OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

The media seen determined to talk up a recession. Heard a Radio 4 show
yesterday about 'how the cwedit cwunch affects you'.

First half a dozen calls were from people who's business's were doing fine,
so the presenter said "now lets hear from people who have been badly
affected" and the rest of the show was doom & gloom.

The remit of the programme was obviously to show how bad things were and the
callers were selected to reflect that view. Most of the media follow this
trend.

So, just wondered, I know there are quite a few self employed chaps on the
group, how is the cwedit cwunch affecting you?

Thankfully it doesn't seem to be affecting me at all, quite the opposite,
but thats possibly because of my niche market in smaller jobs.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:20:48 GMT
"The Medway Handyman" wrote:

The media seen determined to talk up a recession. Heard a Radio 4 show
yesterday about 'how the cwedit cwunch affects you'.

First half a dozen calls were from people who's business's were doing fine,
so the presenter said "now lets hear from people who have been badly
affected" and the rest of the show was doom & gloom.

The remit of the programme was obviously to show how bad things were and the
callers were selected to reflect that view. Most of the media follow this
trend.

So, just wondered, I know there are quite a few self employed chaps on the
group, how is the cwedit cwunch affecting you?

Thankfully it doesn't seem to be affecting me at all, quite the opposite,
but thats possibly because of my niche market in smaller jobs.



Just wait until the bodgers, sorry 'tradesmen' from the big building
companies who lay them off start up in competition. They'll take all
their cut-quality bodge-it methods and cheap materials and under cut
you.

Mind you the marginally-better-off will be commissioning a lot of
extensions and renovations rather than just move.

R.

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
The media seen determined to talk up a recession. Heard a Radio 4 show
yesterday about 'how the cwedit cwunch affects you'.

First half a dozen calls were from people who's business's were doing
fine, so the presenter said "now lets hear from people who have been badly
affected" and the rest of the show was doom & gloom.

The remit of the programme was obviously to show how bad things were and
the callers were selected to reflect that view. Most of the media follow
this trend.

So, just wondered, I know there are quite a few self employed chaps on the
group, how is the cwedit cwunch affecting you?

Thankfully it doesn't seem to be affecting me at all, quite the opposite,
but thats possibly because of my niche market in smaller jobs.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


I think the media are worsening the situation in quite a big way.
Our company employed about 90 tradesmen on a self-employed basis 3 months
ago, the media start blabbing about the credit crunch and a few of the
larger companies we are contracted to decide overnight to almost stop any
forward building works and 'ask' us and other contractors to take a 10% or
more cut to our contracted price to enable them to continue to offer buyers
a reasonable price. This will apply to any new contracts also.
It also seems that quite a few of these large companies have also used the
'credit crunch' as an excuse to trim down those that they employ directly
and make quite a few redundancies.

As a large percentage of our work is with these companies, it has meant that
we have had to lay off quite a few of our lads and the number is now down
below 50. We have been in this situation before and are confident that we
will weather it.

The smaller builders have mostly carried on as normal - pricing is a bit
more competitive as expected but they don't seem to be panicking and have
carried on almost as normal for the time of year.
We have started pricing - and winning - contracts for the smaller builders
to keep the lads going but a good percentage of those that we had to let go
recently have found other work and are doing fine, albeit at a slight
reduction in rates but nothing that can't be remedied by working a couple of
hours extra each week.

There seems to be plenty of work out there if you don't mind looking around
for it.

Franko.

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

In article ,
TheOldFellow wrote:
Mind you the marginally-better-off will be commissioning a lot of
extensions and renovations rather than just move.

I'm not so sure - the excessive house prices meant it was often cheaper to
extend than move. If house prices go back to sensible levels this may not
still be the case. Round here the present fad is basement conversions -
which cost as much as a brand new house in some areas...

--
*Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
TheOldFellow wrote:
Mind you the marginally-better-off will be commissioning a lot of
extensions and renovations rather than just move.

I'm not so sure - the excessive house prices meant it was often cheaper to
extend than move. If house prices go back to sensible levels this may not
still be the case. Round here the present fad is basement conversions -
which cost as much as a brand new house in some areas...

--
*Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The proprietor of a music shop that I do work for, described it to me the
other day, as "a self-fulfilling prophesy". He reckons that his sales have
gone down the toilet, although his PA rentals are fine. He told me that he
was talking to one of the village builders, who told him that he had been
planning to purchase two new vans this summer. He also said that he had
work, money in the bank, and that his books were about where he had expected
them to be. However, he wasn't now going to buy the vans because of fears
over the cc. So that's a garage somewhere that's lost a sale of two
commercial vehicles - not because the guy hasn't got the money, or the work
to support them, but simply because the situation has been talked up to
where he doesn't have the confidence to buy them.

I have been self employed for many years, and I have certainly never known
the work level to be as poor as it is at the moment. Like Dave says about
extending rather than changing your house, you would have expected that
punters would have been having more kit repaired than buying new, but they
are actually doing neither. I have probably a fifth of the repair income
that I had just a year ago, and a couple of other shops that I do work for,
are in despair over it. I have to say that it has picked up a little this
week, which I expect is due to people returning from the first wave of
summer holidays.

