I have now solved the poor flush problem and have described below my
original message how it was done, should anyone be interested or anyone
having a similar problem be searching this newsgroup

Track on down

---- Original Message ----
From: "Jen D"
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 1:23 PM
Subject: Poor Flush

Hi

It was apparently working fine - then an overflow problem - now it
doesn't have sufficient siphonage to take away a piece of toilet
tissue!

It's a close-coupled toilet (25+ years old) which originally had a
problem with its overflow. A friend of my mothers replaced the
existing toilet siphon with a push-button flapper toilet cistern
valve, which incorporated an internal overflow - solving the overflow
issue. However, now it has a poor/weak flush.

When the toilet is flushed, water seems to emanate normally around
the bowl rim, the bowl water level rises and then returns to its
normal level but with no particular siphon whoosh, which results in a
simple test piece of toilet tissue remaining in the bowl.

The only things which jumped out at me (I don't mean that literally)
when I looked in the tank was that the water level was lower than the
waterline mark on the inside of the tank (approx half the depth), and
the bottom entry inlet valve looked quite short.

I have tried holding the float down to allow the tank water level to
raise to the waterline mark (which takes the water level over the top
of the inlet valve) - this produced a more significant flush which
took away the toilet tissue, but I doubt that it would have taken
away much else.

I have checked the external drainage which appears free flowing - the
only other thing that crossed my mind was whether a plastic toilet
bowl blocks which should hang off the rim has fallen into the bowel
and become trapped in the bowl siphon. Although, Im leaning away from
this as it would have thought the issue would have been apparent
prior to the flush mechanism change.

I have also tried tipping a bucket of water into the bowl which
seemed to result in better bowl siphon.

I beginning to think that the problem is associated with the
'quantity and speed' of the water entering the bowl and intend to nip
to my mothers to have a closer look at the rim holes to see if they
are restricted in anyway and also look to see if the flapper can be
adjusted in anyway.

Does anyone have any other thoughts?

Thanks

Well, it wasn't the rim holes nor anything in the trap or any other type
of blockage. So I decided to go to my local DIY store and have a closer
look at the packaging for the push-button flapper toilet cistern valve,
installed by my mothers friend, to see if the flapper could be adjusted
in anyway. However, reading the packaging I came across a warning note
which said "this product cannot be used with a double-trap system" -
this got me thinking!

I then did some research on the net and found that my mothers toilet was
actually a "close coupled, double-trap, syphonic pan" (1970-1980
manufacture).

Digging around a bit further I found references indicating the need for
an "aspirator" or "bomb". Initially, I had no idea as to what these
looked like or how it fitted into the system. However, eventually I
found a section on a web page for a similar product (airex fitment)
which allowed me to at least visualise what the aspirator was and how it
was incorporated into the system. Once I had this I could see why the
installed flapper toilet cistern valve would not work and now guess that
my mother friend likely chucked-out the original aspirator thinking it
was part of the originally installed syphon, which he replaced.

http://www.hmjames.co.uk/d_tech_airex.htm

A little bit more digging around and I found details of an aspirator
which fitted into the end of a cistern syphon.

http://diamondbathrooms.com/acatalog..._Cisterns.html

I eventually tracked one down to my local Toolstation, (my local
plumbcenter and a couple of other plumbers merchants I tried didnt have
one) and only £14.

http://www.toolstation.com/search.ht...hstr=aspirator

I had also gathered from what I had read on the net, that the aspirator
did not fit ALL syphons, it did however fit the Dudley Turbo 88
(complete with internal overflow), which I pick-up from my local
Plumbcenter

http://www.thomasdudley.co.uk/turbo88.asp

Dismantling and install of the new syphon and aspirator was pretty
straightforward and results in a perfect flush (and being double-trap
syphonic - a very quiet flush)

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:05:59 GMT, "Jen D" wrote:

I have now solved the poor flush problem and have described below my
original message how it was done, should anyone be interested or anyone
having a similar problem be searching this newsgroup

Good detective work - never heard of the thing before...

Geo