Ive been trying to get hold of the "Which? Book of Wiring and
Lighting" and it seems to be out of print absolutely everywhere. I
sent a query to Which because it seemed to have been popular judging
by forum chatter and amazon ratings and the response I got was as
follows;


"The books are only removed from print when their production is
uneconomic, and sales did not permit the publication to continue.

We are keen to produce information that is helpful for consumers, and
so I have passed on your comments to the publishing team."


So i suggest that anyone interested send an email to
to ask for a reprint and maybe just maybe we could get lucky...

Alternatively - anyone got an old copy they don't want any more...

Greg


Amazon review;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Which-Book-W...5438431&sr=1-2

On Mar 13, 8:06*pm, Greg wrote:
Ive been trying to get hold of the "Which? Book of Wiring and
Lighting" and it seems to be out of print absolutely everywhere. I
sent a query to Which because it seemed to have been popular judging
by forum chatter and amazon ratings and the response I got was as
follows;

"The books are only removed from print when their production is
uneconomic, and sales did not permit the publication to continue.

We are keen to produce information that is helpful for consumers, and
so I have passed on your comments to the publishing team."

So i suggest that anyone interested send an email to
to ask for a reprint and maybe just maybe we could get lucky...

Alternatively - anyone got an old copy they don't want any more...

Greg



The problem is that it was published prior to the Part-P nonsense.
About four fifths of the book would probably be covered by Part-P and
therefore theoretically illegal for a DIYer to do.

I also suspect there is an element of arse covering involved too - I
doubt Which would want to be sued following someone cocking up a
project based upon instructions in their book.

"Greg" wrote in message
...
Ive been trying to get hold of the "Which? Book of Wiring and
Lighting"

Only one copy in abebooks.co.uk

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/Se...ting&x=36&y=14

and a surprisingly high £30.

In general though I've been amazed what you can get through them. Mint
copies of recent stuff at half the list price or better. Stuff long out of
print. Second-hand booksellers have a very strict code about disclosing the
most minor detail (like the price being cut off the corner of a
dust-jacket). No commercial interest, just a very happy customer.

stevelup wrote:

The problem is that it was published prior to the Part-P nonsense.
About four fifths of the book would probably be covered by Part-P and
therefore theoretically illegal for a DIYer to do.

Why do people keep saying stuff like this?

Part P does not make *any* wiring activity illegal for a DIYer to do.

Some of those activities have become "controlled" and hence need to be
done under the oversight of building control (or signed off by someone
able to self certify).

So wiring has become entangled in pointless red tape, and lots of
nonsense from various BCOs etc, however it is still legal. All something
like the Which? manual would require is a page explaining it.

I also suspect there is an element of arse covering involved too - I
doubt Which would want to be sued following someone cocking up a
project based upon instructions in their book.

Never bothered them before, so why would it now?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mar 14, 9:49*am, John Rumm wrote:
stevelup wrote:
The problem is that it was published prior to the Part-P nonsense.
About four fifths of the book would probably be covered by Part-P and
therefore theoretically illegal for a DIYer to do.

Why do people keep saying stuff like this?

I said *theoretically*. I'm no fan of Part P - I was just offering a
suggestion as to why the popularity of a DIY wiring book may have
fallen.

Part P does not make *any* wiring activity illegal for a DIYer to do.

It is if you don't follow the bureaucracy though...

Some of those activities have become "controlled" and hence need to be
done under the oversight of building control (or signed off by someone
able to self certify).

You can't do that though can you? A 'competent person' is not allowed
to sign off someone else's work. The vast majority of local
authorities make it almost impossible to follow the correct rules as
well and charge ridiculous amounts for a full test. This does put work
in controlled areas out of the reach of a large number of people.

So wiring has become entangled in pointless red tape, and lots of
nonsense from various BCOs etc, however it is still legal. All something
like the Which? manual would require is a page explaining it.

The problem is caused by the inconsistent way that Part-P is
interpreted though. Some LA's are happy to charge 50 quid as long as
you can provide a test certificate. Others force you into spending
hundreds of pounds to pay for their own rip-off examination - I don't
know how this has been allowed to continue as it is specifically
prohibited...

I also suspect there is an element of arse covering involved too - I
doubt Which would want to be sued following someone cocking up a
project based upon instructions in their book.

Never bothered them before, so why would it now?

We are living in an ever more litigious society though. Lets face it,
when the book was first published, would you ever have heard of
someone suing M&S to the tune of 2 million quid for slipping on a
grape in the car park!

It is most likely that there is a simple financial explanation for the
lack of an updated version. It would cost money to revise the book to
reflect the current situation. It's not just Part P either, I'm sure
there would need to be many amendments made to bring the advice in the
book in line with the 17th edition. Add to this the likelihood of much
lower potential sales than previous editions and it begins to look
uneconomic.

The internet is probably partly to blame as well - people are much
more easily able to access instant advice on their specific question
which makes printed matter less desirable.

Steve

On 14 Mar, 10:29, stevelup wrote:

The problem is caused by the inconsistent way that Part-P is
interpreted though. Some LA's are happy to charge 50 quid as long as
you can provide a test certificate. Others force you into spending
hundreds of pounds to pay for their own rip-off examination - I don't
know how this has been allowed to continue as it is specifically
prohibited...

