From this website
http://www.msarch.co.uk/ecohome/tour.html


As the couple planned to invite lodgers, they needed a second
fridge/freezer, so naturally. They decided to find an energy-efficient and
ozone-friendly model. It was also fitted with a SavaPlug which saves a
further 20% on what is the most energy-intensive device in the house after
hot water and central heating


Where can these plugs be obtained, are they expensive, and do they really
save that amount of energy?

This house is being updated to near, or better, new house insulation
levels - consuming as little energy as possible. The e.g., in best example
in the country.




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Where can these plugs be obtained, are they expensive, and do they
really save that amount of energy?

I have no idea what it is, but you can be sure that it doesn't work. The
fridge manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to get good energy efficiency so
that they can put 'A' stickers on the things in the showrooms. If there
really was a 50p device to save 20% of the energy for free, it would already
be incorporated into the design.

Christian.

In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:

I have no idea what it is, but you can be sure that it doesn't work.

http://www.jsbusiness.clara.co.uk/ec.../savaplug.html

A while back someone in Iceland (the shop - not the country tried to sell
me one of these.

fridge manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to get good energy efficiency so
that they can put 'A' stickers on the things in the showrooms. If there
really was a 50p device to save 20% of the energy for free, it would already
be incorporated into the design.


and that was my argument in the shop. They seem to sell for about 20 quid
IIRC.

Darren

Christian McArdle wrote:

I have no idea what it is, but you can be sure that it doesn't work. The
fridge manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to get good energy efficiency so
that they can put 'A' stickers on the things in the showrooms. If there
really was a 50p device to save 20% of the energy for free, it would already
be incorporated into the design.

Erm...This is IMM you're talking to. You know, IMM, as in
magnetic water softners??

--
Grunff

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:58:25 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

If there
really was a 50p device to save 20% of the energy for free, it would already
be incorporated into the design.

These days, it usually is.

Savaplugs did work on old fridges, especially those where the door was
regularly opened. Comparing fridge energy costs and their replacement
costs, then there's a lot to be said for modern higher-efficiency
fridges anyway.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

Savaplugs did work on old fridges, especially those where the door was
regularly opened.

What were they? Some sort of anti-cycling logic?

Christian.

In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:
Where can these plugs be obtained, are they expensive, and do they
really save that amount of energy?

I have no idea what it is, but you can be sure that it doesn't work. The
fridge manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to get good energy
efficiency so that they can put 'A' stickers on the things in the
showrooms. If there really was a 50p device to save 20% of the energy
for free, it would already be incorporated into the design.

Don't use logic with IMM. He believes every advert he reads.

--
*What hair colour do they put on the driver's license of a bald man? *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Christian McArdle wrote:

Where can these plugs be obtained, are they expensive, and do they
really save that amount of energy?


I have no idea what it is, but you can be sure that it doesn't work. The

Must admit I was sceptical - not so sure now....

If you have a look at the makers web site:-

http://www.savawatt.com/

they have a case study PDF (here
http://www.savawatt.com/pdf/howitworks1.zip) that does give a fair
amount of technical detail as to how they work. The plug seems to be a
combination of a Power Factor Corrector and a PWM power controller.

The argument they state, is that the motors used (especially on smaller
devices) are oversized so as to accommodate the high torque requirements
at switch on from the stall position. Once the motor is spinning and at
a steady state, you can use the PWM power control to reduce the power
input into the motor. This should not impact the motors ability to run
the compressor since it is oversized. This will give savings as a result
of less power dissipation in the motor, and they also suggest that you
get better efficiency from a more highly loaded motor than a lightly
loaded one - the reduced power input resulting in an increase in the
loading on the motor.

I don't know enough about AC induction motors to comment on the motor
efficiency issues, although I can see advantages to having a power
factor corrector on the inductive motor load.

As others have suggested - it may well be that some fridge manufactures
already include such facilities in their compressor design these days.

As an aside: does anyone know if a domestic electricity meter measures
real or apparent power?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , John Rumm
writes

As an aside: does anyone know if a domestic electricity meter measures
real or apparent power?


I believe that a domestic electricity meter does not take account of
power factor, only the zero phase angle current is measured. If you have
lots of devices with large power factor you effectively get free
electricity.
--
Tim Mitchell

If you have lots of devices with large power factor you effectively
get free electricity.

Well not really. It measures the actual power you consume, but doesn't make
you pay for extracting it inefficiently through reactive loading.

