Hi All,

I asked a while back about considerations when raising the pitch on a
garage / workshop roof (to make more of a 'loft' / storage space) and
I'm now, after seeing some in use, considering that pre coloured galv
steel roofing you often see in the bigger profiles cladding the walls
and roofs of the sheds we all know and love. ;-)

I'm told it would be much noisier than the existing corrugated cement
fibre (and I would have to replace that anyway as it would be too
short with a higher pitch) but I see you can get self insulated
panels but not sure if they meet the requirements of 'non combustible'
(I'm thinking of the insulation rather than the panels here).

I've even seen (but now can't find) a simulated slate (I've found the
tile one) that would be in keeping with our and many of the houses
round here.

The pro's for me could be that it might be lighter than cement fibre
(easier for me to do), possibly more secure (you couldn't just break
it open) and could be pre-insulated?

So, has anyone here used such stuff themselves and can point out any
pitfalls etc please?

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote:
Hi All,

I asked a while back about considerations when raising the pitch on a
garage / workshop roof (to make more of a 'loft' / storage space) and
I'm now, after seeing some in use, considering that pre coloured galv
steel roofing you often see in the bigger profiles cladding the walls
and roofs of the sheds we all know and love. ;-)

I'm told it would be much noisier than the existing corrugated cement
fibre (and I would have to replace that anyway as it would be too
short with a higher pitch) but I see you can get self insulated
panels but not sure if they meet the requirements of 'non combustible'
(I'm thinking of the insulation rather than the panels here).

I've even seen (but now can't find) a simulated slate (I've found the
tile one) that would be in keeping with our and many of the houses
round here.

The pro's for me could be that it might be lighter than cement fibre
(easier for me to do), possibly more secure (you couldn't just break
it open) and could be pre-insulated?

So, has anyone here used such stuff themselves and can point out any
pitfalls etc please?

All the best ..

T i m
I've lived in tin tops in africa. BOY they get hot.

Definitely put insulation under.

Don't worry about noise. Just make sure there is something inside in the
way of e.g. plasterboard - that will cut the echoes down.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

I asked a while back about considerations when raising the pitch on a
garage / workshop roof (to make more of a 'loft' / storage space) and
I'm now, after seeing some in use, considering that pre coloured galv
steel roofing you often see in the bigger profiles cladding the walls
and roofs of the sheds we all know and love. ;-)

Speak for yourself ...

I'm told it would be much noisier than the existing corrugated cement
fibre (and I would have to replace that anyway as it would be too
short with a higher pitch) but I see you can get self insulated
panels but not sure if they meet the requirements of 'non combustible'
(I'm thinking of the insulation rather than the panels here).

I've even seen (but now can't find) a simulated slate (I've found the
tile one) that would be in keeping with our and many of the houses
round here.

Why not go the whole hog and use pv tiles ;-)

Mary

On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 18:05:59 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

T i m wrote:
Hi All,

snip

So, has anyone here used such stuff themselves and can point out any
pitfalls etc please?

All the best ..

T i m
I've lived in tin tops in africa. BOY they get hot.

I work under an Ali one in Hants....and boy did that get hot last
year!

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 20:46:49 +0000, Stephen Howard
wrote:


I've lived in tin tops in africa. BOY they get hot.

I work under an Ali one in Hants....and boy did that get hot last
year!


Hmm, so are we saying much hotter than corrugated cement fibre guys
(assuming no insulation)?

All the best ..

T i m

On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 20:49:23 GMT, T i m wrote:

On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 20:46:49 +0000, Stephen Howard
wrote:


I've lived in tin tops in africa. BOY they get hot.

I work under an Ali one in Hants....and boy did that get hot last
year!


Hmm, so are we saying much hotter than corrugated cement fibre guys
(assuming no insulation)?

Yeah, I would say so.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

T i m wrote:
On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 20:46:49 +0000, Stephen Howard
wrote:


I've lived in tin tops in africa. BOY they get hot.
I work under an Ali one in Hants....and boy did that get hot last
year!


Hmm, so are we saying much hotter than corrugated cement fibre guys
(assuming no insulation)?


I fear so, yes.

All the best ..

T i m

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 19:59:13 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
Hi All,

I asked a while back about considerations when raising the pitch on a
garage / workshop roof (to make more of a 'loft' / storage space) and
I'm now, after seeing some in use, considering that pre coloured galv
steel roofing you often see in the bigger profiles cladding the walls
and roofs of the sheds we all know and love. ;-)

Speak for yourself ...

I was using the 'we' to specifically only include normal people Mary.
;-)


I've even seen (but now can't find) a simulated slate (I've found the
tile one) that would be in keeping with our and many of the houses
round here.

Why not go the whole hog and use pv tiles ;-)

Whilst that would be lovely, being able to keep all the motorbikes
charged up an have some battery / LV lighting etc I can't afford the
panels. :-(

Al the vest ..

T i m

In message , T i m
writes
Hi All,

I asked a while back about considerations when raising the pitch on a
garage / workshop roof (to make more of a 'loft' / storage space) and
I'm now, after seeing some in use, considering that pre coloured galv
steel roofing you often see in the bigger profiles cladding the walls
and roofs of the sheds we all know and love. ;-)

I'm told it would be much noisier than the existing corrugated cement
fibre (and I would have to replace that anyway as it would be too
short with a higher pitch) but I see you can get self insulated
panels but not sure if they meet the requirements of 'non combustible'
(I'm thinking of the insulation rather than the panels here).

