Avid readers of this ng will know that I am on the lookout for a cheap
digger but I remain undecided as to the type to buy and could do with
some impartial expert advice on the subject. The more I think about it
the more I think a mini digger will best suit what I have to but I still
have some doubts on various aspects.

I have decided to up my budget to £3000 but that is still very much the
bottom end of the market, particularly for a mini digger.

With a full size digger the choice is really which particular JCB but
there is a bewildering range of mini diggers from a considerable number
of manufacturers so I would like to know which manufacturers have a
reputation for reliability or perhaps more pertinently which
manufacturers to avoid.

I don't suppose the machine will ever be used outside my smallholding
and my neighbours farm but even that might require moving the machine
half a mile so is it realistic to expect a mini digger to travel such a
distance under its own power or do I need to budget for a trailer as
well?

And then there is the question of stability on steep ground. Most mini
diggers seem to have no stabilisers and some of them have a very narrow
track so is a certain minimum track advisable? And if so what?

And finally any particular recommendations.

--
Roger Chapman

In message , Roger
writes
Avid readers of this ng will know that I am on the lookout for a cheap
digger but I remain undecided as to the type to buy and could do with
some impartial expert advice on the subject. The more I think about it
the more I think a mini digger will best suit what I have to but I still
have some doubts on various aspects.

I have decided to up my budget to £3000 but that is still very much the
bottom end of the market, particularly for a mini digger.

I would have offered my JCB 3D but you said distance costs:-)

Anything that old is not going to cheer up any elfin safety person so
you are restricted to own jobs. The ability to move muck 1 ton at a time
may not be an enormous benefit if you do not have the space to manoeuvre
a large machine.

With a full size digger the choice is really which particular JCB but
there is a bewildering range of mini diggers from a considerable number
of manufacturers so I would like to know which manufacturers have a
reputation for reliability or perhaps more pertinently which
manufacturers to avoid.

Can't answer that but you might factor in the value of a 4 in 1 bucket
for levelling/scraping and the forks for any pallet work. I don't think
you get either with a mini.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
Avid readers of this ng will know that I am on the lookout for a cheap
digger but I remain undecided as to the type to buy and could do with
some impartial expert advice on the subject. The more I think about it
the more I think a mini digger will best suit what I have to but I still
have some doubts on various aspects.

I have decided to up my budget to £3000 but that is still very much the
bottom end of the market, particularly for a mini digger.

With a full size digger the choice is really which particular JCB but
there is a bewildering range of mini diggers from a considerable number
of manufacturers so I would like to know which manufacturers have a
reputation for reliability or perhaps more pertinently which
manufacturers to avoid.

I don't suppose the machine will ever be used outside my smallholding
and my neighbours farm but even that might require moving the machine
half a mile so is it realistic to expect a mini digger to travel such a
distance under its own power or do I need to budget for a trailer as
well?

And then there is the question of stability on steep ground. Most mini
diggers seem to have no stabilisers and some of them have a very narrow
track so is a certain minimum track advisable? And if so what?

And finally any particular recommendations.


Roger,

I too am interested in this topic.

I have a couple of comments:

- I recently seriously toyed with the idea of getting an old JCB (one was
going cheap nearby), but decided against it, as the thought of a JCB with
wheels on my muddy fields was a bit of a nightmare. (SWMBO's hysterical
laughter at the suggestion follow by a "oh, you were serious" didn't help).
I decided in the end that if I do get something it will
- be small (not blumming enormous like a JCB)
- have tracks.

- If you're lending the digger out to neighbours, could you expect the
neighbours to sort out the travel arrangements? (And if you're just going
1/2 mile down the road do you really care about having a _decent_ transport
solution?)

Piers

The message
from Tim Lamb contains these words:

I have decided to up my budget to £3000 but that is still very much the
bottom end of the market, particularly for a mini digger.

I would have offered my JCB 3D but you said distance costs:-)

Don't tempt me. IIRC you are somewhere like Shropshire. 150 @£3/mile is
10% of the increased budget gone. (Incidentally I don't understand the
difference between a 3C and a 3D).

Anything that old is not going to cheer up any elfin safety person so
you are restricted to own jobs. The ability to move muck 1 ton at a time
may not be an enormous benefit if you do not have the space to manoeuvre
a large machine.

With a full size digger the choice is really which particular JCB but
there is a bewildering range of mini diggers from a considerable number
of manufacturers so I would like to know which manufacturers have a
reputation for reliability or perhaps more pertinently which
manufacturers to avoid.

Can't answer that but you might factor in the value of a 4 in 1 bucket
for levelling/scraping and the forks for any pallet work. I don't think
you get either with a mini.

I do have access to a Zetor tractor with a bucket on its front lift. No
good for digging and will only shovel loose stuff but much better than
the wheelbarrow and shovel alternative.

Some mini diggers have a dozer blade which presumably is some help
levelling even if they might not have enough weight to shift anything
well compacted.

--
Roger Chapman

The message
from "Piers Finlayson" contains these words:

I too am interested in this topic.

I have a couple of comments:

- I recently seriously toyed with the idea of getting an old JCB (one was
going cheap nearby), but decided against it, as the thought of a JCB with
wheels on my muddy fields was a bit of a nightmare. (SWMBO's hysterical
laughter at the suggestion follow by a "oh, you were serious" didn't help).
I decided in the end that if I do get something it will
- be small (not blumming enormous like a JCB)
- have tracks.

I have also wondered what would happen with something as heavy as a full
size JCB on soft ground. I don't know for sure how much they weigh but
one advert claimed 7 tons which must be at least twice the weight of my
neighbours tractor.

- If you're lending the digger out to neighbours, could you expect the
neighbours to sort out the travel arrangements? (And if you're just going
1/2 mile down the road do you really care about having a _decent_ transport
solution?)

Not thinking about going on the road at all. That was half a mile across
the fields and it would be me doing the driving, not my elderly
neighbour who won't even drive his own tractor. What I am concerned
about is wearing out the tracks unnecessarily and dying of boredom
getting to the other side of his farm and back again. I have only ever
seen mini diggers move at a snails pace. Being retired myself I have
plenty of time to help out but life is too short to spend half a day
travelling half a mile. :-)

--
Roger Chapman

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Piers Finlayson" contains these words:

I too am interested in this topic.

