What "loft" insulation material would the experts recommend for my
needs?

The only heating in the house consists of a wood burning stove in the
living room downstairs. It struggles to heat the one room. Upstairs is
currently not used, but has a few electric heaters on the few occasions
anyone is up there. Above that is a very large loft space.

I want to lift the floorboards above the living room and put some
insulation between the floorboards and living room ceiling. There is
only around 4 inch gap. The joists are not evenly spaced.

The aim is to help keep the heat in the living room below. It gets very
cold in the room in Winter. There is no insulation anywhere in the house
at the moment, so heat just vanishes. Due to a large mezzanine type
opening between the upstairs and the vast loft, there is just wide open
space between the floorboards above the living room and the slate roof.

The house is very old (two hundred years +) with exposed beams, built in
stone (two or three feet thick).

At some point in the future the roof and loft will need insulating
properly, but the immediate need is just to insulate the living room
ceiling.

Suggestions for insulation material?

--
David in Normandy.
(The free MicroPlanet Gravity newsreader is great for eliminating
rubbish and cross-posts)

David in Normandy wrote:
What "loft" insulation material would the experts recommend for my
needs?

The only heating in the house consists of a wood burning stove in the
living room downstairs. It struggles to heat the one room. Upstairs is
currently not used, but has a few electric heaters on the few occasions
anyone is up there. Above that is a very large loft space.

I want to lift the floorboards above the living room and put some
insulation between the floorboards and living room ceiling. There is
only around 4 inch gap. The joists are not evenly spaced.

The aim is to help keep the heat in the living room below. It gets very
cold in the room in Winter. There is no insulation anywhere in the house
at the moment, so heat just vanishes. Due to a large mezzanine type
opening between the upstairs and the vast loft, there is just wide open
space between the floorboards above the living room and the slate roof.

The house is very old (two hundred years +) with exposed beams, built in
stone (two or three feet thick).

At some point in the future the roof and loft will need insulating
properly, but the immediate need is just to insulate the living room
ceiling.

Suggestions for insulation material?


Standard Rockwool I would have thought. Cheap, versatile, and easy to
lay, especially where spacing is uneven

On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 13:38:49 +0200 someone who may be David in
Normandy wrote this:-

What "loft" insulation material would the experts recommend for my
needs?

You didn't state what constraints you place on your choice of
insulation material, such as sustainability or cost.

The only heating in the house consists of a wood burning stove in the
living room downstairs. It struggles to heat the one room. Upstairs is
currently not used, but has a few electric heaters on the few occasions
anyone is up there. Above that is a very large loft space.

I want to lift the floorboards above the living room and put some
insulation between the floorboards and living room ceiling. There is
only around 4 inch gap. The joists are not evenly spaced.

The aim is to help keep the heat in the living room below. It gets very
cold in the room in Winter. There is no insulation anywhere in the house
at the moment, so heat just vanishes.

Far better to put in a heat recovery system to heat the rooms
upstairs and insulate the loft. For the latter, wool or newspaper is
more sustainable but generally somewhat more expensive.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article , David Hansen
says...
On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 13:38:49 +0200 someone who may be David in
Normandy wrote this:-

What "loft" insulation material would the experts recommend for my
needs?

You didn't state what constraints you place on your choice of
insulation material, such as sustainability or cost.

Far better to put in a heat recovery system to heat the rooms
upstairs and insulate the loft. For the latter, wool or newspaper is
more sustainable but generally somewhat more expensive.


Unfortunately the loft can't be insulated at the moment - or rather it
would be a waste of time as there is a mezzanine sized hole between
upstairs and the attic space, so any warm air would just drift up the
"hole" and into the roof space. The "hole" will become stairs at some
time in the future, but a lot more building work needs doing before
then. The immediate need is to insulate the floor/ceiling above the
living room.

As the gap under the floor boards is only around 4 inches I don't know
whether to use Rockwool, vermiculite, or some of that new foil/bubble
wrap stuff, Polystyrene or some other material? Preferably not a
material that mice would find too comfortable to set up home in as we
live in the countryside surrounded by lots of the furry little buggers.
--
David in Normandy.
(The free MicroPlanet Gravity newsreader is great for eliminating
rubbish and cross-posts)

ive just bought a similar house in herefordshire,
an expert yesterday told me the recommended width
of glass fibre insulation is six inches, not 4.

i think getting rid of water leaks and draughts is top priority,

and theres a spaceage insulation which is very thin but expensiver,,,

if the insulation layer is waterproof then wont the bilding be able to
breathe?

i hope to hear good tips on this thread..

and someone else said i shouldnt be using woodburners
into the coal chimneys
cos of sparks from the wood...

http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/miscellaneous.html#Top
is interesting on vapour and insulation
but i cant find more online...

[g]

David in Normandy wrote:
In article , David Hansen
says...
On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 13:38:49 +0200 someone who may be David in
Normandy wrote this:-

What "loft" insulation material would the experts recommend for my
needs?

