Hi,

I'm planning to build a "moderately epic" barbecue this spring. The main
structure will probably be of brick, but there will also be some steel
involved. You can't cook a turkey on an open grill, so I will have to
incorporate a lid, which seems to be feasible only in metal.

I've not done much metalwork before, but I'm not too worried about most
of it. However, there are a few points I'd welcome advice on.

Firstly, fixings. I'm not planning anything very complicated, and if
necessary reckon I can do it all with rivets, folds, etc, rather than
any hot work. I don't have access to welding gear, but I might be able
to braze or solder the joints with a blowtorch. However, I wonder if
this is suitable for a barbecue lid that will be over a hot fire.

Also, coating. Presumably if I were to just use mild steel it would rust
away in short order (especially with the heat) so I need something. I
suppose one option is to buy stainless, though it might be a) expensive
and b) hard to work and especially to braze. Is galvanised steel likely
to be suitable? Or what paints/coatings are available for steel in hot
environments? I'm aware of "manifold paint" for car engines, for example.

Material. Essentially, I'll be making an open-bottomed box, perhaps
800x450x300mm (random guess, I haven't come up with a design yet).
Assuming cutting a cross-shape and bending down the legs, that would be
cut from a sheet 1400x1050mm. I've pulled the figure of 2mm thickness
from nowhere - is that likely to be unacceptably floppy once formed into
a box? Any idea of a ballpark figure for price of such a sheet?

Finally, I've posted on our internal newsgroups at work for suggestions
of local suppliers, but any general suggestions from here are welcome as
well. I'm in Southampton if you happen to know somewhere specific.

Answers to any of the above appreciated, as well as any other advice.
However, to forestall a certain class of comment, yes I'm aware I can
probably buy a big barbecue cheaper, but I'd rather build one.

Thanks,

Pete

ps: Since writing the above, I've found a cheap and cheerful "arc
welder" at Screwfix. I realise this is a rock-bottom budget tool, but is
it likely to be capable of bodging up my big steel box, do you think?
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/53349/...rc-Welder-130A

Pete Verdon used his keyboard to write :

Firstly, fixings. I'm not planning anything very complicated, and if
necessary reckon I can do it all with rivets, folds, etc, rather than any hot
work. I don't have access to welding gear, but I might be able to braze or
solder the joints with a blowtorch.

Solder would quickly melt.
Braze or weld.

Also, coating. Presumably if I were to just use mild steel it would rust away
in short order (especially with the heat) so I need something.

Not if you make it thick enough.


Material. Essentially, I'll be making an open-bottomed box, perhaps
800x450x300mm (random guess, I haven't come up with a design yet). Assuming
cutting a cross-shape and bending down the legs, that would be cut from a
sheet 1400x1050mm. I've pulled the figure of 2mm thickness from nowhere - is
that likely to be unacceptably floppy once formed into a box? Any idea of a
ballpark figure for price of such a sheet?

Small oil drum, cut in half with an angle grinder then weld hinges on,
a handle and a base/frame. When it has rusted away, build another.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:10:49 +0100, Pete Verdon
d wrote:

I've not done much metalwork before, but I'm not too worried about most
of it. However, there are a few points I'd welcome advice on.

Nightschool class. It'll give you cheap access to MIG, hopefully plasma
cutting too.

You could do it with stick, but I'd much prefer MIG.

"Pete Verdon" d wrote in
message ...
Hi,

I'm planning to build a "moderately epic" barbecue this spring. The main
structure will probably be of brick, but there will also be some steel
involved. You can't cook a turkey on an open grill, so I will have to
incorporate a lid, which seems to be feasible only in metal.

I've not done much metalwork before, but I'm not too worried about most of
it. However, there are a few points I'd welcome advice on.

Firstly, fixings. I'm not planning anything very complicated, and if
necessary reckon I can do it all with rivets, folds, etc, rather than any
hot work. I don't have access to welding gear, but I might be able to
braze or solder the joints with a blowtorch. However, I wonder if this is
suitable for a barbecue lid that will be over a hot fire.

Also, coating. Presumably if I were to just use mild steel it would rust
away in short order (especially with the heat) so I need something. I
suppose one option is to buy stainless, though it might be a) expensive
and b) hard to work and especially to braze. Is galvanised steel likely to
be suitable? Or what paints/coatings are available for steel in hot
environments? I'm aware of "manifold paint" for car engines, for example.

Material. Essentially, I'll be making an open-bottomed box, perhaps
800x450x300mm (random guess, I haven't come up with a design yet).
Assuming cutting a cross-shape and bending down the legs, that would be
cut from a sheet 1400x1050mm. I've pulled the figure of 2mm thickness from
nowhere - is that likely to be unacceptably floppy once formed into a box?
Any idea of a ballpark figure for price of such a sheet?

Finally, I've posted on our internal newsgroups at work for suggestions of
local suppliers, but any general suggestions from here are welcome as
well. I'm in Southampton if you happen to know somewhere specific.

Answers to any of the above appreciated, as well as any other advice.
However, to forestall a certain class of comment, yes I'm aware I can
probably buy a big barbecue cheaper, but I'd rather build one.