I think that there are several factors that have contributed to the current
situation. First, Bush and Blair's "war on terror", the major effect of
which has been to seriously destabilse the middle east, which has partly led
to the debilitating rises in vehicle fuel and other energy costs, which has
had knock-on effects on the prices of just about everything, and has caused
consumers to think twice about any 'unnecessary' expenditure, whether
they've got the money or not. Next, it doesn't help with Mervyn Wossisname
from the Bank of England and his counterpart in the US, going on TV all the
time spouting doom gloom and despondency about world recession. It then
doesn't help that the media pick up on this, and hype it up into 'important'
headlines. It was unfortunate that Northern Rock relied on world money
markets tied heavily to the US lenders. It wasn't really their fault that
they got their fingers burnt - it could have been virtually any of them -
but again, media hype caused a serious problem which has served only to
further weaken consumer confidence.

At the moment, we have a weak PM who is a very poor performer in terms of
interfacing with the public and addressing their concerns. I didn't like
Blair, and I think that his policies have a lot to do with the situation we
find ourselves in at the moment, but say what you like about him, he had the
public face of charisma and charm, and I don't think that public feeling
would be as negative as it is at the moment even given the same underlying
conditions, if he were still the boss ...

We also currently have a poor and inept chancellor. Add to this the general
disarray that the government finds itself in, and it's no wonder that
consumer confidence and spending is low. I have a memory long enough to draw
parallels with the pre-Maggie days, and I fear that we are not going to see
much in the way of recovery until we have a change of government. I know a
number of Maggie's early policies were harsh and unpopular, but at the end
of the day, she did what was necessary to dig the country out of the
financial hole that it had gotten itself into, and I have a feeling that we
just might find history repeating itself over the next few years ...

Rant over ! Time to do some work. Oh yes, forgot, done it all already this
week .... d;~}

Arfa

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

Arfa Daily wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
TheOldFellow wrote:
Mind you the marginally-better-off will be commissioning a lot of
extensions and renovations rather than just move.
I'm not so sure - the excessive house prices meant it was often cheaper to
extend than move. If house prices go back to sensible levels this may not
still be the case. Round here the present fad is basement conversions -
which cost as much as a brand new house in some areas...

--
*Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The proprietor of a music shop that I do work for, described it to me the
other day, as "a self-fulfilling prophesy". He reckons that his sales have
gone down the toilet, although his PA rentals are fine. He told me that he
was talking to one of the village builders, who told him that he had been
planning to purchase two new vans this summer. He also said that he had
work, money in the bank, and that his books were about where he had expected
them to be. However, he wasn't now going to buy the vans because of fears
over the cc. So that's a garage somewhere that's lost a sale of two
commercial vehicles - not because the guy hasn't got the money, or the work
to support them, but simply because the situation has been talked up to
where he doesn't have the confidence to buy them.

I have been self employed for many years, and I have certainly never known
the work level to be as poor as it is at the moment. Like Dave says about
extending rather than changing your house, you would have expected that
punters would have been having more kit repaired than buying new, but they
are actually doing neither. I have probably a fifth of the repair income
that I had just a year ago, and a couple of other shops that I do work for,
are in despair over it. I have to say that it has picked up a little this
week, which I expect is due to people returning from the first wave of
summer holidays.

I think that there are several factors that have contributed to the current
situation. First, Bush and Blair's "war on terror", the major effect of
which has been to seriously destabilse the middle east, which has partly led
to the debilitating rises in vehicle fuel and other energy costs, which has
had knock-on effects on the prices of just about everything, and has caused
consumers to think twice about any 'unnecessary' expenditure, whether
they've got the money or not. Next, it doesn't help with Mervyn Wossisname
from the Bank of England and his counterpart in the US, going on TV all the
time spouting doom gloom and despondency about world recession. It then
doesn't help that the media pick up on this, and hype it up into 'important'
headlines. It was unfortunate that Northern Rock relied on world money
markets tied heavily to the US lenders. It wasn't really their fault that
they got their fingers burnt - it could have been virtually any of them -
but again, media hype caused a serious problem which has served only to
further weaken consumer confidence.

At the moment, we have a weak PM who is a very poor performer in terms of
interfacing with the public and addressing their concerns. I didn't like
Blair, and I think that his policies have a lot to do with the situation we
find ourselves in at the moment, but say what you like about him, he had the
public face of charisma and charm, and I don't think that public feeling
would be as negative as it is at the moment even given the same underlying
conditions, if he were still the boss ...

We also currently have a poor and inept chancellor. Add to this the general
disarray that the government finds itself in, and it's no wonder that
consumer confidence and spending is low. I have a memory long enough to draw
parallels with the pre-Maggie days, and I fear that we are not going to see
much in the way of recovery until we have a change of government. I know a
number of Maggie's early policies were harsh and unpopular, but at the end
of the day, she did what was necessary to dig the country out of the
financial hole that it had gotten itself into, and I have a feeling that we
just might find history repeating itself over the next few years ...