I have a couple of comments:

- I recently seriously toyed with the idea of getting an old JCB (one
was
going cheap nearby), but decided against it, as the thought of a JCB with
wheels on my muddy fields was a bit of a nightmare. (SWMBO's hysterical
laughter at the suggestion follow by a "oh, you were serious" didn't
help).
I decided in the end that if I do get something it will
- be small (not blumming enormous like a JCB)
- have tracks.

I have also wondered what would happen with something as heavy as a full
size JCB on soft ground. I don't know for sure how much they weigh but
one advert claimed 7 tons which must be at least twice the weight of my
neighbours tractor.

- If you're lending the digger out to neighbours, could you expect the
neighbours to sort out the travel arrangements? (And if you're just
going
1/2 mile down the road do you really care about having a _decent_
transport
solution?)

Not thinking about going on the road at all. That was half a mile across
the fields and it would be me doing the driving, not my elderly
neighbour who won't even drive his own tractor. What I am concerned
about is wearing out the tracks unnecessarily and dying of boredom
getting to the other side of his farm and back again. I have only ever
seen mini diggers move at a snails pace. Being retired myself I have
plenty of time to help out but life is too short to spend half a day
travelling half a mile. :-)

You want a Bobcat! See:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CHRa...eature=related

or just type "bobcat youtube" into Google


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Roger wrote:
The message
from Tim Lamb contains these words:

I have decided to up my budget to £3000 but that is still very much the
bottom end of the market, particularly for a mini digger.

I would have offered my JCB 3D but you said distance costs:-)

Don't tempt me. IIRC you are somewhere like Shropshire. 150 @£3/mile is
10% of the increased budget gone. (Incidentally I don't understand the
difference between a 3C and a 3D).

Anything that old is not going to cheer up any elfin safety person so
you are restricted to own jobs. The ability to move muck 1 ton at a time
may not be an enormous benefit if you do not have the space to manoeuvre
a large machine.
With a full size digger the choice is really which particular JCB but
there is a bewildering range of mini diggers from a considerable number
of manufacturers so I would like to know which manufacturers have a
reputation for reliability or perhaps more pertinently which
manufacturers to avoid.

Can't answer that but you might factor in the value of a 4 in 1 bucket
for levelling/scraping and the forks for any pallet work. I don't think
you get either with a mini.

I do have access to a Zetor tractor with a bucket on its front lift. No
good for digging and will only shovel loose stuff but much better than
the wheelbarrow and shovel alternative.

Some mini diggers have a dozer blade which presumably is some help
levelling even if they might not have enough weight to shift anything
well compacted.

Ive done extensive levelling with minis and a 3.5 tonner.

The blade sort of works, but you end up digging the big humps out and
spreading. I.e. none have the tractio to really BULLDOZE.


what a big digger will do that a mini cant is

- go deeper. Ponds are not much use if they are only a few inches deep.
- lift heavier. if pu are diggong rock and masonry it may not come in
pint sized chunks
- pull up bigger Trtee roots work well with a digger, but there is a
size limit.

What a little digger will do that a big one cant is get into small
spaces, and fall over. Its a great way to dig a garden bed over though.

There's just as much o go wrong on a little one as a big one, and it all
costs about the same. Except the tracks. They cost more on the big *******s.

Go for the biggest you can fit.

Roger wrote:
The message
from "Piers Finlayson" contains these words:

I too am interested in this topic.

I have a couple of comments:

- I recently seriously toyed with the idea of getting an old JCB (one was
going cheap nearby), but decided against it, as the thought of a JCB with
wheels on my muddy fields was a bit of a nightmare. (SWMBO's hysterical
laughter at the suggestion follow by a "oh, you were serious" didn't help).
I decided in the end that if I do get something it will
- be small (not blumming enormous like a JCB)
- have tracks.

I have also wondered what would happen with something as heavy as a full
size JCB on soft ground. I don't know for sure how much they weigh but
one advert claimed 7 tons which must be at least twice the weight of my
neighbours tractor.

- If you're lending the digger out to neighbours, could you expect the
neighbours to sort out the travel arrangements? (And if you're just going
1/2 mile down the road do you really care about having a _decent_ transport
solution?)

Not thinking about going on the road at all. That was half a mile across
the fields and it would be me doing the driving, not my elderly
neighbour who won't even drive his own tractor. What I am concerned
about is wearing out the tracks unnecessarily and dying of boredom
getting to the other side of his farm and back again. I have only ever
seen mini diggers move at a snails pace. Being retired myself I have
plenty of time to help out but life is too short to spend half a day
travelling half a mile. :-)

Any tracked digger I have hired moves at a walking pace only. 3mph roughly.

So abut ten minutes to do half a mile.

They aren't designed to tavel. They are designed to dig, oddly enough.

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Piers Finlayson" contains these words:

I too am interested in this topic.

I have a couple of comments:

- I recently seriously toyed with the idea of getting an old JCB (one
was
going cheap nearby), but decided against it, as the thought of a JCB with
wheels on my muddy fields was a bit of a nightmare. (SWMBO's hysterical
laughter at the suggestion follow by a "oh, you were serious" didn't
help).
I decided in the end that if I do get something it will
- be small (not blumming enormous like a JCB)
- have tracks.

I have also wondered what would happen with something as heavy as a full
size JCB on soft ground. I don't know for sure how much they weigh but
one advert claimed 7 tons which must be at least twice the weight of my
neighbours tractor.

- If you're lending the digger out to neighbours, could you expect the
neighbours to sort out the travel arrangements? (And if you're just
going
1/2 mile down the road do you really care about having a _decent_
transport
solution?)

Not thinking about going on the road at all. That was half a mile across
the fields and it would be me doing the driving, not my elderly
neighbour who won't even drive his own tractor. What I am concerned
about is wearing out the tracks unnecessarily and dying of boredom
getting to the other side of his farm and back again. I have only ever
seen mini diggers move at a snails pace. Being retired myself I have
plenty of time to help out but life is too short to spend half a day
travelling half a mile. :-)


A friend of mine a few years ago bought a rusty old JCB (cheaply) from a
seaside town, drove it 90 miles (Oban to Glasgow!) that was hairy!! used it
to dig foundations for an extension, while welding up the cab! sold it and
with the profit bought a mini digger which 20 years or so later he still
uses.