I've even seen (but now can't find) a simulated slate (I've found the
tile one) that would be in keeping with our and many of the houses
round here.

The pro's for me could be that it might be lighter than cement fibre
(easier for me to do), possibly more secure (you couldn't just break
it open) and could be pre-insulated?

So, has anyone here used such stuff themselves and can point out any
pitfalls etc please?

try

I used their 80mm AS35 foam sandwich for a large, pitched roof workshop
without any real problems.

Points to consider are....

the sheets arrive cut to length: one end square and the other
having a 50mm rain drip (insulation and under sheet cut back). When you
fix this as a lean-too or ridge there is a triangle of uninsulated
space which needs filling with fire rated expanding foam.

flashing is made to your specification but sits on top of the
roofing ribs. Metre wide foam gap fillers are available but need to be
trapped by the flashing fixing screws.

Fixing screws are available for metal or wooden purlins.

rolls of mastic tape are required to prevent heavy rain bouncing under
the lap joins. This is applied to the underside of the lap but requires
care when lifting the sheet into position. Pair of hands needed at top
and bottom. Lap stitching screws are essential.

The biggest problem I encountered was how to attach the guttering and
how to seal off the exposed foam. Steadmans did not offer any solutions.
In the end I got some 100mm x 75mm pine cut diagonally (done by my
timber supplier with a band saw) which suited my roof pitch. Fixing was
by some home made *Z* shaped galvanised steel strips and the wood dosed
with preservative.

Things you may not realise about ribbed roofing..... not all buildings
are built square, my barn is 1m longer on one side than the other. This
is not a problem where the gutter is longer than the ridge however, on
the other side, the ribs conduct rain water over the end of the
building. Luckily I had some left over extruded aluminium gutter from a
greenhouse which was fitted behind the flashing.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

T i m wrote:

Hi All,

I asked a while back about considerations when raising the pitch on a
garage / workshop roof (to make more of a 'loft' / storage space) and
I'm now, after seeing some in use, considering that pre coloured galv
steel roofing you often see in the bigger profiles cladding the walls
and roofs of the sheds we all know and love. ;-)

I'm told it would be much noisier than the existing corrugated cement
fibre

corrie is relatively noisy in the rain, but I dont see it being an
issue.


NT

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 14:44:59 -0800 (PST), wrote:

T i m wrote:

Hi All,

I asked a while back about considerations when raising the pitch on a
garage / workshop roof (to make more of a 'loft' / storage space) and
I'm now, after seeing some in use, considering that pre coloured galv
steel roofing you often see in the bigger profiles cladding the walls
and roofs of the sheds we all know and love. ;-)

I'm told it would be much noisier than the existing corrugated cement
fibre

corrie is relatively noisy in the rain, but I dont see it being an
issue.


It can be...when you're on the phone.
It also tends to amplify the intensity of the rain...it sounds like
Armageddon has arrived early, and when you open the shed door to take
a peek at the spectacle you find it's just a light shower.
As for hail, well, that just gets silly.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:15:15 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:


So, has anyone here used such stuff themselves and can point out any
pitfalls etc please?

try

I used their 80mm AS35 foam sandwich for a large, pitched roof workshop
without any real problems.

Brilliant. That was one of the profiles I considered (I spotted it on
another site). Can you remember roughly how much it cost please Tim?

Points to consider are....

the sheets arrive cut to length: one end square and the other
having a 50mm rain drip (insulation and under sheet cut back).

Gotcha. I wondered how you / they dealt with that ..

When you
fix this as a lean-too or ridge there is a triangle of uninsulated
space which needs filling with fire rated expanding foam.

Understood.

flashing is made to your specification but sits on top of the
roofing ribs.

And considering the up to down ratio on that profile there would be
some fairly considerable sized gaps! It was that area that started my
questions previously. The existing low pitched roof came with a pre
moulded cement fibre ridge and that excludes all but the smallest of
gappage at the ridge. I wasn't sure if this was a common solution that
was available in a variety of angles but as yet I'm still not sure.

Metre wide foam gap fillers are available but need to be
trapped by the flashing fixing screws.

Understood.

Fixing screws are available for metal or wooden purlins.

Ok ..

rolls of mastic tape are required to prevent heavy rain bouncing under
the lap joins. This is applied to the underside of the lap but requires
care when lifting the sheet into position. Pair of hands needed at top
and bottom. Lap stitching screws are essential.

Understood and ok again ..

The biggest problem I encountered was how to attach the guttering and
how to seal off the exposed foam. Steadmans did not offer any solutions.

Isn't that strange. They make a product then sort of run out of ideas
on how to use it?

In the end I got some 100mm x 75mm pine cut diagonally (done by my
timber supplier with a band saw) which suited my roof pitch. Fixing was
by some home made *Z* shaped galvanised steel strips and the wood dosed
with preservative.

Ok ..

Things you may not realise about ribbed roofing..... not all buildings
are built square, my barn is 1m longer on one side than the other.

Yeah, I guess that's bound to happen quite often, especially with
older buildings.

This
is not a problem where the gutter is longer than the ridge however, on
the other side, the ribs conduct rain water over the end of the
building. Luckily I had some left over extruded aluminium gutter from a
greenhouse which was fitted behind the flashing.

