"Derek Geldard" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 00:11:10 +0100, "Jerry"

wrote:


"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message m...
snip

Ah. That would be 'common sense' snip

Nice if you are old enough and well enough to have some....

Shame upon you for thinking for yourselfsnip

Nice if you are old enough and well enough to do so....

Sorry & allthat but we are.

Contrary to Nu-Labour / Prescotesque doctrine ...

The human race has survived this far without it.


That's a matter of opinion...

"Huge" wrote in message
...
snip

I suppose statistics from hospital A&E departments are driving
this.

Yeah. Right.


Yes, quite correct, but then the "I'm alright, F*CK you" idiots never
do like the facts that blow their self-centred rants out of the water.
--
Wikipedia: the Internet equivalent of
Hyde Park and 'speakers corner'...

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember (Andrew
Gabriel) saying something like:

In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon writes:

I noticed there is continual mention of 'Self-certification', which
makes me wonder if there's a move behind the scenes to have plumbing
controlled in a watery version of Part P. I'd not be surprised if the
Instute of Plumbing or some other body is wangling to become the issuing
body for official certs of competence for pipe-benders.

They already went down this path and had a compitent persons
scheme set up. No one joined it. Government had to abandon it.

Next try round I can see it being more compulsory. This 'scalding' thing
is just the kind of thing to whip up concern and all it needs is a few
cases of cowboy plumbers and heating installers leaving burst pipes,
rads or exploding boilers to make all the voluntary schemes compulsory.
Most people see plumbing as benign, not just lying in wait to kill them,
as the popular conception of electricity is, so it was easy to
scare-push through the Part P - stand by for scare stories relating to
bad pipework.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House

Huge wrote:

I suppose statistics from hospital A&E departments are driving this.

Yeah. Right.

It's actually been a hobby horse of that awful, whining "You and Yours"
programme on Radio 4. I think the Daily Mail has also been on the
bandwagon. It has of course absolutely **** all to do with statistics.

It's an idea from the same morons who insist that coffee should only be
served lukewarm.

Jerry wrote:

"Huge" wrote in message
...
snip

I suppose statistics from hospital A&E departments are driving
this.

Yeah. Right.


Yes, quite correct, but then the "I'm alright, F*CK you" idiots never
do like the facts that blow their self-centred rants out of the water.

OK, if it's evidence based, provide a link to the evidence. It shouldn't
be difficult to do.

Off you go.

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:25:44 +0100, "Jerry"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On 16 Aug,
"Jerry" wrote:

I very much suspect so, I also suspect that you have not bothered
to
follow the various questions and debates that have occoured in
Parliament on this issue - it has been the evidence from A&E
departments (in the form of admittance records IIRC) etc. that has
brought the issue to the fore.

Mostly from non domestic premises, hostels, and care homes. AIUI
they already
have to have TMVs as a result.


No, the figures come from domestic accidents.


You haven't given any figures !

Derek

Jerry wrote:


"Derek Geldard" wrote in message
...

[snip]

Portable baby baths used to be filled by kettles when we had babies.

Yes, and no doubt many babies were scalded, that is no reason to carry
on allowing it to happen!

Are there any figures to show this? It was always standard practise to check
the bathwater temperature before placing a baby in it. The traditional test
of dipping your elbow in the water was reliable and needed no high tech
equipment.

ISTR the media reporting a case of an elderly disabled resident of a care
home dying as a result of scalding in a bath. This was apparently caused by
a failure of the TMV. Perhaps the presence of TMVs in these institutions
has resulted in carers no longer considering it necessary to satisfy
themselves that the water temperature is acceptable before use.

--
Mike Clarke

Are there any figures to show this? It was always standard practise to check
the bathwater temperature before placing a baby in it. The traditional test
of dipping your elbow in the water was reliable and needed no high tech
equipment.


Now we have electronic elbows to save us bending down

"Derek Geldard" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:25:44 +0100, "Jerry"

wrote:


wrote in message
...
On 16 Aug,
"Jerry" wrote:

I very much suspect so, I also suspect that you have not bothered
to
follow the various questions and debates that have occoured in
Parliament on this issue - it has been the evidence from A&E
departments (in the form of admittance records IIRC) etc. that
has
brought the issue to the fore.

Mostly from non domestic premises, hostels, and care homes. AIUI
they already
have to have TMVs as a result.


No, the figures come from domestic accidents.


You haven't given any figures !


But neither have you, all you have done (along with your clueless
buddies) is to claim that just because you like scalding yourself
everyone else does!
--
Wikipedia: the Internet equivalent of
Hyde Park and 'speakers corner'...

