I posted last week that amongst others, British Gas were coming out to price
a Boiler replacement and installation of Thermostatic Rad valves. The person
who came out from BG was a bit of a waffler but eventually the price of
£3700 was printed out for me. As some of you guys pointed out (and what I
suspected would be the case) BG was always going to be pricey. At that time,
I opted for a conventional condenser Boiler fearing the implication of
someone in the shower (mains fed) being hurt if something else drew water
from elsewhere. In their quote, the Boiler was priced at £895 and its
installation £1597.50.

Anyway, three independant Heating Engineers also came out and two of them
expressed deep surprise that the BG rep had not recommended the Hot water
cylinder was not changed as the output on their recommended Boiler would
"burst" the one currently fitted.

The first Engineer attempted to persuade me that a High Energy Combi would
be OK especially after checking the pressure flow of water coming into the
property. This obviously meant that the Hot water tank would be removed
together with the header tanks in the attic.

To this end, the first and last Engineers have suggested the Worcester Bosch
Combi (not sure of the model).

First Engineer priced it (and it's going to be followed up by a printed
quote) of "£2000 tops" and, while the system.was drained, he'd connect up
"free of charge" a towel rail/radiator in a second bathroom which I am just
completing and which already has the flow and return pipework in place.

Second Engineer not in the running and the

Last Engineer verbally quoted £2600 which included the installation of a new
towel rail/rad as mentioned above.

I will be deciding sometime Friday what to go for and would like some advice
/ input from you guys about the various bits of advice as outlined in the
above text.

Thanks for reading this.

"Topref" wrote:
I posted last week that amongst others, British Gas were coming out to
price a Boiler replacement and installation of Thermostatic Rad valves. The
person who came out from BG was a bit of a waffler but eventually the price
of £3700 was printed out for me. As some of you guys pointed out (and what
I suspected would be the case) BG was always going to be pricey. At that
time, I opted for a conventional condenser Boiler fearing the implication
of someone in the shower (mains fed) being hurt if something else drew
water from elsewhere. In their quote, the Boiler was priced at £895 and its
installation £1597.50.

Anyway, three independant Heating Engineers also came out and two of them
expressed deep surprise that the BG rep had not recommended the Hot water
cylinder was not changed as the output on their recommended Boiler would
"burst" the one currently fitted.

The first Engineer attempted to persuade me that a High Energy Combi would
be OK especially after checking the pressure flow of water coming into the
property. This obviously meant that the Hot water tank would be removed
together with the header tanks in the attic.

To this end, the first and last Engineers have suggested the Worcester
Bosch Combi (not sure of the model).

First Engineer priced it (and it's going to be followed up by a printed
quote) of "£2000 tops" and, while the system.was drained, he'd connect up
"free of charge" a towel rail/radiator in a second bathroom which I am
just completing and which already has the flow and return pipework in
place.

Second Engineer not in the running and the

Last Engineer verbally quoted £2600 which included the installation of a
new towel rail/rad as mentioned above.

I will be deciding sometime Friday what to go for and would like some
advice / input from you guys about the various bits of advice as outlined
in the above text.

Thanks for reading this.

I am not a plumber so can only describe my experience of having an old
gas-fired back boiler replaced recently with a Worcester Bosch Greenstar 24i
junior. See
http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/ind...&con_id=125926

The firm I used only installs Worcester Bosch boilers because they find them
very reliable and the backup from Worcester Bosch is good if they need to be
called out. I got a 'free' 5 year guarantee with mine. Regarding the water
pressure issue, that someone in the shower (mains fed) could be hurt if
something else drew water from elsewhere; as the new boiler is mains fed you
may find that the pressure to the shower will probably drop if someone
flushes a toilet/runs hot or cold water elsewhere. The same will probably
happen if you are running hot or cold water through a tap, and then someone
tries to use the shower - the flow of hot or cold water through a tap will
probably reduce, possibly to a trickle. I haven't got a water mains fed
electric shower. Our rads are hotter with the new boiler as the system is
pressurised, and the plumbers flushed all the crud out.

I am surprised that BG suggested that the current hot water cylinder and
header tanks are retained. My fortic cylinder and header tank were removed.
Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised, my previous experience of using BG to
install gas central heating was a nightmare.

The only criticism I have is the Worcester Bosch timer/temperature control.
Ours is wireless, but the wired unit is probably the same; the clock has
segments which are set for either day or night time use, with two
temperature control dials, one for day and one for night. So, if you have
the central heating set to say 6am to 9am, then 5pm to 10pm, and you want
the heating on between those times, say over the lunchtime, you use the
night time temperature control dial even though it is midday. Strange! Good
luck with the installation.

"Topref" wrote

I posted last week .........snip

Having watched this subject for approx 2 years now and having upgraded my
system in a similar way, the consensus seems to be:

If there are a number of people in your house who are likely to want to
shower/run baths etc at the same time, then you either need to either:

Retain your hot water cylinder and fit a condensing system (non-combi)
boiler. This is what I did but then I have two teenage kids and I'm a bit
of a traditionalist.
OR
Fit a very large combi boiler (i. e. lots of Kw) which will give a flow rate
high enough to cope with the simultaneous demand. This may mean a boiler
that isn't running quite so efficiently as the larger boilers tend not to
modulate down as low as the medium size ones.