Des

The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

Any tracked digger I have hired moves at a walking pace only. 3mph roughly.

I have seen several at work and none seemed anywhere near that fast.

So abut ten minutes to do half a mile.

They aren't designed to tavel. They are designed to dig, oddly enough.

Hence the query about needing to budget for a trailer as well. I could
use my neighbours tractor to tow it around.

--
Roger Chapman

The message
from "Bob Mannix" contains these words:

You want a Bobcat! See:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CHRa...eature=related

Oh no I don't. I like a quiet life. :-)

I also want to dig trenches.

--
Roger Chapman

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Bob Mannix" contains these words:

You want a Bobcat! See:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CHRa...eature=related

Oh no I don't. I like a quiet life. :-)

I also want to dig trenches.

Oh they do a digger/tracked version - can't do the acrobatics though


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Bob Mannix wrote:
"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Bob Mannix" contains these words:

You want a Bobcat! See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CHRa...eature=related
Oh no I don't. I like a quiet life. :-)

I also want to dig trenches.

Oh they do a digger/tracked version - can't do the acrobatics though

I had a 1.8 ton bobcat excavator a while ago. I think I prefer the
Yanmar version. The bobcat did not have the same lifting power, and the
seat practically crippled me! (had to put a board over it and a cushion
on it in the end.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Roger wrote:

You will need to read my comments in light of the fact that I have only
used a few of the smaller machines personally (and talked to a friend
who ran a groundwork business so had used a few more). I don't claim any
expertise in this area!

With a full size digger the choice is really which particular JCB but
there is a bewildering range of mini diggers from a considerable number
of manufacturers so I would like to know which manufacturers have a
reputation for reliability or perhaps more pertinently which
manufacturers to avoid.

Lots of people seem to like the Yanmar ones - good engines and they seem
to punch well above their weight. Many of the local hire places do those
and Bobcat as the mainstay of the smaller machine lineup.

I don't suppose the machine will ever be used outside my smallholding
and my neighbours farm but even that might require moving the machine
half a mile so is it realistic to expect a mini digger to travel such a
distance under its own power or do I need to budget for a trailer as
well?

well 3 - 4mph is going to be top whack - so 10 - 15 mins each way.

And then there is the question of stability on steep ground. Most mini
diggers seem to have no stabilisers and some of them have a very narrow
track so is a certain minimum track advisable? And if so what?

The smaller machines have a lower centre of gravity as well - however
they can certainly *feel* less stable since it only takes a small hill
to put you at a steep angle. The ones with a dozer blade can be made
significantly more stable by lifting the front of the machine off the
ground on that before digging. (or if digging on a slope, have the blade
at the lower end and using it to level up the machine).

The smallest machines (800kg ish) sometimes have tracks that can be
moved in and out to allow access through narrow gaps, but made wider
when being used for better stability.

And finally any particular recommendations.

Bigger machines tend to be smoother and less jerky to operate. The only
real attraction of the smaller ones is storage and use in a confined
space. I guess if I were keeping one as a pet, a 1.5 to 2 tonne machine
would be a good compromise - big enough to do useful work and still
small enough to drive through most gates (about 1m wide). If you have
the space and don't need the narrow access then something bigger.

The classic JCB backhoe loader layout is probably a very versatile all
round machine, although probably not as flexible in use for pure digging.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Roger wrote:

Avid readers of this ng will know that I am on the lookout for a cheap
digger but I remain undecided as to the type to buy and could do with
some impartial expert advice on the subject. The more I think about it
the more I think a mini digger will best suit what I have to but I still
have some doubts on various aspects.

I have decided to up my budget to £3000 but that is still very much the
bottom end of the market, particularly for a mini digger.

With a full size digger the choice is really which particular JCB but
there is a bewildering range of mini diggers from a considerable number
of manufacturers so I would like to know which manufacturers have a
reputation for reliability or perhaps more pertinently which
manufacturers to avoid.

I don't suppose the machine will ever be used outside my smallholding
and my neighbours farm but even that might require moving the machine
half a mile so is it realistic to expect a mini digger to travel such a
distance under its own power or do I need to budget for a trailer as
well?

And then there is the question of stability on steep ground. Most mini
diggers seem to have no stabilisers and some of them have a very narrow
track so is a certain minimum track advisable? And if so what?

And finally any particular recommendations.


You have not said what you want it for. Surely the type of work to
which you will put the machine will define which machine you need? And
if you don't even say what it is, how can anyone advise you?

The most sensible choice in backhoe loaders is a JCB for easy
availability of spares. Obviously get the newest and best condition
that you can afford. The earlier ones were not especially reliable
even when new. Anything less than 15 years old is a better bet if you
can find one within your price range. Try to get one with a 4-in-1
front bucket as it will doze, load, pick up (clamshell) and act as a
forklift, hence 4-in-1. Incredibly versatile.

The most sensible choice in backhoe loaders is (probably) a Kubota for
sheer reliability. Make sure you get one that hasn't been used in
heavy civil engineering - tunnelling contractors buy them new and use
them until they break, after which they end up on the used market. The
mini-excavator can only do two things, one of them badly. It will dig
well, with the obvious limitations of shallower maximum digging depth,
lower power and smaller bucket size when compared to a JCB. If is
fitted with a dozer blade, it will doze extremely badly. Those blades
are tiny, and there is very little control - you cannot see what you
are doing. But they do add a lot of stability when digging.

The tracks are not made for travelling long distances, more for moving
around in a small, confined area. Tracking long distances will wear
out the tracks very quickly. The tracks are tiny and the bearings are
just too small for arduous travel. Track repairs are expensive - it
is usually cheaper to fit a service exchange pair of tracks than
repair your own but you will get whacked for any damage to the pair
you exchange. Wear and tear is accepted but not damage. So a trailer
is indicated in order to reduce the distance travelled.

As I said before, without any idea of what you want the machine for,
it is impossible to recommend one type over the other. But in
general, farm/smallholding use would suggest a tractor-based JCB, and
work on confined urban sites (or shaft and tunnel digging) would
suggest a mini-excavator.

