Now listen up!

The windmill thread has become unwieldy €“ so I am starting a new thread
though I have just been reading Dave Liquorice and Mary Fisher
discussing low frequency sound "up the way" and that is what has
prompted this post. The mosquito thread also seems potentially relevant.
The presence of several people with in-depth understanding of sound and
noise helps. :-)

The other day I went to Tesco at Loudwater. (What an exciting life I
lead!) Something seemed odd throughout my visit but it really became
obvious while at the till. I couldnt hear properly any more.

It felt like being in a dream. The checkout operator must have said
something but their voice was distant and quiet. The beeps, rattles, and
other common din at the till was much less obvious than normal.

Usually in this particular Tesco (and many other stores), I find the
volume unpleasant, almost painful. The racket made by the refrigeration
plant is bad and varies in bands or rays or nodes up and down the aisles
(never have quite worked it out) where (I imagine) the sounds from
various sources interfere. The noise of the tills is annoying.

But this time it was almost like the air was not transmitting sound as
well as usual. I did not notice the refrigeration plant nearly as much
as usual.

On leaving, my hearing initially felt dampened down as if I had become
partially deaf. It seemed to recover over the next tens of minutes. And
I mentioned the experience to partner. She felt almost exactly the same
as I had.

I suffer from high pitched tinnitus. Partner suffers from deeper
tinnitus. We both exhibit some signs of hyperacusis.

Neither of us noticed anything different about the store (e.g. new
acoustic tiles).

After discussing it with partner, I wondered if they could have
installed some sort of anti-noise device to reduce the sound levels in
the store?

Any suggestions? Any explanations?

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Rod saying
something like:

After discussing it with partner, I wondered if they could have
installed some sort of anti-noise device to reduce the sound levels in
the store?

Any suggestions? Any explanations?

You should have removed your noise-cancelling headphones before paying.

Actually, it's possible there was some form of noise cancelling going on
in the store, perhaps just to see if customers complained about it.
--

Dave

Rod wrote:

After discussing it with partner, I wondered if they could have
installed some sort of anti-noise device to reduce the sound levels in
the store?


I don't know, but I shop at Tesco SOLELY because they don't play music.
I drive past three music-infested competitors on the way simply so that
I can shop in comparative silence.

Another Dave.

"Another Dave" wrote in message
...
Rod wrote:

After discussing it with partner, I wondered if they could have installed
some sort of anti-noise device to reduce the sound levels in the store?


I don't know, but I shop at Tesco SOLELY because they don't play music. I
drive past three music-infested competitors on the way simply so that I
can shop in comparative silence.

I haven't been in Tesco for years, Sainsbury for almost as long, Asda only
once and rarely in Morrison's but I haven't herd musack in any of them for a
VERY long time.

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Another Dave" wrote in message
...
Rod wrote:
After discussing it with partner, I wondered if they could have installed
some sort of anti-noise device to reduce the sound levels in the store?

I don't know, but I shop at Tesco SOLELY because they don't play music. I
drive past three music-infested competitors on the way simply so that I
can shop in comparative silence.

I haven't been in Tesco for years, Sainsbury for almost as long, Asda only
once and rarely in Morrison's but I haven't herd musack in any of them for a
VERY long time.

You obviously don't go shopping there in December. :-)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Rod" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Another Dave" wrote in message
...
Rod wrote:
After discussing it with partner, I wondered if they could have
installed some sort of anti-noise device to reduce the sound levels in
the store?

I don't know, but I shop at Tesco SOLELY because they don't play music.
I drive past three music-infested competitors on the way simply so that
I can shop in comparative silence.

I haven't been in Tesco for years, Sainsbury for almost as long, Asda
only once and rarely in Morrison's but I haven't herd musack in any of
them for a VERY long time.

You obviously don't go shopping there in December. :-)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

How can anyone shop at Xmas without Slade and Bing??

In article ,
John wrote:
How can anyone shop at Xmas without Slade and Bing??

With pleasure?

--
*Your kid may be an honours student, but you're still an idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Rod" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Another Dave" wrote in message
...
Rod wrote:
After discussing it with partner, I wondered if they could have
installed some sort of anti-noise device to reduce the sound levels in
the store?

I don't know, but I shop at Tesco SOLELY because they don't play music.
I drive past three music-infested competitors on the way simply so that
I can shop in comparative silence.

I haven't been in Tesco for years, Sainsbury for almost as long, Asda
only once and rarely in Morrison's but I haven't herd musack in any of
them for a VERY long time.

You obviously don't go shopping there in December. :-)

I don't shop in December :-)

Well, as little as possible. Waitrose had no musack.

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Rod" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Another Dave" wrote in message
...
Rod wrote:
After discussing it with partner, I wondered if they could have
installed some sort of anti-noise device to reduce the sound levels in
the store?