Christian.

In article ,
John Rumm writes:

As an aside: does anyone know if a domestic electricity meter measures
real or apparent power?

It measures real energy consumed. You don't get charged extra
for low power factor (except that will result in extra energy
lost in cable resistance, and you will get charged for that
energy lost on your side of the electricity meter).

--
Andrew Gabriel

Christian McArdle wrote:

Where can these plugs be obtained, are they expensive, and do they
really save that amount of energy?

I have no idea what it is, but you can be sure that it doesn't work. The
fridge manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to get good energy efficiency so
that they can put 'A' stickers on the things in the showrooms. If there
really was a 50p device to save 20% of the energy for free, it would already
be incorporated into the design.

We have had this thread a few times in the (several years ago) past.
The general speculation/conclusion was that _very_ old fridges and
freezers might save some juice this way - the plug is mainly just a
diode IIRC!).

It is also possible that under normal conditions of service there is a
small amount to be gained but that under arduous conditions (like the
hot week in early August) the plug might actually interfere with the
correct operation of the motor.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Just ran a search on 'Google' and found they cost between £18 and £24. If
they do work it would be some time before you got your money back. Also they
look quite bulky.

"IMM" wrote in message
...
From this website
http://www.msarch.co.uk/ecohome/tour.html


As the couple planned to invite lodgers, they needed a second
fridge/freezer, so naturally. They decided to find an energy-efficient and
ozone-friendly model. It was also fitted with a SavaPlug which saves a
further 20% on what is the most energy-intensive device in the house after
hot water and central heating


Where can these plugs be obtained, are they expensive, and do they really
save that amount of energy?

This house is being updated to near, or better, new house insulation
levels - consuming as little energy as possible. The e.g., in best
example
in the country.




---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 18/09/2003

IMM wrote:
From this website
http://www.msarch.co.uk/ecohome/tour.html


As the couple planned to invite lodgers, they needed a second
fridge/freezer, so naturally. They decided to find an
energy-efficient and ozone-friendly model. It was also fitted with a
SavaPlug which saves a further 20% on what is the most
energy-intensive device in the house after hot water and central
heating

Where can these plugs be obtained, are they expensive, and do they
really save that amount of energy?
Only if you really really believe that they do ....

"BillR" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:
From this website
http://www.msarch.co.uk/ecohome/tour.html


As the couple planned to invite lodgers, they needed a second
fridge/freezer, so naturally. They decided to find an
energy-efficient and ozone-friendly model. It was also fitted with a
SavaPlug which saves a further 20% on what is the most
energy-intensive device in the house after hot water and central
heating

Where can these plugs be obtained, are they expensive, and do they
really save that amount of energy?

Only if you really really believe that they do ....

It is not from a makers web site, and it woiuld be nice to know if others
have the same results.


---
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Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 18/09/2003

"IMM" wrote in message
...
From this website
http://www.msarch.co.uk/ecohome/tour.html


As the couple planned to invite lodgers, they needed a second
fridge/freezer, so naturally. They decided to find an energy-efficient and
ozone-friendly model. It was also fitted with a SavaPlug which saves a
further 20% on what is the most energy-intensive device in the house after
hot water and central heating


Where can these plugs be obtained, are they expensive, and do they really
save that amount of energy?


A quick google search will probably throw up a number of suppliers. Think
they cost about £20 - £25. As for the energy savings, I guess it depends on
the quality of the appliance you fit it to. I would imagine that the
Savaplug works by allow full power to be drawn to achieve the necessary
start-up torque when the pump is stalled, but then limits it once the pump
is running. Depending on the quality of the appliance, it may already be
fitted with similar energy saving circuitry. Probably worthwhile if you have
an ancient old fridge or fridge freezer, but with a modern, energy-efficient
A-class then I reckon the savings would be minimal and the payback period
make it uneconomic.

Cheers
Clive

"Clive Summerfield" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
From this website
http://www.msarch.co.uk/ecohome/tour.html


As the couple planned to invite lodgers, they needed a second
fridge/freezer, so naturally. They decided to find an energy-efficient
and
ozone-friendly model. It was also fitted with a SavaPlug which saves a
further 20% on what is the most energy-intensive device in the house
after
hot water and central heating


Where can these plugs be obtained, are they expensive, and do they
really
save that amount of energy?


