I've had a couple of threads here over the past year or so, and I just
cannot find out what is causing the problem still in my house.
Basically, our water supply is slimy, and contains black particle
'dirt' and at the moment even has small rapidly moving 'organisms'
swimming around, look like large protozoa (around 1-2 mm), if anyone
knows what they are. There is also other small transparent organic
material floating in there half the time too. The water has quite a
yellow cast to it most of the time also!

Our pressure is pretty high, I've had a leak detection expert out, he
says we don't have a leak. We have no real chlorine residual, this
could be causing the problem, along with poor maintenance. Our local
county council has tested the water twice last year, and despite not
sending me out the results, say it passes regs. I'm in Ireland, not
the UK, so thats the way it is here.

Having asked our neighbours, they seem to be blase about it, so I dont
know what the heck is actually the root cause. Possibly corroding
unlined cast iron mains, which are the staple in my region, but why
the onset of these horrible organisms?

I'm stumped...

On 16 Apr, 15:00, None wrote:
I've had a couple of threads here over the past year or so, and I just
cannot find out what is causing the problem still in my house.
Basically, our water supply is slimy, and contains black particle
'dirt' and at the moment even has small rapidly moving 'organisms'
swimming around, look like large protozoa (around 1-2 mm), if anyone
knows what they are. There is also other small transparent organic
material floating in there half the time too. The water has quite a
yellow cast to it most of the time also!

Our pressure is pretty high, I've had a leak detection expert out, he
says we don't have a leak. We have no real chlorine residual, this
could be causing the problem, along with poor maintenance. Our local
county council has tested the water twice last year, and despite not
sending me out the results, say it passes regs. I'm in Ireland, not
the UK, so thats the way it is here.

Having asked our neighbours, they seem to be blase about it, so I dont
know what the heck is actually the root cause. Possibly corroding
unlined cast iron mains, which are the staple in my region, but why
the onset of these horrible organisms?

I'm stumped...

Could be a crack/hole in your supply admitting silts and creepies -
how did the expert test for "leaks" exactly?

You could get a sample analysed yourself and get a professional
opinion - then blab to the papers if they don't fix it....

Jim

On Apr 16, 3:21 pm, jim wrote:
On 16 Apr, 15:00, None wrote:



I've had a couple of threads here over the past year or so, and I just
cannot find out what is causing the problem still in my house.
Basically, our water supply is slimy, and contains black particle
'dirt' and at the moment even has small rapidly moving 'organisms'
swimming around, look like large protozoa (around 1-2 mm), if anyone
knows what they are. There is also other small transparent organic
material floating in there half the time too. The water has quite a
yellow cast to it most of the time also!

Our pressure is pretty high, I've had a leak detection expert out, he
says we don't have a leak. We have no real chlorine residual, this
could be causing the problem, along with poor maintenance. Our local
county council has tested the water twice last year, and despite not
sending me out the results, say it passes regs. I'm in Ireland, not
the UK, so thats the way it is here.

Having asked our neighbours, they seem to be blase about it, so I dont
know what the heck is actually the root cause. Possibly corroding
unlined cast iron mains, which are the staple in my region, but why
the onset of these horrible organisms?

I'm stumped...

Could be a crack/hole in your supply admitting silts and creepies -
how did the expert test for "leaks" exactly?

You could get a sample analysed yourself and get a professional
opinion - then blab to the papers if they don't fix it....

Jim

The leak guy closed off the external stopcock for a bit, turned it
back on after a while saying that if there were a leak, he would
expect to see soil in there, there wasnt any. He also had various
gauges with him to test pressure flow etc. He said 'I'm not in the
business of turning down money, in my opinion you have no leak.' He
seemed very skeptical from the outset that we had one, as there were
no wet spots or any other indications.

Guess it will have to be a private lab sample then...

On 16 Apr, 16:30, None wrote:
On Apr 16, 3:21 pm, jim wrote:



On 16 Apr, 15:00, None wrote:

I've had a couple of threads here over the past year or so, and I just
cannot find out what is causing the problem still in my house.
Basically, our water supply is slimy, and contains black particle
'dirt' and at the moment even has small rapidly moving 'organisms'
swimming around, look like large protozoa (around 1-2 mm), if anyone
knows what they are. There is also other small transparent organic
material floating in there half the time too. The water has quite a
yellow cast to it most of the time also!

Our pressure is pretty high, I've had a leak detection expert out, he
says we don't have a leak. We have no real chlorine residual, this
could be causing the problem, along with poor maintenance. Our local
county council has tested the water twice last year, and despite not
sending me out the results, say it passes regs. I'm in Ireland, not
the UK, so thats the way it is here.

Having asked our neighbours, they seem to be blase about it, so I dont
know what the heck is actually the root cause. Possibly corroding
unlined cast iron mains, which are the staple in my region, but why
the onset of these horrible organisms?

I'm stumped...

Could be a crack/hole in your supply admitting silts and creepies -
how did the expert test for "leaks" exactly?

You could get a sample analysed yourself and get a professional
opinion - then blab to the papers if they don't fix it....

Jim

The leak guy closed off the external stopcock for a bit, turned it
back on after a while saying that if there were a leak, he would
expect to see soil in there, there wasnt any. He also had various
gauges with him to test pressure flow etc. He said 'I'm not in the
business of turning down money, in my opinion you have no leak.' He
seemed very skeptical from the outset that we had one, as there were
no wet spots or any other indications.

so was he testing for leaks inside the building? as opposed to on the
supply pipe to the stopcock?

Guess it will have to be a private lab sample then...

Another thought - assuming the grot comes out of all taps including
kitchen cold tap :- could you have some sort of water cistern/tank in
attic/loft that could be the source of the grot? perhaps some seasonal
activity disturbs general attic dusts, mortar etc into the tank and
also offers a breeding ground for creepies?
(turn off supply and turn on kitchen tap - if it still flows as
"normal" for morer than a few seconds you must have a tank
somewhere....)

in UK generally one would expect that the kitchen tap (at least) would
be fed direct from the supply *not* via a storage tank of any sort. If
there's grot from your kitchen tap and it's supplied direct from your
supply pipe then there *must* be a problem either in the supply pipe
to the stopcock *or* in the pipe from stopcock to kitchen tap....

cheers
jim

On Apr 16, 7:18 pm, jim wrote:
On 16 Apr, 16:30, None wrote:



On Apr 16, 3:21 pm, jim wrote:

On 16 Apr, 15:00, None wrote:

I've had a couple of threads here over the past year or so, and I just
cannot find out what is causing the problem still in my house.
Basically, our water supply is slimy, and contains black particle
'dirt' and at the moment even has small rapidly moving 'organisms'
swimming around, look like large protozoa (around 1-2 mm), if anyone
knows what they are. There is also other small transparent organic
material floating in there half the time too. The water has quite a
yellow cast to it most of the time also!

Our pressure is pretty high, I've had a leak detection expert out, he
says we don't have a leak. We have no real chlorine residual, this
could be causing the problem, along with poor maintenance. Our local
county council has tested the water twice last year, and despite not
sending me out the results, say it passes regs. I'm in Ireland, not
the UK, so thats the way it is here.

