On 5 Mar, 15:20, Ed wrote:
Mayhem as neighbours' digiboxes all burst into flames at once due to
power surge
Last updated at 11:48am on 5th March 2008

A massive power surge triggered a number of TV digiboxes to burst into
flames on one street as firefighters dashed from house to house. The
set-top boxes began spitting sparks and residents living on the street
described the road as being "lit up like Blackpool Pier".

Firefighters had to go from house to house asking people to unplug
their electrical items as panicked home-owners ran into the street.
Home-owners ran into the street when their set-top digiboxes began the
spark and smoke after a power surge


snip excessive number of local's comments


Another neighbour on the street in Washington, Tyne and Wear, injured
his hand on the digital box wire because it had become so hot.


"The power was so strong one minute the houses were lit up like
Blackpool Pier and the next they were dim like candle light."

A spokesman for Tyne and Wear fire service confirmed that had they had
been called to the street and had never of heard of anything like it
before.

"We were called just before 7pm on Friday night by one person on the
street who said some cables in their house were on fire.

"While the fire service were there, other people came out to say they
were having the same problem.

"It's not something that I've been aware of happening before, but it
is possible that if the boxes were plugged into the mains electricity
and there was a surge something like this could happen."

Electricity company, NEDL, were called by the fire service and managed
to sort the problem out by about 11pm.


snip more pointless comments that tell you sweet FA

Despite the damage to Sharon and Jackie's house, the neighbours say
they have all received letters from NEDL saying the problem had been
out of their control and the families would have to claim on their
insurance.


So WTF is going on here? Whichever third-rate local rag this was taken
from obviously can't be bothered to pick up the phone and actually ask
'NEDL', and the Fire Service and Police don't seem to be
investigating, just putting it down as an "electrical fault".

How come it is "out of the control" of the electricity company, who
else's fault could it possibly be if the voltage suddenly increases?

We're obviously not being told the full story here, could it be
something sinister such as MI5 testing a fire-raising technique to
harass or terminate undesirables?

wrote in message
...
On 5 Mar, 15:20, Ed wrote:
Mayhem as neighbours' digiboxes all burst into flames at once due to
power surge
Last updated at 11:48am on 5th March 2008

A massive power surge triggered a number of TV digiboxes to burst into
flames on one street as firefighters dashed from house to house. The
set-top boxes began spitting sparks and residents living on the street
described the road as being "lit up like Blackpool Pier".

Firefighters had to go from house to house asking people to unplug
their electrical items as panicked home-owners ran into the street.
Home-owners ran into the street when their set-top digiboxes began the
spark and smoke after a power surge


snip excessive number of local's comments


Another neighbour on the street in Washington, Tyne and Wear, injured
his hand on the digital box wire because it had become so hot.


"The power was so strong one minute the houses were lit up like
Blackpool Pier and the next they were dim like candle light."

A spokesman for Tyne and Wear fire service confirmed that had they had
been called to the street and had never of heard of anything like it
before.

"We were called just before 7pm on Friday night by one person on the
street who said some cables in their house were on fire.

"While the fire service were there, other people came out to say they
were having the same problem.

"It's not something that I've been aware of happening before, but it
is possible that if the boxes were plugged into the mains electricity
and there was a surge something like this could happen."

Electricity company, NEDL, were called by the fire service and managed
to sort the problem out by about 11pm.


snip more pointless comments that tell you sweet FA

Despite the damage to Sharon and Jackie's house, the neighbours say
they have all received letters from NEDL saying the problem had been
out of their control and the families would have to claim on their
insurance.


So WTF is going on here? Whichever third-rate local rag this was taken
from obviously can't be bothered to pick up the phone and actually ask
'NEDL', and the Fire Service and Police don't seem to be
investigating, just putting it down as an "electrical fault".

How come it is "out of the control" of the electricity company, who
else's fault could it possibly be if the voltage suddenly increases?

We're obviously not being told the full story here, could it be
something sinister such as MI5 testing a fire-raising technique to
harass or terminate undesirables?


IIRC, falling off the back of a lorry can also adversely affect the
fire-resistance of these units.