Rant over ! Time to do some work. Oh yes, forgot, done it all already this
week .... d;~}

Arfa



Boom bust. The nature of the global economy. Nothing to do with
governments any more I suspect, which is probably a good thing on balance.
With capital gains tax on housing, we might not be quite so far up the
creek in that area. The market could adjust more easily if the playing
field was level to start with.

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

stuart noble wrote:

Boom bust. The nature of the global economy. Nothing to do with
governments any more I suspect, which is probably a good thing on balance.
With capital gains tax on housing, we might not be quite so far up the
creek in that area. The market could adjust more easily if the playing
field was level to start with.


Wrong wrong and wrong.

This particular crisis has been brewing well over three years, as the
rising graphs of chinese consumption, and US and European debt and
balance of payments were set to cross the much less rapidly rising
levels of commodity consumption.


A government of responsibility would have been reining in expenditure
and reducing its debt exposure hard.

Capital gains tax on house transactions merely makes if disadvantageous
to move homes, thats all.

This totally immobilizing the house-owning population: It would kill the
house market stone dead, and force everyone into rental.

As usual, the solution actually worsens the problem.

Which is purely down to a small island with an expanding population and
exapnding epectations.

Anyone who wants a £30,000 three bedroom house can get one in the USA
easily enough right now..

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


Anyone who wants a £30,000 three bedroom house can get one in the USA
easily enough right now..



With a green card?
I think you will find that people that want £30000 houses don't have the
skills for a green card.

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
TheOldFellow wrote:
Mind you the marginally-better-off will be commissioning a lot of
extensions and renovations rather than just move.
I'm not so sure - the excessive house prices meant it was often cheaper
to
extend than move. If house prices go back to sensible levels this may
not
still be the case. Round here the present fad is basement conversions -
which cost as much as a brand new house in some areas...

--
*Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The proprietor of a music shop that I do work for, described it to me the
other day, as "a self-fulfilling prophesy". He reckons that his sales
have gone down the toilet, although his PA rentals are fine. He told me
that he was talking to one of the village builders, who told him that he
had been planning to purchase two new vans this summer. He also said that
he had work, money in the bank, and that his books were about where he
had expected them to be. However, he wasn't now going to buy the vans
because of fears over the cc. So that's a garage somewhere that's lost a
sale of two commercial vehicles - not because the guy hasn't got the
money, or the work to support them, but simply because the situation has
been talked up to where he doesn't have the confidence to buy them.

I have been self employed for many years, and I have certainly never
known the work level to be as poor as it is at the moment. Like Dave says
about extending rather than changing your house, you would have expected
that punters would have been having more kit repaired than buying new,
but they are actually doing neither. I have probably a fifth of the
repair income that I had just a year ago, and a couple of other shops
that I do work for, are in despair over it. I have to say that it has
picked up a little this week, which I expect is due to people returning
from the first wave of summer holidays.

I think that there are several factors that have contributed to the
current situation. First, Bush and Blair's "war on terror", the major
effect of which has been to seriously destabilse the middle east, which
has partly led to the debilitating rises in vehicle fuel and other energy
costs, which has had knock-on effects on the prices of just about
everything, and has caused consumers to think twice about any
'unnecessary' expenditure, whether they've got the money or not. Next, it
doesn't help with Mervyn Wossisname from the Bank of England and his
counterpart in the US, going on TV all the time spouting doom gloom and
despondency about world recession. It then doesn't help that the media
pick up on this, and hype it up into 'important' headlines. It was
unfortunate that Northern Rock relied on world money markets tied heavily
to the US lenders. It wasn't really their fault that they got their
fingers burnt - it could have been virtually any of them - but again,
media hype caused a serious problem which has served only to further
weaken consumer confidence.

At the moment, we have a weak PM who is a very poor performer in terms of
interfacing with the public and addressing their concerns. I didn't like
Blair, and I think that his policies have a lot to do with the situation
we find ourselves in at the moment, but say what you like about him, he
had the public face of charisma and charm, and I don't think that public
feeling would be as negative as it is at the moment even given the same
underlying conditions, if he were still the boss ...

We also currently have a poor and inept chancellor. Add to this the
general disarray that the government finds itself in, and it's no wonder
that consumer confidence and spending is low. I have a memory long enough
to draw parallels with the pre-Maggie days, and I fear that we are not
going to see much in the way of recovery until we have a change of
government. I know a number of Maggie's early policies were harsh and
unpopular, but at the end of the day, she did what was necessary to dig
the country out of the financial hole that it had gotten itself into, and
I have a feeling that we just might find history repeating itself over
the next few years ...

Rant over ! Time to do some work. Oh yes, forgot, done it all already
this week .... d;~}

Arfa

Boom bust. The nature of the global economy. Nothing to do with
governments any more I suspect, which is probably a good thing on balance.
With capital gains tax on housing, we might not be quite so far up the
creek in that area. The market could adjust more easily if the playing
field was level to start with.