A quick google search will probably throw up a number of suppliers. Think
they cost about £20 - £25. As for the energy savings, I guess it depends
on
the quality of the appliance you fit it to. I would imagine that the
Savaplug works by allow full power to be drawn to achieve the necessary
start-up torque when the pump is stalled, but then limits it once the pump
is running. Depending on the quality of the appliance, it may already be
fitted with similar energy saving circuitry. Probably worthwhile if you
have
an ancient old fridge or fridge freezer, but with a modern,
energy-efficient
A-class then I reckon the savings would be minimal and the payback period
make it uneconomic.

The web site said they have an energy efficient fridge and a Savaplug.


---
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Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 18/09/2003

"Clive Summerfield" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
From this website
http://www.msarch.co.uk/ecohome/tour.html


As the couple planned to invite lodgers, they needed a second
fridge/freezer, so naturally. They decided to find an energy-efficient
and
ozone-friendly model. It was also fitted with a SavaPlug which saves a
further 20% on what is the most energy-intensive device in the house
after
hot water and central heating


Where can these plugs be obtained, are they expensive, and do they
really
save that amount of energy?


A quick google search will probably throw up a number of suppliers. Think
they cost about £20 - £25. As for the energy savings, I guess it depends
on
the quality of the appliance you fit it to. I would imagine that the
Savaplug works by allow full power to be drawn to achieve the necessary
start-up torque when the pump is stalled, but then limits it once the pump
is running. Depending on the quality of the appliance, it may already be
fitted with similar energy saving circuitry. Probably worthwhile if you
have
an ancient old fridge or fridge freezer, but with a modern,
energy-efficient
A-class then I reckon the savings would be minimal and the payback period
make it uneconomic.

Also from the same website


Energy-efficient and ozone-friendly fridge/freezer by Bosch. It is A-rated
(the most efficient rating) for both fridge and freezer cycles and uses a
hydrocarbon instead of the more prevalent HCFCs as the coolant fluid. This
model was a mechanically perfect slight second (note light scratch on front)
so was reduced to £600 from £1000 from Roy Waring (Engineering) Ltd (tel
01777 870487). The combi-oven was £600 from the same place. The SavaPlug is
a British invention which will save about £12 a year per unit and costs £25
from the highstreet.


According to them this Savaplug works on a top line A rated fridge. So the
Savaplug will pay for itself in 2 years.




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According to them this Savaplug works on a top line A rated fridge.
So the Savaplug will pay for itself in 2 years.

If you wrap a magnetic water conditioner around the mains flex, you'll even
get an additional 20% reduction in energy usage, giving a total reduction of
40%.

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:

According to them this Savaplug works on a top line A rated fridge.
So the Savaplug will pay for itself in 2 years.

If you wrap a magnetic water conditioner around the mains flex, you'll even
get an additional 20% reduction in energy usage, giving a total reduction of
40%.

Christian.

Not even IMM could get this saving.

80% of 80% is 64% hence the saving would be 36%.Maybe we should not confuse with
him mathematics and science in one go!

Bob

80% of 80% is 64% hence the saving would be 36%.Maybe we should not
confuse with him mathematics and science in one go!

Better still, we could install 6 conditioners on the flex. Then we would
save 120%. The fridge would, in effect, be producing electricity that we
could use round the house, like running a few fan heaters.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
t...
According to them this Savaplug works on a top line A rated fridge.
So the Savaplug will pay for itself in 2 years.

If you wrap a magnetic water conditioner around the mains flex, you'll even
get an additional 20% reduction in energy usage, giving a total reduction of
40%.

No, you need to wrap a hydraulic magnet conitioner around the flex.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
t...
According to them this Savaplug works on a top line A rated fridge.
So the Savaplug will pay for itself in 2 years.

If you wrap a magnetic water conditioner around the mains flex, you'll
even
get an additional 20% reduction in energy usage, giving a total reduction
of
40%.

I'll have to run out and get one or two.


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According to them this Savaplug works on a top line A rated fridge.
So the Savaplug will pay for itself in 2 years.


Hi

I probably still have one somewhere that failed safety test. I always
wondered what it did. Inside there's a triac and some discrete control
circuitry - no ICs or anything.

My best guess based on this, and it is a total guess, is that it might
supply full power at start up, then trim some off the leading edges
off the waveform once the motor was upto speed. But.. its only
guessing.

Centre for Alternative Technology (C.A.T.) sell them for around 20,
but when I contacted them got no info back, so I was rather sceptical.


