The other day in Wickes, I was looking for some caustic soda to use
occasionally to prevent gunk-accretion in the traps, especially under
the shower. I couldn't find any, but they had some "Biological Drain
Cleaner" (ecological, friendly to septic tanks, etc.) whose
ingredients are supposed to digest hair, soap, grease, etc.,
overnight.

I think this is the same stuff (although the bottle has changed a
bit from that picture):

http://www.wickes.co.uk/MaintenanceI...er/invt/425099

Has anyone else evaluated this or something similar?


Is caustic soda (dangerous but cheap) getting harder to find these
days? Is it ecologically nasty?

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
The other day in Wickes, I was looking for some caustic soda to use
occasionally to prevent gunk-accretion in the traps, especially under
the shower. I couldn't find any, but they had some "Biological Drain
Cleaner" (ecological, friendly to septic tanks, etc.) whose
ingredients are supposed to digest hair, soap, grease, etc.,
overnight.

I think this is the same stuff (although the bottle has changed a
bit from that picture):

http://www.wickes.co.uk/MaintenanceI...er/invt/425099

Has anyone else evaluated this or something similar?


Is caustic soda (dangerous but cheap) getting harder to find these
days? Is it ecologically nasty?

I have never had a problem with traps - could the use of only liquid soaps
be the best way of preventing problems? It certainly reduces the need to
clean taps, tiles and screens.

I uses Sanex Body Wash. Wife uses all sorts of other stuff - but we never
use solid bar soap as this is made from fat.

On Fri, 23 May 2008 12:15:48 +0100, Adam Funk wrote:

Is caustic soda (dangerous but cheap) getting harder to find these
days? Is it ecologically nasty?

I don't find it harder, but there's only one place I ever look for it and
that's always had it when I needed it (though I think I've seen it
elsewhere).

As for its environmental effects, it comprises - and breaks down into
other compunds of - Sodium, Hydrogen and Oxygen; as found in
(depending on your point of view) common salt and water, or nuclear
reactor coolant and potentially-deadly di-hydrogen monoxide ;-)


--
John Stumbles

Xenophobia? Sounds a bit foreign to me.

Adam Funk wrote:

The other day in Wickes, I was looking for some caustic soda to use
occasionally to prevent gunk-accretion in the traps, especially under
the shower. I couldn't find any, but they had some "Biological Drain
Cleaner" (ecological, friendly to septic tanks, etc.) whose
ingredients are supposed to digest hair, soap, grease, etc.,
overnight.

I think this is the same stuff (although the bottle has changed a
bit from that picture):

http://www.wickes.co.uk/MaintenanceI...er/invt/425099

Has anyone else evaluated this or something similar?


Is caustic soda (dangerous but cheap) getting harder to find these
days? Is it ecologically nasty?

It is one of those things most places don't stock. Maybe becuse its
so non idiotproof.


NT

John Stumbles wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2008 12:15:48 +0100, Adam Funk wrote:

Is caustic soda (dangerous but cheap) getting harder to find these
days? Is it ecologically nasty?

I don't find it harder, but there's only one place I ever look for it
and that's always had it when I needed it (though I think I've seen it
elsewhere).


Bought some in B&Q last week, loads in stock.


As for its environmental effects, it comprises - and breaks down into
other compunds of - Sodium, Hydrogen and Oxygen; as found in
(depending on your point of view) common salt and water, or nuclear
reactor coolant and potentially-deadly di-hydrogen monoxide ;-)


Nasty stuff that di-hydrogen monoxide - the Guvmint should ban it.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "John"
saying something like:

I uses Sanex Body Wash. Wife uses all sorts of other stuff - but we never
use solid bar soap as this is made from fat.

Aye, nowt like a good bar of cow-soap.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House

On Fri, 23 May 2008 22:23:59 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "John"
saying something like:

I uses Sanex Body Wash. Wife uses all sorts of other stuff - but we never
use solid bar soap as this is made from fat.

As a chemical feedstock, yes.

From "A" level chemistry Ca. 1964.

Stearic acid (IE fatty acid from stears) = C17-H35 -COOH

Rudimentary soap is the Sodium Salt = C17-H35-COONa

So properly made "Soap" is completely water soluble.

Hardness, "scum" etc is something else.

Aye, nowt like a good bar of cow-soap.

And, IGWS, soft water.

The detergents you mention above are made from mineral oil, like
By-Prox from BP.

http://www.almondvalley.co.uk/commer.../cb_byprox.htm

(I leave it to your imagination where Iranophol comes from ...)

Or wegible oil.