Janitor of Lunacy wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 5 Mar, 15:20, Ed wrote:
Mayhem as neighbours' digiboxes all burst into flames at once due to
power surge
Last updated at 11:48am on 5th March 2008

A massive power surge triggered a number of TV digiboxes to burst into
flames on one street as firefighters dashed from house to house. The
set-top boxes began spitting sparks and residents living on the street
described the road as being "lit up like Blackpool Pier".

Firefighters had to go from house to house asking people to unplug
their electrical items as panicked home-owners ran into the street.
Home-owners ran into the street when their set-top digiboxes began the
spark and smoke after a power surge

snip excessive number of local's comments

Another neighbour on the street in Washington, Tyne and Wear, injured
his hand on the digital box wire because it had become so hot.

"The power was so strong one minute the houses were lit up like
Blackpool Pier and the next they were dim like candle light."

A spokesman for Tyne and Wear fire service confirmed that had they had
been called to the street and had never of heard of anything like it
before.

"We were called just before 7pm on Friday night by one person on the
street who said some cables in their house were on fire.

"While the fire service were there, other people came out to say they
were having the same problem.

"It's not something that I've been aware of happening before, but it
is possible that if the boxes were plugged into the mains electricity
and there was a surge something like this could happen."

Electricity company, NEDL, were called by the fire service and managed
to sort the problem out by about 11pm.

snip more pointless comments that tell you sweet FA

Despite the damage to Sharon and Jackie's house, the neighbours say
they have all received letters from NEDL saying the problem had been
out of their control and the families would have to claim on their
insurance.

So WTF is going on here? Whichever third-rate local rag this was taken
from obviously can't be bothered to pick up the phone and actually ask
'NEDL', and the Fire Service and Police don't seem to be
investigating, just putting it down as an "electrical fault".

How come it is "out of the control" of the electricity company, who
else's fault could it possibly be if the voltage suddenly increases?

We're obviously not being told the full story here, could it be
something sinister such as MI5 testing a fire-raising technique to
harass or terminate undesirables?


IIRC, falling off the back of a lorry can also adversely affect the
fire-resistance of these units.



I live in the town where these set top boxes did this. It was all in one
street last Friday. The part of town where it happened is where the
richer people live...

It's also the street next to where the MATV system for the town went
down the previous night - Virgin media refuses to acknowledge the
problem but if anyone knows what the MATV system is - can you explain it
to VM since 10,000 households lost their TV the night before...

If anyone wonders... MATV is what used to be Rediffusion back in the 70s...

--
Robbie

On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:48:10 -0800 (PST),
"
wrote:

On 5 Mar, 15:20, Ed wrote:
Mayhem as neighbours' digiboxes all burst into flames at once due to
power surge
Last updated at 11:48am on 5th March 2008
story snipped


So WTF is going on here? Whichever third-rate local rag this was taken
from obviously can't be bothered to pick up the phone and actually ask
'NEDL', and the Fire Service and Police don't seem to be
investigating, just putting it down as an "electrical fault".


It wasn't a third-rate local rag - it was a third rate wannabe
national paper called the Daily Mail.

As usual from them - half a tale.

wrote:


How come it is "out of the control" of the electricity company, who
else's fault could it possibly be if the voltage suddenly increases?

Well, how about the cable tv company!
How about if vandals broke into the local distibution box and shorted
240v into the cable wire distributor - 240v into the aerial socket of
every box - BANG!


We're obviously not being told the full story here, could it be
something sinister such as MI5 testing a fire-raising technique to
harass or terminate undesirables?

Blah wrote:
wrote:


How come it is "out of the control" of the electricity company, who
else's fault could it possibly be if the voltage suddenly increases?

Well, how about the cable tv company!
How about if vandals broke into the local distibution box and shorted
240v into the cable wire distributor - 240v into the aerial socket of
every box - BANG!

Which would explain why fuses weren't tripped (assuming that cable boxes
have fuses in their power supplies).

"Anton Gÿsen" wrote in message
...
Blah wrote:
wrote:


How come it is "out of the control" of the electricity company, who
else's fault could it possibly be if the voltage suddenly increases?

Well, how about the cable tv company!
How about if vandals broke into the local distibution box and shorted
240v into the cable wire distributor - 240v into the aerial socket of
every box - BANG!

Which would explain why fuses weren't tripped (assuming that cable boxes
have fuses in their power supplies).