Regards, NT

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 14:18:42 GMT, Clive Summerfield wrote:


"IMM" wrote in message
...
From this website
http://www.msarch.co.uk/ecohome/tour.html


As the couple planned to invite lodgers, they needed a second
fridge/freezer, so naturally. They decided to find an energy-efficient and
ozone-friendly model. It was also fitted with a SavaPlug which saves a
further 20% on what is the most energy-intensive device in the house after
hot water and central heating


Where can these plugs be obtained, are they expensive, and do they really
save that amount of energy?


A quick google search will probably throw up a number of suppliers. Think
they cost about £20 - £25. As for the energy savings, I guess it depends on
the quality of the appliance you fit it to. I would imagine that the
Savaplug works by allow full power to be drawn to achieve the necessary
start-up torque when the pump is stalled, but then limits it once the pump
is running.

That does seem to be the general idea looking at several sites (generally a
word for word repeat of the manufacturer's blurb). I don't know much about
pumps, but surely the pump only draws the power needed to keep it running?
There is an Estates Review page that favourably covers their use by
Redbridge Borough Council on
http://domain258282.sites.fasthosts....njul02/008.htm

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:59:20 +0100, John Armstrong
wrote:

I don't know much about
pumps, but surely the pump only draws the power needed to keep it running?

No, that is basically the problem.

Look at a workshop compressor. Any modern one will have an "unloader
valve" (You can hear this hiss whenever the compressor motor cuts
out). The function of the unloader is to empty the compressor cylinder
of compressed air, so that next time it starts up it's pumping into a
low pressure, rather than trying to start against an already full
cylinder. As it is, workshop compressors pull a huge current at
startup and running one without an unloader would pop the fuse on a
domestic supply.

Fridges (of any sort) don't have such valves. There's a natural
reluctance to add any such potential leaky valve to a sealed
regrigerant system. So when a fridge compressor starts, it's pumping
into a high load. Such a compressor motor must thus be rated for its
starting power, which is over-rating it for the running power.

The Savaplug reduces motor power electrically, after a small delay
from first starting. It's a good idea, although the original plugs
were far from cheap. It's also an idea that's easy to build inside a
new fridge, and my understanding is that many of them now do so.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

Yup. It's essentially a delayed-start dimmer module. The same thing
is used on industrial fans which need to be speed controlled. They
might be full of kitchen grease or whatever, so the speed control
gives full power for a few seconds to get 'em going, then reduces the
mains waveform to give the lower-than-maximum running speed. The
savaplug just has a preset amount of 'dimming' compromised between
working on *most* appliances, and saving electricity.

"impvan" wrote in message
m...
Yup. It's essentially a delayed-start dimmer module. The same thing
is used on industrial fans which need to be speed controlled. They
might be full of kitchen grease or whatever, so the speed control
gives full power for a few seconds to get 'em going, then reduces the
mains waveform to give the lower-than-maximum running speed. The
savaplug just has a preset amount of 'dimming' compromised between
working on *most* appliances, and saving electricity.

I've just had to replace the control pcb module on my 18 month old freezer,
the circuit board had quite a few integrated circuits on it (and cost
£53!). I assume it has some sort of control like this built in & I wondered
if using something like a Savaplug would actually do more harm than good if
used in conjunction with it ?

Nick

I use a timer plug set to go on and off every 15 minutes for 15 minutes and off
for a bit longer over night.
This lets the temp inside the freezer even out between compressor run cycles
and has saved about 30% per week so far with no reall effect on temp in the
freezer.
I live alone so don't open the door much any way.
I have verified the savings by using a plug that tells you how much power is
being used. and a thermometer to make sure the freezer stayed okay.
I think there is usually a large over run before the thermostate rcognises that
the freezer is already cold enough. by cycling the power on and off you cut
short a lot of these over runs.

Cost was about £5 for the timer socket.
)

IMM wrote:

From this website
http://www.msarch.co.uk/ecohome/tour.html


As the couple planned to invite lodgers, they needed a second
fridge/freezer, so naturally. They decided to find an energy-efficient and
ozone-friendly model. It was also fitted with a SavaPlug which saves a
further 20% on what is the most energy-intensive device in the house after
hot water and central heating


Where can these plugs be obtained, are they expensive, and do they really
save that amount of energy?

This house is being updated to near, or better, new house insulation
levels - consuming as little energy as possible. The e.g., in best example
in the country.

---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 18/09/2003