A slightly 'simplistic' view of a complex set of circumstances perhaps, as
GB has found out to his cost after boldly declaring that he had fixed boom
and bust single handedly, forever ...

Arfa

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 09:40:33 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:



The proprietor of a music shop that I do work for, described it to me the
other day, as "a self-fulfilling prophesy". He reckons that his sales have
gone down the toilet, although his PA rentals are fine. He told me that he
was talking to one of the village builders, who told him that he had been
planning to purchase two new vans this summer. He also said that he had
work, money in the bank, and that his books were about where he had expected
them to be. However, he wasn't now going to buy the vans because of fears
over the cc. So that's a garage somewhere that's lost a sale of two
commercial vehicles - not because the guy hasn't got the money, or the work
to support them, but simply because the situation has been talked up to
where he doesn't have the confidence to buy them.

We have a fairly prominent hand car wash place that always has cars
queuing round the block. Of late you just see the workers sitting
about doing nothing.

The car park of some local shops is normally packed but look in there
now and you would think the shops were closed.

Whatever it is, I think it's gonna get worse before it gets better ..
:-(

All the best ..

T i m

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 11:40:28 +0100
"Arfa Daily" wrote:


"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
TheOldFellow wrote:
snip

Boom bust. The nature of the global economy. Nothing to do with
governments any more I suspect, which is probably a good thing on balance.
With capital gains tax on housing, we might not be quite so far up the
creek in that area. The market could adjust more easily if the playing
field was level to start with.


A slightly 'simplistic' view of a complex set of circumstances perhaps, as
GB has found out to his cost after boldly declaring that he had fixed boom
and bust single handedly, forever ...

Arfa



Of course you don't mean GB, you mean GoreDoom Brown, during his tenure
as Official Thief, while he was telling Toenails Blurr how much better
he could run the country.

By the way, the solution is obvious: get George W Ambush to deny that
the US has any plans to invade China this month.

R.

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 11:35:04 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

I think you will find that people that want £30000 houses don't have the
skills for a green card.

In rural USA, £30,000 buys more than you'd think. I'd certainly be
happy with it if I were a solo IT geek planning to live there for a
couple of years and then return,

--
Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

Capital gains tax on house transactions merely makes if disadvantageous
to move homes, thats all.

This totally immobilizing the house-owning population: It would kill the
house market stone dead, and force everyone into rental.




If a "market" can be killed by removing the tax breaks, then it ain't
much of a market, and probably deserves to die.

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

In article , The Medway
Handyman scribeth thus
The media seen determined to talk up a recession. Heard a Radio 4 show
yesterday about 'how the cwedit cwunch affects you'.

First half a dozen calls were from people who's business's were doing fine,
so the presenter said "now lets hear from people who have been badly
affected" and the rest of the show was doom & gloom.

The remit of the programme was obviously to show how bad things were and the
callers were selected to reflect that view. Most of the media follow this
trend.

So, just wondered, I know there are quite a few self employed chaps on the
group, how is the cwedit cwunch affecting you?

Thankfully it doesn't seem to be affecting me at all, quite the opposite,
but thats possibly because of my niche market in smaller jobs.



We have heard that its hitting some firms, those in building and
construction work and some Taxi operators are finding their bookings
rate down a bit..

What's really worrying is that my bro in law a bricklayer isn't booked
up for more then a week or so at a time recently whereas for as long as
I can remember getting him to do anything was a 2 year wait!..

And thats in a rather affluent bit of Essex;!...
--
Tony Sayer

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
I know a number of Maggie's early policies were harsh and unpopular,
but at the end of the day, she did what was necessary to dig the
country out of the financial hole that it had gotten itself into, and I
have a feeling that we just might find history repeating itself over
the next few years ...

Had her policies not closed the coal mines and subsequently squandered our
oil and gas reserves in the quest for 'jam now' and to reward her
paymasters we'd not have to be buying in so much energy from other
counties.

--
*I'm not your type. I'm not inflatable.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

In article ,
T i m wrote:
We have a fairly prominent hand car wash place that always has cars
queuing round the block. Of late you just see the workers sitting
about doing nothing.

The car park of some local shops is normally packed but look in there
now and you would think the shops were closed.

Whatever it is, I think it's gonna get worse before it gets better ..
:-(

I know it's the holiday season, but I drove across London yesterday
evening and was amazed by the lack of traffic. It's a journey I do quite
often, and it took about 75% of the usual time.

--
*Why don't you ever see the headline "Psychic Wins Lottery"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
I know a number of Maggie's early policies were harsh and unpopular,
but at the end of the day, she did what was necessary to dig the
country out of the financial hole that it had gotten itself into, and I
have a feeling that we just might find history repeating itself over
the next few years ...

Had her policies not closed the coal mines and subsequently squandered our
oil and gas reserves in the quest for 'jam now' and to reward her
paymasters we'd not have to be buying in so much energy from other
counties.