Handy. ;-)

I was thinking of building a little forward overhang into the
replacement roof to offer a bit of cover over the doors so would also
have to do something gutterwize.

I guess it might come down to cost in the end, based on the cement
fibre at the lowest and working up from there.

All the best and thanks for your time and info Tim

T i m

On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 23:20:22 +0000, Stephen Howard
wrote:

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 14:44:59 -0800 (PST), wrote:

T i m wrote:

Hi All,

I asked a while back about considerations when raising the pitch on a
garage / workshop roof (to make more of a 'loft' / storage space) and
I'm now, after seeing some in use, considering that pre coloured galv
steel roofing you often see in the bigger profiles cladding the walls
and roofs of the sheds we all know and love. ;-)

I'm told it would be much noisier than the existing corrugated cement
fibre

corrie is relatively noisy in the rain, but I dont see it being an
issue.


It can be...when you're on the phone.

Agent shows this reply on the end of another thread but I'll answer
here anyway.

I quite like the sound of rain, especially when I'm trying to get to
sleep (tinnitus sufferer) but I try not to do that when using the
Myford. ;-)

It also tends to amplify the intensity of the rain...it sounds like
Armageddon has arrived early, and when you open the shed door to take
a peek at the spectacle you find it's just a light shower.

LOL. We have a poly carbonate lean_to roof that has a similar effect
and is normally our 'audible rain indicator'. ;-)

As for hail, well, that just gets silly.

I bet!

So, if I can get some sort of resolution to the ridge question, maybe
corrugated cement fibre would be a cheap / quiet / cool (as in temp
g) easy_to_source solution and potentially less likely to attract
any attention (as it's what's on there already).

I will just have to design in (and will have more space for with the
increased pitch) some form of roof lining (the walls are lined with
ply and insulating material already).

All the best

T i m

In message , T i m
writes
On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:15:15 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:


So, has anyone here used such stuff themselves and can point out any
pitfalls etc please?

try

I used their 80mm AS35 foam sandwich for a large, pitched roof workshop
without any real problems.

Brilliant. That was one of the profiles I considered (I spotted it on
another site). Can you remember roughly how much it cost please Tim?

November 2006 AS35 80mm composite sheeting cost £23.78/m

I also bought some AS35 40mm seconds at £7.73/m. Seconds are slightly
damaged: dented/overlong etc. They are exempt from LPC approval so may
not be a good idea for a domestic installation. I used a metal cutting
circular saw to cut them but there may be other ways.

For a ridge, you will need internal and external folded section at
around £5.00/m. Ridge fillers at £0.75ea. Also 90 deg. barge at a
similar price. Fixings are not exorbitant.

Delivery might be an issue as these usually arrive on an artic fitted
with a Moffet Mountie fork truck. Delivery to Herts. was £150.

I guess you have 3" cement fibre in self colour. I found delivery times
on painted *big 6* sheets had reached 3 months, recently.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

wrote:
T i m wrote:

Hi All,

I asked a while back about considerations when raising the pitch on a
garage / workshop roof (to make more of a 'loft' / storage space) and
I'm now, after seeing some in use, considering that pre coloured galv
steel roofing you often see in the bigger profiles cladding the walls
and roofs of the sheds we all know and love. ;-)

I'm told it would be much noisier than the existing corrugated cement
fibre

corrie is relatively noisy in the rain, but I dont see it being an
issue.


NT
You haven't lived through a tin roof in a tropical thunderstorm then.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 19:59:13 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
. ..
Hi All,

I asked a while back about considerations when raising the pitch on a
garage / workshop roof (to make more of a 'loft' / storage space) and
I'm now, after seeing some in use, considering that pre coloured galv
steel roofing you often see in the bigger profiles cladding the walls
and roofs of the sheds we all know and love. ;-)

Speak for yourself ...

I was using the 'we' to specifically only include normal people Mary.
;-)

Ah, thank you - that's the nicest thing I've heard all day.

Mind you, it is fairly early in the day - for me ...


I've even seen (but now can't find) a simulated slate (I've found the
tile one) that would be in keeping with our and many of the houses
round here.

Why not go the whole hog and use pv tiles ;-)

Whilst that would be lovely, being able to keep all the motorbikes
charged up an have some battery / LV lighting etc I can't afford the
panels. :-(

One at a time is good.

Mary

Stephen Howard wrote:
On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 14:44:59 -0800 (PST), wrote:
T i m wrote:

Hi All,

I asked a while back about considerations when raising the pitch on a
garage / workshop roof (to make more of a 'loft' / storage space) and
I'm now, after seeing some in use, considering that pre coloured galv
steel roofing you often see in the bigger profiles cladding the walls
and roofs of the sheds we all know and love. ;-)

I'm told it would be much noisier than the existing corrugated cement
fibre

corrie is relatively noisy in the rain, but I dont see it being an
issue.


It can be...when you're on the phone.
It also tends to amplify the intensity of the rain...it sounds like
Armageddon has arrived early, and when you open the shed door to take
a peek at the spectacle you find it's just a light shower.
As for hail, well, that just gets silly.

Regards,

Lol. Seriously though, its nothing like that bad. In fact it isnt bad
at all. The sound gives early warning of rain, which is handy to
enable the quick dash to the house before it starts raining properly.


