I have a lathe and plaster ceiling in my upstairs hallway that's started
coming away from the lathes. Now I know how to handle this with a modern
ceiling, but this one is 100 years old and made with lime plaster. If the
walls are anything to go by, it will be pretty crumbly, too.

I'm thinking of jacking it back into place, then giving it a liberal
dose of PVA solution to try to stop it crumbling before attempting to stick
it there with gauze and plaster of paris.

Does this sound reasonable? I would replace the ceiling, but I'm no
plasterer and here in Hull anyone who is is booked up for eternity.

Ta!
--
Andrew

"Andrew Collins" wrote in message
...
I have a lathe and plaster ceiling in my upstairs hallway that's started
coming away from the lathes. Now I know how to handle this with a modern
ceiling, but this one is 100 years old and made with lime plaster. If the
walls are anything to go by, it will be pretty crumbly, too.

I'm thinking of jacking it back into place, then giving it a liberal
dose of PVA solution to try to stop it crumbling before attempting to
stick
it there with gauze and plaster of paris.

Does this sound reasonable? I would replace the ceiling, but I'm no
plasterer and here in Hull anyone who is is booked up for eternity.

Ta!
--
Andrew


Options in order of easiness and least mess:

1.You could try screwing it back into place, or use large headed clout nails

2. You could counterbatten ( 2 by 1 battens at right angles to joists)
board and skim.

3. You could rip it all down, board and skim.

mark

I would think if the area is small on a large ceiling you should
carefully cut out the damaged area and repair it but becarefull the
plaster is very dry and does not take to being disturbed.

If it is a large area I would leave the ceiling alone and overboard it
but this may affect any cornise you may have.

Pablo

Andrew Collins wrote:

I have a lathe and plaster ceiling in my upstairs hallway that's started
coming away from the lathes. Now I know how to handle this with a modern
ceiling, but this one is 100 years old and made with lime plaster. If the
walls are anything to go by, it will be pretty crumbly, too.

I'm thinking of jacking it back into place, then giving it a liberal
dose of PVA solution to try to stop it crumbling before attempting to stick
it there with gauze and plaster of paris.

Does this sound reasonable? I would replace the ceiling, but I'm no
plasterer and here in Hull anyone who is is booked up for eternity.

Ta!

Standard thing is to jack it back up, using a load spreading sheet,
and pour pva onto it frm above to glue it back. Then its just a crack
fill.

Recessed screws and penny washers can also be used if access
above is just not an option, but pvs is to be preferred where poss.


NT

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 17:07:29 +0000, Mark wrote:

"Andrew Collins" wrote in message
...
I have a lathe and plaster ceiling in my upstairs hallway that's started
coming away from the lathes.
[snip, suffice to say that it's lime plaster]

Options in order of easiness and least mess:

1.You could try screwing it back into place, or use large headed clout
nails

I don't think it's up to that. If it's anything like the walls it will
only be the top coat that's holding it together. I'm fortunate enough to
have access to the back of the separated areas, though, which makes my
life a bit easier.

2. You could counterbatten ( 2 by 1 battens at right angles to joists)
board and skim.

No, really, *I* couldn't. I'm hopeless with a float. Been there, done that,
had to call a professional to fix it. Unfortunately since the floods all
the plasterers here are either booked up forever or are charging stupid
money.

3. You could rip it all down, board and skim.

This would be my preferred option, if I could actually *get* a plasterer
to finish it for me.

mark

--
Andrew

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:07:28 -0800, meow2222 wrote:

Andrew Collins wrote:
I have a lathe and plaster ceiling in my upstairs hallway that's started
coming away from the lathes. Now I know how to handle this with a modern
ceiling, but this one is 100 years old and made with lime plaster. If the
walls are anything to go by, it will be pretty crumbly, too.

Standard thing is to jack it back up, using a load spreading sheet,
and pour pva onto it frm above to glue it back. Then its just a crack
fill.

Neat pva, or a solution? I'd be worried that neat PVA might be too viscose
to penetrate the lime plaster far enough to give a good hold. I guess I
could always do it in 2 stages though.

