I just wanted to know how long you would expect NiCad batteries to
last in a drill that is used maybe 2-3 times per week requiring maybe
1 to 2 charges per week.

The drill has 2 battery packs and both would only last a short time
recantly after I owned the drill about a year. I remember reading
NiCad batteries should be able to be recharged about 1000 times (which
at recharging each pack only once a week is 20 years on my useage)

The drill is a £35 job from Argos and I'm guessing the batteries are
poor quality. luckily they have replaced the drill so i now have a new
drill and another years guarantee but i'm wondering if in 1 year the
batteries will be shot again (probably).

Should I take it back and get the £100 Matika drill + 3 batteries?
(not a hammer drill though)

Other than this I am happy with the drill - 2 speed, brake, hammer
function (good in everything except concrete) 13mm keyless chuck
(difficult to tighten enough sometimes though)

The batteries are chinese made and state 1.5Ah which is quite good
really.

In article
,
405 TD Estate wrote:
The drill has 2 battery packs and both would only last a short time
recantly after I owned the drill about a year. I remember reading
NiCad batteries should be able to be recharged about 1000 times (which
at recharging each pack only once a week is 20 years on my useage)

It depends on the quality of both the cells and charger. What kills
Ni-Cads *in a pack* is discharging them totally - as the cells will not
all be the same and there's the possibility of reverse charging occurring
on one or more. But overcharging is what really kills them.

The drill is a £35 job from Argos and I'm guessing the batteries are
poor quality. luckily they have replaced the drill so i now have a new
drill and another years guarantee but i'm wondering if in 1 year the
batteries will be shot again (probably).

It depends on the charger. If it's a cheap fast charger which doesn't shut
down when the battery is charged or cooks them even decent cells won't
have a long life.

Should I take it back and get the £100 Matika drill + 3 batteries?
(not a hammer drill though)

Other than this I am happy with the drill - 2 speed, brake, hammer
function (good in everything except concrete) 13mm keyless chuck
(difficult to tighten enough sometimes though)

The batteries are chinese made and state 1.5Ah which is quite good
really.

Not really - over 2 Ah is common with decent quality sub C cells.

It's usually pretty easy to modify a cheap charger into something more
sanitary like the standard 1/10th capacity constant current charge rate
which means in practice an overnight charge. Or indeed to use a pukka
intelligent fast one. But both would invalidate the warranty.

--
*The older you get, the better you realize you were.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

405 TD Estate wrote:
I just wanted to know how long you would expect NiCad batteries to
last in a drill that is used maybe 2-3 times per week requiring maybe
1 to 2 charges per week.

The drill has 2 battery packs and both would only last a short time
recantly after I owned the drill about a year. I remember reading
NiCad batteries should be able to be recharged about 1000 times (which
at recharging each pack only once a week is 20 years on my useage)

The drill is a £35 job from Argos and I'm guessing the batteries are
poor quality. luckily they have replaced the drill so i now have a new
drill and another years guarantee but i'm wondering if in 1 year the
batteries will be shot again (probably).

Should I take it back and get the £100 Matika drill + 3 batteries?
(not a hammer drill though)

Other than this I am happy with the drill - 2 speed, brake, hammer
function (good in everything except concrete) 13mm keyless chuck
(difficult to tighten enough sometimes though)

The batteries are chinese made and state 1.5Ah which is quite good
really.

I'd have a go at replacing the cells. Most difficult bit will be prising
the pack apart without destroying it. get some two-pack resin glue to
put it back together! The maker will almost certainly be using standard
sizes to save money. You can get rechargeables of all types, capacities
and sizes from companies such as
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/home/homepage.jsp

I think that the reason that drill batteries fail quickly, and I've had
that experience, is that they are used for a job then put away for a
while uncharged. I try to remember to recharge them every month or so if
I'm having a spell off the old diy.

good luck

Peter Scott

wrote:
On 3 Dec,
Peter Scott wrote:

I'd have a go at replacing the cells. Most difficult bit will be prising
the pack apart without destroying it. get some two-pack resin glue to
put it back together! The maker will almost certainly be using standard
sizes to save money. You can get rechargeables of all types, capacities
and sizes from companies such as
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/home/homepage.jsp

I thought of doing that, but the price of the individual cells cells made it
just as economic to get a new battery. I'm ending up replacing the drill as
well.


