If I were to fit an upstairs radiator I guess I would drain the
radiators by the air bleed on one of the down stairs radiators?
(though maybe quite slow and messy)

If I were to replace a downstairs radiator I guess I would just undo
the tap to the radiator and catch the water as best as possible?

Is there any better way to do this? If I am fitting radiators 1 or 2
at a time to replace the whole house woudl it be a good idea to fit a
drain tap (that could be connected to a garden hose to drain outside)
somehow?

"405 TD Estate" wrote in message
...
If I were to fit an upstairs radiator I guess I would drain the
radiators by the air bleed on one of the down stairs radiators?
(though maybe quite slow and messy)

If I were to replace a downstairs radiator I guess I would just undo
the tap to the radiator and catch the water as best as possible?

Is there any better way to do this? If I am fitting radiators 1 or 2
at a time to replace the whole house woudl it be a good idea to fit a
drain tap (that could be connected to a garden hose to drain outside)
somehow?


You can't drain a rad from the bleed screw, the bleed screws are at the top
for abvious reasons.
You can get pipe freezer kits if you are only changing one rad. Draining
the system is not hard, I had to do it one evening about 10.30pm when one of
my rad valves snapped.

On 2007-12-04 08:54:28 +0000, 405 TD Estate said:

If I were to fit an upstairs radiator I guess I would drain the
radiators by the air bleed on one of the down stairs radiators?
(though maybe quite slow and messy)

No, you need to have and use a drain valve fitted downstairs. If
there isn't one, then you will have to drain at a downstairs radiator
by opening a valve union carefully over something to catch the water.

Heating water is able to indellibly stain carpet and other items.



If I were to replace a downstairs radiator I guess I would just undo
the tap to the radiator and catch the water as best as possible?

Is there any better way to do this? If I am fitting radiators 1 or 2
at a time to replace the whole house woudl it be a good idea to fit a
drain tap (that could be connected to a garden hose to drain outside)
somehow?

The best solution would be to replace all the radiators in one go.
The problem with draining and refilling is that you are using fresh
water each time. Inhibitor should be added to prevent corrosion when
a system is refilled. If you run off the water to waste each time, it
means a new dose of inhibitor.

One strategy, if you were going to replace all radiators in say a
period of a month would be not to bother with inhibitor and refill each
time without until the end. However, draining and refilling is time
consuming. Undr these circumstances you wouldn't have much corrosion
problem.

Another would be to use a cheap inhibitor each time (can be bought for
around £5-8) and dump it each time. That would allow you to do the
work over a longer period. Then at the end you could use a proper
inhibitor such as Fernox or Sentinel.

A third approach would be to have a means to store the heating water
and then to put the same back. I use this method for my workshop
secondary circuit. This runs part way outside and underground and
even though well insulated, in the case of equipment failure there is a
risk of freezing. So the circuit is filled with a solution of Fernox
Alphi-11 which also contains an antifreeze. In case of a need to
drain, I can do so into storage vessels and then pump it back in again
after maintenance using a pressure sprayer plus adaptor for the purpose.

Another general tip if you are replacing radiators is to buy good
quality valves such as Invensys TRV4s for the TRVs and Pegler Terriers
for the lockshield valves. There is a version of these that has a
drain on the valve tail on the radiator side. Thus you can close the
valves and open the drain at one radiator (e.g. for decorating) without
draining the entire system.

Overall, the best idea is to do all the radiators in one go if you can.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47552309@qaanaaq...
On 2007-12-04 08:54:28 +0000, 405 TD Estate said:

If I were to fit an upstairs radiator I guess I would drain the
radiators by the air bleed on one of the down stairs radiators?
(though maybe quite slow and messy)

No, you need to have and use a drain valve fitted downstairs. If there
isn't one, then you will have to drain at a downstairs radiator by opening
a valve union carefully over something to catch the water.

Heating water is able to indellibly stain carpet and other items.



If I were to replace a downstairs radiator I guess I would just undo
the tap to the radiator and catch the water as best as possible?

Is there any better way to do this? If I am fitting radiators 1 or 2
at a time to replace the whole house woudl it be a good idea to fit a
drain tap (that could be connected to a garden hose to drain outside)
somehow?

The best solution would be to replace all the radiators in one go. The
problem with draining and refilling is that you are using fresh water each
time. Inhibitor should be added to prevent corrosion when a system is
refilled. If you run off the water to waste each time, it means a new
dose of inhibitor.