TNP wrote:
You haven't lived through a tin roof in a tropical thunderstorm then

no, but I never found them a problem for British weather. Only in a
storm does it start getting noisy.

OTOH if the OP can get fibre cement for less, I would. No
condensation problem, less heat loss, less heat gain, rustproof
forever, no contest really.


NT

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 09:10:51 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In message , T i m
writes
On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:15:15 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:


So, has anyone here used such stuff themselves and can point out any
pitfalls etc please?

try

I used their 80mm AS35 foam sandwich for a large, pitched roof workshop
without any real problems.

Brilliant. That was one of the profiles I considered (I spotted it on
another site). Can you remember roughly how much it cost please Tim?

November 2006 AS35 80mm composite sheeting cost £23.78/m

Ouch .. :-(

I also bought some AS35 40mm seconds at £7.73/m.

That is slightly better (considering it is already insulated etc) but
still not cheap if you are d-i-y'ing (ie, not having to pay labour).

Seconds are slightly
damaged: dented/overlong etc.

I guess if that was say a sheet of polycarb or cement fibre you could
easily cut off the excess or lose a damaged corner somewhere where it
didn't matter. I seems this AS35 is quite a 'engineering' solution in
how the joints are made / sealed etc.

They are exempt from LPC approval so may
not be a good idea for a domestic installation.

Even for something like a fully detached workshop Tim?

I used a metal cutting
circular saw to cut them but there may be other ways.

Ok ..

For a ridge, you will need internal and external folded section at
around £5.00/m. Ridge fillers at £0.75ea. Also 90 deg. barge at a
similar price. Fixings are not exorbitant.

That's another couple of hundred quid?

Delivery might be an issue as these usually arrive on an artic fitted
with a Moffet Mountie fork truck. Delivery to Herts. was £150.

So would be the same for me (Herts) as it's probably per load rather
than value?

I guess you have 3" cement fibre in self colour.

nips out with tape measure Yep ;-) While we are on the subject,
would you know what other colours are available please?

I found delivery times
on painted *big 6* sheets had reached 3 months, recently.

Oh, ok, well in the real world I have a lot of work to do before I get
to that stage so may not be a problem etc. re the painted sheets Tim,
is this something that would need re-doing in time?

All the best and thanks again Tim.

T i m

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 10:25:35 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


Speak for yourself ...

I was using the 'we' to specifically only include normal people Mary.
;-)

Ah, thank you - that's the nicest thing I've heard all day.

;-)

Mind you, it is fairly early in the day - for me ...

Nurse came round a bit earlier today then?

Why not go the whole hog and use pv tiles ;-)

Whilst that would be lovely, being able to keep all the motorbikes
charged up an have some battery / LV lighting etc I can't afford the
panels. :-(

One at a time is good.

Motorbike, light or tile? If it's the latter the former will get wet
till I do the lot?

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 06:31:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


OTOH if the OP can get fibre cement for less, I would.

Cheers, that should save me a few quid (you are very generous) ;-)

No
condensation problem,

Hmm, I do get *some* (I have to protect lathes and other kit to stop
them rusting).

less heat loss,

Oh, so CF is quite good then?

less heat gain,

No 'hot tin roof' ;-)

rustproof
forever,

True ..

no contest really.

Hmm. I hadn't really considered it to be a 'good' but 'cheap' solution
(as provided by these pre-fab garage Co's to keep the price down etc)
but maybe I was mistaken?

All the best ..

T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 10:25:35 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


Speak for yourself ...

I was using the 'we' to specifically only include normal people Mary.
;-)

Ah, thank you - that's the nicest thing I've heard all day.

;-)

Mind you, it is fairly early in the day - for me ...

Nurse came round a bit earlier today then?

Matron.

Why not go the whole hog and use pv tiles ;-)

Whilst that would be lovely, being able to keep all the motorbikes
charged up an have some battery / LV lighting etc I can't afford the
panels. :-(

One at a time is good.

Motorbike, light or tile?

Take your pick.

If it's the latter the former will get wet
till I do the lot?

Ah - a fair weather rider then!

Mary

All the best ..

On 8 Mar, 13:45, T i m wrote:
Hi All,

I asked a while back about considerations when raising the pitch on a
garage / workshop roof (to make more of a 'loft' / storage space) and
I'm now, after seeing some in use, considering that pre coloured galv
steel roofing you often see in the bigger profiles cladding the walls
and roofs of the sheds we all know and love. ;-)

I'm told it would be much noisier than the existing corrugated cement
fibre (and I would have to replace that anyway as it would be too
short with a higher pitch) but I see you can get self insulated
panels but not sure if they meet the requirements of 'non combustible'
(I'm thinking of the insulation rather than the panels here).

I've even seen (but now can't find) a simulated slate (I've found the
tile one) that would be in keeping with our and many of the houses
round here.

The pro's for me could be that it might be lighter than cement fibre
(easier for me to do), possibly more secure (you couldn't just break
it open) and could be pre-insulated?

So, has anyone here used such stuff themselves and can point out any
pitfalls etc please?

All the best ..

T i m

Has anyone got any experience with Onduline ?

http://www.ondulinebuildingproducts.net/p0007.htm

Rob

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:01:42 GMT, T i m wrote:

On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 23:20:22 +0000, Stephen Howard
wrote:

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 14:44:59 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snip

corrie is relatively noisy in the rain, but I dont see it being an
issue.