There are variations - you could fit a decent size combi and use the heating
side for both central heating and cylinder hot water, then use the hot combi
supply to feed a dedicated single shower.

HTH

Phil

Further to my initial posting, I've just measured the flow rate and it
produced 17 and a half litres in a minute.

"Topref" wrote in message
...
Further to my initial posting, I've just measured the flow rate and it
produced 17 and a half litres in a minute.

Having just read John Rumm's contribution in another thread, I measured the
flow from another tap and it came out at 23 LPS. Sounds as if the flow is OK
for what I intend having installed.

"Topref" wrote in message
...
I posted last week that amongst others, British Gas were coming out to
price a Boiler replacement and installation of Thermostatic Rad valves. The
person who came out from BG was a bit of a waffler but eventually the price
of £3700 was printed out for me. As some of you guys pointed out (and what
I suspected would be the case) BG was always going to be pricey. At that
time, I opted for a conventional condenser Boiler fearing the implication
of someone in the shower (mains fed) being hurt if something else drew
water from elsewhere.

Only replying to that point. A half decent thermostatic mixer or electric
shower with a stabiliser valve will work well enough to prevent harm in
these circusmstances. If that's currently an issue sort the shower out and
reconsider the bigger question.

Jim A

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 09:34:58 -0000, "Topref"
wrote:

"Topref" wrote in message
...
Further to my initial posting, I've just measured the flow rate and it
produced 17 and a half litres in a minute.

Having just read John Rumm's contribution in another thread, I measured the
flow from another tap and it came out at 23 LPS.

Per second?

Sheesh!

--
Frank Erskine

The shower that I have bought and just about to install is a Mira Sport Max
10.8 kw.

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 09:34:58 -0000, "Topref"
wrote:

"Topref" wrote in message
...
Further to my initial posting, I've just measured the flow rate and it
produced 17 and a half litres in a minute.

Having just read John Rumm's contribution in another thread, I measured
the
flow from another tap and it came out at 23 LPS.

Per second?

Sheesh!

--
Frank Erskine

OK OK OK - well, on my keyboard, the S is a bit close to the M - ish!!!

"Topref" wrote in message
...
The shower that I have bought and just about to install is a Mira Sport
Max 10.8 kw.


In that case you should not be bothered with harmfull temperature variations
and can discount that when comparing proposals.

Jim A

Topref wrote:

The shower that I have bought and just about to install is a Mira Sport Max
10.8 kw.

Which is an electrically heated shower running from a single cold supply
only, not a mixer. So no need to worry (other than about the rather poor
shower you get out of these things!)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Nov 23, 11:39 am, "Topref"
wrote:
The shower that I have bought and just about to install is a Mira Sport Max
10.8 kw.

I'm wondering why you have bought an electric shower when you are
about to get a new high output combination boiler installed?

Steve

In message , Topref
writes
OK OK OK - well, on my keyboard, the S is a bit close to the M - ish!!!

can I have some of what you're smoking please...

--
Si

In message , John Rumm
writes
Topref wrote:

The shower that I have bought and just about to install is a Mira
Sport Max 10.8 kw.

Which is an electrically heated shower running from a single cold
supply only, not a mixer. So no need to worry (other than about the
rather poor shower you get out of these things!)


or better trade it in for one of these:
http://www.aqualisa.co.uk/Our-products/

--
Si

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 01:25:30 +0000, Topref wrote:

I posted last week that amongst others, British Gas were coming out to
price a Boiler replacement and installation of Thermostatic Rad valves.
The person who came out from BG was a bit of a waffler but eventually
the price of £3700 was printed out for me. As some of you guys pointed
out (and what I suspected would be the case) BG was always going to be
pricey. At that time, I opted for a conventional condenser Boiler
fearing the implication of someone in the shower (mains fed) being hurt
if something else drew water from elsewhere. In their quote, the Boiler
was priced at £895 and its installation £1597.50.

Anyway, three independant Heating Engineers also came out and two of
them expressed deep surprise that the BG rep had not recommended the Hot
water cylinder was not changed as the output on their recommended Boiler
would "burst" the one currently fitted.

The first Engineer attempted to persuade me that a High Energy Combi
would be OK especially after checking the pressure flow of water coming
into the property. This obviously meant that the Hot water tank would be
removed together with the header tanks in the attic.

To this end, the first and last Engineers have suggested the Worcester
Bosch Combi (not sure of the model).

First Engineer priced it (and it's going to be followed up by a printed
quote) of "£2000 tops" and, while the system.was drained, he'd connect
up "free of charge" a towel rail/radiator in a second bathroom which I
am just completing and which already has the flow and return pipework in
place.

Second Engineer not in the running and the

Last Engineer verbally quoted £2600 which included the installation of a
new towel rail/rad as mentioned above.