Jerry wrote:
"Derek Geldard" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:25:44 +0100, "Jerry"

wrote:

wrote in message
...
On 16 Aug,
"Jerry" wrote:

I very much suspect so, I also suspect that you have not bothered
to
follow the various questions and debates that have occoured in
Parliament on this issue - it has been the evidence from A&E
departments (in the form of admittance records IIRC) etc. that
has
brought the issue to the fore.
Mostly from non domestic premises, hostels, and care homes. AIUI
they already
have to have TMVs as a result.

No, the figures come from domestic accidents.

You haven't given any figures !


But neither have you, all you have done (along with your clueless
buddies) is to claim that just because you like scalding yourself
everyone else does!

I suspect this is mainly to do with young children getting scalded, and
more regulations would further deflect the blame from their brain dead
parents.

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:13:05 +0100, "Jerry"
wrote:


"Derek Geldard" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:25:44 +0100, "Jerry"

wrote:


wrote in message
...
On 16 Aug,
"Jerry" wrote:

I very much suspect so, I also suspect that you have not bothered
to
follow the various questions and debates that have occoured in
Parliament on this issue - it has been the evidence from A&E
departments (in the form of admittance records IIRC) etc. that
has
brought the issue to the fore.

Mostly from non domestic premises, hostels, and care homes. AIUI
they already
have to have TMVs as a result.


No, the figures come from domestic accidents.


You haven't given any figures !


But neither have you,

I'm not pontificating about it. He who asserts must prove !

"No, the figures come from domestic accidents"

all you have done (along with your clueless
buddies) is to claim that just because you like scalding yourself
everyone else does!

Too silly !

Derek

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
snip

I suspect this is mainly to do with young children getting scalded,
and more regulations would further deflect the blame from their
brain dead parents.

Well if the parents are 'brain dead' (to use your phrase) then the
state needs to do something to protect them, perhaps you would prefer
more children taken into care (presumably after they have had hospital
treatment) or perhaps your would prefer to go back to the 'Victorian'
era were children were seen as the property of who was in charge of
them and/or expendable?...
--
Wikipedia: the Internet equivalent of
Hyde Park and 'speakers corner'...

Jerry wrote:
"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2008-08-17, Steve Firth wrote:
Jerry wrote:

Huge obviously know little about commercial printing...
Guess what? You're wrong.
Although in his defence, McCorquodales was a long time ago.


So how come you don't understand the fact that the PDF file on the web
is a just a direct copy of the PDF file used by the printers of the
hard copy version?...

Not many printers will print from PDF.

Usually the PDF is an export from some other program which is what the
typesetters will use.

They will almost certainly not be using a laser printer if the volume is
expected to go above a few hundred copies.

Jerry wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
snip
The point is I need water at 60C to have baths the way I want to
have baths.

You do not *need* water at 60C,

That is a blatant misrepresentation of what I said above.

Go back and read it again.

Jerry wrote:
"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
snip
I suspect this is mainly to do with young children getting scalded,
and more regulations would further deflect the blame from their
brain dead parents.

Well if the parents are 'brain dead' (to use your phrase) then the
state needs to do something to protect them, perhaps you would prefer
more children taken into care (presumably after they have had hospital
treatment) or perhaps your would prefer to go back to the 'Victorian'
era were children were seen as the property of who was in charge of
them and/or expendable?...

Either would be preferable to the status quo.

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:31:22 +0100, "Jerry"
wrote:


"Derek Geldard" wrote in message
.. .
snip

I have no bath, I have thermostatic shower, I have a combi boiler
with the ho****er set at 60C wgich is fine for us, where does that
leave me ?


Scaled, after you didn't notice that the thermostat has been moved?...

Whereas if somebody tampered with a thermostatic mixing valve trying
to get the water hotter at a time when the hot supply was insufficient
thereby causing a scalding accident when it was restored it would
somehow be different ??

Derek

wrote in message
...
On Aug 16, 4:43 pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"Mike Clarke" wrote in message

...

Jerry wrote:

Are they proposing to specify these thermostatic taps for the wash
basin also then?

No.

So there's another danger. Someone rigs up a length of hose from the
basin
to the bath. They stand up in the bath and lean over to the washbasin
to
add more hot water, lose their balance and slip due to not much
friction
between feet and bath, knock themselves unconscious and drown in the
bath.

I solved that problem.. I put a 43C mixer immediately after the combi..
there are no *hot* water outlets and only a tefal one cup to heat water.


Bacteria must love you. Hope you dont have a shower.

Chlorine.
All the water is chlorinated by the water company and is still chlorinated
when it reaches the shower.

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...

- stand by for scare stories relating to
bad pipework.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/6176677.stm

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 19:09:55 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:



"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...

- stand by for scare stories relating to
bad pipework.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/6176677.stm


A terrible, terrible, tragedy.

Caused, not as the headline said by a pipe burst but when a badly
installed plastic tank became softened because it was filled with
boiling water due to a fault.

Thermostatic mixing valves on the taps would not help avoid this one
IOTA, and might even mask some of the symptoms (water being too hot at
the taps) leading to such a tragedy.