Yes. When I bought a cordless I asked what the price of a second battery
was. Only a pound less than the whole drill! I'm surprised that it isn't
economic to replace them, but you've obviously done your homework.

Peter Scott

In article ,
Peter Scott wrote:
I'm surprised that it isn't
economic to replace them, but you've obviously done your homework.

Like everything else these things cost per item by the bulk they're bought
in.

In theory, Ni-Cads can be damaged by soldering so factory packs are spot
welded. Replacements are usually bought with 'tags' welded to them for
solder connections.

Rapid electronics have a modest capacity tagged sub C for 1.60 each
dropping through 1.50 for 10 to 1.30 for 500. ;-) Plus VAT. So for an 18
volt pack you're talking 23 quid. Best to make up the order to over 25
quid to get free delivery.

I've used their larger capacity (2 Ah) ones in the past at 1.75 per 10 and
found them very good. Good quality cells can actually improve the
performance of a cheap drill due to their lower internal impedance over
the standard ones.

But it's worth shopping around the electronic suppliers to see who has
special offers, etc.

--
*Also too, never, ever use repetitive redundancies *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

It depends on the quality of both the cells and charger. What kills
Ni-Cads *in a pack* is discharging them totally - as the cells will not
all be the same and there's the possibility of reverse charging occurring
on one or more. But overcharging is what really kills them.

Yes sometimes I run the drill until it can only just turn with the
load applied (battery flat) - maybe this is bad.
I can try putting the battery on charge after every job but I thought
also Nicad's have a memory effect where if you don't completely
discharge then they loose capacity which is why I would often run a
pack into the ground before changing batteries.



It depends on the charger. If it's a cheap fast charger which doesn't shut
down when the battery is charged or cooks them even decent cells won't
have a long life.

It's a 1 hour charger with a 1 hour timer (for completely discharged
pack) and also a thermomitor which switches the pack off when it
starts to get warm, I did wonder how good this would be - will damage
occur to the cells after they are full and are getting warm before the
switch senses it? It also says dont charge below 5 degrees or
something which I ignored and put them on charge in the garage where
it may be a few degrees below 0 degrees on cold nights. Maybe I should
put the charger in the house when it's cold?

Should I take it back and get the £100 Matika drill + 3 batteries?
(not a hammer drill though)
Other than this I am happy with the drill - 2 speed, brake, hammer
function (good in everything except concrete) 13mm keyless chuck
(difficult to tighten enough sometimes though)
The batteries are chinese made and state 1.5Ah which is quite good
really.

Not really - over 2 Ah is common with decent quality sub C cells.

Maybe but the RRP £180 Matika drill comes with 1.3 AH batteries. If I
were replacing batteries I would try to use NiNH AA cells - available
very cheap off ebay and capacities over 2.5Ah - would be a lot lighter
than the Nicads and last nearly twice as long. Say £15 to £20 for 15
cells for 1 packs worth but I don't know how well they would recharge
from the stock NiCad charger (dont know the differences between a
NiCad and NiMH chargers)


It's usually pretty easy to modify a cheap charger into something more
sanitary like the standard 1/10th capacity constant current charge rate
which means in practice an overnight charge. Or indeed to use a pukka
intelligent fast one. But both would invalidate the warranty.

--
*The older you get, the better you realize you were.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I was lucky in that I got a new drill, 2 battery packs charger etc
(and even a voucher for £2 since the drill is cheaper now) and a new 1
year guarantee to go with the new drill.

But still I wonder if I would be better off spending ££££ on a brand
name drill whose batteries will still be v.strong in 1 year (or maybe
they will be as bad as my argos drill?)

I think I will leave it at least another year since i'm happy at the
moment

405 TD Estate wrote:

It depends on the quality of both the cells and charger. What kills
Ni-Cads *in a pack* is discharging them totally - as the cells will not
all be the same and there's the possibility of reverse charging occurring
on one or more. But overcharging is what really kills them.

Yes sometimes I run the drill until it can only just turn with the
load applied (battery flat) - maybe this is bad.

Yup, that will shag them fast. Run it til you start to notice a drop off
in performance. Then stop. Also if you have been using it heavily then
allow the battery to cool for 20 mins before charging.

I can try putting the battery on charge after every job but I thought
also Nicad's have a memory effect where if you don't completely
discharge then they loose capacity which is why I would often run a
pack into the ground before changing batteries.

If the charger is not a good design, then that may kill em anyway.