I will be deciding sometime Friday what to go for and would like some
advice / input from you guys about the various bits of advice as
outlined in the above text.

Thanks for reading this.

Do _you_ want a combi boiler? If so then go with whoever you want.
If you don't then find someone who listens to what you want.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"stevelup" wrote in message
...
On Nov 23, 11:39 am, "Topref"
wrote:
The shower that I have bought and just about to install is a Mira Sport
Max
10.8 kw.

I'm wondering why you have bought an electric shower when you are
about to get a new high output combination boiler installed?


Because we bought the shower some time ago and only now thought about
upgrading the boiler. The shower room is recently tiled and all electrics
and pipework is in place and hidden. It is also a matter of cost and what we
can afford.

Do _you_ want a combi boiler? If so then go with whoever you want.
If you don't then find someone who listens to what you want.


We didn't mind either a Combi OR a traditional but we were leaning slightly
toward traditional as we fancied keeping our airing cupboard. But after
advice from the engineers (not the sales rep from BG) and after comments
from this newsgroup, the choice was easier. there was also concern, as
outlined in my first post, regarding loss of water pressure.

I am very appreciative of the responses I've had here. well worth asking the
question.

In article ,
Topref wrote:
Do _you_ want a combi boiler? If so then go with whoever you want. If
you don't then find someone who listens to what you want.


We didn't mind either a Combi OR a traditional but we were leaning
slightly toward traditional as we fancied keeping our airing cupboard.
But after advice from the engineers (not the sales rep from BG) and
after comments from this newsgroup, the choice was easier. there was
also concern, as outlined in my first post, regarding loss of water
pressure.

I am very appreciative of the responses I've had here. well worth asking
the question.

If your existing storage system is satisfactory, changing to a combi is a
very expensive option with absolutely no benefits. They are ideal for
small flats etc where space for a cylinder etc might be at a premium, or
for very low hot water usage.

--
*Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , Topref
writes
"Topref" wrote in message
...
Further to my initial posting, I've just measured the flow rate and it
produced 17 and a half litres in a minute.

Having just read John Rumm's contribution in another thread, I measured the
flow from another tap and it came out at 23 LPS.

Litres/second ?


Sounds as if the flow is OK
for what I intend having installed.


--
geoff

If your existing storage system is satisfactory, changing to a combi is a
very expensive option with absolutely no benefits. They are ideal for
small flats etc where space for a cylinder etc might be at a premium, or
for very low hot water usage.



The prices we were quoted for a straight swap of boilers, necessitating a
change of hot water cylinder and peripherals was not very much different to
going for the combi.

In article ,
Topref wrote:
If your existing storage system is satisfactory, changing to a combi
is a very expensive option with absolutely no benefits. They are ideal
for small flats etc where space for a cylinder etc might be at a
premium, or for very low hot water usage.



The prices we were quoted for a straight swap of boilers, necessitating
a change of hot water cylinder and peripherals was not very much
different to going for the combi.

Why change the hot water cylinder and peripherals? There are boilers
around that don't insist on a sealed system. Of course if they're in poor
condition and need changing it would be the way to go at the same time.

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Topref wrote:
"stevelup" wrote in message
...
On Nov 23, 11:39 am, "Topref"
wrote:
The shower that I have bought and just about to install is a Mira Sport
Max
10.8 kw.
I'm wondering why you have bought an electric shower when you are
about to get a new high output combination boiler installed?


Because we bought the shower some time ago and only now thought about
upgrading the boiler. The shower room is recently tiled and all electrics
and pipework is in place and hidden. It is also a matter of cost and what we
can afford.

Would still be worth trying to dump the electric one asap as it will be
far more expensive to run than one using gas-heated water (which will
also give you a much better shower!)

David

"Topref" wrote in message
...

The prices we were quoted for a straight swap of boilers, necessitating a
change of hot water cylinder and peripherals was not very much different
to going for the combi.

Go for the combi.

"Topref" wrote in message
...

Do _you_ want a combi boiler? If so then go with whoever you want.
If you don't then find someone who listens to what you want.


We didn't mind either a Combi OR a traditional but we were leaning
slightly toward traditional as we fancied keeping our airing cupboard.

A small rad can be fitted inside the cuboard releasing space.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Topref" wrote in message
...

Do _you_ want a combi boiler? If so then go with whoever you want.
If you don't then find someone who listens to what you want.


We didn't mind either a Combi OR a traditional but we were leaning
slightly toward traditional as we fancied keeping our airing cupboard.

A small rad can be fitted inside the cuboard releasing space.

and wants to be on its own zone with a thermostat to work as effectively
as a hot water cylinder in keeping constant heat in the cupboard.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

A Worcester Bosch 30 Si (I think) is being installed on Wednesday/Thursday.

It was suggested to me, by someone else who gave me a quote, to install a
small rad in the airing cupboard. I may well give them a ring tomorrow. The
installation engineer came out today to add some liquid to the header tank
in preparation for draining the system.