In another post you asked what was the difference between a JCB 3C and
a 3D. Here's a page that tells you:
http://www.classic-combines.com/jcb.html

I don't recommend you buy from this company as, while the machines may
be within your budget, they sill probably be slightly too small for
your needs. ;-)

"Bob Mannix" wrote:

"Roger" wrote in message
. uk...
The message
from "Bob Mannix" contains these words:

You want a Bobcat! See:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CHRa...eature=related

Oh no I don't. I like a quiet life. :-)

I also want to dig trenches.

Oh they do a digger/tracked version - can't do the acrobatics though


The classic Bobcat is tremendous fun to drive, but it doesn't offer a
digging attachment. The Bobcat tracked loader is also unsuitable for
digging - the view from these loaders is very restricted indeed.

The Bobcat mini-excavators seem OK - I suspect they are made under
contract in the Far East - but the spares availability is nowhere near
as good as the Kubota, which is the King of mini-excavators.

The message
from Bruce contains these words:

You have not said what you want it for. Surely the type of work to
which you will put the machine will define which machine you need? And
if you don't even say what it is, how can anyone advise you?

My original draft included details of what I wanted to do but on reading
it through I came to the conclusion that I had made the case for a mini
digger rather than a full size JCB so I deleted the detail. For some of
the work a JCB would be a better bet or just as good but with 2 of the
jobs lined up - excavations for a ground based heat pump in the narrow
confines of my garden and rescuing a trampled flat drainage ditch among
mature trees a full size JCB would make the job much more difficult.

First job to be done is to reroute a troublesome land drain. This really
needs to be done this year. I need to dig a trench about 80 yards long
and I am now too old to do that by hand.

The most sensible choice in backhoe loaders is a JCB for easy
availability of spares. Obviously get the newest and best condition
that you can afford. The earlier ones were not especially reliable
even when new. Anything less than 15 years old is a better bet if you
can find one within your price range. Try to get one with a 4-in-1
front bucket as it will doze, load, pick up (clamshell) and act as a
forklift, hence 4-in-1. Incredibly versatile.

If I do revert to searching for a JCB I think I would need to up my
budget a bit more to get one less than 15 years old.

The most sensible choice in backhoe loaders is (probably) a Kubota for
sheer reliability. Make sure you get one that hasn't been used in
heavy civil engineering - tunnelling contractors buy them new and use
them until they break, after which they end up on the used market. The
mini-excavator can only do two things, one of them badly. It will dig
well, with the obvious limitations of shallower maximum digging depth,
lower power and smaller bucket size when compared to a JCB. If is
fitted with a dozer blade, it will doze extremely badly. Those blades
are tiny, and there is very little control - you cannot see what you
are doing. But they do add a lot of stability when digging.

The tracks are not made for travelling long distances, more for moving
around in a small, confined area. Tracking long distances will wear
out the tracks very quickly. The tracks are tiny and the bearings are
just too small for arduous travel. Track repairs are expensive - it
is usually cheaper to fit a service exchange pair of tracks than
repair your own but you will get whacked for any damage to the pair
you exchange. Wear and tear is accepted but not damage. So a trailer
is indicated in order to reduce the distance travelled.

That is one of the points that was bothering me and in the end may well
make me switch back to a big machine. Mini digger plus trailer is likely
to push the budget up to £4000.

As I said before, without any idea of what you want the machine for,
it is impossible to recommend one type over the other. But in
general, farm/smallholding use would suggest a tractor-based JCB, and
work on confined urban sites (or shaft and tunnel digging) would
suggest a mini-excavator.

I live on a steep hillside and the track down the hill on my neighbours
farm was originally made for horse and cart (as are some of the original
gateways). The track has already been widened but it may need further
work to get a JCB down it and at one point it might need re-routing as I
am not convinced the shelf cut into the hillside would stand 7 tons and
have no wish to go tumbling down a 1 in 1 slope.

In another post you asked what was the difference between a JCB 3C and
a 3D. Here's a page that tells you:
http://www.classic-combines.com/jcb.html

I don't recommend you buy from this company as, while the machines may
be within your budget, they sill probably be slightly too small for
your needs. ;-)

Perhaps not. :-)

--
Roger Chapman

Roger wrote:

And finally any particular recommendations.

You need to budget for a trailer. You need to be aware of towing limits,
which will affect your choice of size of digger.

A trailer for a mini-digger could cost you more than your budget.


FWIW, I'm looking for the same thing, but I will need a trailer to haul
the digger across Europe. I have concluded that there are many "cheap"
mini diggers on the market but I suspect that the cheap ones are coupled
to some sort of scam, because the prices are far too low for the
condition of the machine.

As to which one, I've been looking at Kubota and Yanmar, simply because
I've used devices with engines from those makers and the engines are
robust and reliable.

Another alternative is a PTO powered back hoe, if you already have a
tractor. Howevr most of the ones I see for sale are rubbish and
generally don't have a slew ram or even decent levelling rams.

You miight consider micro diggers of 3/4tonne ish. But they are limited
in depth and capacity.

In article ,
Roger wrote:

I have also wondered what would happen with something as heavy as a full
size JCB on soft ground. I don't know for sure how much they weigh but
one advert claimed 7 tons which must be at least twice the weight of my
neighbours tractor.

Not quite the same, but http://www.diggerland.com/visiting/disastergallery.htm
has some diggers that appear to have sunk impressively


Darren

In message , Roger
writes
The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

They aren't designed to tavel. They are designed to dig, oddly enough.

Hence the query about needing to budget for a trailer as well. I could
use my neighbours tractor to tow it around.

How about an old caravan chassis? Old caravans are fairly often
available via Freecyclye.

My own trailer is a basic caravan chassis, comprising the original angle
iron (?) frame, with boards (the original caravan floor) on top. The
load bed is 10' 8" by 6' 4", although I have no idea which type of
caravan it came from, as I didn't complete the conversion myself.
Conversion is too strong a word - it is really just whatever was left
when everything above floor level was ripped off.