Cheers!

--
Andrew

[snip, suffice to say that it's lime plaster]

Options in order of easiness and least mess:

1.You could try screwing it back into place, or use large headed clout
nails

I don't think it's up to that. If it's anything like the walls it will
only be the top coat that's holding it together. I'm fortunate enough to
have access to the back of the separated areas, though, which makes my
life a bit easier.

2. You could counterbatten ( 2 by 1 battens at right angles to joists)
board and skim.

No, really, *I* couldn't. I'm hopeless with a float. Been there, done
that,
had to call a professional to fix it. Unfortunately since the floods all
the plasterers here are either booked up forever or are charging stupid
money.

3. You could rip it all down, board and skim.

This would be my preferred option, if I could actually *get* a plasterer
to finish it for me.


You are more likely to get a plasterer if its all nicely boarded and ready
to go.
Plasterers like plasterering. They don't like ripping down old ceilings or
boarding.
I suggest you get it all ready to skim and then it'll be a lot easier to
get a plasterer.


mark

On 17 Nov, 16:35, Andrew Collins wrote:
I have a lathe and plaster ceiling in my upstairs hallway that's started
coming away from the lathes. Now I know how to handle this with a modern
ceiling, but this one is 100 years old and made with lime plaster. If the
walls are anything to go by, it will be pretty crumbly, too.

I'm thinking of jacking it back into place, then giving it a liberal
dose of PVA solution to try to stop it crumbling before attempting to stick
it there with gauze and plaster of paris.

Does this sound reasonable? I would replace the ceiling, but I'm no
plasterer and here in Hull anyone who is is booked up for eternity.

Ta!
--
Andrew

Dear Andrew
Done this often
Posts suggesting localised screwing etc are right
Avoid ferrous fixings if possible unless stainless
Use SBR not PVA (pva can re-emulsify if wet)
Use casting plaster (if necessary mixed with lime putty - in tubs) to
delay the set but casting should be ok
Consider galvanised or Stainless EML on the top of the laths first
tacked to side of CJoists in a U shape for strengh
Bully for you for saving a ceiling not ripping it down
William Morries Ruskin et al would be proud of you!
Chris G

Mark wrote:

You are more likely to get a plasterer if its all nicely boarded and ready
to go.
Plasterers like plasterering. They don't like ripping down old ceilings or
boarding.
I suggest you get it all ready to skim and then it'll be a lot easier to
get a plasterer.

Care - not necessarily. For sure, nobody likes ripping doen old
ceilings, but as for boarding, some plasterers really don't like
skimming a ceiling boarded by someone else. eg, some plasterers wil
tell you that adjacent boards should be butted tightly up against each
other, others will say there should be a few mm gap to allow plaster
through to form a 'nib' behind. Also, in an old house, plasterers know
that the ceiling joists are often very uneven, and they may think a
d-i-yer won't have packed the boards out where necessary to correct for
this.

Trouble is, if you rip the old ceiling down yourself before the
plasterer comes, if he's boarding too you could end up with a
significant lag time with no ceiling at all, whereas a boarded,
unskimmed ceiling is reasonably acceptable in the medium term (been
there done that...)

David

Andrew Collins wrote:

3. You could rip it all down, board and skim.

This would be my preferred option, if I could actually *get* a plasterer
to finish it for me.

Use taper edge boards, and scrim and joint fill instead. Needs a final
sand, but you will get spot on results without needing to be able to skim.

--
Cheers,

John.

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Andrew Collins wrote:
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:07:28 -0800, meow2222 wrote:

Andrew Collins wrote:
I have a lathe and plaster ceiling in my upstairs hallway that's started
coming away from the lathes. Now I know how to handle this with a modern
ceiling, but this one is 100 years old and made with lime plaster. If the
walls are anything to go by, it will be pretty crumbly, too.

Standard thing is to jack it back up, using a load spreading sheet,
and pour pva onto it frm above to glue it back. Then its just a crack
fill.

FYI this is easy to do without special kit etc - get yourself a couple
of lengths of 2x1 timber and cut them to about 1" longer than the
ceiling height of your room, hold a board up against the ceiling and
then wedge it there using your 2x1s. You can apply a substantial upward
force that way.