Thanks,

Pete

ps: Since writing the above, I've found a cheap and cheerful "arc welder"
at Screwfix. I realise this is a rock-bottom budget tool, but is it likely
to be capable of bodging up my big steel box, do you think?
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/53349/...rc-Welder-130A

Galvanised is *not* suitable IIRC. I can't remember the exact reasons, but
recall someone trying to make a grille from a bit of shopping trolley, until
someone said "aaaaaang on a minute".

In ,
Doki typed:
"Pete Verdon"
d wrote in
message ...
Hi,

I'm planning to build a "moderately epic" barbecue this spring.
The main structure will probably be of brick, but there will
also be some steel involved. You can't cook a turkey on an open
grill, so I will have to incorporate a lid, which seems to be
feasible only in metal. I've not done much metalwork before, but I'm not
too worried
about most of it. However, there are a few points I'd welcome
advice on. Firstly, fixings. I'm not planning anything very complicated,
and if necessary reckon I can do it all with rivets, folds, etc,
rather than any hot work. I don't have access to welding gear,
but I might be able to braze or solder the joints with a
blowtorch. However, I wonder if this is suitable for a barbecue
lid that will be over a hot fire. Also, coating. Presumably if I were to
just use mild steel it
would rust away in short order (especially with the heat) so I
need something. I suppose one option is to buy stainless, though
it might be a) expensive and b) hard to work and especially to
braze. Is galvanised steel likely to be suitable? Or what
paints/coatings are available for steel in hot environments? I'm
aware of "manifold paint" for car engines, for example. Material.
Essentially, I'll be making an open-bottomed box,
perhaps 800x450x300mm (random guess, I haven't come up with a
design yet). Assuming cutting a cross-shape and bending down the
legs, that would be cut from a sheet 1400x1050mm. I've pulled
the figure of 2mm thickness from nowhere - is that likely to be
unacceptably floppy once formed into a box? Any idea of a
ballpark figure for price of such a sheet? Finally, I've posted on our
internal newsgroups at work for
suggestions of local suppliers, but any general suggestions from
here are welcome as well. I'm in Southampton if you happen to
know somewhere specific. Answers to any of the above appreciated, as well
as any other
advice. However, to forestall a certain class of comment, yes
I'm aware I can probably buy a big barbecue cheaper, but I'd
rather build one. Thanks,

Pete

ps: Since writing the above, I've found a cheap and cheerful
"arc welder" at Screwfix. I realise this is a rock-bottom budget
tool, but is it likely to be capable of bodging up my big steel
box, do you think?
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/53349/...rc-Welder-130A

Galvanised is *not* suitable IIRC. I can't remember the exact
reasons, but recall someone trying to make a grille from a bit of
shopping trolley, until someone said "aaaaaang on a minute".

The zinc would melt in no time + it gives off arsenic fumes.

Don.

cerberus wrote:
Doki typed:

Galvanised is *not* suitable IIRC. I can't remember the exact
reasons, but recall someone trying to make a grille from a bit of
shopping trolley, until someone said "aaaaaang on a minute".

The zinc would melt in no time + it gives off arsenic fumes.

Sounds worth avoiding :-) I asked the question because I couldn't
remember seeing anything galvanised and meant to be used with heat - I
guess that's why.

Mind you, speaking of trolleys, I have used supermarket baskets once befo
http://pverdon.csoft.net/photos/Climbing/DSCN0280.JPG

Cheers,

Pete

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Small oil drum, cut in half with an angle grinder then weld hinges on, a
handle and a base/frame. When it has rusted away, build another.

Yup, done it before, works well. But as a permanent feature of the patio
aesthetics are important with the new one, and a rusty drum doesn't
really do it for me.

Cheers,

Pete

"Pete Verdon" d wrote in
message ...
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Small oil drum, cut in half with an angle grinder then weld hinges on, a
handle and a base/frame. When it has rusted away, build another.

Yup, done it before, works well. But as a permanent feature of the patio
aesthetics are important with the new one, and a rusty drum doesn't really
do it for me.

Clean the drum up and use VHT paint then.