Mine managed 500 miles from Aberdeenshire to Hertfordshire, then back
again with a Morris Minor on board, without any problems. Just needed a
light board, which was screwed to the rear. I did arrive home minus one
mudguard, though :-)

I would think something similar would be ideal for towing a mini digger
across a field with a tractor, perhaps running the trailer wheels on
lower than normal tyre pressure.
--
Graeme

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from Bruce contains these words:

You have not said what you want it for. Surely the type of work
to
which you will put the machine will define which machine you need?
And
if you don't even say what it is, how can anyone advise you?

My original draft included details of what I wanted to do but on
reading
it through I came to the conclusion that I had made the case for a
mini
digger rather than a full size JCB so I deleted the detail. For some
of
the work a JCB would be a better bet or just as good but with 2 of
the
jobs lined up - excavations for a ground based heat pump in the
narrow
confines of my garden and rescuing a trampled flat drainage ditch
among
mature trees a full size JCB would make the job much more difficult.

First job to be done is to reroute a troublesome land drain. This
really
needs to be done this year. I need to dig a trench about 80 yards
long
and I am now too old to do that by hand.

The most sensible choice in backhoe loaders is a JCB for easy
availability of spares. Obviously get the newest and best
condition
that you can afford. The earlier ones were not especially
reliable
even when new. Anything less than 15 years old is a better bet if
you
can find one within your price range. Try to get one with a
4-in-1
front bucket as it will doze, load, pick up (clamshell) and act as
a
forklift, hence 4-in-1. Incredibly versatile.

If I do revert to searching for a JCB I think I would need to up my
budget a bit more to get one less than 15 years old.

The most sensible choice in backhoe loaders is (probably) a Kubota
for
sheer reliability. Make sure you get one that hasn't been used in
heavy civil engineering - tunnelling contractors buy them new and
use
them until they break, after which they end up on the used market.
The
mini-excavator can only do two things, one of them badly. It will
dig
well, with the obvious limitations of shallower maximum digging
depth,
lower power and smaller bucket size when compared to a JCB. If is
fitted with a dozer blade, it will doze extremely badly. Those
blades
are tiny, and there is very little control - you cannot see what
you
are doing. But they do add a lot of stability when digging.

The tracks are not made for travelling long distances, more for
moving
around in a small, confined area. Tracking long distances will
wear
out the tracks very quickly. The tracks are tiny and the bearings
are
just too small for arduous travel. Track repairs are expensive -
it
is usually cheaper to fit a service exchange pair of tracks than
repair your own but you will get whacked for any damage to the
pair
you exchange. Wear and tear is accepted but not damage. So a
trailer
is indicated in order to reduce the distance travelled.

That is one of the points that was bothering me and in the end may
well
make me switch back to a big machine. Mini digger plus trailer is
likely
to push the budget up to £4000.

As I said before, without any idea of what you want the machine
for,
it is impossible to recommend one type over the other. But in
general, farm/smallholding use would suggest a tractor-based JCB,
and
work on confined urban sites (or shaft and tunnel digging) would
suggest a mini-excavator.

I live on a steep hillside and the track down the hill on my
neighbours
farm was originally made for horse and cart (as are some of the
original
gateways). The track has already been widened but it may need
further
work to get a JCB down it and at one point it might need re-routing
as I
am not convinced the shelf cut into the hillside would stand 7 tons
and
have no wish to go tumbling down a 1 in 1 slope.

In another post you asked what was the difference between a JCB 3C
and
a 3D. Here's a page that tells you:
http://www.classic-combines.com/jcb.html

I don't recommend you buy from this company as, while the machines
may
be within your budget, they sill probably be slightly too small
for
your needs. ;-)

Perhaps not. :-)

--
Roger Chapman

Roger,

for ditch work I hate to say it but you probably need a "360" tracked
machine - a conventional 3CX type not only is too long (as it needs to
be at 90 degrees to the ditch to be effective) so will give you access
problems, it also needs constant moving to do the next section.

My 3CX is very versatile - today I've been backfilling trenches but it
was also used for moving jumbo bags of ballast, and shifting a
concrete mixer and a JCB Beaver hydralic breaker over a pile of
hardcore - but I will probably get a contractor in to clear my about
1/2 mile of ditches !!!!

AWEM

Roger wrote:

The message
from Bruce contains these words:

You have not said what you want it for. Surely the type of work to
which you will put the machine will define which machine you need? And
if you don't even say what it is, how can anyone advise you?

My original draft included details of what I wanted to do but on reading
it through I came to the conclusion that I had made the case for a mini
digger rather than a full size JCB so I deleted the detail. For some of
the work a JCB would be a better bet or just as good but with 2 of the
jobs lined up - excavations for a ground based heat pump in the narrow
confines of my garden and rescuing a trampled flat drainage ditch among
mature trees a full size JCB would make the job much more difficult.

First job to be done is to reroute a troublesome land drain. This really
needs to be done this year. I need to dig a trench about 80 yards long
and I am now too old to do that by hand.

The most sensible choice in backhoe loaders is a JCB for easy
availability of spares. Obviously get the newest and best condition
that you can afford. The earlier ones were not especially reliable
even when new. Anything less than 15 years old is a better bet if you
can find one within your price range. Try to get one with a 4-in-1
front bucket as it will doze, load, pick up (clamshell) and act as a
forklift, hence 4-in-1. Incredibly versatile.

If I do revert to searching for a JCB I think I would need to up my
budget a bit more to get one less than 15 years old.

The most sensible choice in backhoe loaders is (probably) a Kubota for
sheer reliability. Make sure you get one that hasn't been used in
heavy civil engineering - tunnelling contractors buy them new and use
them until they break, after which they end up on the used market. The
mini-excavator can only do two things, one of them badly. It will dig
well, with the obvious limitations of shallower maximum digging depth,
lower power and smaller bucket size when compared to a JCB. If is
fitted with a dozer blade, it will doze extremely badly. Those blades
are tiny, and there is very little control - you cannot see what you
are doing. But they do add a lot of stability when digging.

The tracks are not made for travelling long distances, more for moving
around in a small, confined area. Tracking long distances will wear
out the tracks very quickly. The tracks are tiny and the bearings are
just too small for arduous travel. Track repairs are expensive - it
is usually cheaper to fit a service exchange pair of tracks than
repair your own but you will get whacked for any damage to the pair
you exchange. Wear and tear is accepted but not damage. So a trailer
is indicated in order to reduce the distance travelled.