Surely the system would be earth bonded at the streetboxes. I can't imagine
the whole structure of a cable TV system would be 'floating' with respect to
ground. Apart from anything else that would be contrary to all sorts of
rules and regulations. I don't actually know anything about the way it's
done, but I would have thought that the feeders to each dwelling would be
earthed, and/or there would be some isolation fitted.

Bill

On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 00:58:56 -0000, Bill Wright wrote:

Surely the system would be earth bonded at the streetboxes. I can't
imagine the whole structure of a cable TV system would be 'floating'
with respect to ground.

The screens yes I'd expect to be bonded to real earth at the street box.
The core wouldn't be though.

... there would be some isolation fitted.

I would expect the core to be isoloated in the box.

Does seem a little odd but as has been said I think we are only getting
half the facts When ever has a journo let the truth get in the way of a
good story...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 07:52:40 +0000 (GMT), Dave Liquorice wrote:

Does seem a little odd but as has been said I think we are only getting
half the facts When ever has a journo let the truth get in the way of a
good story...

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/S...-in.3844143.jp

Basically the Mail story with a few extra snippets and a picture.

Looks to me like a problem with CATV network rather than power
distribution.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:50:59 +0000, Blah wrote:

Well, how about the cable tv company!
How about if vandals broke into the local distibution box and shorted
240v into the cable wire distributor - 240v into the aerial socket of
every box - BANG!

It shouldn't do a lot of damage, if any. The aerial input should be
isolated by a high voltage low value capacitor that will be almost an
open circuit at 50Hz.

--
Cynic

On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:48:10 -0800 (PST),
"
wrote:


How come it is "out of the control" of the electricity company, who
else's fault could it possibly be if the voltage suddenly increases?

Sounds like a broken neutral wire between the 3-phase distribution
transformer and the sections being fed from the common neutral. In
such a case the houses connected to one phase are effectively in
series with the houses on the other phases. Voltages will be
inversely proportional to the % load on the particular phase, and
could vary between between zero (all the load on that phase) and 380V
(no load on that phase)

It used to happen a fair bit where I used to live on account of
thieves cutting and stealing the neutral wire on the overhead cables.
Usually the loads are balanced evenly enough that there is not a huge
increase or decrease in voltage.

--
Cynic

wrote in message
...
On 5 Mar, 15:20, Ed wrote:
Mayhem as neighbours' digiboxes all burst into flames at once due to
power surge
Last updated at 11:48am on 5th March 2008

A massive power surge triggered a number of TV digiboxes to burst into
flames on one street as firefighters dashed from house to house. The
set-top boxes began spitting sparks and residents living on the street
described the road as being "lit up like Blackpool Pier".



Sounds like a not unusual (if overhyped report of a) phase to neutral fault.
415V appears on the mains input, to the frequent dismay of switch mode power
supplies etc.

R. Mark Clayton wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 5 Mar, 15:20, Ed wrote:
Mayhem as neighbours' digiboxes all burst into flames at once due to
power surge
Last updated at 11:48am on 5th March 2008

A massive power surge triggered a number of TV digiboxes to burst into
flames on one street as firefighters dashed from house to house. The
set-top boxes began spitting sparks and residents living on the street
described the road as being "lit up like Blackpool Pier".



Sounds like a not unusual (if overhyped report of a) phase to neutral fault.
415V appears on the mains input, to the frequent dismay of switch mode power
supplies etc.


If 415v appeared on a house mains supply - it wouldn't just damage
Digiboxes.

--
Sue

Palindrome wrote:

R. Mark Clayton wrote:
wrote in message
On 5 Mar, 15:20, Ed wrote:
A massive power surge triggered a number of TV digiboxes to burst into
flames on one street as firefighters dashed from house to house. The
set-top boxes began spitting sparks and residents living on the street
described the road as being "lit up like Blackpool Pier".

Sounds like a not unusual (if overhyped report of a) phase to neutral fault.
415V appears on the mains input, to the frequent dismay of switch mode power
supplies etc.

If 415v appeared on a house mains supply - it wouldn't just damage
Digiboxes.

Other stuff would be damaged by 415V, yes. But it's arguably a design
fault if it makes something spark and smoke. They probably all had the
same model of digibox.

--
Dave Farrance

"Dave Farrance" wrote in message
...
Palindrome wrote:

R. Mark Clayton wrote:
wrote in message
On 5 Mar, 15:20, Ed wrote:
A massive power surge triggered a number of TV digiboxes to burst into
flames on one street as firefighters dashed from house to house. The
set-top boxes began spitting sparks and residents living on the street
described the road as being "lit up like Blackpool Pier".