Having asked our neighbours, they seem to be blase about it, so I dont
know what the heck is actually the root cause. Possibly corroding
unlined cast iron mains, which are the staple in my region, but why
the onset of these horrible organisms?

I'm stumped...

Could be a crack/hole in your supply admitting silts and creepies -
how did the expert test for "leaks" exactly?

You could get a sample analysed yourself and get a professional
opinion - then blab to the papers if they don't fix it....

Jim

The leak guy closed off the external stopcock for a bit, turned it
back on after a while saying that if there were a leak, he would
expect to see soil in there, there wasnt any. He also had various
gauges with him to test pressure flow etc. He said 'I'm not in the
business of turning down money, in my opinion you have no leak.' He
seemed very skeptical from the outset that we had one, as there were
no wet spots or any other indications.

so was he testing for leaks inside the building? as opposed to on the
supply pipe to the stopcock?

Guess it will have to be a private lab sample then...

Another thought - assuming the grot comes out of all taps including
kitchen cold tap :- could you have some sort of water cistern/tank in
attic/loft that could be the source of the grot? perhaps some seasonal
activity disturbs general attic dusts, mortar etc into the tank and
also offers a breeding ground for creepies?
(turn off supply and turn on kitchen tap - if it still flows as
"normal" for morer than a few seconds you must have a tank
somewhere....)

in UK generally one would expect that the kitchen tap (at least) would
be fed direct from the supply *not* via a storage tank of any sort. If
there's grot from your kitchen tap and it's supplied direct from your
supply pipe then there *must* be a problem either in the supply pipe
to the stopcock *or* in the pipe from stopcock to kitchen tap....

cheers
jim

No, the kitchen tap is fed from the main alright, no doubt about that!
We have the same plumbing system as you English fellers. God, that
would be an oversight to end all oversights though.
Also, the guy was not testing for leaks inside the house, he was
testing for leaks on the pipe run between the external stopcock on the
footpath and the kitchen tap. Hope that clears that up.

None wrote:
I've had a couple of threads here over the past year or so, and I just
cannot find out what is causing the problem still in my house.
Basically, our water supply is slimy, and contains black particle
'dirt' and at the moment even has small rapidly moving 'organisms'
swimming around, look like large protozoa (around 1-2 mm), if anyone
knows what they are. There is also other small transparent organic
material floating in there half the time too. The water has quite a
yellow cast to it most of the time also!

Moving bits are NOT good!!

Our pressure is pretty high, I've had a leak detection expert out, he
says we don't have a leak. We have no real chlorine residual, this
could be causing the problem, along with poor maintenance. Our local
county council has tested the water twice last year, and despite not
sending me out the results, say it passes regs. I'm in Ireland, not
the UK, so thats the way it is here.

Having asked our neighbours, they seem to be blase about it, so I dont
know what the heck is actually the root cause. Possibly corroding
unlined cast iron mains, which are the staple in my region, but why
the onset of these horrible organisms?

I'm stumped...

To test for leaks yourself, you could get one of these
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=330226847408
connect it to your outside tap, assuming you have one, and turn the tap on.
This should then register the mains water pressure.
(gauge connector will probably connect to a washing machine tap too)

If you then make sure everything in the house is not calling for water, then
turn your main stopcock off in the house.
If the pressure drops, water is getting out somwhere.

If this is all OK, then open your stopcock in the house, and turn the one
off outside in the road, if it drops now, you have a leak between the house
and the road shut-off.

Toby..

On Apr 16, 10:27 pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
I've had a couple of threads here over the past year or so, and I just
cannot find out what is causing the problem still in my house.
Basically, our water supply is slimy, and contains black particle
'dirt' and at the moment even has small rapidly moving 'organisms'
swimming around, look like large protozoa (around 1-2 mm), if anyone
knows what they are. There is also other small transparent organic
material floating in there half the time too. The water has quite a
yellow cast to it most of the time also!

Moving bits are NOT good!!

Our pressure is pretty high, I've had a leak detection expert out, he
says we don't have a leak. We have no real chlorine residual, this
could be causing the problem, along with poor maintenance. Our local
county council has tested the water twice last year, and despite not
sending me out the results, say it passes regs. I'm in Ireland, not
the UK, so thats the way it is here.

Having asked our neighbours, they seem to be blase about it, so I dont
know what the heck is actually the root cause. Possibly corroding
unlined cast iron mains, which are the staple in my region, but why
the onset of these horrible organisms?

I'm stumped...

To test for leaks yourself, you could get one of thesehttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330226847408
connect it to your outside tap, assuming you have one, and turn the tap on.
This should then register the mains water pressure.
(gauge connector will probably connect to a washing machine tap too)

If you then make sure everything in the house is not calling for water, then
turn your main stopcock off in the house.
If the pressure drops, water is getting out somwhere.

If this is all OK, then open your stopcock in the house, and turn the one
off outside in the road, if it drops now, you have a leak between the house
and the road shut-off.

Toby..

Toby,

I think thats more or less what this guy did... though our washing
machine is outside in the shed, and would be the 'garden tap' point. I
dont think he tested the pressure from there. One other thing; I have
noticed that if the organic debris is present, its not in the water if
you run the tap for a more than a few seconds. If you run the mains
tap continuously, its not there. then, often when you turn it back on,
one of those green buggers is there, along with maybe some random
organic debris, but keep running the tap and no matter how many
glasses you fill up, nothing is there. Though the black particles are
more often than not present no matter what.

Argh indeed..

None wrote:

One other thing; I have
noticed that if the organic debris is present, its not in the water if
you run the tap for a more than a few seconds. If you run the mains
tap continuously, its not there. then, often when you turn it back on,
one of those green buggers is there, along with maybe some random
organic debris, but keep running the tap and no matter how many
glasses you fill up, nothing is there. Though the black particles are
more often than not present no matter what.

Is this perhaps indicating that the green stuff is actually
living in the pipework beyond the kitchen tap? Or maybe in the
supply pipe, with just the loosest bits being flushed out each
time?

Assuming the installation is stop tap - kitchen - bathroom -
header tank, do your observations differ at each point? What is
the state of the header tank? What do you find from the hot
water taps? Is there a dead leg in the pipework?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

"Chris J Dixon" wrote in message
...
None wrote:

One other thing; I have
noticed that if the organic debris is present, its not in the water if
you run the tap for a more than a few seconds. If you run the mains
tap continuously, its not there. then, often when you turn it back on,
one of those green buggers is there, along with maybe some random
organic debris, but keep running the tap and no matter how many
glasses you fill up, nothing is there. Though the black particles are
more often than not present no matter what.

Is this perhaps indicating that the green stuff is actually
living in the pipework beyond the kitchen tap? Or maybe in the
supply pipe, with just the loosest bits being flushed out each
time?

Assuming the installation is stop tap - kitchen - bathroom -
header tank, do your observations differ at each point? What is
the state of the header tank? What do you find from the hot
water taps? Is there a dead leg in the pipework?