cerberus wrote:
In ,
Doki typed:
"Pete Verdon"
d wrote in
message ...
Hi,

I'm planning to build a "moderately epic" barbecue this spring.
The main structure will probably be of brick, but there will
also be some steel involved. You can't cook a turkey on an open
grill, so I will have to incorporate a lid, which seems to be
feasible only in metal. I've not done much metalwork before, but I'm not
too worried
about most of it. However, there are a few points I'd welcome
advice on. Firstly, fixings. I'm not planning anything very complicated,
and if necessary reckon I can do it all with rivets, folds, etc,
rather than any hot work. I don't have access to welding gear,
but I might be able to braze or solder the joints with a
blowtorch. However, I wonder if this is suitable for a barbecue
lid that will be over a hot fire. Also, coating. Presumably if I were to
just use mild steel it
would rust away in short order (especially with the heat) so I
need something. I suppose one option is to buy stainless, though
it might be a) expensive and b) hard to work and especially to
braze. Is galvanised steel likely to be suitable? Or what
paints/coatings are available for steel in hot environments? I'm
aware of "manifold paint" for car engines, for example. Material.
Essentially, I'll be making an open-bottomed box,
perhaps 800x450x300mm (random guess, I haven't come up with a
design yet). Assuming cutting a cross-shape and bending down the
legs, that would be cut from a sheet 1400x1050mm. I've pulled
the figure of 2mm thickness from nowhere - is that likely to be
unacceptably floppy once formed into a box? Any idea of a
ballpark figure for price of such a sheet? Finally, I've posted on our
internal newsgroups at work for
suggestions of local suppliers, but any general suggestions from
here are welcome as well. I'm in Southampton if you happen to
know somewhere specific. Answers to any of the above appreciated, as well
as any other
advice. However, to forestall a certain class of comment, yes
I'm aware I can probably buy a big barbecue cheaper, but I'd
rather build one. Thanks,

Pete

ps: Since writing the above, I've found a cheap and cheerful
"arc welder" at Screwfix. I realise this is a rock-bottom budget
tool, but is it likely to be capable of bodging up my big steel
box, do you think?

It would probably be useful up to around 3mm steel. MachineMart do
Clarkes around the same price too.

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/53349/...rc-Welder-130A
Galvanised is *not* suitable IIRC. I can't remember the exact
reasons, but recall someone trying to make a grille from a bit of
shopping trolley, until someone said "aaaaaang on a minute".

The zinc would melt in no time + it gives off arsenic fumes.

Don.


Actually, the zinc would burn off. Zinc fumes are poisonous. I got the
full story on a welding group when I asked about welding it.
http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor/safety3/index.htm

As it's outside, you would probably get away with it, but you wouldn't
get any benefit from the coating.

If you can get an oil drum, it's excellent. I've got one cut in half
with a stand made from angle iron so it's portable. I used bolts so I
can take it apart if I need to.

Bricks can cause problems when the water gets trapped.

dan

On Apr 11, 7:42*am, "cerberus" wrote:

The zinc would melt in no time + it gives off arsenic fumes.

Poisonous yes - arsenic no.

On 11 Apr, 09:10, Dan Smithers wrote:

Actually, the zinc would burn off. Zinc fumes are poisonous.

Noxious, but not toxic in these levels. Hot-dip galvanised sheet welds
very badly, as there's enough zinc around to make for a significant
impurity in the resulting weld. If you gas weld then it's hot for long
enough to allow the zinc to boil off, if you electrically weld it it's
too quick and you get a weak weld. For car repair work it's common to
use "Zintec" sheet which is a thinner electroplated zinc coating. This
stuff welds straight through without a problem. It's also useful
rustproofing under paint, but not enough to leave bare out in the
garden.

Chromium, now that's a different matter. "Chrome flu" is much more
horrible.

If you want arsenic fumes, try making the Japanese decorative white
copper alloy, kuromi-do (another new word for Huge!). This is 99:1
copper:arsenic. Easy to make in principle, pretty nasty to actually do
it.

Dan Smithers wrote:

If you can get an oil drum, it's excellent. I've got one cut in half
with a stand made from angle iron so it's portable. I used bolts so I
can take it apart if I need to.

Yup, I've put together in the past exactly the same thing, right down to
the angle-iron and bolts. Mine was made to be carried in the back of a
car - all the pieces fitted inside the half-drum, with a wooden board
that fitted exactly in the top and made a table when removed.

However, this project is not to make an oil-drum barbecue. I'm actually
taking a certain amount of design inspiration from he
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...t/1276011.html
though mine will be charcoal rather than gas, and won't be quite so
ragingly, Americanly, over-the-top. Will probably be a little rougher
round the edges too since I'm building it :-).

Bricks can cause problems when the water gets trapped.

Oh? Sounds like something I should take care to avoid - what do you mean
exactly?

Cheers,

Pete

Pete Verdon wrote:
Dan Smithers wrote:


Bricks can cause problems when the water gets trapped.

Oh? Sounds like something I should take care to avoid - what do you mean
exactly?

I've had issues where water gets into the surroundings (either bricks,
mortared joints or concrete). When it gets hot, the water vaporises and
if it can't escape it pops bits of the surroundings off. Mainly this has
been using the bricks to contain the fire directly.

Some materials are worse for it than others.

Dan Smithers wrote:
Pete Verdon wrote:
Dan Smithers wrote:

Bricks can cause problems when the water gets trapped.

Oh? Sounds like something I should take care to avoid - what do you mean
exactly?

I've had issues where water gets into the surroundings (either bricks,
mortared joints or concrete). When it gets hot, the water vaporises and
if it can't escape it pops bits of the surroundings off. Mainly this has
been using the bricks to contain the fire directly.

Makes sense. I would have the coals on a grid, but the sides would be
straight brick. On the other hand, it is going to have the famous lid
over it so perhaps less likely to have water soak into the internal
faces of the brick in the first place? I was intending to look for the
densest brick I could reasonably find, but I'm not going to pay for
something exotic.

Pete