Sadly such little respect is shown for manual or practical skills that
the schools no longer teach how a domestic hot water system works.

We were taught in Physics and the Lab had a working model "house" set
up on a back board.

Derek

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Jerry wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
snip
The point is I need water at 60C to have baths the way I want to
have baths.

You do not *need* water at 60C,

That is a blatant misrepresentation of what I said above.


You wish...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
snip

Not many printers will print from PDF.
snip


Tell that to the magazine editors I know, design on Quark, export
to PDF, burn to disc or FTP file to printers, who then use the PDF
file(s) and 'type-setting' software to make the printing plates....
--
Wikipedia: the Internet equivalent of
Hyde Park and 'speakers corner'...

Jerry wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Jerry wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
snip
The point is I need water at 60C to have baths the way I want to
have baths.
You do not *need* water at 60C,
That is a blatant misrepresentation of what I said above.


You wish...


Are you mentally retarded?

Does the sentence

"Jerry is a retard"

equal the sentence

"Jerry is a retard with a small dick as well"
?

Jerry wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
snip
Not many printers will print from PDF.
snip


Tell that to the magazine editors I know, design on Quark, export
to PDF, burn to disc or FTP file to printers, who then use the PDF
file(s) and 'type-setting' software to make the printing plates....
How odd. My wife, who is a professional graphics artist who has worked
on many major accounts, always sends them the quark files because the
color renditions are inadequate: PDF's are only used to proof for the
customers perusal..

So, do I believe a professional graphics artist, of many years
experience, or a retarded ****wit troll who appears to be either
dennis@home or Steve Firth in a new moniker.

Plonk.

The Natural Philosopher coughed up some electrons that declared:

Jerry wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
snip
Not many printers will print from PDF.
snip


Tell that to the magazine editors I know, design on Quark, export
to PDF, burn to disc or FTP file to printers, who then use the PDF
file(s) and 'type-setting' software to make the printing plates....
How odd. My wife, who is a professional graphics artist who has worked
on many major accounts, always sends them the quark files because the
color renditions are inadequate: PDF's are only used to proof for the
customers perusal..

Bring back PostScript I say...

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:11:13 +0100, stuart noble wrote:

The traditional test of dipping your elbow in the water was reliable
and needed no high tech equipment.

Now we have electronic elbows to save us bending down

Or plugs or bath toys that change colour based on the water temperature.

It appears that these days parents are leaving the teaching of "life
skills" to anyone but themselves. But no one else is doing it either so
young adults just haven't been taught all manner of things as they grew up
as a matter of course. And being young adults they think they know it
all...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 22:10:10 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

It appears that these days parents are leaving the teaching of "life
skills" to anyone but themselves. But no one else is doing it either so
young adults just haven't been taught all manner of things as they grew up
as a matter of course. And being young adults they think they know it
all...

Hear hear.

It's probably all part of the 'blame culture' where somebody else is
responsible when your in/actions go wrong.
This is of course exacerbated by current Government ideas that they
should take control of everything in our lives. Hence all this 'Part
(whatever)' legislation, which really has nothing at all to do with
the Government, but is attractive to those who can't think for
themselves.

--
Frank Erskine

On 17 Aug, 18:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Not many printers will print from PDF.

Hmm. Now what format do the offset printers I use prefer? Why, that
would be pdf.

Ian

On 17 Aug, 21:15, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

How odd. My wife, who is a professional graphics artist who has worked
on many major accounts, always sends them the quark files because the
color renditions are inadequate: PDF's are only used to proof for the
customers perusal..

Well obviously if you are sending pdfs to a printer you make sure that
you used properly colour management software to create them. Everyone
knows that, surely?

Ian

On 17/08/2008 18:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Not many printers will print from PDF.

Or if they do they require a limited subset such as PDF/X-1a with CMYK
colours and no gradations.

Frank Erskine wrote:

It's probably all part of the 'blame culture' where somebody else is
responsible when your in/actions go wrong.
This is of course exacerbated by current Government ideas that they
should take control of everything in our lives. Hence all this 'Part
(whatever)' legislation, which really has nothing at all to do with
the Government, but is attractive to those who can't think for
themselves.

And how long before someone tries to introduce a 'Part (whatever)' for
parenting - nobody allowed to introduce children into the world unless they
submit an application form and fee to the Birthing Control Officer for
approval or enrol in a competent person scheme.

--
Mike Clarke

"Mike Clarke" wrote in message
et...
Frank Erskine wrote:

It's probably all part of the 'blame culture' where somebody else is
responsible when your in/actions go wrong.
This is of course exacerbated by current Government ideas that they
should take control of everything in our lives. Hence all this 'Part
(whatever)' legislation, which really has nothing at all to do with
the Government, but is attractive to those who can't think for
themselves.