Having followed this thread and watched the probable being discounted, I am
also coming to the suspicion there's a dead leg somewhere (old feed to
neighbouring property etc., or something). Water companies have pipe pingers
where you clip a transmitter to the pipe where it comes in the house and
detect the signals above the pipes outside. Might be worth mapping the pipe
and seeing if there are any unexpected legs?


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

On Apr 17, 3:44 pm, "Bob Mannix" wrote:
"Chris J Dixon" wrote in messagenews:97ne04l2fo6eh8u0k3un6e5cr4epioj8p3@4ax .com...



None wrote:

One other thing; I have
noticed that if the organic debris is present, its not in the water if
you run the tap for a more than a few seconds. If you run the mains
tap continuously, its not there. then, often when you turn it back on,
one of those green buggers is there, along with maybe some random
organic debris, but keep running the tap and no matter how many
glasses you fill up, nothing is there. Though the black particles are
more often than not present no matter what.

Is this perhaps indicating that the green stuff is actually
living in the pipework beyond the kitchen tap? Or maybe in the
supply pipe, with just the loosest bits being flushed out each
time?

Assuming the installation is stop tap - kitchen - bathroom -
header tank, do your observations differ at each point? What is
the state of the header tank? What do you find from the hot
water taps? Is there a dead leg in the pipework?

Having followed this thread and watched the probable being discounted, I am
also coming to the suspicion there's a dead leg somewhere (old feed to
neighbouring property etc., or something). Water companies have pipe pingers
where you clip a transmitter to the pipe where it comes in the house and
detect the signals above the pipes outside. Might be worth mapping the pipe
and seeing if there are any unexpected legs?

--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Ok, I think I finally know what these 'creatures' are. A water
engineer told me that sometimes Daphnia, or water fleas, can enter
into mains water on lower flow areas. They only count as an aesthetic
concern apparently. Do a Google image search for Daphnia, they look
just like what I am seeing, and the way the movement is described is
EXACTLY what I am seeing. Further to this, the egg clusters that come
from the females are black... this could explain why we have a problem
with black particles... I was hoping it was just manganese or
something such like. I am not sure about that part, but I'm certain
that the creatures are Daphnia... they are about 1mm - maybe 2mm in
size.

I dont know what pipe pingers are, I doubt we have them here, our
water is governed by local councils, not water companies. How would I
find out about the pipe run though? God, this is complicated .......

On Apr 17, 3:59 pm, None wrote:
On Apr 17, 3:44 pm, "Bob Mannix" wrote:



"Chris J Dixon" wrote in messagenews:97ne04l2fo6eh8u0k3un6e5cr4epioj8p3@4ax .com...

None wrote:

One other thing; I have
noticed that if the organic debris is present, its not in the water if
you run the tap for a more than a few seconds. If you run the mains
tap continuously, its not there. then, often when you turn it back on,
one of those green buggers is there, along with maybe some random
organic debris, but keep running the tap and no matter how many
glasses you fill up, nothing is there. Though the black particles are
more often than not present no matter what.

Is this perhaps indicating that the green stuff is actually
living in the pipework beyond the kitchen tap? Or maybe in the
supply pipe, with just the loosest bits being flushed out each
time?

Assuming the installation is stop tap - kitchen - bathroom -
header tank, do your observations differ at each point? What is
the state of the header tank? What do you find from the hot
water taps? Is there a dead leg in the pipework?

Having followed this thread and watched the probable being discounted, I am
also coming to the suspicion there's a dead leg somewhere (old feed to
neighbouring property etc., or something). Water companies have pipe pingers
where you clip a transmitter to the pipe where it comes in the house and
detect the signals above the pipes outside. Might be worth mapping the pipe
and seeing if there are any unexpected legs?

--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Ok, I think I finally know what these 'creatures' are. A water
engineer told me that sometimes Daphnia, or water fleas, can enter
into mains water on lower flow areas. They only count as an aesthetic
concern apparently. Do a Google image search for Daphnia, they look
just like what I am seeing, and the way the movement is described is
EXACTLY what I am seeing. Further to this, the egg clusters that come
from the females are black... this could explain why we have a problem
with black particles... I was hoping it was just manganese or
something such like. I am not sure about that part, but I'm certain
that the creatures are Daphnia... they are about 1mm - maybe 2mm in
size.

I dont know what pipe pingers are, I doubt we have them here, our
water is governed by local councils, not water companies. How would I
find out about the pipe run though? God, this is complicated .......

And in the last couple of hours when we run the tap we are getting
loads of black particles in the supply. Very bad situation here, I
dont understand why this has to happen.

"None" wrote in message
...
On Apr 17, 3:59 pm, None wrote:
On Apr 17, 3:44 pm, "Bob Mannix" wrote:



"Chris J Dixon" wrote in
messagenews:97ne04l2fo6eh8u0k3un6e5cr4epioj8p3@4ax .com...

None wrote:

One other thing; I have
noticed that if the organic debris is present, its not in the water
if
you run the tap for a more than a few seconds. If you run the mains
tap continuously, its not there. then, often when you turn it back
on,
one of those green buggers is there, along with maybe some random
organic debris, but keep running the tap and no matter how many
glasses you fill up, nothing is there. Though the black particles are
more often than not present no matter what.

Is this perhaps indicating that the green stuff is actually
living in the pipework beyond the kitchen tap? Or maybe in the
supply pipe, with just the loosest bits being flushed out each
time?

Assuming the installation is stop tap - kitchen - bathroom -
header tank, do your observations differ at each point? What is
the state of the header tank? What do you find from the hot
water taps? Is there a dead leg in the pipework?

Having followed this thread and watched the probable being discounted,
I am
also coming to the suspicion there's a dead leg somewhere (old feed to
neighbouring property etc., or something). Water companies have pipe
pingers
where you clip a transmitter to the pipe where it comes in the house
and
detect the signals above the pipes outside. Might be worth mapping the
pipe
and seeing if there are any unexpected legs?

--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Ok, I think I finally know what these 'creatures' are. A water
engineer told me that sometimes Daphnia, or water fleas, can enter
into mains water on lower flow areas. They only count as an aesthetic
concern apparently. Do a Google image search for Daphnia, they look
just like what I am seeing, and the way the movement is described is
EXACTLY what I am seeing. Further to this, the egg clusters that come
from the females are black... this could explain why we have a problem
with black particles... I was hoping it was just manganese or
something such like. I am not sure about that part, but I'm certain
that the creatures are Daphnia... they are about 1mm - maybe 2mm in
size.

I dont know what pipe pingers are, I doubt we have them here, our
water is governed by local councils, not water companies. How would I
find out about the pipe run though? God, this is complicated .......

And in the last couple of hours when we run the tap we are getting
loads of black particles in the supply. Very bad situation here, I
dont understand why this has to happen.

Everything has an explanation, you just haven't found it yet! I suspect some
digging and inspection of the incoming main may be required though and
perhaps an independent assessment from someone local - they may even have
seen similar.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

None wrote:
And in the last couple of hours when we run the tap we are getting
loads of black particles in the supply. Very bad situation here, I
dont understand why this has to happen.

Are you *sure* that you're on a mains supply and not a private pumped well
(perhaps shared with a few houses locally)? Might explain the lack of
chlorine and multitude of bugs.

