed metalwork in/on the caravan. This means that it is illegal to connect the neutral to the chassis either before or after the RCD. In the event of a polarity reversal someone could be killed just stepping into or out of the van. A caravan without an RCD (it is not legal to sell a van without an RCD in the UK & Ireland and I think in western Europe) 'SHALL have' a protective earthing spike which has been tested to ensure its effectiveness in meeting the requirements of the Regulations. Clearly this is not practical with Joe Public pitching his/her tourer. I can just see the site owner's face when asked "What is the prospective short circuit capability of your supply and what type and rating of protective device is immediately upstream of your point of user supply?" On some sites I've been on this would then result in me driving in at least 3 metres of earth rod alongside the van - probably going through a cable or pipe at that depth!! Before someone queries the first sentence, it is legal for the 12 volt system to have one pole (usually the negative) connected to the earth/chassis. Some manufacturers do this others don't. It can slightly increase safety under certain fault conditions. Pedro |
#62
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.camping,uk.rec.caravanning
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
"Anthony R. Gold" wrote in message ... On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 03:13:51 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley wrote: On 1 Sep, 09:25, "Anthony R. Gold" wrote: Neither putting a resistor across one side of the current transformer nor shorting part of the current transformer would allow the trip test button to work without an operating load. Why not just listen to Dave? That's not what Dave wrote. A resistor between L&N, but bypassing half of the current transformer's bifilar winding (this is what Dave's diagram showed), _will_ trigger the RCD without any load connected. Shorting half of the transformer will need a load current too, agreed. Maybe you are not using a threaded reader - I was replying to Dennis and contradicting him and I was agreeing with Dave. Yes he was contradicting something that was correct. Best leave him alone and see if he learns anything. 8-) Tony |
#63
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.camping,uk.rec.caravanning
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
"Lobster" wrote in message ... Malcolm wrote: Lobster wrote: I'm in the middle of wiring up a cable for an electrical hook up to be used while camping in France. I have a French 3-pin plug bought there on a previous visit, but in opening it up I find there's absolutely no indication which of the two power pins is live and neutral. Doesn't it matter? I will be using the cable with an RCD device; won't that object and trip out if the wiring's the wrong way round? Or is it a case of "suck it and see" when I get to France, and if it's wrong, reverse the wiring? Thanks David A number of years ago when caravanning in France/Spain I was warned by a friend about polarity problems when using an RCD. I fitted a switch (DPDT) the the (old) van so that I could easily change polarity. Sure enough on one site in France when a new arrival plugged my leadinto a different socket on the same set of sockets I discovered that the system had trippedbecause the polarity was reversed. On a site in Spain this polarity reversal happened without the lead being unplugged! You need three adaptors 16A blue to 16 A blue, polarity reversed 16A blue to continental 16A blue to continental, polarity reversed If the RCD trips and won't reset, reverse the polarity. Our continental cousins don't have the concept of live and neutral that we do OK, thanks - think I've got it now! Will organise some more hardware before my next trip. I don't intend to use any power without an RCD, but just for my education and information, if I *were* to do so, would all my kit (laptop/fridge/chargers) all work OK without problems, then? What do the French etc do about this polarity problem - do they not bother with RCDs while camping or whatever? David Sorry 'Lobster' I didn't get back to you, I thinks there are all your answers on here already! Steve. |
#64
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.camping,uk.rec.caravanning
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
John Mann wrote:
In message , Lobster writes Malcolm wrote: Lobster wrote: I'm in the middle of wiring up a cable for an electrical hook up to be used while camping in France. I have a French 3-pin plug bought there on a previous visit, but in opening it up I find there's absolutely no indication which of the two power pins is live and neutral. Doesn't it matter? However as much of Europe uses 2 pin reversible plugs it can obviously be connected either way. Which, I would have thought, is the obvious and simple answer :-) -- Geoff |
#65
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.camping,uk.rec.caravanning
|
|||
|
|||
Wiring of European plugs - live/neutral??
David Klyne wrote:
OK, thanks - think I've got it now! Will organise some more hardware before my next trip. I don't intend to use any power without an RCD, but just for my education and information, if I *were* to do so, would all my kit (laptop/fridge/chargers) all work OK without problems, then? What do the French etc do about this polarity problem - do they not bother with RCDs while camping or whatever? Generally reverse polarity will make little difference to 230 volt appliances in good working order. The problem with UK appliances occurs if the appliance has a fault and remains on when you think it is off as we only switched on the live side. Mind you newer caravans don't seem to have socket switches now which makes it a bit more difficult. If its any help this is how I have explained it on my website http://www.davidklyne.plus.com/frenc...anelectric.htm The best option is the have a short cable with CEE17 male and sockets at either end with one end reversed. This can then be used with either you manin cable or with the continental adaptor. At least that works for me. Have a good trip. Thanks for all the responses. In the event the power supply was via standard UK blue sockets, all the electrics worked OK, and nobody got fried! [notwithstanding France being as wet as the UK apparently was last week :-( ] David David |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Live or neutral? | UK diy | |||
Crossing live and neutral wires ? | UK diy | |||
Live/Neutral problem On lighting circuit | UK diy | |||
Live and Neutral incorrect wiring | UK diy | |||
Lighting circuit...switch live or neutral | UK diy |