Agree. I knew someone working for the electricity industry at the time it
was privatised. From my understanding the whole point of coal vs gas fired
power stations was that coal and nuclear provide the base load generation
capacity and gas is there to satisfy peak demand (especially unpredicted)
and provide system stability.

The way it was sold off made it economically attractive to burn gas flat out
which is plain dumb. Why? What's coal good for: not a lot apart from
generation and domestic coal fires. Where is coal going to provide least
pollution: in a big central burner where the flue gasses can be scrubbed
efficiently. IMHO we should be burning coal as a priority to satisfy base
demand for electricity. Gas is a far more versatile resource that should be
jealously preserved. Burning both gives rise to CO2, which is a separate
problem.

A bit moot unfortunately, seeing as most of the coal mines are now closed.
Though I do believe that outcome was the fault of the NUM as much as
Thatcher.

The only viable option left at this time is to get on and build some nukes
IMHO. Nothing wrong with being more efficient (Part L and so forth) but I
don't think it's going to buy us out of trouble.

The next most viable option is to lay some extra DC cables to France (I
notice there was an upgrade a while back) and let them build the nukes.

Cheers

Tim

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
We have a fairly prominent hand car wash place that always has cars
queuing round the block. Of late you just see the workers sitting
about doing nothing.

The car park of some local shops is normally packed but look in there
now and you would think the shops were closed.

Whatever it is, I think it's gonna get worse before it gets better ..
:-(

I know it's the holiday season, but I drove across London yesterday
evening and was amazed by the lack of traffic. It's a journey I do quite
often, and it took about 75% of the usual time.


I don't go upto Town any more, so can't comment. The business I'm working
for is currently unaffected: our primary customers are dotted all over the
globe, but of course bad things could still come our way given time.

The house sales market is utterly sh***ed down in Kent. Given up trying to
sell my parent's old bungalow, hence the talk of renovation projects...

Notice builders are rushing to finish off a lot of new builds round here
that have been lying 80% done for the last 6-9 months (why left to fester I
don't know). Getting more cold callers with tenuous offers of labour to
undertake strange work (fertilise and weed my lawn was yesterday's???).

Still see a lot of trades about in their vans, so either they like wasting
diesel, or they are still busy. Quite a lot of traffic driving into Sutton
(London) today.

Cheers

Tim

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
I know a number of Maggie's early policies were harsh and unpopular,
but at the end of the day, she did what was necessary to dig the
country out of the financial hole that it had gotten itself into, and I
have a feeling that we just might find history repeating itself over
the next few years ...

Had her policies not closed the coal mines and subsequently squandered our
oil and gas reserves in the quest for 'jam now' and to reward her
paymasters we'd not have to be buying in so much energy from other
counties.

Beyond London you mean?

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

Tim S wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
I know a number of Maggie's early policies were harsh and unpopular,
but at the end of the day, she did what was necessary to dig the
country out of the financial hole that it had gotten itself into, and I
have a feeling that we just might find history repeating itself over
the next few years ...
Had her policies not closed the coal mines and subsequently squandered our
oil and gas reserves in the quest for 'jam now' and to reward her
paymasters we'd not have to be buying in so much energy from other
counties.


Agree. I knew someone working for the electricity industry at the time it
was privatised. From my understanding the whole point of coal vs gas fired
power stations was that coal and nuclear provide the base load generation
capacity and gas is there to satisfy peak demand (especially unpredicted)
and provide system stability.

The way it was sold off made it economically attractive to burn gas flat out
which is plain dumb. Why? What's coal good for: not a lot apart from
generation and domestic coal fires. Where is coal going to provide least
pollution: in a big central burner where the flue gasses can be scrubbed
efficiently. IMHO we should be burning coal as a priority to satisfy base
demand for electricity. Gas is a far more versatile resource that should be
jealously preserved. Burning both gives rise to CO2, which is a separate
problem.

A bit moot unfortunately, seeing as most of the coal mines are now closed.
Though I do believe that outcome was the fault of the NUM as much as
Thatcher.

The only viable option left at this time is to get on and build some nukes
IMHO. Nothing wrong with being more efficient (Part L and so forth) but I
don't think it's going to buy us out of trouble.


It will in time.

The next most viable option is to lay some extra DC cables to France (I
notice there was an upgrade a while back) and let them build the nukes.


More exepensive than building te nukes.

Cheers

Tim

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 12:46:59 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:


What's really worrying is that my bro in law a bricklayer isn't booked
up for more then a week or so at a time recently whereas for as long as
I can remember getting him to do anything was a 2 year wait!..


Yup, similar with a carpenter / kitchen fitter mate of mine who's
currently sorting out his own house, how much worse can it get! :-(

Another builder mate is really bo**oxed as his nest_egg place in
Florida that he hoped was going to rent out to pay for itself is
currently costing him a fortune a month .. and places all around his
have been up for sale for ages at discount prices and still not
selling. :-(

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. One good thing though. From some of my motorcycle connections in
the States it looks like quite a few are now doing something about
their fuel use at last and moving from gas guzzling cars to more
economical cars / motorbikes.