That is one of the points that was bothering me and in the end may well
make me switch back to a big machine. Mini digger plus trailer is likely
to push the budget up to £4000.

As I said before, without any idea of what you want the machine for,
it is impossible to recommend one type over the other. But in
general, farm/smallholding use would suggest a tractor-based JCB, and
work on confined urban sites (or shaft and tunnel digging) would
suggest a mini-excavator.

I live on a steep hillside and the track down the hill on my neighbours
farm was originally made for horse and cart (as are some of the original
gateways). The track has already been widened but it may need further
work to get a JCB down it and at one point it might need re-routing as I
am not convinced the shelf cut into the hillside would stand 7 tons and
have no wish to go tumbling down a 1 in 1 slope.

In another post you asked what was the difference between a JCB 3C and
a 3D. Here's a page that tells you:
http://www.classic-combines.com/jcb.html

I don't recommend you buy from this company as, while the machines may
be within your budget, they sill probably be slightly too small for
your needs. ;-)

Perhaps not. :-)


For the size and number of jobs that you need doing, would it not be
cheaper to hire a machine as and when you need it? Or even hire a
machine and operator, because (with all due respect) a skilled
operator will do the job in a quarter of the time that you and I
could.

Alternatively, perhaps it might be worth hiring a mini excavator just
to see how well it works for the jobs that you intend to do?

Here's a hire centre in Leeds, not too far away, but there are bound
to be some closer:

http://tinyurl.com/5o2frj

There are also trackless machines that - apparently - are quite good
once you get used to them. Some are towable and might suit your
requirement for moving around:

http://tinyurl.com/5zyn76
http://tinyurl.com/6kopgy

And finally. here is something of a "wild card" entry:

http://tinyurl.com/62ajf8

I quite like that one!

The message
from Bruce contains these words:

The most sensible choice in backhoe loaders is a JCB

What is a 2 wheel drive JCB like for traction on steep ground? My
neighbours 4 wd tractor is next to useless in 2 wheel drive.

--
Roger Chapman

The message
from Graeme contains these words:

How about an old caravan chassis? Old caravans are fairly often
available via Freecyclye.

My own trailer is a basic caravan chassis, comprising the original angle
iron (?) frame, with boards (the original caravan floor) on top. The
load bed is 10' 8" by 6' 4", although I have no idea which type of
caravan it came from, as I didn't complete the conversion myself.
Conversion is too strong a word - it is really just whatever was left
when everything above floor level was ripped off.

Mine managed 500 miles from Aberdeenshire to Hertfordshire, then back
again with a Morris Minor on board, without any problems. Just needed a
light board, which was screwed to the rear. I did arrive home minus one
mudguard, though :-)

I would think something similar would be ideal for towing a mini digger
across a field with a tractor, perhaps running the trailer wheels on
lower than normal tyre pressure.

My neighbour already has a trailer based on a caravan chassis which was
used for getting the hay in before he switched from small rectangular to
large round bales but it (and indeed almost any other caravan chassis)
is too large to negotiate the twisty track down the hillside behind the
tractor. It would be embarrassing to say the least to get a JCB stuck at
the bottom of the hill. There is no way out but up.

--
Roger Chapman

(dmc) wrote:
In article ,
Roger wrote:

I have also wondered what would happen with something as heavy as a full
size JCB on soft ground. I don't know for sure how much they weigh but
one advert claimed 7 tons which must be at least twice the weight of my
neighbours tractor.

Not quite the same, but http://www.diggerland.com/visiting/disastergallery.htm
has some diggers that appear to have sunk impressively


Uh oh! One of my projects is featured. :-(

Roger wrote:

The message
from Bruce contains these words:

The most sensible choice in backhoe loaders is a JCB

What is a 2 wheel drive JCB like for traction on steep ground?


Not great.

The message
from Bruce contains these words:


snip

Thanks for all the advice so far.

For the size and number of jobs that you need doing, would it not be
cheaper to hire a machine as and when you need it? Or even hire a
machine and operator, because (with all due respect) a skilled
operator will do the job in a quarter of the time that you and I
could.

Being retired time is something I should have in abundance.

The idea behind buying instead of hiring is that at the end of the day
there will be some money back from the sale of the machine. When it
comes to hiring getting a man in with the machine may well be the
cheaper option but it isn't DIY and playing with a new toy is surely
half the fun. :-)

Alternatively, perhaps it might be worth hiring a mini excavator just
to see how well it works for the jobs that you intend to do?

Here's a hire centre in Leeds, not too far away, but there are bound
to be some closer:

http://tinyurl.com/5o2frj

But probably not cheaper and at £60 a day the fees will soon add up. I
can't find a price for a driverless JCB but I assume it will be more
than for a mini digger.

There are also trackless machines that - apparently - are quite good
once you get used to them. Some are towable and might suit your
requirement for moving around:

http://tinyurl.com/5zyn76
http://tinyurl.com/6kopgy

I missed those as I am restricting my searches to a fairly small radius
but my preference remains for a self propelled one even if I need a
trailer to get it around.

Is it time to extend the budget again? There is a 1986 3CX at Sheffield
with a buy it now price of £5000. Too expensive for what it is?

And finally. here is something of a "wild card" entry:

http://tinyurl.com/62ajf8

I quite like that one!

Needs a long extension lead though. :-)

--
Roger Chapman

The message
from "Andrew Mawson" contains
these words:

Roger,

for ditch work I hate to say it but you probably need a "360" tracked
machine - a conventional 3CX type not only is too long (as it needs to
be at 90 degrees to the ditch to be effective) so will give you access
problems, it also needs constant moving to do the next section.

My 3CX is very versatile - today I've been backfilling trenches but it
was also used for moving jumbo bags of ballast, and shifting a
concrete mixer and a JCB Beaver hydralic breaker over a pile of
hardcore - but I will probably get a contractor in to clear my about
1/2 mile of ditches !!!!

Just as I was swinging back in favour of a JCB you put the dampers on.

Is it just not possible to clear ditches with the machine parallel to
the ditch?

And what about straddling ditches? My garden is long and thin. Unless I
can straddle the excavation I can't excavate for the heat pump.