And how long before someone tries to introduce a 'Part (whatever)' for
parenting - nobody allowed to introduce children into the world unless
they
submit an application form and fee to the Birthing Control Officer for
approval or enrol in a competent person scheme.

Probably do more good than all the others. Lack of competence in parenting
feeds many ills, perhaps all the important ones?


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Mike Clarke" wrote in message
et...
Frank Erskine wrote:

It's probably all part of the 'blame culture' where somebody else is
responsible when your in/actions go wrong.
This is of course exacerbated by current Government ideas that they
should take control of everything in our lives. Hence all this 'Part
(whatever)' legislation, which really has nothing at all to do with
the Government, but is attractive to those who can't think for
themselves.

And how long before someone tries to introduce a 'Part (whatever)' for
parenting - nobody allowed to introduce children into the world unless
they
submit an application form and fee to the Birthing Control Officer for
approval or enrol in a competent person scheme.

That would be a *good* idea!

--
Mike Clarke

dennis@home coughed up some electrons that declared:


And how long before someone tries to introduce a 'Part (whatever)' for
parenting - nobody allowed to introduce children into the world unless
they
submit an application form and fee to the Birthing Control Officer for
approval or enrol in a competent person scheme.

That would be a *good* idea!

Will he be there at 1st fix?

Bob Mannix wrote:
"Mike Clarke" wrote in message
et...
Frank Erskine wrote:

It's probably all part of the 'blame culture' where somebody else is
responsible when your in/actions go wrong.
This is of course exacerbated by current Government ideas that they
should take control of everything in our lives. Hence all this 'Part
(whatever)' legislation, which really has nothing at all to do with
the Government, but is attractive to those who can't think for
themselves.
And how long before someone tries to introduce a 'Part (whatever)' for
parenting - nobody allowed to introduce children into the world unless
they
submit an application form and fee to the Birthing Control Officer for
approval or enrol in a competent person scheme.

Probably do more good than all the others. Lack of competence in parenting
feeds many ills, perhaps all the important ones?



Not helped by the government view that work is good and child rearing
isn't important. You don't inherit the mess for a few years of course,
by which time it's somebody else's problem.

stuart noble wrote:

Not helped by the government view that work is good and child rearing
isn't important. You don't inherit the mess for a few years of course,
by which time it's somebody else's problem.

But it's excellent for Government statistics. Both parents work and farm
offspring out to a childminder results in 3 people classed as employed and
paying tax. One parent works, other stays at home to bring up the offspring
results in only one person employed and paying tax and Government paying
unemployment benefit to people who might otherwise have been employed as
childminders.

Now if Government really cared about family values they'd pay a childminding
allowance to people where one parent looked after their own children full
time instead of going out to work.

--
Mike Clarke

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Not many printers will print from PDF.

All our large Xerox printers will print postscript directly.

In article ,
Tim S writes:
Bring back PostScript I say...

You'll find it wrapped up inside very many PDF files.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Mike Clarke wrote:
stuart noble wrote:

Not helped by the government view that work is good and child rearing
isn't important. You don't inherit the mess for a few years of course,
by which time it's somebody else's problem.

But it's excellent for Government statistics. Both parents work and farm
offspring out to a childminder results in 3 people classed as employed and
paying tax. One parent works, other stays at home to bring up the offspring
results in only one person employed and paying tax and Government paying
unemployment benefit to people who might otherwise have been employed as
childminders.

Well, someone has to pay for the next Olympics, and we know how much
we're all looking forward to that!

Now if Government really cared about family values they'd pay a childminding
allowance to people where one parent looked after their own children full
time instead of going out to work.

Cheaper in the long run but, as ever, we're only thinking short term.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:34:51 +0100, Mike Clarke wrote:

And how long before someone tries to introduce a 'Part (whatever)' for
parenting - nobody allowed to introduce children into the world unless
they submit an application form and fee to the Birthing Control Officer
for approval or enrol in a competent person scheme.

When Cameron gets in?

"Conservative leader David Cameron has said he will be as radical a social
reformer as Margaret Thatcher was an economic reformer."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7566979.stm

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 00:30:30 +0100 Frank Erskine wrote :
This is of course exacerbated by current Government ideas that they
should take control of everything in our lives.

Yes, but this is in response the media and elsewhere every time
something happens saying that the government should do something and
its unwillingness - because it would be pilloried in the press - to
say that if people choose to do x then it's their own fault.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Mike Clarke wrote:


And how long before someone tries to introduce a 'Part (whatever)' for
parenting - nobody allowed to introduce children into the world
unless they submit an application form and fee to the Birthing
Control Officer for approval or enrol in a competent person scheme.

Now you're talking! That *would* be useful. I'm all in favour of people
having to have a licence before they're allowed to procreate. Enforcing it
may be a little difficult though! g
--
Cheers,
Roger
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