I don't know, but I shop at Tesco SOLELY because they don't play music.
I drive past three music-infested competitors on the way simply so that
I can shop in comparative silence.
I haven't been in Tesco for years, Sainsbury for almost as long, Asda
only once and rarely in Morrison's but I haven't herd musack in any of
them for a VERY long time.
You obviously don't go shopping there in December. :-)

I don't shop in December :-)

Well, as little as possible. Waitrose had no musack.


The local rotary club playing third rate carols very loud on a clapped
out sound system in the car park was enough inside Waitrose... :-)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:30:42 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


I haven't been in Tesco for years, Sainsbury for almost as long, Asda only
once and rarely in Morrison's but I haven't herd musack in any of them for a
VERY long time.

Well, that would be difficult if you rarely, if ever, go in (they'd
tend to scatter and hide round the ends of the fixtures.)

DG

On Mar 11, 7:08*pm, Another Dave wrote:
Rod wrote:

After discussing it with partner, I wondered if they could have
installed some sort of anti-noise device to reduce the sound levels in
the store?

I don't know, but I shop at Tesco SOLELY because they don't play music.
I drive past three music-infested competitors on the way simply so that
I can shop in comparative silence.

Another Dave.

Our local tesco has music from little TVs dotted all throughout the
store. When they first installed them they left the controls exposed
and the shoppers turned them down. Now they have littlel covers over
the controls. This tesco (newmarket Road, Cambridge) is used as a
"test bed" so you might expect otehr stores to follow this trend.

I hate it and try to shop elsewhere.

Robert

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 02:44:04 -0700 (PDT), RobertL wrote:

Our local tesco has music from little TVs dotted all throughout the
store.

So does the one we go to regularly (Carlisle) and others I drop into from
time to time. It's subtle and some nasty swirly smooth sound, no rythum or
beat as such.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Rod wrote:

After discussing it with partner, I wondered if they could have
installed some sort of anti-noise device to reduce the sound levels in
the store?

Any suggestions? Any explanations?

A couple of possibilities spring to mind...

First if Bluewater is anything like lakeside (large covered concourse
area with shops that open directly onto it without the usual doors),
then you may experience unwanted effects from the changes in barometric
pressure. The AC is designed to keep the main concourse pressure
slightly higher than that in the shops. This ensures there is a nett
flow of air into the shop, so that should there be a fire in a shop the
smoke is contained in it and does not spill out into the shared area.

I find the subtle pressure changes experienced from more than about an
hour of walking in an out of shops there is enough to give me a headache.

Second possibility, some shopping centres employ a device known as the
mosquito:

http://www.kidsbegone.com/

This emits a loud constant whine at high frequency that is designed to
make it uncomfortable to congregate in close proximity to it for any
length of time. The intention being to cause groups of youths to not
loiter, and the (rather dodgy) assumption being that older shoppers
hearing will not longer have the high frequency sensitivity to hear it.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Rod wrote:

After discussing it with partner, I wondered if they could have
installed some sort of anti-noise device to reduce the sound levels in
the store?

Any suggestions? Any explanations?

A couple of possibilities spring to mind...

First if Bluewater

.... were what I had posted about! I actually typed Loudwater (which is
near High Wycombe).

is anything like lakeside (large covered concourse
area with shops that open directly onto it without the usual doors),
then you may experience unwanted effects from the changes in barometric
pressure.

No - just a large shed-like standard Tesco design.

The AC is designed to keep the main concourse pressure
slightly higher than that in the shops. This ensures there is a nett
flow of air into the shop, so that should there be a fire in a shop the
smoke is contained in it and does not spill out into the shared area.

I find the subtle pressure changes experienced from more than about an
hour of walking in an out of shops there is enough to give me a headache.

Nice idea - but seems inapplicable.

Second possibility, some shopping centres employ a device known as the
mosquito:

http://www.kidsbegone.com/

This emits a loud constant whine at high frequency that is designed to
make it uncomfortable to congregate in close proximity to it for any
length of time. The intention being to cause groups of youths to not
loiter, and the (rather dodgy) assumption being that older shoppers
hearing will not longer have the high frequency sensitivity to hear it.


Thought of that (hence mention of mosquito in original post) - but I am
surely far too old to hear one. And loads of younger citizens in the
shop not showing any more than ordinary levels of distress. I think a
mosquito would have a hard job being heard over my tinnitus. :-)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Rod wrote:

A couple of possibilities spring to mind...

First if Bluewater

... were what I had posted about! I actually typed Loudwater (which is
near High Wycombe).

Ah, sorry assumed you were passing satirical comment on the latest
temple devoted to the god of shopping! ;-)

Thought of that (hence mention of mosquito in original post) - but I am
surely far too old to hear one. And loads of younger citizens in the

Well that is where the assumption of the manufacturers can fall down -
just because you are over 20 does guarantee your won't hear it -
although it is less likely. Also there can be physiological effects of
sounds even when not expressly audible.

shop not showing any more than ordinary levels of distress. I think a
mosquito would have a hard job being heard over my tinnitus. :-)

Perhaps you just have an adverse reaction to being dragged round the
shops! ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...