It can be...when you're on the phone.

Agent shows this reply on the end of another thread but I'll answer
here anyway.

Yep, sorry about that...cursor found its way into the subject bar and
I didn't notice it!

I quite like the sound of rain, especially when I'm trying to get to
sleep (tinnitus sufferer) but I try not to do that when using the
Myford. ;-)

I use an mp3 player and old Goon shows...

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:22:33 -0700 (PDT), robgraham
wrote:



Has anyone got any experience with Onduline ?

http://www.ondulinebuildingproducts.net/p0007.htm

That looks interesting Rob.

Funny though, after folk have got me thinking about the heat aspect, a
light cement fibre grey seems it might be a good colour to reflect the
suns rays?

Depending on the price and finding a suitable corrugation match I
wonder if I could use Onduline in it's underlay role (it mentions
using it under tiles and slates but if it can 'oversheet' existing
corrugated roofs I guess it can 'underlay' as well? g).

All the best ..

T i m

HI Rob

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:22:33 -0700 (PDT), robgraham
wrote:

On 8 Mar, 13:45, T i m wrote:
Hi All,

I asked a while back about considerations when raising the pitch on a
garage / workshop roof (to make more of a 'loft' / storage space) and
I'm now, after seeing some in use, considering that pre coloured galv
steel roofing you often see in the bigger profiles cladding the walls
and roofs of the sheds we all know and love. ;-)

I'm told it would be much noisier than the existing corrugated cement
fibre (and I would have to replace that anyway as it would be too
short with a higher pitch) but I see you can get self insulated
panels but not sure if they meet the requirements of 'non combustible'
(I'm thinking of the insulation rather than the panels here).

I've even seen (but now can't find) a simulated slate (I've found the
tile one) that would be in keeping with our and many of the houses
round here.

The pro's for me could be that it might be lighter than cement fibre
(easier for me to do), possibly more secure (you couldn't just break
it open) and could be pre-insulated?

So, has anyone here used such stuff themselves and can point out any
pitfalls etc please?

All the best ..

T i m

Has anyone got any experience with Onduline ?

http://www.ondulinebuildingproducts.net/p0007.htm

Rob

I used some Onduline back at the last place.

Advantages - it's relatively cheap, doesn't rust or rot, light to
lift, easy to cut to size - but use an old saw - quite messy!

Disadvantages - needs cross-support at the recommended intervals
as otherwise it will sag under the effects of sunlight / heat.

Used it to roof one of the woodsheds (6ft x 20ft) and a chicken shed
(only 6' x 4').

Good stuff, IMHO

Adrian

T i m wrote:
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 06:31:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

OTOH if the OP can get fibre cement for less, I would.

Cheers, that should save me a few quid (you are very generous) ;-)

My terms are 10%

No
condensation problem,

Hmm, I do get *some* (I have to protect lathes and other kit to stop
them rusting).

sure - but nothing like corrugated iron, which is a real condensation
magnet. If your asbestos condenses a bit you could open a
waterworks with iron.

less heat loss,

Oh, so CF is quite good then?

less heat gain,

No 'hot tin roof' ;-)

A few mm of insulator vs less than 1mm of good heat conductor.
You still get hot roofs in the sun, but less so and its not all
eagerly conducted inside.


rustproof
forever,

True ..

no contest really.

Hmm. I hadn't really considered it to be a 'good' but 'cheap' solution
(as provided by these pre-fab garage Co's to keep the price down etc)
but maybe I was mistaken?

Well... it sure was popular. The reason it isnt today is its become
associated with the dreaded asbestos word. Bear in mind how long
those roofs have stayed up for, maintenance free.


NT

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 17:56:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

T i m wrote:
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 06:31:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

OTOH if the OP can get fibre cement for less, I would.

Cheers, that should save me a few quid (you are very generous) ;-)

My terms are 10%

hehe

No
condensation problem,

Hmm, I do get *some* (I have to protect lathes and other kit to stop
them rusting).

sure - but nothing like corrugated iron, which is a real condensation
magnet. If your asbestos condenses a bit you could open a
waterworks with iron.

To be fair I'm not even sure if it is the cement fibre but the
steelwork it sits on (confirming your point).

No 'hot tin roof' ;-)

A few mm of insulator vs less than 1mm of good heat conductor.

Hmm ..

You still get hot roofs in the sun, but less so and its not all
eagerly conducted inside.

Result.

Hmm. I hadn't really considered it to be a 'good' but 'cheap' solution
(as provided by these pre-fab garage Co's to keep the price down etc)
but maybe I was mistaken?

Well... it sure was popular. The reason it isnt today is its become
associated with the dreaded asbestos word.

So misunderstanding rather than anything else.

Bear in mind how long
those roofs have stayed up for, maintenance free.

True and points noted.

I thought I'd ask in case I missed out on something more sophisticated
and whilst it appears there are (as per Tim's examples) it would seem
to be going up another league as far as cost etc. If this were a £1M
barn conversion then the steel / foam might be a tidy solution or just
plain tin for a open port type cover where there could be some risk of
impact from kids throwing bricks (that might break cement fibre etc).

Ok, now I'll see how I can resolve the ridge issue (I never did get a
call back from the Co that supplied my garage in the first place) and
start sketching out some designs (mainly for the struts).