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:23:34 +0100 Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
I know it's the holiday season, but I drove across London yesterday
evening and was amazed by the lack of traffic. It's a journey I do
quite often, and it took about 75% of the usual time.

It's 24 years since I last drove to work, but even then you really
noticed the difference even in half term weeks. Somewhere there's
probably a formula that confirms that above a certain point small
increases in traffic volume have a disproportionate effect on speed.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

Anyone who wants a £30,000 three bedroom house can get one in the USA
easily enough right now..

With a Guns"R"Us store on the corner, no doubt.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon writes:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

Anyone who wants a £30,000 three bedroom house can get one in the USA
easily enough right now..

With a Guns"R"Us store on the corner, no doubt.

When I went out there some years back, I wanted a part
for my bicycle which had become hard to buy in the UK.
There was a giant "3 Sports" shop in the mall. Naively
thinking one of these three sports would probably be
cycling, I wandered in. That was an eye-opener. The
three sports were shooting at things with pistols,
shooting at things with rifles, and shooting at things
with sub-machine guns.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
I know a number of Maggie's early policies were harsh and unpopular,
but at the end of the day, she did what was necessary to dig the
country out of the financial hole that it had gotten itself into, and I
have a feeling that we just might find history repeating itself over
the next few years ...

Had her policies not closed the coal mines and subsequently squandered our
oil and gas reserves in the quest for 'jam now' and to reward her
paymasters we'd not have to be buying in so much energy from other
counties.


Well the coal's still there in the ground it hasn't gone away but aren't
we suppose to not use it for all the carbon it produces?.

Well what would we have done with the gas other than not used it?....
--
Tony Sayer

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember tony sayer
saying something like:

Well the coal's still there in the ground it hasn't gone away but aren't
we suppose to not use it for all the carbon it produces?.

Trouble is, many of the mines are now flooded and collapsed and can't be
re-opened. Some might, but most are lost as I understand it. Apparently
it's really dodgy to try to re-open a flooded mine that's been abandoned
for years.

This is just speculation, but...
New shafts would have to be sunk in the known rich coalfields and they'd
be continually at risk of catastrophic flooding from old workings that
are full of water, because of necessity they'd be close to the old ones.
I suppose, if it was really desperately necessary, a method of doing it
relatively safely might be devised, and I'm sure there will be someone
here with greater experience of minin' 'n stuff.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember (Andrew
Gabriel) saying something like:

With a Guns"R"Us store on the corner, no doubt.

When I went out there some years back, I wanted a part
for my bicycle which had become hard to buy in the UK.
There was a giant "3 Sports" shop in the mall. Naively
thinking one of these three sports would probably be
cycling, I wandered in. That was an eye-opener. The
three sports were shooting at things with pistols,
shooting at things with rifles, and shooting at things
with sub-machine guns.

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/

They really love their 2nd Amendment, don't they? To be fair though,
there's a helluva lot of Americans who don't like it at all.

A giant playground ruined.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon writes:

Trouble is, many of the mines are now flooded and collapsed and can't be
re-opened. Some might, but most are lost as I understand it. Apparently
it's really dodgy to try to re-open a flooded mine that's been abandoned
for years.

This is just speculation, but...
New shafts would have to be sunk in the known rich coalfields and they'd
be continually at risk of catastrophic flooding from old workings that
are full of water, because of necessity they'd be close to the old ones.
I suppose, if it was really desperately necessary, a method of doing it
relatively safely might be devised, and I'm sure there will be someone
here with greater experience of minin' 'n stuff.

Another problem - I just can't see today's young workers being
the slightest bit interested in going down a mine. Still, there
would probably be no shortage of cheap labour willing to come
over here and do it instead.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
Well the coal's still there in the ground it hasn't gone away but aren't
we suppose to not use it for all the carbon it produces?.

Trouble is, many of the mines are now flooded and collapsed and can't be
re-opened. Some might, but most are lost as I understand it. Apparently
it's really dodgy to try to re-open a flooded mine that's been abandoned
for years.

One of the many points Scargill made - not that the press ever took any
notice of his non union side. He reckoned that so called uneconomic mines
which still had access to large reserves should have been maintained even
although not actually being worked.

--
*Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his animal friends

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 12:46:59 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:


What's really worrying is that my bro in law a bricklayer isn't booked
up for more then a week or so at a time recently whereas for as long as
I can remember getting him to do anything was a 2 year wait!..


Yup, similar with a carpenter / kitchen fitter mate of mine who's
currently sorting out his own house, how much worse can it get! :-(

Another builder mate is really bo**oxed as his nest_egg place in
Florida that he hoped was going to rent out to pay for itself is
currently costing him a fortune a month .. and places all around his
have been up for sale for ages at discount prices and still not
selling. :-(

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. One good thing though. From some of my motorcycle connections in
the States it looks like quite a few are now doing something about
their fuel use at last and moving from gas guzzling cars to more
economical cars / motorbikes.