--
Roger Chapman

Roger wrote:

The message
from Bruce contains these words:

snip

Thanks for all the advice so far.


You're very welcome.

This thread is a lot of fun, so thank you for starting it. ;-)


Is it time to extend the budget again? There is a 1986 3CX at Sheffield
with a buy it now price of £5000. Too expensive for what it is?


Was it on eBay? I couldn't find it. It doesn't sound bad for a 3CX
of that age, but it depends on condition, condition, condition.

The message
from Bruce contains these words:

Roger wrote:

The message
from Bruce contains these words:

snip

Thanks for all the advice so far.


You're very welcome.

This thread is a lot of fun, so thank you for starting it. ;-)


Is it time to extend the budget again? There is a 1986 3CX at Sheffield
with a buy it now price of £5000. Too expensive for what it is?


Was it on eBay? I couldn't find it. It doesn't sound bad for a 3CX
of that age, but it depends on condition, condition, condition.

Still there. Item number: 260254360029

No bids but the start bid is the buy it now price of £5000. Advertised
elsewhere as well. No idea whether there is VAT on top. Bit late in the
day to phone for info but I just might tomorrow if it hasn't disappeared
by then. (Dithering like this is how I managed to lose the chance to buy
an older 3 C that was reportedly in good nick.

--
Roger Chapman

Roger wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Roger wrote:
Is it time to extend the budget again? There is a 1986 3CX at Sheffield
with a buy it now price of £5000. Too expensive for what it is?


Was it on eBay? I couldn't find it. It doesn't sound bad for a 3CX
of that age, but it depends on condition, condition, condition.

Still there. Item number: 260254360029


Ah, no "3CX" in the title so my search failed to find it.


No bids but the start bid is the buy it now price of £5000. Advertised
elsewhere as well. No idea whether there is VAT on top. Bit late in the
day to phone for info but I just might tomorrow if it hasn't disappeared
by then. (Dithering like this is how I managed to lose the chance to buy
an older 3 C that was reportedly in good nick.


Too little information. He's selling it for a friend? Cash on
collection only? No mention of VAT or a VAT invoice, so he cannot
legally demand VAT on top.

I think I would dither long and hard over this one. You cannot tell
the condition from photos. If I was handing over £5000 I would want a
JCB trained technician to look it over, and some evidence of real
ownership.

Good feedback, though, so who can tell? ;-)

This one might offer better value. I particularly like what appears
to be an honest description. Not that far from you, either:

http://tinyurl.com/688ydo

There are also some nice mini-excavators on eBay selling at around
£5000 and a little less, alas most are +VAT @ 17.5%:

Kubota:
http://tinyurl.com/5fkavb
http://tinyurl.com/5vdtex
http://tinyurl.com/6btsb7

JCB:
http://tinyurl.com/5oguuj
Look at the hours! 132 hours. You would need to check this is
correct but make an offer of £4500 or so and you can probably have it
delivered to you for £5000 plus the dreaded VAT.

Lots more, of different makes, from £3000 upwards.

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Andrew Mawson" contains
these words:

Roger,

for ditch work I hate to say it but you probably need a "360"
tracked
machine - a conventional 3CX type not only is too long (as it
needs to
be at 90 degrees to the ditch to be effective) so will give you
access
problems, it also needs constant moving to do the next section.

My 3CX is very versatile - today I've been backfilling trenches
but it
was also used for moving jumbo bags of ballast, and shifting a
concrete mixer and a JCB Beaver hydralic breaker over a pile of
hardcore - but I will probably get a contractor in to clear my
about
1/2 mile of ditches !!!!

Just as I was swinging back in favour of a JCB you put the dampers
on.

Is it just not possible to clear ditches with the machine parallel
to
the ditch?

And what about straddling ditches? My garden is long and thin.
Unless I
can straddle the excavation I can't excavate for the heat pump.

--
Roger Chapman

If you place the 3CX parrallel to the ditch, then the back acter is at
90 degrees, which is the least stable position. Bear in mind that one
wheel and foot are on the edge of the bank. If the bank is firm it can
be done, but my banks aren't firm !

It would be a very narrow ditch if you can straddle it - but
straddling is the usual way of trenching. My ditches are perhaps four
foot of water, but sixteen foot from bank lip to bank lip - that would
take a BIG machine to straddle it G

AWEM

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Andrew Mawson" contains
these words:

Roger,

for ditch work I hate to say it but you probably need a "360" tracked
machine - a conventional 3CX type not only is too long (as it needs to
be at 90 degrees to the ditch to be effective) so will give you access
problems, it also needs constant moving to do the next section.

My 3CX is very versatile - today I've been backfilling trenches but it
was also used for moving jumbo bags of ballast, and shifting a
concrete mixer and a JCB Beaver hydralic breaker over a pile of
hardcore - but I will probably get a contractor in to clear my about
1/2 mile of ditches !!!!

Just as I was swinging back in favour of a JCB you put the dampers on.

Is it just not possible to clear ditches with the machine parallel to
the ditch?

And what about straddling ditches? My garden is long and thin. Unless I
can straddle the excavation I can't excavate for the heat pump.


These are a few photos of a recovery of a burntout car that some little
scrotes had driven over a waterlogged football pitch and down a track by a
river, Due to trees and the state the pitch would have been in the only way
to recover it was to cut right across very boggy marshland, How they got it
there in the first place......

We used a four wheel drive tractor (probably weighing as much as a JCB!) and
as the photos show a tracked digger to get the car out and onto the trailer.

The tractor made heavy weather as the tracks show , the wee digger just
floated over the surface, 4 months later tractor tracks still show but
nothing at all from the wee digger (infact we got the digger to clear up
some the tractors wheelmarks!!


Des

"Dieseldes" wrote in message
...

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Andrew Mawson" contains
these words:

Roger,

for ditch work I hate to say it but you probably need a "360" tracked
machine - a conventional 3CX type not only is too long (as it needs to
be at 90 degrees to the ditch to be effective) so will give you access
problems, it also needs constant moving to do the next section.

My 3CX is very versatile - today I've been backfilling trenches but it
was also used for moving jumbo bags of ballast, and shifting a
concrete mixer and a JCB Beaver hydralic breaker over a pile of
hardcore - but I will probably get a contractor in to clear my about
1/2 mile of ditches !!!!