(Don't mean this to sound patronising, just want to know if you've
considered the possibility)

Tim

On Apr 18, 7:28 am, "Bob Mannix" wrote:
"None" wrote in message

...



On Apr 17, 3:59 pm, None wrote:
On Apr 17, 3:44 pm, "Bob Mannix" wrote:

"Chris J Dixon" wrote in
messagenews:97ne04l2fo6eh8u0k3un6e5cr4epioj8p3@4ax .com...

None wrote:

One other thing; I have
noticed that if the organic debris is present, its not in the water
if
you run the tap for a more than a few seconds. If you run the mains
tap continuously, its not there. then, often when you turn it back
on,
one of those green buggers is there, along with maybe some random
organic debris, but keep running the tap and no matter how many
glasses you fill up, nothing is there. Though the black particles are
more often than not present no matter what.

Is this perhaps indicating that the green stuff is actually
living in the pipework beyond the kitchen tap? Or maybe in the
supply pipe, with just the loosest bits being flushed out each
time?

Assuming the installation is stop tap - kitchen - bathroom -
header tank, do your observations differ at each point? What is
the state of the header tank? What do you find from the hot
water taps? Is there a dead leg in the pipework?

Having followed this thread and watched the probable being discounted,
I am
also coming to the suspicion there's a dead leg somewhere (old feed to
neighbouring property etc., or something). Water companies have pipe
pingers
where you clip a transmitter to the pipe where it comes in the house
and
detect the signals above the pipes outside. Might be worth mapping the
pipe
and seeing if there are any unexpected legs?

--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Ok, I think I finally know what these 'creatures' are. A water
engineer told me that sometimes Daphnia, or water fleas, can enter
into mains water on lower flow areas. They only count as an aesthetic
concern apparently. Do a Google image search for Daphnia, they look
just like what I am seeing, and the way the movement is described is
EXACTLY what I am seeing. Further to this, the egg clusters that come
from the females are black... this could explain why we have a problem
with black particles... I was hoping it was just manganese or
something such like. I am not sure about that part, but I'm certain
that the creatures are Daphnia... they are about 1mm - maybe 2mm in
size.

I dont know what pipe pingers are, I doubt we have them here, our
water is governed by local councils, not water companies. How would I
find out about the pipe run though? God, this is complicated .......

And in the last couple of hours when we run the tap we are getting
loads of black particles in the supply. Very bad situation here, I
dont understand why this has to happen.

Everything has an explanation, you just haven't found it yet! I suspect some
digging and inspection of the incoming main may be required though and
perhaps an independent assessment from someone local - they may even have
seen similar.

--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

I really think that the problem is mains related. We only get these
water fleas entering the supply during the daytime when there is a lot
of flow in the mains. If it were our service pipe I would expect their
presence to be constant. I also left the mains kitchen tap running for
a long time yesterday to see if that would help, and it only seemed to
bring a lot of dirt towards us from the mains. I was told that we are
on a two-way directional feed on my road, so if demand for the water
is high where we are, then it is likely that we will bring sediment
etc towards us from both sides and into our supply.

The amount of black stuff is much less now that some time has passed.
The water has always been poor for us, and we have no chlorine
residual, so I will have to get on to the water department next week
and ask them to air scour the inside of the cast iron mains on the
road. There is always a colour to the water, as well as a slimy feel
and black particles, but I let it go up to now. Last year, we were
having similar problems, and the water people flushed the mains and it
made a HUGE difference for a while before reverting back to its state.
I guess something more drastic could be needed than mere flushing.

On Apr 18, 7:28 am, "Bob Mannix" wrote:
"None" wrote in message

...



On Apr 17, 3:59 pm, None wrote:
On Apr 17, 3:44 pm, "Bob Mannix" wrote:

"Chris J Dixon" wrote in
messagenews:97ne04l2fo6eh8u0k3un6e5cr4epioj8p3@4ax .com...

None wrote:

One other thing; I have
noticed that if the organic debris is present, its not in the water
if
you run the tap for a more than a few seconds. If you run the mains
tap continuously, its not there. then, often when you turn it back
on,
one of those green buggers is there, along with maybe some random
organic debris, but keep running the tap and no matter how many
glasses you fill up, nothing is there. Though the black particles are
more often than not present no matter what.

Is this perhaps indicating that the green stuff is actually
living in the pipework beyond the kitchen tap? Or maybe in the
supply pipe, with just the loosest bits being flushed out each
time?

Assuming the installation is stop tap - kitchen - bathroom -
header tank, do your observations differ at each point? What is
the state of the header tank? What do you find from the hot
water taps? Is there a dead leg in the pipework?

Having followed this thread and watched the probable being discounted,
I am
also coming to the suspicion there's a dead leg somewhere (old feed to
neighbouring property etc., or something). Water companies have pipe
pingers
where you clip a transmitter to the pipe where it comes in the house
and
detect the signals above the pipes outside. Might be worth mapping the
pipe
and seeing if there are any unexpected legs?

--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Ok, I think I finally know what these 'creatures' are. A water
engineer told me that sometimes Daphnia, or water fleas, can enter
into mains water on lower flow areas. They only count as an aesthetic
concern apparently. Do a Google image search for Daphnia, they look
just like what I am seeing, and the way the movement is described is
EXACTLY what I am seeing. Further to this, the egg clusters that come
from the females are black... this could explain why we have a problem
with black particles... I was hoping it was just manganese or
something such like. I am not sure about that part, but I'm certain
that the creatures are Daphnia... they are about 1mm - maybe 2mm in
size.

I dont know what pipe pingers are, I doubt we have them here, our
water is governed by local councils, not water companies. How would I
find out about the pipe run though? God, this is complicated .......

And in the last couple of hours when we run the tap we are getting
loads of black particles in the supply. Very bad situation here, I
dont understand why this has to happen.

Everything has an explanation, you just haven't found it yet! I suspect some
digging and inspection of the incoming main may be required though and
perhaps an independent assessment from someone local - they may even have
seen similar.

--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

d

On Apr 18, 9:50 am, "Tim Downie"
wrote:
None wrote:
And in the last couple of hours when we run the tap we are getting
loads of black particles in the supply. Very bad situation here, I
dont understand why this has to happen.

Are you *sure* that you're on a mains supply and not a private pumped well
(perhaps shared with a few houses locally)? Might explain the lack of
chlorine and multitude of bugs.

(Don't mean this to sound patronising, just want to know if you've
considered the possibility)

Tim

Haha, no... I live in a Dublin suburb, in a vey built up area, so
there's no chance of that. By way of confirmation, I was told some
time ago that we are on a heavily used mains supply. And we do have a
trace of chlorine on some rare occasions, its just that the iron pipes
must be in such a bad condition around us that the corrosion and
biofilms are using it up mostly. There must also be a real lack of
chlorine boosters around the supply area where we are. Its all very
haphazard really.