I'm not really too surprised about the problems that your friend has with
his Florida property. We've been going there for years, and also considered
buying a place when it was at its peak prior to 9/11. It's very easy to get
carried away with the lifestyle and the fantastic property that you get for
your money. But even then, when we sat down and worked out the *real*
economics of it, it was going to be hard to even cover the costs, let alone
make anything at it. We had a holiday booked just after 9/11, and the place
was like a ghost town. We had a row of seats each on the plane. In my
opinion, it has never really recovered to the level it was. Many businesses
went bust as a result of poor trading conditions, and then many more were
closed out by the two hurricanes in the space of a couple of weeks, which
hit the place a couple of years back. On top of all this, many many holiday
homes were being built, which led to a surplus of rentals being available.
It also makes resale difficult, because with the glut of newly and recently
built models on the market, any model several years old, is going to be a
problem to shift.

I can feel for your mate being in that situation, but I'm mighty glad that
in the end, we didn't go down the same route.

Arfa

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
Well the coal's still there in the ground it hasn't gone away but aren't
we suppose to not use it for all the carbon it produces?.

Trouble is, many of the mines are now flooded and collapsed and can't be
re-opened. Some might, but most are lost as I understand it. Apparently
it's really dodgy to try to re-open a flooded mine that's been abandoned
for years.

One of the many points Scargill made - not that the press ever took any
notice of his non union side. He reckoned that so called uneconomic mines
which still had access to large reserves should have been maintained even
although not actually being worked.

It doesn't matter though, if energy or plastics ever becomes so expensive
that digging coal and using it in this "green" world is needed they can dig
new mines.

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

In article , Andrew Gabriel
scribeth thus
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon writes:

Trouble is, many of the mines are now flooded and collapsed and can't be
re-opened. Some might, but most are lost as I understand it. Apparently
it's really dodgy to try to re-open a flooded mine that's been abandoned
for years.

This is just speculation, but...
New shafts would have to be sunk in the known rich coalfields and they'd
be continually at risk of catastrophic flooding from old workings that
are full of water, because of necessity they'd be close to the old ones.
I suppose, if it was really desperately necessary, a method of doing it
relatively safely might be devised, and I'm sure there will be someone
here with greater experience of minin' 'n stuff.

Another problem - I just can't see today's young workers being
the slightest bit interested in going down a mine. Still, there
would probably be no shortage of cheap labour willing to come
over here and do it instead.


Cheap labour eh?..

Well its cheap labour thats going to be the undoing of the UK if we keep
exporting jobs to countries where they work for much less..

And now we're too bloody lazy to go and dig coal when required ..

So just what are the disaffected yoof going to do other then cushy jobs
and sponge of the state?..
--
Tony Sayer

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 10:14:23 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

In article , Andrew Gabriel
scribeth thus
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon writes:

Trouble is, many of the mines are now flooded and collapsed and can't
be re-opened. Some might, but most are lost as I understand it.
Apparently it's really dodgy to try to re-open a flooded mine that's
been abandoned for years.

This is just speculation, but...
New shafts would have to be sunk in the known rich coalfields and
they'd be continually at risk of catastrophic flooding from old
workings that are full of water, because of necessity they'd be close
to the old ones. I suppose, if it was really desperately necessary, a
method of doing it relatively safely might be devised, and I'm sure
there will be someone here with greater experience of minin' 'n stuff.

Another problem - I just can't see today's young workers being the
slightest bit interested in going down a mine. Still, there would
probably be no shortage of cheap labour willing to come over here and do
it instead.


Cheap labour eh?..

Well its cheap labour thats going to be the undoing of the UK if we keep
exporting jobs to countries where they work for much less..

And now we're too bloody lazy to go and dig coal when required ..

So just what are the disaffected yoof going to do other then cushy jobs
and sponge of the state?..

===================================
We might need a new generation of 'Bevin boys'. If we really are in as
bad a state as we're being led to believe then a national emergency might
justify such measures.

Cic.
--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 01:13:58 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


Another builder mate is really bo**oxed as his nest_egg place in
Florida that he hoped was going to rent out to pay for itself is
currently costing him a fortune a month .. and places all around his
have been up for sale for ages at discount prices and still not
selling. :-(


I'm not really too surprised about the problems that your friend has with
his Florida property. We've been going there for years, and also considered
buying a place when it was at its peak prior to 9/11. It's very easy to get
carried away with the lifestyle and the fantastic property that you get for
your money. But even then, when we sat down and worked out the *real*
economics of it, it was going to be hard to even cover the costs, let alone
make anything at it. We had a holiday booked just after 9/11, and the place
was like a ghost town. We had a row of seats each on the plane. In my
opinion, it has never really recovered to the level it was. Many businesses
went bust as a result of poor trading conditions, and then many more were
closed out by the two hurricanes in the space of a couple of weeks, which
hit the place a couple of years back. On top of all this, many many holiday
homes were being built, which led to a surplus of rentals being available.
It also makes resale difficult, because with the glut of newly and recently
built models on the market, any model several years old, is going to be a
problem to shift.