Sounds like a not unusual (if overhyped report of a) phase to neutral
fault.
415V appears on the mains input, to the frequent dismay of switch mode
power
supplies etc.

If 415v appeared on a house mains supply - it wouldn't just damage
Digiboxes.

Other stuff would be damaged by 415V, yes. But it's arguably a design
fault if it makes something spark and smoke. They probably all had the
same model of digibox.


It would be help if we knew what they meant by 'digital television boxes',
do
they mean Virgin digital cable boxes or ordinary cheap 20 quid Freeview
receivers?

--
Dave Farrance

On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:27:52 GMT, "Ivan"
wrote:

It would be help if we knew what they meant by 'digital television boxes',
do
they mean Virgin digital cable boxes or ordinary cheap 20 quid Freeview
receivers?

Must be cable, otherwise they wouldn't have wallboxes.

--

Dave Farrance wrote:
Palindrome wrote:


If 415v appeared on a house mains supply - it wouldn't just damage
Digiboxes.

Other stuff would be damaged by 415V, yes. But it's arguably a design
fault if it makes something spark and smoke. They probably all had
the
same model of digibox.

How easy would it be to reproduce this fault with a "Socket to socket"
extension lead between two houses that were on different phases of the
mains?

I'm imagining a scenario of an electrician temporarily powering up a house
with an extension lead from a neighbour (when moving a meter say) and then
forgetting about the cable when he reconnects to the mains.

Tim

On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 15:21:40 -0000, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

How easy would it be to reproduce this fault with a "Socket to socket"
extension lead between two houses that were on different phases of the
mains?

I'm imagining a scenario of an electrician temporarily powering up a house
with an extension lead from a neighbour (when moving a meter say) and then
forgetting about the cable when he reconnects to the mains.

It wouldn't happen with that setup. What you would need to do is the
following:

Connect the live pin of one socket to the live of one phase. Connect
the live pin of another socket to the live of a different phase.
Connect a wire between the neutral pins of both sockets, but *do not
connect anything to the mains neutral*. This simulates a fault where
the neutral has been broken to the distribution transformer, but is
not broken to either socket.

Plug a 60W lamp into one socket. It will not light, and will have no
voltage across it. Plug 60W bulbs into *both* sockets. They will
both light at normal brightness and you will measure normal mains
voltage across each of them. Now replace one of the 60W bulbs with a
100W bulb. The 100W bulb will be dimmer than normal and will have
less than mains voltage across it. The 60W bulb will be brighter than
normal and have higher than mains voltage across it. Now replace the
100W bulb with a 2KW heater - the heater will have very low voltage
across it and the 60W bulb will have a very high voltage across it.

--
Cynic

On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 01:29:57 -0000,it is alleged that "R. Mark Clayton"
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:


wrote in message
...
On 5 Mar, 15:20, Ed wrote:
Mayhem as neighbours' digiboxes all burst into flames at once due to
power surge
Last updated at 11:48am on 5th March 2008

A massive power surge triggered a number of TV digiboxes to burst into
flames on one street as firefighters dashed from house to house. The
set-top boxes began spitting sparks and residents living on the street
described the road as being "lit up like Blackpool Pier".



Sounds like a not unusual (if overhyped report of a) phase to neutral fault.
415V appears on the mains input, to the frequent dismay of switch mode power
supplies etc.

What immediately occurred to me was an open circuit neutral somewhere,
causing the neutral point to wander around the 0v point, causing the
effects noted: "The power was so strong one minute the houses were lit
up like Blackpool Pier and the next they were dim like candle light."

As you mentioned, SMPS units hate this. I'd be surprised if a few
computers etc hadn't died also.

The 'only affecting sky digiboxes' part is probably part of the Daily
Mail's usual conspiracy theories and generall scaremongering.


--
_
( ) ASCII ribbon campaign against html e-mail
X and usenet posts
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On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:35:50 +0000, Chip
wrote:

The 'only affecting sky digiboxes' part is probably part of the Daily
Mail's usual conspiracy theories and generall scaremongering.

They didn't actually say they were Sky digiboxes at all. The photo
shows a Virgin installation.

--