Last year I asked them to flush the mains after having years of poor
slightly discoloured water, and the effect was HUGE! The water became
absolutely crystal clear for a few days as I recall. It also felt so
much cleaner on the skin. It eventually went back to a bad state, but
it just goes to show you. The neighbours around us NEVER complain
about it, and have no desire to get tangled up in arguments with the
water depot. Unfortunately, the local water depot is a hive of
ignorant and disrespectful morons who have no desire to assist
consumer complaints. They will flush your mains once if you have an
issue, making it appear better for a while. But because they only
flush one mains on a road, it has no long term benefit. They won't
countenance the prospect of more aggressive cleaning methods unless
water tests show up high levels of coliforms. To them, everything else
is explainable by way of shrugs and the words 'aesthetic problem
only.'

The water has gotten so bad though that I will have to call them next
week. I am pretty much ruling out my service pipe as being the problem
for the moment. I need them to understand the gravity of the problem,
and I have bottled evidence of these water fleas and other detritus if
they need that. If they carry out a proper form of scouring, and the
effect is non-existent (highly unlikely) then I will fork out and
replace the service pipe.

None wrote:
I've had a couple of threads here over the past year or so, and I just
cannot find out what is causing the problem still in my house.
Basically, our water supply is slimy, and contains black particle
'dirt' and at the moment even has small rapidly moving 'organisms'
swimming around, look like large protozoa (around 1-2 mm), if anyone
knows what they are. There is also other small transparent organic
material floating in there half the time too. The water has quite a
yellow cast to it most of the time also!

Our pressure is pretty high, I've had a leak detection expert out, he
says we don't have a leak. We have no real chlorine residual, this
could be causing the problem, along with poor maintenance. Our local
county council has tested the water twice last year, and despite not
sending me out the results, say it passes regs. I'm in Ireland, not
the UK, so thats the way it is here.

Having asked our neighbours, they seem to be blase about it, so I dont
know what the heck is actually the root cause. Possibly corroding
unlined cast iron mains, which are the staple in my region, but why
the onset of these horrible organisms?

I'm stumped...

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_.../en/piped6.pdf

Hi None, I've been away for a few days hence the late reply. The above
reference could be of help.

It really does sound like a corroded and biofilmed main to me. And the low
chlorine provides just the conditions that they need to thrive. Balance
point and dead legs also help them.

You may note that airscouring is mentioned - just as I did in a previous
post but it sounds to me that this will only provide temporary relief.

Dosing with pyrethroids gives longer relief but I think the key is to ensure
that there is a free chlorine in the water and relining of the main.

Since you are having no joy with the Water Department, how about inviting
the local press to have a look at the "free added protein" that the Water
Dept is providing you?

On Apr 18, 9:39 pm, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
I've had a couple of threads here over the past year or so, and I just
cannot find out what is causing the problem still in my house.
Basically, our water supply is slimy, and contains black particle
'dirt' and at the moment even has small rapidly moving 'organisms'
swimming around, look like large protozoa (around 1-2 mm), if anyone
knows what they are. There is also other small transparent organic
material floating in there half the time too. The water has quite a
yellow cast to it most of the time also!

Our pressure is pretty high, I've had a leak detection expert out, he
says we don't have a leak. We have no real chlorine residual, this
could be causing the problem, along with poor maintenance. Our local
county council has tested the water twice last year, and despite not
sending me out the results, say it passes regs. I'm in Ireland, not
the UK, so thats the way it is here.

Having asked our neighbours, they seem to be blase about it, so I dont
know what the heck is actually the root cause. Possibly corroding
unlined cast iron mains, which are the staple in my region, but why
the onset of these horrible organisms?

I'm stumped...

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_.../en/piped6.pdf

Hi None, I've been away for a few days hence the late reply. The above
reference could be of help.

It really does sound like a corroded and biofilmed main to me. And the low
chlorine provides just the conditions that they need to thrive. Balance
point and dead legs also help them.

You may note that airscouring is mentioned - just as I did in a previous
post but it sounds to me that this will only provide temporary relief.

Dosing with pyrethroids gives longer relief but I think the key is to ensure
that there is a free chlorine in the water and relining of the main.

Since you are having no joy with the Water Department, how about inviting
the local press to have a look at the "free added protein" that the Water
Dept is providing you?

Thanks Clot, would you believe another engineer pointed me to that
exact page last night, and I read through it. Very informative indeed.
It seems to describe exactly what we're going through here, and makes
me determined to do what I can to ease things. Only thing is, on all
these manuals, they always describe the lowest point of chlorine that
has been commonly dealt with as something like 0.08 mg/l... I mean
we're lucky if it ever rises to, say, 0.02mg! I realise that no matter
what, the conditions will never be ideal, I just want to improve
things. If it is a lone fight, the best I can do is get them to air
scour... maybe. Anyway, considering that no maintenance is ever done
around here, it might actually have more of an effect than one may
think.

Relining would be the best, but they didnt listen to me last year, and
wont either this. So I will put pressure on them to air scour. As for
getting the press involved, that is something I would be hugely
reluctant to do. For one thing, if they asked the other neighbours,
they would contradict me! They're quite elderly on both sides of us,
and have no issue with the water. It must be the same water as us, but
hey, whatever. Another is that with my luck, the journos would come
over to look at the supply in our kitchen, and it would run clear! It
can change from one hour to the next. Sigh.

On Apr 17, 3:59*pm, None wrote:
Ok, I think I finally know what these 'creatures' are. A water
engineer told me that sometimes Daphnia, or water fleas, can enter
into mains water on lower flow areas. They only count as an aesthetic
concern apparently. Do a Google image search for Daphnia, they look
just like what I am seeing, and the way the movement is described is
EXACTLY what I am seeing.

Goldfish LOVE daphnia!

Be glad there aren't tubifex worms coming out of the tap...

cheers,
Pete.

None wrote:
On Apr 18, 9:39 pm, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
I've had a couple of threads here over the past year or so, and I
just cannot find out what is causing the problem still in my house.
Basically, our water supply is slimy, and contains black particle
'dirt' and at the moment even has small rapidly moving 'organisms'
swimming around, look like large protozoa (around 1-2 mm), if anyone
knows what they are. There is also other small transparent organic
material floating in there half the time too. The water has quite a
yellow cast to it most of the time also!

Our pressure is pretty high, I've had a leak detection expert out,
he says we don't have a leak. We have no real chlorine residual,
this could be causing the problem, along with poor maintenance. Our
local county council has tested the water twice last year, and
despite not sending me out the results, say it passes regs. I'm in
Ireland, not the UK, so thats the way it is here.

Having asked our neighbours, they seem to be blase about it, so I
dont know what the heck is actually the root cause. Possibly
corroding unlined cast iron mains, which are the staple in my
region, but why the onset of these horrible organisms?

I'm stumped...

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_.../en/piped6.pdf

Hi None, I've been away for a few days hence the late reply. The
above reference could be of help.

It really does sound like a corroded and biofilmed main to me. And
the low chlorine provides just the conditions that they need to
thrive. Balance point and dead legs also help them.

You may note that airscouring is mentioned - just as I did in a
previous post but it sounds to me that this will only provide
temporary relief.

Dosing with pyrethroids gives longer relief but I think the key is
to ensure that there is a free chlorine in the water and relining of
the main.