PS. Organic chemists be kind to me, it was about the last chemistry I
did and it's 40+ years ago ... ;-)

DG

"Derek Geldard" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 May 2008 22:23:59 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "John"
saying something like:

I uses Sanex Body Wash. Wife uses all sorts of other stuff - but we never
use solid bar soap as this is made from fat.

As a chemical feedstock, yes.

From "A" level chemistry Ca. 1964.

Stearic acid (IE fatty acid from stears) = C17-H35 -COOH

Rudimentary soap is the Sodium Salt = C17-H35-COONa

So properly made "Soap" is completely water soluble.

Hardness, "scum" etc is something else.

Aye, nowt like a good bar of cow-soap.

And, IGWS, soft water.

The detergents you mention above are made from mineral oil, like
By-Prox from BP.

http://www.almondvalley.co.uk/commer.../cb_byprox.htm

(I leave it to your imagination where Iranophol comes from ...)

Or wegible oil.

Which leads me onto a pet rant - "contains no SLS or SLES". Contains the
ammonium versions of these ionic surfactants and salt - now can somebody
tell me precisely how this is different to containing the sodium version and
some ammonium chloride?

I did actually contact one of these companies. They got back to me saying
"our chemists said they're different". At which point I decided there was
little point pursuing it.

cheers,
clive

coughed up some electrons that declared:

On 23 May,
Adam Funk wrote:

Is caustic soda (dangerous but cheap) getting harder to find these
days? Is it ecologically nasty?

The last lot I got from Homebase, which is itself getting harder to find.


Plenty of caustic around - suggest a proper hardware store...

Owain wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Nasty stuff that di-hydrogen monoxide - the Guvmint should ban it.

They're doing their best trying to discourage consumption by metering
and charging for it.

You can still get it on the black market....

Pushers everywhere.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Adam Funk wrote:
The other day in Wickes, I was looking for some caustic soda to use
occasionally to prevent gunk-accretion in the traps, especially under
the shower. I couldn't find any, but they had some "Biological Drain
Cleaner" (ecological, friendly to septic tanks, etc.) whose
ingredients are supposed to digest hair, soap, grease, etc.,
overnight.

I think this is the same stuff (although the bottle has changed a
bit from that picture):

http://www.wickes.co.uk/MaintenanceI...er/invt/425099

Has anyone else evaluated this or something similar?


Is caustic soda (dangerous but cheap) getting harder to find these
days? Is it ecologically nasty?

You can always pick it up at Wilko and home bargains.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Tim S saying
something like:

Plenty of caustic around - suggest a proper hardware store...

In light of the loony in Exeter apparently using Sodium Hydroxide and
paraffin to make his bomb, I expect caustic to be added to the list of
controlled substances now.

"I went to Exeter to be a suicide bomber, but all I got was a burnt
nose" - T-shirt.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House

Grimly Curmudgeon coughed up some electrons that declared:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Tim S saying
something like:

Plenty of caustic around - suggest a proper hardware store...

In light of the loony in Exeter apparently using Sodium Hydroxide and
paraffin to make his bomb, I expect caustic to be added to the list of
controlled substances now.

They going to ban ali-foil as well?

"I went to Exeter to be a suicide bomber, but all I got was a burnt
nose" - T-shirt.

LoL.

Adam Funk wrote:

Is caustic soda (dangerous but cheap) getting harder to find these
days?

Probably, current thinking seems to be that the entire population of the
UK is dimmer than a whelk[1] or determined to blow something up.

Is it ecologically nasty?

At point of use, no not really. It will be neutralised eventually by
absorbtion of CO2 from the atmosphere and is diluted massively when it
enters a septic tank so it doesn't really interfere with them so long as
you keep your use to reasonable quantities.

I have a septic tank and use sodium hydroxide for a number of cleaning
tasks such as drains, pans (stainless), cooker, roasting pans and baking
sheets. Never had a problem with the septic tank.

OTOH I worked for a short time for a company that put caustic soda waste
into the Mersey. From the point where the waste was added, down to the
sea the Mersey was dead and it was entirely the fault of one factory.

The factory is now gone and that part of the river is now a trout
stream. So caustic soda can be a dire environmental hazard, it's a
question of scale.



[1] Drivel provides all the evidence they need.

In message , Tim S
writes
Grimly Curmudgeon coughed up some electrons that declared:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Tim S saying
something like:

Plenty of caustic around - suggest a proper hardware store...

In light of the loony in Exeter apparently using Sodium Hydroxide and
paraffin to make his bomb, I expect caustic to be added to the list of
controlled substances now.

S'OK - I have 20kg tucked away


They going to ban ali-foil as well?