All the best ..

T i m

In message , T i m
writes

Seconds are slightly
damaged: dented/overlong etc.

I guess if that was say a sheet of polycarb or cement fibre you could
easily cut off the excess or lose a damaged corner somewhere where it
didn't matter. I seems this AS35 is quite a 'engineering' solution in
how the joints are made / sealed etc.

They are exempt from LPC approval so may
not be a good idea for a domestic installation.

Even for something like a fully detached workshop Tim?

Umm.. My insurers (NFU Mutual) were quick to ask if the foam insulation
met the regulations. ISTR this was changed a few years back so my
concern was that *seconds* might be the earlier version sold without LPC
approval. Mine were used for stables so no human occupation.

I used a metal cutting
circular saw to cut them but there may be other ways.

Ok ..

For a ridge, you will need internal and external folded section at
around £5.00/m. Ridge fillers at £0.75ea. Also 90 deg. barge at a
similar price. Fixings are not exorbitant.

That's another couple of hundred quid?

Delivery might be an issue as these usually arrive on an artic fitted
with a Moffet Mountie fork truck. Delivery to Herts. was £150.

So would be the same for me (Herts) as it's probably per load rather
than value?

I have some offcuts if you are that close and wanted to play.

I guess you have 3" cement fibre in self colour.

nips out with tape measure Yep ;-) While we are on the subject,
would you know what other colours are available please?

Slate blue (preferred by our planners as we have slate roofing
elsewhere), Van Dyke brown, Juniper green, Merlin Grey. Other colours to
special order.

I think Brookers at Hitchin might supply locally or try your local
builders merchant.

I found delivery times
on painted *big 6* sheets had reached 3 months, recently.

Oh, ok, well in the real world I have a lot of work to do before I get
to that stage so may not be a problem etc. re the painted sheets Tim,
is this something that would need re-doing in time?

Not really. The surface will degrade slowly and may support lichen in
damp climates. The paint will fade over the next ten years.

I suppose there are more D.I.Y. solutions such as fitting an undersheet
below the purlins filling the void with rockwool and then fitting
plastisol coated roof sheets over the top. Wall sheets are cheaper as
they are normally 0.5mm thick compared to 0.7mm for the roofing.

regards
--
Tim Lamb

In message
,
robgraham writes

Has anyone got any experience with Onduline ?

http://www.ondulinebuildingproducts.net/p0007.htm

Only that it needs a lot of supporting as it lacks the rigidity of
cement fibre.

On the condensation issue.... cement fibre is good because the surface
is porous and can retain some moisture to evaporate off when things warm
up. Steel can be coated with *felt* to a similar effect.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

The message
from contains these words:

T i m wrote:

Hi All,

I asked a while back about considerations when raising the pitch on a
garage / workshop roof (to make more of a 'loft' / storage space) and
I'm now, after seeing some in use, considering that pre coloured galv
steel roofing you often see in the bigger profiles cladding the walls
and roofs of the sheds we all know and love. ;-)

I'm told it would be much noisier than the existing corrugated cement
fibre

corrie is relatively noisy in the rain, but I dont see it being an
issue.


NT


Have you considered using Decra tiles? -- very easy to put in position
single-handed. Excellent end result.

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:22:30 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:


Even for something like a fully detached workshop Tim?

Umm.. My insurers (NFU Mutual) were quick to ask if the foam insulation
met the regulations. ISTR this was changed a few years back so my
concern was that *seconds* might be the earlier version sold without LPC
approval.

I see.

Mine were used for stables so no human occupation.

;-)


So would be the same for me (Herts) as it's probably per load rather
than value?

I have some offcuts if you are that close and wanted to play.

That's very kind and I may take you up on that, even if it's only to
see what this all looks / feels like in the real world. ;-)

While we are on the subject,
would you know what other colours are available please?

Slate blue (preferred by our planners as we have slate roofing
elsewhere), Van Dyke brown, Juniper green, Merlin Grey. Other colours to
special order.

Hmmm, (slate blue) .. and this would be available in the 3" pitch do
you know please Tim?

I think Brookers at Hitchin might supply locally or try your local
builders merchant.

I was going to pop into a pretty big one today but didn't get past in
time.

I found delivery times
on painted *big 6* sheets had reached 3 months, recently.

Oh, ok, well in the real world I have a lot of work to do before I get
to that stage so may not be a problem etc. re the painted sheets Tim,
is this something that would need re-doing in time?

Not really. The surface will degrade slowly and may support lichen in
damp climates. The paint will fade over the next ten years.

Ok ..

I suppose there are more D.I.Y. solutions such as fitting an undersheet
below the purlins filling the void with rockwool and then fitting
plastisol coated roof sheets over the top.

Were you listening in on a chat I was having with a mate yesterday?!

I was talking of making the roof A frames out of say 50 x 20mm thin
walled steel box, the purlins the same section set in between them (I
' brackets welded to the A frames) and smaller 'L' brackets (cut from
angle) fitted half way up the section and under the peak of the roof
sheet ridges where appropriate (self tappers or steel pop-rivets).

The idea is I would then have a pretty flat lower face for attaching
any lining.

Wall sheets are cheaper as
they are normally 0.5mm thick compared to 0.7mm for the roofing.

Will I still get the dreaded condensation though do you think Tim, or
should the insulation stop that?