It's a 1 hour charger with a 1 hour timer (for completely discharged
pack) and also a thermomitor which switches the pack off when it
starts to get warm, I did wonder how good this would be - will damage
occur to the cells after they are full and are getting warm before the
switch senses it? It also says dont charge below 5 degrees or
something which I ignored and put them on charge in the garage where
it may be a few degrees below 0 degrees on cold nights. Maybe I should
put the charger in the house when it's cold?

You really need a delta peak sensing charger for NiCds, with a separate
thermal trip to detect fault conditions.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Dec 3, 9:23 am, 405 TD Estate wrote:
I just wanted to know how long you would expect NiCad batteries to
last in a drill that is used maybe 2-3 times per week requiring maybe
1 to 2 charges per week.

The drill has 2 battery packs and both would only last a short time
recantly after I owned the drill about a year. I remember reading
NiCad batteries should be able to be recharged about 1000 times (which
at recharging each pack only once a week is 20 years on my useage)

The drill is a £35 job from Argos and I'm guessing the batteries are
poor quality. luckily they have replaced the drill so i now have a new
drill and another years guarantee but i'm wondering if in 1

Have you got that in writing?

Replacement under warranty does not reset the warranty period.

MBQ

405 TD Estate wrote:
I just wanted to know how long you would expect NiCad batteries to
last in a drill that is used maybe 2-3 times per week requiring maybe
1 to 2 charges per week.

The drill has 2 battery packs and both would only last a short time
recantly after I owned the drill about a year. I remember reading
NiCad batteries should be able to be recharged about 1000 times (which
at recharging each pack only once a week is 20 years on my useage)

The drill is a £35 job from Argos and I'm guessing the batteries are
poor quality. luckily they have replaced the drill so i now have a new
drill and another years guarantee but i'm wondering if in 1 year the
batteries will be shot again (probably).

I think you have answered your own question. Look at what you have for
£35 - drill, 2 x batteries, charger, Argos markup - not much left for
quality.


Should I take it back and get the £100 Matika drill + 3 batteries?
(not a hammer drill though)

The Makita 8930 is a hammer drill.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/77831/...mbi-Drill-18V#

Other than this I am happy with the drill - 2 speed, brake, hammer
function (good in everything except concrete) 13mm keyless chuck
(difficult to tighten enough sometimes though)

The batteries are chinese made and state 1.5Ah which is quite good
really.

Makita batteries are 1.3 a/h but will be of reasonable quality & the charger
is their standard 'smart' one, no worries about charging & they are fast.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On 3 Dec, 16:25, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Dec 3, 9:23 am, 405 TD Estate wrote:

I just wanted to know how long you would expect NiCad batteries to
last in a drill that is used maybe 2-3 times per week requiring maybe
1 to 2 charges per week.

The drill has 2 battery packs and both would only last a short time
recantly after I owned the drill about a year. I remember reading
NiCad batteries should be able to be recharged about 1000 times (which
at recharging each pack only once a week is 20 years on my useage)

The drill is a £35 job from Argos and I'm guessing the batteries are
poor quality. luckily they have replaced the drill so i now have a new
drill and another years guarantee but i'm wondering if in 1

Have you got that in writing?

Replacement under warranty does not reset the warranty period.

MBQ

I've got a new reciept with last weeks date on and it has a 1 year
guarantee

On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:51:09 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
snip
The batteries are chinese made and state 1.5Ah which is quite good
really.

Makita batteries are 1.3 a/h but will be of reasonable quality & the charger
is their standard 'smart' one, no worries about charging & they are fast.

i have a 14v makita with 3ah batteries
all three batteries were clapped out after a year


hth



breeze

On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 10:53:14 GMT, wrote:
On 3 Dec,
Peter Scott wrote:

I'd have a go at replacing the cells. Most difficult bit will be prising
the pack apart without destroying it. get some two-pack resin glue to
put it back together! The maker will almost certainly be using standard
sizes to save money. You can get rechargeables of all types, capacities
and sizes from companies such as
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/home/homepage.jsp

I thought of doing that, but the price of the individual cells cells made it
just as economic to get a new battery. I'm ending up replacing the drill as
well.

In the past I've had a battery pack just stop dead. It was OK one second
and gave nothing the next. When I took it apart I found that the cells were
connected to each other with spot-welded metal bands. One of these had
corroded through (and other ones were in a bad way). When I soldered a
wire across the corrosion, and reassembled the pack (5 self-tapping screws)
it was fine again.