Since you are having no joy with the Water Department, how about
inviting the local press to have a look at the "free added protein"
that the Water Dept is providing you?

Thanks Clot, would you believe another engineer pointed me to that
exact page last night, and I read through it. Very informative indeed.
It seems to describe exactly what we're going through here, and makes
me determined to do what I can to ease things. Only thing is, on all
these manuals, they always describe the lowest point of chlorine that
has been commonly dealt with as something like 0.08 mg/l... I mean
we're lucky if it ever rises to, say, 0.02mg! I realise that no matter
what, the conditions will never be ideal, I just want to improve
things. If it is a lone fight, the best I can do is get them to air
scour... maybe. Anyway, considering that no maintenance is ever done
around here, it might actually have more of an effect than one may
think.

Relining would be the best, but they didnt listen to me last year, and
wont either this. So I will put pressure on them to air scour. As for
getting the press involved, that is something I would be hugely
reluctant to do. For one thing, if they asked the other neighbours,
they would contradict me! They're quite elderly on both sides of us,
and have no issue with the water. It must be the same water as us, but
hey, whatever. Another is that with my luck, the journos would come
over to look at the supply in our kitchen, and it would run clear! It
can change from one hour to the next. Sigh.

Like taking the car to a garage with an intermittent fault!

The fact that it can change so rapidly does suggest you are on a balance
point!

On Apr 18, 11:27 pm, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
On Apr 18, 9:39 pm, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
I've had a couple of threads here over the past year or so, and I
just cannot find out what is causing the problem still in my house.
Basically, our water supply is slimy, and contains black particle
'dirt' and at the moment even has small rapidly moving 'organisms'
swimming around, look like large protozoa (around 1-2 mm), if anyone
knows what they are. There is also other small transparent organic
material floating in there half the time too. The water has quite a
yellow cast to it most of the time also!

Our pressure is pretty high, I've had a leak detection expert out,
he says we don't have a leak. We have no real chlorine residual,
this could be causing the problem, along with poor maintenance. Our
local county council has tested the water twice last year, and
despite not sending me out the results, say it passes regs. I'm in
Ireland, not the UK, so thats the way it is here.

Having asked our neighbours, they seem to be blase about it, so I
dont know what the heck is actually the root cause. Possibly
corroding unlined cast iron mains, which are the staple in my
region, but why the onset of these horrible organisms?

I'm stumped...

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_.../en/piped6.pdf

Hi None, I've been away for a few days hence the late reply. The
above reference could be of help.

It really does sound like a corroded and biofilmed main to me. And
the low chlorine provides just the conditions that they need to
thrive. Balance point and dead legs also help them.

You may note that airscouring is mentioned - just as I did in a
previous post but it sounds to me that this will only provide
temporary relief.

Dosing with pyrethroids gives longer relief but I think the key is
to ensure that there is a free chlorine in the water and relining of
the main.

Since you are having no joy with the Water Department, how about
inviting the local press to have a look at the "free added protein"
that the Water Dept is providing you?

Thanks Clot, would you believe another engineer pointed me to that
exact page last night, and I read through it. Very informative indeed.
It seems to describe exactly what we're going through here, and makes
me determined to do what I can to ease things. Only thing is, on all
these manuals, they always describe the lowest point of chlorine that
has been commonly dealt with as something like 0.08 mg/l... I mean
we're lucky if it ever rises to, say, 0.02mg! I realise that no matter
what, the conditions will never be ideal, I just want to improve
things. If it is a lone fight, the best I can do is get them to air
scour... maybe. Anyway, considering that no maintenance is ever done
around here, it might actually have more of an effect than one may
think.

Relining would be the best, but they didnt listen to me last year, and
wont either this. So I will put pressure on them to air scour. As for
getting the press involved, that is something I would be hugely
reluctant to do. For one thing, if they asked the other neighbours,
they would contradict me! They're quite elderly on both sides of us,
and have no issue with the water. It must be the same water as us, but
hey, whatever. Another is that with my luck, the journos would come
over to look at the supply in our kitchen, and it would run clear! It
can change from one hour to the next. Sigh.

Like taking the car to a garage with an intermittent fault!

The fact that it can change so rapidly does suggest you are on a balance
point!

Yeah, but with the way the water circulates in the neighbourhood, I
would say there are several 'balance points'.... the road behind our
one is the same setup, two/three way feed, fed by the big cast iron
main on the main road. Well, I will do what I can next week. The last
time I rang the water department in December, the chief engineer there
told me to 'wait a month to see if the problem settles.' I said that I
knew it would do nothing, but sure, why not. Before he said that, he
mentioned that they could jet the main as a last resort or something
if the problem persisted. Since back then I didnt know what was the
underlying cause, I wanted to leave it until I really knew how to
articulate it to them.... I reckon I do now. I think the recurrance of
these water fleas pretty much seals the deal anyway!

None wrote:
On Apr 18, 11:27 pm, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
On Apr 18, 9:39 pm, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
I've had a couple of threads here over the past year or so, and I
just cannot find out what is causing the problem still in my
house. Basically, our water supply is slimy, and contains black
particle 'dirt' and at the moment even has small rapidly moving
'organisms' swimming around, look like large protozoa (around 1-2
mm), if anyone knows what they are. There is also other small
transparent organic material floating in there half the time too.
The water has quite a yellow cast to it most of the time also!

Our pressure is pretty high, I've had a leak detection expert out,
he says we don't have a leak. We have no real chlorine residual,
this could be causing the problem, along with poor maintenance.
Our local county council has tested the water twice last year, and
despite not sending me out the results, say it passes regs. I'm in
Ireland, not the UK, so thats the way it is here.

Having asked our neighbours, they seem to be blase about it, so I
dont know what the heck is actually the root cause. Possibly
corroding unlined cast iron mains, which are the staple in my
region, but why the onset of these horrible organisms?

I'm stumped...

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_.../en/piped6.pdf

Hi None, I've been away for a few days hence the late reply. The
above reference could be of help.

It really does sound like a corroded and biofilmed main to me. And
the low chlorine provides just the conditions that they need to
thrive. Balance point and dead legs also help them.

You may note that airscouring is mentioned - just as I did in a
previous post but it sounds to me that this will only provide
temporary relief.

Dosing with pyrethroids gives longer relief but I think the key is
to ensure that there is a free chlorine in the water and relining
of the main.

Since you are having no joy with the Water Department, how about
inviting the local press to have a look at the "free added protein"
that the Water Dept is providing you?

Thanks Clot, would you believe another engineer pointed me to that
exact page last night, and I read through it. Very informative
indeed. It seems to describe exactly what we're going through here,
and makes me determined to do what I can to ease things. Only thing
is, on all these manuals, they always describe the lowest point of
chlorine that has been commonly dealt with as something like 0.08
mg/l... I mean we're lucky if it ever rises to, say, 0.02mg! I
realise that no matter what, the conditions will never be ideal, I
just want to improve things. If it is a lone fight, the best I can
do is get them to air scour... maybe. Anyway, considering that no
maintenance is ever done around here, it might actually have more
of an effect than one may think.