I can feel for your mate being in that situation, but I'm mighty glad that
in the end, we didn't go down the same route.

Fate eh Arfa.

My mate was saying it could actually bankrupt him, that burden in
Florida and less work (after being booked solid for the last 15
years).

Another mate is a bit of a wheeler-dealer, has a few properties and
keeps telling me that with our house being all paid up we would easily
get a loan / mortgage to go out and buy more places. With the rules
changing as fast as they are these days and the price of energy going
up as fast as it is I'm not sure anything is a certain bet? :-(

All the best ..

T i m

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
scribeth thus
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon writes:
Trouble is, many of the mines are now flooded and collapsed and can't be
re-opened. Some might, but most are lost as I understand it. Apparently
it's really dodgy to try to re-open a flooded mine that's been abandoned
for years.

This is just speculation, but...
New shafts would have to be sunk in the known rich coalfields and they'd
be continually at risk of catastrophic flooding from old workings that
are full of water, because of necessity they'd be close to the old ones.
I suppose, if it was really desperately necessary, a method of doing it
relatively safely might be devised, and I'm sure there will be someone
here with greater experience of minin' 'n stuff.
Another problem - I just can't see today's young workers being
the slightest bit interested in going down a mine. Still, there
would probably be no shortage of cheap labour willing to come
over here and do it instead.


Cheap labour eh?..

Well its cheap labour thats going to be the undoing of the UK if we keep
exporting jobs to countries where they work for much less..

Nothing like an impocversihed country with a fallin exchange rate to
make people go back to work again...


And now we're too bloody lazy to go and dig coal when required ..

So just what are the disaffected yoof going to do other then cushy jobs
and sponge of the state?..

starve.

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 12:01:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


So just what are the disaffected yoof going to do other then cushy jobs
and sponge of the state?..

starve.

Or more crime?

I think we will see more fuel and scrap stolen, even stuff off peoples
allotments.

"Ere, mate looks around wanna buy a cabbage, no questions nudge
nudge .. "

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. I saw on the telly last night another pot house busted. All 5
rooms very professionally rigged up for growing the stuff and they
suggested that would earn them 25K / week?

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
scribeth thus
Another problem - I just can't see today's young workers being
the slightest bit interested in going down a mine. Still, there
would probably be no shortage of cheap labour willing to come
over here and do it instead.

Cheap labour eh?..

Well its cheap labour thats going to be the undoing of the UK if we keep
exporting jobs to countries where they work for much less..

Nothing like an impocversihed country with a fallin exchange rate to
make people go back to work again...


And now we're too bloody lazy to go and dig coal when required ..

So just what are the disaffected yoof going to do other then cushy jobs
and sponge of the state?..

starve.

Crime.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

On 8 Aug 2008 16:20:45 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2008-08-08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
I know a number of Maggie's early policies were harsh and unpopular,
but at the end of the day, she did what was necessary to dig the
country out of the financial hole that it had gotten itself into, and I
have a feeling that we just might find history repeating itself over
the next few years ...

Had her policies not closed the coal mines and subsequently squandered our
oil and gas reserves in the quest for 'jam now' and to reward her
paymasters we'd not have to be buying in so much energy from other
counties.

And you fondly imagine that another politician would have done it any
differently?

If Callaghan had remained in power there would have been fewer
coalmines shut and at least 6 nuclear power stations built.

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 10:14:23 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , Andrew Gabriel
scribeth thus
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon writes:

Trouble is, many of the mines are now flooded and collapsed and can't be
re-opened. Some might, but most are lost as I understand it. Apparently
it's really dodgy to try to re-open a flooded mine that's been abandoned
for years.

This is just speculation, but...
New shafts would have to be sunk in the known rich coalfields and they'd
be continually at risk of catastrophic flooding from old workings that
are full of water, because of necessity they'd be close to the old ones.
I suppose, if it was really desperately necessary, a method of doing it
relatively safely might be devised, and I'm sure there will be someone
here with greater experience of minin' 'n stuff.

Another problem - I just can't see today's young workers being
the slightest bit interested in going down a mine. Still, there
would probably be no shortage of cheap labour willing to come
over here and do it instead.


Cheap labour eh?..

Well its cheap labour thats going to be the undoing of the UK if we keep
exporting jobs to countries where they work for much less..

And now we're too bloody lazy to go and dig coal when required ..

So just what are the disaffected yoof going to do other then cushy jobs
and sponge of the state?..

Apply for jobs in the civil service and police.
Oops! That would be sponging off the taxpayer

OT; Cwedit Cwunch?
 

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
The media seen determined to talk up a recession. Heard a Radio 4 show
yesterday about 'how the cwedit cwunch affects you'.
....
So, just wondered, I know there are quite a few self employed chaps on the
group, how is the cwedit cwunch affecting you?..

I won't know if there is any effect until the Autumn; Summer is always very
quiet. However, as I am in the business of supplying cheap ink cartridges, I
am hoping for a growth as people try to save money.

Colin Bignell