Is there an alternative .. thin / flat cement fibre or plasterboard
maybe?

All the best ..

T i m

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:00:15 GMT, Appin wrote:


Have you considered using Decra tiles?

Not till now. ;-)

-- very easy to put in position
single-handed. Excellent end result.

It looks like they are designed to be alternatives to traditional
tiles / slates on traditional roofs? ie, I'm not sure they would suit
the big open frame that is my sort without some sort of sub roof
sheet?

All the best

T i m

The message
from T i m contains these words:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:00:15 GMT, Appin wrote:


Have you considered using Decra tiles?

Not till now. ;-)

-- very easy to put in position
single-handed. Excellent end result.

It looks like they are designed to be alternatives to traditional
tiles / slates on traditional roofs? ie, I'm not sure they would suit
the big open frame that is my sort without some sort of sub roof
sheet?

Certainly need something to fix them down to, but the end result is a
great deal better than most of the alternatives, imho.

T i m wrote:
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 17:56:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
T i m wrote:
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 06:31:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

OTOH if the OP can get fibre cement for less, I would.

Cheers, that should save me a few quid (you are very generous) ;-)

My terms are 10%

hehe

No
condensation problem,

Hmm, I do get *some* (I have to protect lathes and other kit to stop
them rusting).

sure - but nothing like corrugated iron, which is a real condensation
magnet. If your asbestos condenses a bit you could open a
waterworks with iron.

To be fair I'm not even sure if it is the cement fibre but the
steelwork it sits on (confirming your point).

No 'hot tin roof' ;-)

A few mm of insulator vs less than 1mm of good heat conductor.

Hmm ..

You still get hot roofs in the sun, but less so and its not all
eagerly conducted inside.

Result.

Hmm. I hadn't really considered it to be a 'good' but 'cheap' solution
(as provided by these pre-fab garage Co's to keep the price down etc)
but maybe I was mistaken?

Well... it sure was popular. The reason it isnt today is its become
associated with the dreaded asbestos word.

So misunderstanding rather than anything else.

Bear in mind how long
those roofs have stayed up for, maintenance free.

True and points noted.

I thought I'd ask in case I missed out on something more sophisticated
and whilst it appears there are (as per Tim's examples) it would seem
to be going up another league as far as cost etc. If this were a �1M
barn conversion then the steel / foam might be a tidy solution or just
plain tin for a open port type cover where there could be some risk of
impact from kids throwing bricks (that might break cement fibre etc).

Ok, now I'll see how I can resolve the ridge issue (I never did get a
call back from the Co that supplied my garage in the first place) and
start sketching out some designs (mainly for the struts).

All the best ..

T i m

There are plenty of more sophisticated options than corrugated
sheet, but mostly people dont want to spend thousands. Slate
looks way nicer.

I forget what the ridge issue you mentioned was tbh, but standard
ridge tiles of pretty much whatever style you want should do the
job, bedded on mortar. Half round ones tend to go well with the
corrugated style.


NT

T i m wrote:
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 17:56:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
T i m wrote:
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 06:31:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

OTOH if the OP can get fibre cement for less, I would.

Cheers, that should save me a few quid (you are very generous) ;-)

My terms are 10%

hehe

No
condensation problem,

Hmm, I do get *some* (I have to protect lathes and other kit to stop
them rusting).

sure - but nothing like corrugated iron, which is a real condensation
magnet. If your asbestos condenses a bit you could open a
waterworks with iron.

To be fair I'm not even sure if it is the cement fibre but the
steelwork it sits on (confirming your point).

No 'hot tin roof' ;-)

A few mm of insulator vs less than 1mm of good heat conductor.

Hmm ..

You still get hot roofs in the sun, but less so and its not all
eagerly conducted inside.

Result.

Hmm. I hadn't really considered it to be a 'good' but 'cheap' solution
(as provided by these pre-fab garage Co's to keep the price down etc)
but maybe I was mistaken?

Well... it sure was popular. The reason it isnt today is its become
associated with the dreaded asbestos word.

So misunderstanding rather than anything else.

Bear in mind how long
those roofs have stayed up for, maintenance free.

True and points noted.

I thought I'd ask in case I missed out on something more sophisticated
and whilst it appears there are (as per Tim's examples) it would seem
to be going up another league as far as cost etc. If this were a �1M
barn conversion then the steel / foam might be a tidy solution or just
plain tin for a open port type cover where there could be some risk of
impact from kids throwing bricks (that might break cement fibre etc).

Ok, now I'll see how I can resolve the ridge issue (I never did get a
call back from the Co that supplied my garage in the first place) and
start sketching out some designs (mainly for the struts).

All the best ..

T i m

If cost is desperate, its always possible to make flat fibre cement
sheet oneself. It would need to be rather thicker as its neither
compressed nor currugated. Just in case, not a recommendation.


NT

In message , T i m
writes

I have some offcuts if you are that close and wanted to play.

That's very kind and I may take you up on that, even if it's only to
see what this all looks / feels like in the real world. ;-)

OK

Hmmm, (slate blue) .. and this would be available in the 3" pitch do
you know please Tim?

Not from Steadmans AFAIK. They do a 5" (nominal 130mm pitch).

3" is more a domestic use with shorter spans. Ask your BM.