Relining would be the best, but they didnt listen to me last year,
and wont either this. So I will put pressure on them to air scour.
As for getting the press involved, that is something I would be
hugely reluctant to do. For one thing, if they asked the other
neighbours, they would contradict me! They're quite elderly on both
sides of us, and have no issue with the water. It must be the same
water as us, but hey, whatever. Another is that with my luck, the
journos would come over to look at the supply in our kitchen, and
it would run clear! It can change from one hour to the next. Sigh.

Like taking the car to a garage with an intermittent fault!

The fact that it can change so rapidly does suggest you are on a
balance point!

Yeah, but with the way the water circulates in the neighbourhood, I
would say there are several 'balance points'.... the road behind our
one is the same setup, two/three way feed, fed by the big cast iron
main on the main road. Well, I will do what I can next week. The last
time I rang the water department in December, the chief engineer there
told me to 'wait a month to see if the problem settles.' I said that I
knew it would do nothing, but sure, why not. Before he said that, he
mentioned that they could jet the main as a last resort or something
if the problem persisted. Since back then I didnt know what was the
underlying cause, I wanted to leave it until I really knew how to
articulate it to them.... I reckon I do now. I think the recurrance of
these water fleas pretty much seals the deal anyway!

I wish you good luck. I've visited the City and stayed in various locations
both in the centre of town and in the growing outskirts numerous times in
the 90s and not noticed a chlorine odour to tapwater but never felt
uncomfortable about drinking it.

There is however, the Big Picture. It would seem, from the link below,
likely that Stillorgan S.R. is still not covered with plenty of opportunity
for food to get into the city's mains system, or only recently completed!
Look at page 8.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publication...d,15344,en.pdf

On Apr 19, 1:26 am, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
On Apr 18, 11:27 pm, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
On Apr 18, 9:39 pm, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
I've had a couple of threads here over the past year or so, and I
just cannot find out what is causing the problem still in my
house. Basically, our water supply is slimy, and contains black
particle 'dirt' and at the moment even has small rapidly moving
'organisms' swimming around, look like large protozoa (around 1-2
mm), if anyone knows what they are. There is also other small
transparent organic material floating in there half the time too.
The water has quite a yellow cast to it most of the time also!

Our pressure is pretty high, I've had a leak detection expert out,
he says we don't have a leak. We have no real chlorine residual,
this could be causing the problem, along with poor maintenance.
Our local county council has tested the water twice last year, and
despite not sending me out the results, say it passes regs. I'm in
Ireland, not the UK, so thats the way it is here.

Having asked our neighbours, they seem to be blase about it, so I
dont know what the heck is actually the root cause. Possibly
corroding unlined cast iron mains, which are the staple in my
region, but why the onset of these horrible organisms?

I'm stumped...

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_.../en/piped6.pdf

Hi None, I've been away for a few days hence the late reply. The
above reference could be of help.

It really does sound like a corroded and biofilmed main to me. And
the low chlorine provides just the conditions that they need to
thrive. Balance point and dead legs also help them.

You may note that airscouring is mentioned - just as I did in a
previous post but it sounds to me that this will only provide
temporary relief.

Dosing with pyrethroids gives longer relief but I think the key is
to ensure that there is a free chlorine in the water and relining
of the main.

Since you are having no joy with the Water Department, how about
inviting the local press to have a look at the "free added protein"
that the Water Dept is providing you?

Thanks Clot, would you believe another engineer pointed me to that
exact page last night, and I read through it. Very informative
indeed. It seems to describe exactly what we're going through here,
and makes me determined to do what I can to ease things. Only thing
is, on all these manuals, they always describe the lowest point of
chlorine that has been commonly dealt with as something like 0.08
mg/l... I mean we're lucky if it ever rises to, say, 0.02mg! I
realise that no matter what, the conditions will never be ideal, I
just want to improve things. If it is a lone fight, the best I can
do is get them to air scour... maybe. Anyway, considering that no
maintenance is ever done around here, it might actually have more
of an effect than one may think.

Relining would be the best, but they didnt listen to me last year,
and wont either this. So I will put pressure on them to air scour.
As for getting the press involved, that is something I would be
hugely reluctant to do. For one thing, if they asked the other
neighbours, they would contradict me! They're quite elderly on both
sides of us, and have no issue with the water. It must be the same
water as us, but hey, whatever. Another is that with my luck, the
journos would come over to look at the supply in our kitchen, and
it would run clear! It can change from one hour to the next. Sigh.

Like taking the car to a garage with an intermittent fault!

The fact that it can change so rapidly does suggest you are on a
balance point!

Yeah, but with the way the water circulates in the neighbourhood, I
would say there are several 'balance points'.... the road behind our
one is the same setup, two/three way feed, fed by the big cast iron
main on the main road. Well, I will do what I can next week. The last
time I rang the water department in December, the chief engineer there
told me to 'wait a month to see if the problem settles.' I said that I
knew it would do nothing, but sure, why not. Before he said that, he
mentioned that they could jet the main as a last resort or something
if the problem persisted. Since back then I didnt know what was the
underlying cause, I wanted to leave it until I really knew how to
articulate it to them.... I reckon I do now. I think the recurrance of
these water fleas pretty much seals the deal anyway!

I wish you good luck. I've visited the City and stayed in various locations
both in the centre of town and in the growing outskirts numerous times in
the 90s and not noticed a chlorine odour to tapwater but never felt
uncomfortable about drinking it.

There is however, the Big Picture. It would seem, from the link below,
likely that Stillorgan S.R. is still not covered with plenty of opportunity
for food to get into the city's mains system, or only recently completed!
Look at page 8.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publication...r/FileDownLoad,...

We definitely don't believe in heavy chlorination here apparently.
Which is all well and good but for those of us far away from
chlorination points. I was told that we are fed directly from the
Vartry reservoir in Co. Wicklow, which passes through a service
reservoir in Rathmichael, which then feeds us. So the Stillorgan
reservoir is not used for my area it seems. But Im pretty sure most of
our service reservoirs are uncovered anyway. We're way behind here on
these things.

I have a feeling that a proper jet through our main will improve
matters a fair bit, at least for a while. And if it does, I can point
this out to them so that they know I was right! Anyhow, thanks for all
the advice from your good self, I think its been about a year now that
Ive been posting here about this....

None wrote:
On Apr 19, 1:26 am, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
On Apr 18, 11:27 pm, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
On Apr 18, 9:39 pm, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
I've had a couple of threads here over the past year or so, and
I just cannot find out what is causing the problem still in my
house. Basically, our water supply is slimy, and contains black
particle 'dirt' and at the moment even has small rapidly moving
'organisms' swimming around, look like large protozoa (around
1-2 mm), if anyone knows what they are. There is also other
small transparent organic material floating in there half the
time too. The water has quite a yellow cast to it most of the
time also!

Our pressure is pretty high, I've had a leak detection expert
out, he says we don't have a leak. We have no real chlorine
residual, this could be causing the problem, along with poor
maintenance. Our local county council has tested the water
twice last year, and despite not sending me out the results,
say it passes regs. I'm in Ireland, not the UK, so thats the
way it is here.