One strategy, if you were going to replace all radiators in say a period
of a month would be not to bother with inhibitor and refill each time
without until the end. However, draining and refilling is time consuming.
Undr these circumstances you wouldn't have much corrosion problem.

Another would be to use a cheap inhibitor each time (can be bought for
around £5-8) and dump it each time. That would allow you to do the work
over a longer period. Then at the end you could use a proper inhibitor
such as Fernox or Sentinel.

A third approach would be to have a means to store the heating water and
then to put the same back. I use this method for my workshop secondary
circuit. This runs part way outside and underground and even though
well insulated, in the case of equipment failure there is a risk of
freezing. So the circuit is filled with a solution of Fernox Alphi-11
which also contains an antifreeze. In case of a need to drain, I can do
so into storage vessels and then pump it back in again after maintenance
using a pressure sprayer plus adaptor for the purpose.

Another general tip if you are replacing radiators is to buy good quality
valves such as Invensys TRV4s for the TRVs and Pegler Terriers for the
lockshield valves. There is a version of these that has a drain on the
valve tail on the radiator side. Thus you can close the valves and open
the drain at one radiator (e.g. for decorating) without draining the
entire system.

Overall, the best idea is to do all the radiators in one go if you can.



I think all systems should have a tee to a valve that then leads to a pipe
that goes through an exterior wall.

I also think systems should have a decent filter / separator so that
particles can be easily trapped and removed.


--


--
John

"405 TD Estate" wrote in message
...
If I were to fit an upstairs radiator I guess I would drain the
radiators by the air bleed on one of the down stairs radiators?
(though maybe quite slow and messy)

If I were to replace a downstairs radiator I guess I would just undo
the tap to the radiator and catch the water as best as possible?

Is there any better way to do this? If I am fitting radiators 1 or 2
at a time to replace the whole house woudl it be a good idea to fit a
drain tap (that could be connected to a garden hose to drain outside)
somehow?

I quite frequently have to remove single radiators to decorate behind
them. Here's how I do it:

- Turn off both radiator valves (one is usually a lockshield valve where
you have to remove the plastic cap and use a spanner or screwdriver
to close the valve - make a note of how many turns you needed to close
it, you will need to open it the same amount when you have refilled the
rad in order to retain the balancing of the system).
- Choose the rad valve at the opposite end to bleed screw (that's
usually the lowest end of the rad) and either use a piece of kitchen
foil to fashion a funnel that goes up behind the valve and rad tail and
leads the water down into a bowl or tray or do something similar
with a plastic bag and string, and tie the bag around the pipe either
side of the nut, leaving an opening to use a spanner on the nut that
fixes the valve to the rad tail.
- Unscrew the nut a little at a time and adjust the foil or bag so that
any water runs into the bowl. If you have a cup and second bowl
you can bale out the first bowl to avoid having to stop the flow of
water while emptying a single bowl.
- After a minute or so you will have to undo and remove the rad
bleed screw to allow air in at the top of the rad.
- After all the water has drained off you can completely unscrew
the nuts to the valves and remove the rad, but beware there will
still be a little bit of very dirty water at the bottom of the rad. I
usually tie a plastic bag over the ends of the rad tails to prevent
messing up the carpet as I lift the rad off.

It's a bit slow and tedious, but if you are only removing one or
two rads at a time it beats draining the whole system.

David

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 00:54:28 -0800 (PST) someone who may be 405 TD
Estate wrote this:-

If I am fitting radiators 1 or 2
at a time to replace the whole house woudl it be a good idea to fit a
drain tap (that could be connected to a garden hose to drain outside)
somehow?

Yes.

You may find you need to fit more than one to drain everything down.

The ideal system is a valve inside the house which allows the water
to drain via a permanent pipe that runs outside.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

405 TD Estate wrote:
If I were to fit an upstairs radiator I guess I would drain the
radiators by the air bleed on one of the down stairs radiators?
(though maybe quite slow and messy)

If I were to replace a downstairs radiator I guess I would just undo
the tap to the radiator and catch the water as best as possible?

Is there any better way to do this? If I am fitting radiators 1 or 2
at a time to replace the whole house woudl it be a good idea to fit a
drain tap (that could be connected to a garden hose to drain outside)
somehow?