I was talking of making the roof A frames out of say 50 x 20mm thin
walled steel box, the purlins the same section set in between them (I
' brackets welded to the A frames) and smaller 'L' brackets (cut from
angle) fitted half way up the section and under the peak of the roof
sheet ridges where appropriate (self tappers or steel pop-rivets).

A steel *Z* purlin 140mm deep will carry big six fibre cement sheet over
a 20' span, spaced at about 4'.

The idea is I would then have a pretty flat lower face for attaching
any lining.

Yes.

Wall sheets are cheaper as
they are normally 0.5mm thick compared to 0.7mm for the roofing.

Will I still get the dreaded condensation though do you think Tim, or
should the insulation stop that?

Any single skin metal roof will attract condensation if the surface
temperature falls below the dew point of the air inside. This is a
particular problem in agricultural shallow pitched roofs over deep
litter cattle housing.

Is there an alternative .. thin / flat cement fibre or plasterboard
maybe?

Probably. There used to be a product which looked similar to hardboard
but was much more rigid and made from asbestos cement.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:42:00 GMT, Appin wrote:

The message
from T i m contains these words:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:00:15 GMT, Appin wrote:


Have you considered using Decra tiles?

Not till now. ;-)

-- very easy to put in position
single-handed. Excellent end result.

It looks like they are designed to be alternatives to traditional
tiles / slates on traditional roofs? ie, I'm not sure they would suit
the big open frame that is my sort without some sort of sub roof
sheet?

Certainly need something to fix them down to, but the end result is a
great deal better than most of the alternatives, imho.

I would have to use some sort of 'non combustible battens as I believe
that is part of the 'permitted development construction.

I suppose I could screw to a steel purlin as easily (if not quite as
fast) as nailing to a wooden one?

All the best ..

T i m

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 08:53:41 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:



3" is more a domestic use with shorter spans. Ask your BM.

Will do.

I was talking of making the roof A frames out of say 50 x 20mm thin
walled steel box, the purlins the same section set in between them (I
' brackets welded to the A frames) and smaller 'L' brackets (cut from
angle) fitted half way up the section and under the peak of the roof
sheet ridges where appropriate (self tappers or steel pop-rivets).

A steel *Z* purlin 140mm deep will carry big six fibre cement sheet over
a 20' span, spaced at about 4'.

Ok.

The idea is I would then have a pretty flat lower face for attaching
any lining.

Yes.

But only if I set the purlin (Z or otherwise) between and equally
flush with the A frames. I guess if the purlins were taller than the A
frame steels and were notched over them you could have the lower faces
level and the tops of the purlins above the A frame section. The
purlin wouldn't be as strong as if it hadn't been 'notched' but
possibly stronger (and flatter) than if it were separate sections?


Will I still get the dreaded condensation though do you think Tim, or
should the insulation stop that?

Any single skin metal roof will attract condensation if the surface
temperature falls below the dew point of the air inside. This is a
particular problem in agricultural shallow pitched roofs over deep
litter cattle housing.

Ok ..

Is there an alternative .. thin / flat cement fibre or plasterboard
maybe?

Probably. There used to be a product which looked similar to hardboard
but was much more rigid and made from asbestos cement.

Ah :-(

Ok, thanks again Tim

T i m

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:35:03 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


Ok, now I'll see how I can resolve the ridge issue (I never did get a
call back from the Co that supplied my garage in the first place) and
start sketching out some designs (mainly for the struts).


There are plenty of more sophisticated options than corrugated
sheet, but mostly people dont want to spend thousands. Slate
looks way nicer.

Agreed, and if someone did a sheet slate look alike that wasn't much
more expensive than CF and didn't supper the noise / heat /
condensation issues of un-insulated steel I'd be interested. ;-)

I forget what the ridge issue you mentioned was tbh,

Ok, the existing CF ridge is also a moulded corrugated section about
2' wide and about 170 degree 'arc' (to match the shallow pitch roof
ridge). This means it mates exactly with the roof sheets requiring no
infill to make a pretty tight joint all round.

but standard
ridge tiles of pretty much whatever style you want should do the
job, bedded on mortar. Half round ones tend to go well with the
corrugated style.

More like hip than ridge tiles then?

I can go with that and agree it would probably look ok (possibly
better than the existing) but will mean mucking about with cement
rather than it just being a nut_and_bolt type solution (but dooable of
course).

All the best ..

T i m

In message , T i m
writes

But only if I set the purlin (Z or otherwise) between and equally
flush with the A frames. I guess if the purlins were taller than the A
frame steels and were notched over them you could have the lower faces
level and the tops of the purlins above the A frame section. The
purlin wouldn't be as strong as if it hadn't been 'notched' but
possibly stronger (and flatter) than if it were separate sections?

I hadn't intended to redesign your building:-) Bear in mind that the end
walls may not be intended to take any more roof load than they do
already.

You could use fermacell building board for your inner lining but at some
stage your materials costs are going to exceed that of composite roof
sheets without the convenience.

Is there an alternative .. thin / flat cement fibre or plasterboard
maybe?

Probably. There used to be a product which looked similar to hardboard
but was much more rigid and made from asbestos cement.

Fermacell is gypsum and re-cycled paper.

Elsewhere you are concerned about close fitting ridge components for
cement fibre roofing. There is a version where the actual ridge is in
the form of two concentric cylinders. The pitch is variable and will
easily do 90deg.

regards

--
Tim Lamb