I think that prohibition is mythical, unfortunately.

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 03:29:03 -0700, stevelup wrote:



The internet is probably partly to blame as well - people are much more
easily able to access instant advice on their specific question which
makes printed matter less desirable.

Steve

At first I thought "They don't want a book that tells people the cheapest
way to do electrics is either illegally or using a pro."

However /we/ collectively are in part the cause of the slow decline of
printed non-fiction. There are still pockets of resistance to the idea
that info should be and effectively is "free", who charge silly money for
books of info.

The only reason that fiction is still around is that no-one has yet
developed an electronic book reader that looks and feels like a printed
book. But that can't be too far away...


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

stevelup wrote:

Some of those activities have become "controlled" and hence need to be
done under the oversight of building control (or signed off by someone
able to self certify).

You can't do that though can you? A 'competent person' is not allowed
to sign off someone else's work.

Yes, you are right, sorry I was being sloppy with my wording. The self
certifying person would also need to do the work.

The vast majority of local
authorities make it almost impossible to follow the correct rules as
well and charge ridiculous amounts for a full test. This does put work
in controlled areas out of the reach of a large number of people.

Oh, indeed, I agree, the whole fiasco is a complete mess.

So wiring has become entangled in pointless red tape, and lots of
nonsense from various BCOs etc, however it is still legal. All something
like the Which? manual would require is a page explaining it.

The problem is caused by the inconsistent way that Part-P is
interpreted though. Some LA's are happy to charge 50 quid as long as
you can provide a test certificate. Others force you into spending
hundreds of pounds to pay for their own rip-off examination - I don't
know how this has been allowed to continue as it is specifically
prohibited...

Probably because the only people who object are are individuals such as
us. The big corporates with the funds to fund an argument are not
interested.

I also suspect there is an element of arse covering involved too - I
doubt Which would want to be sued following someone cocking up a
project based upon instructions in their book.
Never bothered them before, so why would it now?

We are living in an ever more litigious society though. Lets face it,
when the book was first published, would you ever have heard of
someone suing M&S to the tune of 2 million quid for slipping on a
grape in the car park!

Perhaps....

It is most likely that there is a simple financial explanation for the
lack of an updated version. It would cost money to revise the book to
reflect the current situation. It's not just Part P either, I'm sure
there would need to be many amendments made to bring the advice in the
book in line with the 17th edition. Add to this the likelihood of much
lower potential sales than previous editions and it begins to look
uneconomic.

There is also the general and widespread downturn in DIY to contend
with. Something that has hit all the sheds in recent years - people are
finding other ways to spend their money.

The internet is probably partly to blame as well - people are much
more easily able to access instant advice on their specific question
which makes printed matter less desirable.

It might also be that there is a finite market size for such a book, and
once most of the people who want it have bought it you won't sell many
more.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , John Rumm see.my.signa
writes
stevelup wrote:

Some of those activities have become "controlled" and hence need to be
done under the oversight of building control (or signed off by someone
able to self certify).

You can't do that though can you? A 'competent person' is not allowed
to sign off someone else's work.

Yes, you are right, sorry I was being sloppy with my wording. The self
certifying person would also need to do the work.


This isn't the case with my LA. I did the work on my previous
renovation project. Building Control inspected first fix (well had a
cursory glance around) and final sign off was via a periodic inspection
report provided by a part P registered sparks.


--
Martin Carroll

Martin Carroll wrote:
In article , John Rumm see.my.signa
writes
stevelup wrote:

Some of those activities have become "controlled" and hence need to be
done under the oversight of building control (or signed off by someone
able to self certify).
You can't do that though can you? A 'competent person' is not allowed
to sign off someone else's work.
Yes, you are right, sorry I was being sloppy with my wording. The self
certifying person would also need to do the work.


This isn't the case with my LA. I did the work on my previous
renovation project. Building Control inspected first fix (well had a
cursory glance around) and final sign off was via a periodic inspection
report provided by a part P registered sparks.

A PIR is not the same as the sparks issuing a part P completion cert
though...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , John Rumm see.my.signa
writes
Martin Carroll wrote:
In article , John Rumm see.my.signa
writes
stevelup wrote:

Some of those activities have become "controlled" and hence need to be
done under the oversight of building control (or signed off by someone
able to self certify).
You can't do that though can you? A 'competent person' is not allowed
to sign off someone else's work.
Yes, you are right, sorry I was being sloppy with my wording. The self
certifying person would also need to do the work.


This isn't the case with my LA. I did the work on my previous
renovation project. Building Control inspected first fix (well had a
cursory glance around) and final sign off was via a periodic inspection
report provided by a part P registered sparks.

A PIR is not the same as the sparks issuing a part P completion cert
though...

I guess it shows that the whole issue is clouded with uncertainty. I
have just started a new project and intend to follow the same route. I
did phone building control to check that a PIR was adequate and they
confirmed this.

Martn
--
Martin Carroll

Martin Carroll wrote:

I guess it shows that the whole issue is clouded with uncertainty. I
have just started a new project and intend to follow the same route. I
did phone building control to check that a PIR was adequate and they
confirmed this.

I was about to say lucky for you, but then again I doubt the BCO will be
paying for the PIR as he should. Needless to say this is all variable
with different LAs. It seems to be a case of them making up the rules as
they go along.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/