I'd be surprised if there was no drain somewhere in your system. They
are quite small so you could miss it. Mine is half hidden behind the
floor-mounted boiler.

If there really isn't one, then the advice to change more than one
radiator is a good one. Each time you drain you waste the inhibitor. Of
course for an upstairs rad you only need to drain down to just below it,
not the whole system.

Non-one has mentioned freezers. If you find you need to replace just one
rad, and the valves, then you can freeze the pipe stubs each side after
removing the rad. This gives you about 20 minutes or so to whip the
valves off and replace them. You can do the rad much more slowly. The
advice to use a valve with a drain on a downstairs rad is good. That's
my next job. My drain valve has sludged up.

You might find that the new rad is a bit narrower. You can get sliding
fittings that allow you to fit one that is up to about 5cm narrower. I
recently used one for the first time with some scepticism, but it has
been fine. Mine is not a pressurised system. I don't think the sliders
are suitable for them.

Good luck

Peter Scott

"Peter Scott" wrote in message
...

Non-one has mentioned freezers. If you find you need to replace just one
rad, and the valves, then you can freeze the pipe stubs each side after
removing the rad. This gives you about 20 minutes or so to whip the valves
off and replace them. You can do the rad much more slowly. The advice to
use a valve with a drain on a downstairs rad is good. That's my next job.
My drain valve has sludged up.


I did in my post.

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:54:28 -0800, 405 TD Estate wrote:

If I were to fit an upstairs radiator I guess I would drain the
radiators by the air bleed on one of the down stairs radiators? (though
maybe quite slow and messy)

If I were to replace a downstairs radiator I guess I would just undo the
tap to the radiator and catch the water as best as possible?

Is there any better way to do this? If I am fitting radiators 1 or 2 at
a time to replace the whole house woudl it be a good idea to fit a drain
tap (that could be connected to a garden hose to drain outside) somehow?

If you think this is the way forward I suggest you get yourself "up to
speed" on the subject with the FAQs and Wiki.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Dec 4, 9:40 am, "diy-newby" wrote:
"405 TD Estate" wrote in ...

If I were to fit an upstairs radiator I guess I would drain the
radiators by the air bleed on one of the down stairs radiators?
(though maybe quite slow and messy)

You can't drain a rad from the bleed screw, the bleed screws are at the top
for abvious reasons.

Yes. But he's not suggesting draining the rad from the bleed screw,
he's suggesting draining the UPSTAIRS pipework from a DOWNSTAIRS bleed
screw.

It would work too - eventually.

diy-newby wrote:
"Peter Scott" wrote in message
...
Non-one has mentioned freezers. If you find you need to replace just one
rad, and the valves, then you can freeze the pipe stubs each side after
removing the rad. This gives you about 20 minutes or so to whip the valves
off and replace them. You can do the rad much more slowly. The advice to
use a valve with a drain on a downstairs rad is good. That's my next job.
My drain valve has sludged up.


I did in my post.


Sorry. How did I miss it?

Peter Scott

Andy Hall wrote:

On 2007-12-04 08:54:28 +0000, 405 TD Estate said:

If I were to fit an upstairs radiator I guess I would drain the
radiators by the air bleed on one of the down stairs radiators?
(though maybe quite slow and messy)


No, you need to have and use a drain valve fitted downstairs. If
there isn't one, then you will have to drain at a downstairs radiator by
opening a valve union carefully over something to catch the water.

This raises a point that I had not considered before.

We used to have a floor mounted cast iron boiler until a few years ago
and it had a drain point at near enough floor level. I have drained it
several times, quite successfully.

Since then, we have had a new boiler fitted that has the system drain at
about 5 foot from the floor and a radiator fitted in the utility room
that used to house the old boiler. The rad does not have any way to
drain it down, as it is tapped into a rad that is on the half landing of
the stairs. Hence it is a dead leg. This rad has SOVs to enable me to
drain this part of the heating down by removing/changing a rad valve, but...

How do I drain down the lower floor of the heating system? When the
boiler drain is above all the lower floor rads.

I have considered adding a combined rad SOV and drain point to the
lounge rad and venting it to a pipe outside of the house. The drain
point will not be visible from the lounge as it is behind the chairs.

If I do this, will all the heating water get drawn out of the system?

As I said earlier, when draining from the old boiler, I never took into
account that the lower floor pipes were fed from upstairs.

Dave