Having asked our neighbours, they seem to be blase about it, so
I dont know what the heck is actually the root cause. Possibly
corroding unlined cast iron mains, which are the staple in my
region, but why the onset of these horrible organisms?

I'm stumped...

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_.../en/piped6.pdf

Hi None, I've been away for a few days hence the late reply. The
above reference could be of help.

It really does sound like a corroded and biofilmed main to me.
And the low chlorine provides just the conditions that they need
to thrive. Balance point and dead legs also help them.

You may note that airscouring is mentioned - just as I did in a
previous post but it sounds to me that this will only provide
temporary relief.

Dosing with pyrethroids gives longer relief but I think the key
is to ensure that there is a free chlorine in the water and
relining of the main.

Since you are having no joy with the Water Department, how about
inviting the local press to have a look at the "free added
protein" that the Water Dept is providing you?

Thanks Clot, would you believe another engineer pointed me to that
exact page last night, and I read through it. Very informative
indeed. It seems to describe exactly what we're going through
here, and makes me determined to do what I can to ease things.
Only thing is, on all these manuals, they always describe the
lowest point of chlorine that has been commonly dealt with as
something like 0.08 mg/l... I mean we're lucky if it ever rises
to, say, 0.02mg! I realise that no matter what, the conditions
will never be ideal, I just want to improve things. If it is a
lone fight, the best I can do is get them to air scour... maybe.
Anyway, considering that no maintenance is ever done around here,
it might actually have more of an effect than one may think.

Relining would be the best, but they didnt listen to me last year,
and wont either this. So I will put pressure on them to air scour.
As for getting the press involved, that is something I would be
hugely reluctant to do. For one thing, if they asked the other
neighbours, they would contradict me! They're quite elderly on
both sides of us, and have no issue with the water. It must be
the same water as us, but hey, whatever. Another is that with my
luck, the journos would come over to look at the supply in our
kitchen, and it would run clear! It can change from one hour to
the next. Sigh.

Like taking the car to a garage with an intermittent fault!

The fact that it can change so rapidly does suggest you are on a
balance point!

Yeah, but with the way the water circulates in the neighbourhood, I
would say there are several 'balance points'.... the road behind our
one is the same setup, two/three way feed, fed by the big cast iron
main on the main road. Well, I will do what I can next week. The
last time I rang the water department in December, the chief
engineer there told me to 'wait a month to see if the problem
settles.' I said that I knew it would do nothing, but sure, why
not. Before he said that, he mentioned that they could jet the main
as a last resort or something if the problem persisted. Since back
then I didnt know what was the underlying cause, I wanted to leave
it until I really knew how to articulate it to them.... I reckon I
do now. I think the recurrance of these water fleas pretty much
seals the deal anyway!

I wish you good luck. I've visited the City and stayed in various
locations both in the centre of town and in the growing outskirts
numerous times in the 90s and not noticed a chlorine odour to
tapwater but never felt uncomfortable about drinking it.

There is however, the Big Picture. It would seem, from the link
below, likely that Stillorgan S.R. is still not covered with plenty
of opportunity for food to get into the city's mains system, or only
recently completed! Look at page 8.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publication...r/FileDownLoad,...

We definitely don't believe in heavy chlorination here apparently.
Which is all well and good but for those of us far away from
chlorination points. I was told that we are fed directly from the
Vartry reservoir in Co. Wicklow, which passes through a service
reservoir in Rathmichael, which then feeds us. So the Stillorgan
reservoir is not used for my area it seems. But Im pretty sure most of
our service reservoirs are uncovered anyway. We're way behind here on
these things.

I have a feeling that a proper jet through our main will improve
matters a fair bit, at least for a while. And if it does, I can point
this out to them so that they know I was right! Anyhow, thanks for all
the advice from your good self, I think its been about a year now that
Ive been posting here about this....

Just noticed your reply, prior to turning the PC off and wandering up the
wooden hills. The Big Picture I was thinking about is that it would be
sensible financially to ensure that all the SRs feeding the system were
covered before initiating a major flush and refurbishment of the mains
within the City; possibly the reason for not being keen to address your
problem at this time!

Regardless, I wish you good luck in resolving the issue.

Clot

None wrote:
On Apr 18, 9:50 am, "Tim Downie"
wrote:
None wrote:
And in the last couple of hours when we run the tap we are getting
loads of black particles in the supply. Very bad situation here, I
dont understand why this has to happen.

Are you *sure* that you're on a mains supply and not a private
pumped well (perhaps shared with a few houses locally)? Might
explain the lack of chlorine and multitude of bugs.

(Don't mean this to sound patronising, just want to know if you've
considered the possibility)

Tim

Haha, no... I live in a Dublin suburb, in a vey built up area, so
there's no chance of that.

I'm beginning to wonder if it wouldn't be a lot less aggro to install your
own water treatment/filtration system.

When pigs start flying you might be able to reclaim your expenses from the
water company. ;-)

Tim

On Apr 19, 11:01 am, "Tim Downie"
wrote:
None wrote:
On Apr 18, 9:50 am, "Tim Downie"
wrote:
None wrote:
And in the last couple of hours when we run the tap we are getting
loads of black particles in the supply. Very bad situation here, I
dont understand why this has to happen.

Are you *sure* that you're on a mains supply and not a private
pumped well (perhaps shared with a few houses locally)? Might
explain the lack of chlorine and multitude of bugs.

(Don't mean this to sound patronising, just want to know if you've
considered the possibility)

Tim

Haha, no... I live in a Dublin suburb, in a vey built up area, so
there's no chance of that.

I'm beginning to wonder if it wouldn't be a lot less aggro to install your
own water treatment/filtration system.

When pigs start flying you might be able to reclaim your expenses from the
water company. ;-)

Tim

Tim,

Ive already tried a couple of filtration options, they were disasters.
I would never recommend treating mains water, it just doesnt work out.

None wrote:
On Apr 19, 11:01 am, "Tim Downie"
wrote:
None wrote:


I'm beginning to wonder if it wouldn't be a lot less aggro to
install your own water treatment/filtration system.

When pigs start flying you might be able to reclaim your expenses
from the water company. ;-)

Tim

Tim,

Ive already tried a couple of filtration options, they were disasters.
I would never recommend treating mains water, it just doesnt work out.

Just out of interest, what was the problem? Just too much crude for your
filters to cope with?

Tim

On Apr 19, 11:29 pm, "Tim Downie"
wrote:
None wrote:
On Apr 19, 11:01 am, "Tim Downie"
wrote:
None wrote:

I'm beginning to wonder if it wouldn't be a lot less aggro to
install your own water treatment/filtration system.
When pigs start flying you might be able to reclaim your expenses
from the water company. ;-)

Tim

Tim,

Ive already tried a couple of filtration options, they were disasters.
I would never recommend treating mains water, it just doesnt work out.

Just out of interest, what was the problem? Just too much crude for your
filters to cope with?

Tim

I think so yeah, lol.... it also seems that if we only use the minimum
water amount in and around the house, we get a lot less sediment and
what have you. But in times when we use a lot, we get a lot more. We
are on the bottom of a steep slope, and the supply is fed from two
directions, so i guess this is why that is happening.