Neat pva, or a solution? I'd be worried that neat PVA might be too viscose
to penetrate the lime plaster far enough to give a good hold. I guess I
could always do it in 2 stages though.

A solution - say 1:4? And vaccum the area first to get rid of dust etc.

I've done this myself with a lath and plaster wall suffering from the
same problem, worked a treat.

In addition to that, while you've got the ceiling jacked up and PVA'd,
another trick is to apply some bonding plaster to the reverse side of
the ceiling over the area where it's coming down, that will hopefully
bond the whole lot back together.

It's worked for me - again, in walls rather than ceilings - but it's
definitely a bodge rather than a proper job. However, hopefully it will
wring a few more years' life out of your ceiling, at least until such
time as the local plasterers have finished their backlog of flood repairs.

David

Lobster wrote:
Andrew Collins wrote:
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:07:28 -0800, meow2222 wrote:
Andrew Collins wrote:

I have a lathe and plaster ceiling in my upstairs hallway that's started
coming away from the lathes. Now I know how to handle this with a modern
ceiling, but this one is 100 years old and made with lime plaster. If the
walls are anything to go by, it will be pretty crumbly, too.

Standard thing is to jack it back up, using a load spreading sheet,
and pour pva onto it frm above to glue it back. Then its just a crack
fill.

FYI this is easy to do without special kit etc - get yourself a couple
of lengths of 2x1 timber and cut them to about 1" longer than the
ceiling height of your room, hold a board up against the ceiling and
then wedge it there using your 2x1s. You can apply a substantial upward
force that way.

Neat pva, or a solution? I'd be worried that neat PVA might be too viscose
to penetrate the lime plaster far enough to give a good hold. I guess I
could always do it in 2 stages though.

A solution - say 1:4? And vaccum the area first to get rid of dust etc.

I've done this myself with a lath and plaster wall suffering from the
same problem, worked a treat.

In addition to that, while you've got the ceiling jacked up and PVA'd,
another trick is to apply some bonding plaster to the reverse side of
the ceiling over the area where it's coming down, that will hopefully
bond the whole lot back together.

It's worked for me - again, in walls rather than ceilings - but it's
definitely a bodge rather than a proper job. However, hopefully it will
wring a few more years' life out of your ceiling, at least until such
time as the local plasterers have finished their backlog of flood repairs.

David

Is it a bodge? It gives better noise reduction than a new boarded
ceiling, it restores the original means by which the ceiling was
fixed
in place if plaster is poured, and its recommended by restorers. I
cant think of a better way to do it.


NT

Lobster wrote:

FYI this is easy to do without special kit etc - get yourself a couple
of lengths of 2x1 timber and cut them to about 1" longer than the
ceiling height of your room, hold a board up against the ceiling and
then wedge it there using your 2x1s. You can apply a substantial upward
force that way.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Dead_man_prop


--
Cheers,

John.

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| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Lobster wrote:

FYI this is easy to do without special kit etc - get yourself a couple
of lengths of 2x1 timber and cut them to about 1" longer than the
ceiling height of your room, hold a board up against the ceiling and
then wedge it there using your 2x1s. You can apply a substantial
upward force that way.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Dead_man_prop

Excellent!
D

wrote:

True if your room is less than 8' wide. otherwise you would have to tape and
fill over a flat join, resulting in a (slight) bump. Putting the long edges
paralell to the window minimises the visibility of these bumps.

You can plane down the height at the flat edge with a surform. create
your own taper.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:
On 18 Nov,
John Rumm wrote:

wrote:

True if your room is less than 8' wide. otherwise you would have to tape
and fill over a flat join, resulting in a (slight) bump. Putting the long
edges paralell to the window minimises the visibility of these bumps.
You can plane down the height at the flat edge with a surform. create
your own taper.

You then lose the strength of the paper face, unless you tape over it, then
you are back to the bump.


Strength is not so much of a problem on a ceiling. If you use fibreglass
scrim tape you still get a reasonably strong join even without the paper.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/