--
.................................................. .........................
.. never trust a man who, when left alone ...... Pete Lynch .
.. in a room with a tea cosy ...... Marlow, England .
.. doesn't try it on (Billy Connolly) .....................................

wrote:
On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:51:09 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
snip
The batteries are chinese made and state 1.5Ah which is quite good
really.
Makita batteries are 1.3 a/h but will be of reasonable quality & the charger
is their standard 'smart' one, no worries about charging & they are fast.

i have a 14v makita with 3ah batteries
all three batteries were clapped out after a year

I knew someone who had that happen as well (although when I asked about
his usage pattern it turns out he was running the bats too flat and then
charging when hot).

Full credit to Makita mind you, they replaced them all free of charge.

The 2.6Ah NiMh batts on my Makita 18V combi have been working well for
three or more years now.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember 405 TD Estate
saying something like:

Maybe but the RRP £180 Matika drill comes with 1.3 AH batteries. If I
were replacing batteries I would try to use NiNH AA cells - available
very cheap off ebay and capacities over 2.5Ah - would be a lot lighter
than the Nicads and last nearly twice as long. Say £15 to £20 for 15
cells for 1 packs worth but I don't know how well they would recharge
from the stock NiCad charger (dont know the differences between a
NiCad and NiMH chargers)

I do exactly this with my Makita cordlesses - the old Nicad and newer
NiMH packs co-exist but I now have two chargers. The newest NiMH charger
will quite happily charge both the Nicad and NiMH packs until each are
full, but the old Nicad charger will only charge the NiMH packs about
half-full, but that's not a problem as NiMH aren't bothered by memory
effect.

If I'm using both drills for an extended session I just bung in whatever
battery into whatever charger, trying to optimise the charging, but
there's no disadvantage if it's the wrong way round.
--

Dave

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Peter Scott
saying something like:

I thought of doing that, but the price of the individual cells cells made it
just as economic to get a new battery. I'm ending up replacing the drill as
well.


Yes. When I bought a cordless I asked what the price of a second battery
was. Only a pound less than the whole drill! I'm surprised that it isn't
economic to replace them, but you've obviously done your homework.

If you shop around it's definitely worthwhile re-celling them with newer
higher capacity cells, but then an old charger probably won't keep up.
I did the same for an old 12V Bosch - new 1.2Ah battery packs were
100gbp - no way was I paying that. On digging around I found that a diy
re-celling with 2Ah cells came to a much more sensible 30odd quid.
--

Dave

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember 405 TD Estate
saying something like:

Have you got that in writing?

Replacement under warranty does not reset the warranty period.

MBQ

I've got a new reciept with last weeks date on and it has a 1 year
guarantee

You could have a new drill every year if you keep that up. Just insist
on a receipt each time.
--

Dave

On Dec 3, 10:18 pm, 405 TD Estate wrote:
On 3 Dec, 16:25, "Man at B&Q" wrote:





On Dec 3, 9:23 am, 405 TD Estate wrote:

I just wanted to know how long you would expect NiCad batteries to
last in a drill that is used maybe 2-3 times per week requiring maybe
1 to 2 charges per week.

The drill has 2 battery packs and both would only last a short time
recantly after I owned the drill about a year. I remember reading
NiCad batteries should be able to be recharged about 1000 times (which
at recharging each pack only once a week is 20 years on my useage)

The drill is a £35 job from Argos and I'm guessing the batteries are
poor quality. luckily they have replaced the drill so i now have a new
drill and another years guarantee but i'm wondering if in 1

Have you got that in writing?

Replacement under warranty does not reset the warranty period.

MBQ

I've got a new reciept with last weeks date on and it has a 1 year
guarantee

You got a receipt for the exchange. I suspect the Argos computer
system will know it was an exchange if you try it again. If not, then
they're even bigger fools tha I thought.

MBQ

wrote:
On 4 Dec,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

new 1.2Ah battery packs were
100gbp - no way was I paying that. On digging around I found that a diy
re-celling with 2Ah cells came to a much more sensible 30odd quid.

That's about the sum I got for re-celling. I could also get new packs on Ebay
from HK for about the same. Not worth the hassle breaking the pack open and
re-sealing for the coppers difference.

Except you can re-cell with top quality cells, whereas you don't know
what you will get in a pack.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/