Just as I was swinging back in favour of a JCB you put the dampers on.

Is it just not possible to clear ditches with the machine parallel to
the ditch?

And what about straddling ditches? My garden is long and thin. Unless I
can straddle the excavation I can't excavate for the heat pump.


These are a few photos of a recovery of a burntout car that some little
scrotes had driven over a waterlogged football pitch and down a track by a
river, Due to trees and the state the pitch would have been in the only
way to recover it was to cut right across very boggy marshland, How they
got it there in the first place......

We used a four wheel drive tractor (probably weighing as much as a JCB!)
and as the photos show a tracked digger to get the car out and onto the
trailer.

The tractor made heavy weather as the tracks show , the wee digger just
floated over the surface, 4 months later tractor tracks still show but
nothing at all from the wee digger (infact we got the digger to clear up
some the tractors wheelmarks!!


Des

Oops forgot link http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/gallery/view/19959978

In message , Roger
writes
The message
from Tim Lamb contains these words:

I have decided to up my budget to £3000 but that is still very much the
bottom end of the market, particularly for a mini digger.

I would have offered my JCB 3D but you said distance costs:-)

Don't tempt me. IIRC you are somewhere like Shropshire. 150 @£3/mile is
10% of the increased budget gone. (Incidentally I don't understand the
difference between a 3C and a 3D).

Herts. Extending dipper and (this one) has the kit for a hydraulic
breaker. Very tired. It currently has a problem with the power shuttle
anyway and I am too busy to fix. Lots of abraded hoses!

regards

--
Tim Lamb

The message
from "Andrew Mawson" contains
these words:

If you place the 3CX parrallel to the ditch, then the back acter is at
90 degrees, which is the least stable position. Bear in mind that one
wheel and foot are on the edge of the bank. If the bank is firm it can
be done, but my banks aren't firm !

It would be a very narrow ditch if you can straddle it - but
straddling is the usual way of trenching. My ditches are perhaps four
foot of water, but sixteen foot from bank lip to bank lip - that would
take a BIG machine to straddle it G

My neighbours ditch that I have in mind to clear is actually a piddling
little stream that needs keeping clear so the water table doesn't turn
the adjacent hay meadow into a quagmire. At one point it flows through a
6" pipe (where a cattle grid used to be). The hay meadow is fenced off
and the other side is a bog but shifting the fence might be the way to
get at the stream.

--
Roger Chapman

The message
from Bruce contains these words:


Still there. Item number: 260254360029


Ah, no "3CX" in the title so my search failed to find it.

Nor in the description but it does show up in a photo.

Is the weight right? Another advert claimed a scrap value for a 3 C at
£1700. There is no way 3.5 tons would fetch that price as scrap unless
scrap steel has doubled in value since I last checked the price.


No bids but the start bid is the buy it now price of £5000. Advertised
elsewhere as well. No idea whether there is VAT on top. Bit late in the
day to phone for info but I just might tomorrow if it hasn't disappeared
by then. (Dithering like this is how I managed to lose the chance to buy
an older 3 C that was reportedly in good nick.


Too little information. He's selling it for a friend? Cash on
collection only? No mention of VAT or a VAT invoice, so he cannot
legally demand VAT on top.

No but he might hold out for vat to clinch the deal. The registration
number is quoted so where do I check for lost or stolen?

I think I would dither long and hard over this one. You cannot tell
the condition from photos. If I was handing over £5000 I would want a
JCB trained technician to look it over, and some evidence of real
ownership.

Unfortunately I don't have such an associate to hand so I have to take
much on trust.

Good feedback, though, so who can tell? ;-)

But he isn't the seller.

This one might offer better value. I particularly like what appears
to be an honest description. Not that far from you, either:

Seems there is a new tyre to get as well and FWIW the machine doesn't
seem in as good nick as the one that the scrap man beat me to earlier.

http://tinyurl.com/688ydo

There are also some nice mini-excavators on eBay selling at around
£5000 and a little less, alas most are +VAT @ 17.5%:

Kubota:
http://tinyurl.com/5fkavb
http://tinyurl.com/5vdtex
http://tinyurl.com/6btsb7

JCB:
http://tinyurl.com/5oguuj
Look at the hours! 132 hours. You would need to check this is
correct but make an offer of £4500 or so and you can probably have it
delivered to you for £5000 plus the dreaded VAT.

But I need a trailer as well.

That place in Worcester seems to be the major dealer in diggers on e-bay.

Lots more, of different makes, from £3000 upwards.

--
Roger Chapman

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from Bruce contains these words:


snip

Is the weight right? Another advert claimed a scrap value for a 3 C at
£1700. There is no way 3.5 tons would fetch that price as scrap unless
scrap steel has doubled in value since I last checked the price.


snip

£140 for a Diesel peugeot 106 cash over the weighbridge yesterday, it was a
good runner but not worth repairing.( all it needed was a bit of welding 2
tyres and the brakes freed off)

Des

The message
from Tim Lamb contains these words:

I would have offered my JCB 3D but you said distance costs:-)

Don't tempt me. IIRC you are somewhere like Shropshire. 150 @£3/mile is
10% of the increased budget gone. (Incidentally I don't understand the
difference between a 3C and a 3D).

Herts. Extending dipper and (this one) has the kit for a hydraulic
breaker. Very tired. It currently has a problem with the power shuttle
anyway and I am too busy to fix. Lots of abraded hoses!

Even worse. That's almost 200 miles away and, being a novice at this, I
do want a reliable machine.

--
Roger Chapman

Roger wrote:
The message
from Tim Lamb contains these words:

I would have offered my JCB 3D but you said distance costs:-)
Don't tempt me. IIRC you are somewhere like Shropshire. 150 @£3/mile is
10% of the increased budget gone. (Incidentally I don't understand the
difference between a 3C and a 3D).

Herts. Extending dipper and (this one) has the kit for a hydraulic
breaker. Very tired. It currently has a problem with the power shuttle
anyway and I am too busy to fix. Lots of abraded hoses!

Even worse. That's almost 200 miles away and, being a novice at this, I
do want a reliable machine.

Then hire one.


3-4 grand buys a lot of hire time.