And what will everyone do for hats then ?



"I went to Exeter to be a suicide bomber, but all I got was a burnt
nose" - T-shirt.

LoL.

--
geoff

On 2008-05-23, John Stumbles wrote:

Is caustic soda (dangerous but cheap) getting harder to find these
days? Is it ecologically nasty?

As for its environmental effects, it comprises - and breaks down into
other compunds of - Sodium, Hydrogen and Oxygen; as found in
(depending on your point of view) common salt and water, or nuclear
reactor coolant and potentially-deadly di-hydrogen monoxide ;-)

Well, I know that after it's neutralized or sufficiently diluted it's
perfectly harmless (and that it can turn fats into soap). I just
wondered if it caused any trouble on the way.

On 2008-05-24, Tim S wrote:

In light of the loony in Exeter apparently using Sodium Hydroxide and
paraffin to make his bomb, I expect caustic to be added to the list of
controlled substances now.

They going to ban ali-foil as well?

Yes, so that you can't screen against the mind-control rays.

I for one welcome our new alien lizard overlords.

On 2008-05-24, Steve Firth wrote:

Is it ecologically nasty?

At point of use, no not really. It will be neutralised eventually by
absorbtion of CO2 from the atmosphere and is diluted massively when it
enters a septic tank so it doesn't really interfere with them so long as
you keep your use to reasonable quantities.

Good point. I knew it could be neutralized to harmlessness, but I
hadn't thought about "automatic" neutralization from CO2.


I have a septic tank and use sodium hydroxide for a number of cleaning
tasks such as drains, pans (stainless), cooker, roasting pans and baking
sheets. Never had a problem with the septic tank.

I don't have one, but I try not to break the sewer treatment plants
anyway.

On 2008-05-24, Doki wrote:

Is caustic soda (dangerous but cheap) getting harder to find these
days? Is it ecologically nasty?

You can always pick it up at Wilko and home bargains.

Thanks. I'll check there after I've evaluated this "probiotic" stuff.

Adam Funk coughed up some electrons that declared:

On 2008-05-24, Tim S wrote:

In light of the loony in Exeter apparently using Sodium Hydroxide and
paraffin to make his bomb, I expect caustic to be added to the list of
controlled substances now.

They going to ban ali-foil as well?

Yes, so that you can't screen against the mind-control rays.

I for one welcome our new alien lizard overlords.

Best lay of the Slashdot for a while...

;-

Adam Funk wrote:

On 2008-05-24, Steve Firth wrote:

Is it ecologically nasty?

At point of use, no not really. It will be neutralised eventually by
absorbtion of CO2 from the atmosphere and is diluted massively when it
enters a septic tank so it doesn't really interfere with them so long as
you keep your use to reasonable quantities.

Good point. I knew it could be neutralized to harmlessness, but I
hadn't thought about "automatic" neutralization from CO2.

Be aware it can take a long time. Caustic soda is a strong alkali and
CO2 forms a very weak acid. For example, soap made using caustic soda
takes several weeks to absorb sufficient CO2 from the atmosphere to make
it usable.

On 2008-05-24, Steve Firth wrote:

[about caustic soda]

At point of use, no not really. It will be neutralised eventually by
absorbtion of CO2 from the atmosphere and is diluted massively when it
enters a septic tank so it doesn't really interfere with them so long as
you keep your use to reasonable quantities.

Good point. I knew it could be neutralized to harmlessness, but I
hadn't thought about "automatic" neutralization from CO2.

Be aware it can take a long time. Caustic soda is a strong alkali and
CO2 forms a very weak acid. For example, soap made using caustic soda
takes several weeks to absorb sufficient CO2 from the atmosphere to make
it usable.

I wasn't going to exhale on it and then stick my hands in. ;-)
The point CO2 thing was (I understood) just for the ecological
perspective.

On 2008-05-24, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2008-05-24, Doki wrote:

Is caustic soda (dangerous but cheap) getting harder to find these
days? Is it ecologically nasty?

You can always pick it up at Wilko and home bargains.

Thanks. I'll check there after I've evaluated this "probiotic" stuff.

Here's my evaluation.

Putting the biological stuff in the drain overnight once in a while
works for keeping the shower drain from getting slow, but I don't know
how long it would take to clear a *blocked* drain.

Advantage over caustic soda: safety. I got a bit on my hands with no
problem, whereas I'd use rubber gloves and goggles to handle caustic
soda, and I'd be concerned about other people in the house coming in
contact with it until it the area around the plughole had been rinsed
thoroughly.

Disadvantage: price. (Caustic soda is a lot cheaper.)