....


Perhaps you just have an adverse reaction to being dragged round the
shops! ;-)

I have :-(


Mary

"Rod" wrote in message
...
Now listen up!

The windmill thread has become unwieldy - so I am starting a new thread
though I have just been reading Dave Liquorice and Mary Fisher discussing
low frequency sound "up the way" and that is what has prompted this post.
The mosquito thread also seems potentially relevant. The presence of
several people with in-depth understanding of sound and noise helps. :-)


Some of these will defer the problem
http://tinyurl.com/2hjutm

Rod wrote:

The other day I went to Tesco at Loudwater. (What an exciting life I
lead!) Something seemed odd throughout my visit but it really became
obvious while at the till. I couldn’t hear properly any more.

It felt like being in a dream. The checkout operator must have said
something but their voice was distant and quiet. The beeps, rattles, and
other common din at the till was much less obvious than normal.

Usually in this particular Tesco (and many other stores), I find the
volume unpleasant, almost painful. The racket made by the refrigeration
plant is bad and varies in bands or rays or nodes up and down the aisles
(never have quite worked it out) where (I imagine) the sounds from
various sources interfere. The noise of the tills is annoying.

But this time it was almost like the air was not transmitting sound as
well as usual. I did not notice the refrigeration plant nearly as much
as usual.

On leaving, my hearing initially felt dampened down as if I had become
partially deaf. It seemed to recover over the next tens of minutes. And
I mentioned the experience to partner. She felt almost exactly the same
as I had.

I was once walking down the Strand one lunch-time, when I suddenly
became aware that I could only hear with difficulty - it came on
suddenly, lasted a couple of seconds, then cleared. Very strange. Then
a few moments later it did it again.

I realised that I was walking in the same direction as the traffic,
and I was alongside a London taxi. Every time the taxi put its brakes
on, I went deaf without hearing anything.

I realised the taxi's brakes were squeaking quite loudly, but at a
frequency that I couldn't hear - my cut-off these days is about 11
kHz.

I wonder if your Tesco is countering the ambient noise by turning
people's hearing down in this way? It might have the added benefit of
stopping youngsters buying booze, hanging around, etc etc.

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:53:35 +0000, Rod
wrote:

Now listen up!

The windmill thread has become unwieldy – so I am starting a new thread
though I have just been reading Dave Liquorice and Mary Fisher
discussing low frequency sound "up the way" and that is what has
prompted this post. The mosquito thread also seems potentially relevant.
The presence of several people with in-depth understanding of sound and
noise helps. :-)

The other day I went to Tesco at Loudwater. (What an exciting life I
lead!) Something seemed odd throughout my visit but it really became
obvious while at the till. I couldn’t hear properly any more.

It felt like being in a dream. The checkout operator must have said
something but their voice was distant and quiet. The beeps, rattles, and
other common din at the till was much less obvious than normal.

Usually in this particular Tesco (and many other stores), I find the
volume unpleasant, almost painful. The racket made by the refrigeration
plant is bad and varies in bands or rays or nodes up and down the aisles
(never have quite worked it out) where (I imagine) the sounds from
various sources interfere. The noise of the tills is annoying.

But this time it was almost like the air was not transmitting sound as
well as usual. I did not notice the refrigeration plant nearly as much
as usual.

On leaving, my hearing initially felt dampened down as if I had become
partially deaf. It seemed to recover over the next tens of minutes. And
I mentioned the experience to partner. She felt almost exactly the same
as I had.

I suffer from high pitched tinnitus. Partner suffers from deeper
tinnitus. We both exhibit some signs of hyperacusis.

Neither of us noticed anything different about the store (e.g. new
acoustic tiles).

After discussing it with partner, I wondered if they could have
installed some sort of anti-noise device to reduce the sound levels in
the store?

Any suggestions? Any explanations?

I wonder if it was a "white/pink noise" source? I once worked in a
building with one of those and it had a similar effect of masking
other sounds.

M.

Rod wrote:


Any suggestions? Any explanations?

Sounds more like you were suffering from a simple middle ear pressure
imbalance, when for some reason (perhaps a bit of a cold, blocked nose etc.)
your ears couldn't "pop" or equalise the pressures properly.

Tim

Tim Downie wrote:
Rod wrote:

Any suggestions? Any explanations?

Sounds more like you were suffering from a simple middle ear pressure
imbalance, when for some reason (perhaps a bit of a cold, blocked nose etc.)
your ears couldn't "pop" or equalise the pressures properly.


I agree that is what it could appear to be. Seems unlikely to affect
both of us at the same time. I do quite often have to do a valsalva but
this was unlike unequalised pressure.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On 13 Mar, 14:01, Rod wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:
Rod wrote:

Any suggestions? Any explanations?

Could be an active noise control system, one of these;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control

They're appearing in a lot of buildings. I know diddley about them.

Or the white/pink noise masking system.