You didn't state what constraints you place on your choice of
insulation material, such as sustainability or cost.

Far better to put in a heat recovery system to heat the rooms
upstairs and insulate the loft. For the latter, wool or newspaper is
more sustainable but generally somewhat more expensive.


Unfortunately the loft can't be insulated at the moment - or rather it
would be a waste of time as there is a mezzanine sized hole between
upstairs and the attic space, so any warm air would just drift up the
"hole" and into the roof space. The "hole" will become stairs at some
time in the future, but a lot more building work needs doing before
then. The immediate need is to insulate the floor/ceiling above the
living room.

As the gap under the floor boards is only around 4 inches I don't know
whether to use Rockwool,

effective, fireproof, dampproof, rotproof, low cost, indefinite life,
some sound absorption

vermiculite,

I suppose you could, but it would not be a first choice material

or some of that new foil/bubble
wrap stuff,

lot of question over the claims made with that stuff. Burns away in
fire, little or no sound insulation, limited life, high price.

Polystyrene

works. Flammable though, and easy to make nests in

or some other material?

sheep wool costs more, has limited life, burns, and is very cosy
for mice.
Fire retardant treated shredded paper burns in fire, is cosy for mice.

Preferably not a
material that mice would find too comfortable to set up home in as we
live in the countryside surrounded by lots of the furry little buggers.

firebreglass or rockwool are the best bet.

David in Normandy.
(The free MicroPlanet Gravity newsreader is great for eliminating
rubbish and cross-posts)


NT

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:09:38 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-

firebreglass or rockwool are the best bet.

Only on a limited range of criteria.

http://www.sustainablebuild.co.uk/In...Materials.html explains
some of the alternatives.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 8 Oct, 12:38, David in Normandy wrote:
What "loft" insulation material would the experts recommend for my
needs?

The only heating in the house consists of a wood burning stove in the
living room downstairs. It struggles to heat the one room. Upstairs is
currently not used, but has a few electric heaters on the few occasions
anyone is up there. Above that is a very large loft space.

I want to lift the floorboards above the living room and put some
insulation between the floorboards and living room ceiling. There is
only around 4 inch gap. The joists are not evenly spaced.

The aim is to help keep the heat in the living room below. It gets very
cold in the room in Winter. There is no insulation anywhere in the house
at the moment, so heat just vanishes. Due to a large mezzanine type
opening between the upstairs and the vast loft, there is just wide open
space between the floorboards above the living room and the slate roof.

The house is very old (two hundred years +) with exposed beams, built in
stone (two or three feet thick).

At some point in the future the roof and loft will need insulating
properly, but the immediate need is just to insulate the living room
ceiling.

Suggestions for insulation material?

--
David in Normandy.
(The free MicroPlanet Gravity newsreader is great for eliminating
rubbish and cross-posts)

The best you can use is xtratherm/Celotex/Kingspan which is rigid
insulation that can be cut with a saw very easily. See
http://www.insulateonline.com/index1...ducts.htm~main for its
characterisitcs and search the net for cheap suppliers (I have bought
seconds quite a bit cheaper - boards with dings etc. in the edges).
Because your joists are unevenly spaced this will be a pain but
remaining gaps can be filled with expanding foam. It is more expensive
than your next best bet (fibrglass or rockwool) but will do a better
job and comes in a variety of thicknesses and sizes.

On 8 Oct, 12:38, David in Normandy wrote:
What "loft" insulation material would the experts recommend for my
needs?

The only heating in the house consists of a wood burning stove in the
living room downstairs. It struggles to heat the one room. Upstairs is
currently not used, but has a few electric heaters on the few occasions
anyone is up there. Above that is a very large loft space.

I want to lift the floorboards above the living room and put some
insulation between the floorboards and living room ceiling. There is
only around 4 inch gap. The joists are not evenly spaced.

The aim is to help keep the heat in the living room below. It gets very
cold in the room in Winter. There is no insulation anywhere in the house
at the moment, so heat just vanishes. Due to a large mezzanine type
opening between the upstairs and the vast loft, there is just wide open
space between the floorboards above the living room and the slate roof.

The house is very old (two hundred years +) with exposed beams, built in
stone (two or three feet thick).

At some point in the future the roof and loft will need insulating
properly, but the immediate need is just to insulate the living room
ceiling.

Suggestions for insulation material?

--
David in Normandy.
(The free MicroPlanet Gravity newsreader is great for eliminating
rubbish and cross-posts)

Dear David
I agree with Nafuk. Get yourself a foam gun - some cartriges AND some
acetone cleaner for the gun. Buy seconds of an unsulation such as
Kingspan TP10 (all their urethane stuff is basically the same product
with differnt names) - there is a good seconds place in N Wales but I
doubt it would be worth it traipsing over to Normandy with it stuck to
the top of the car! If you are sure that it is exactly a 4" gap then -
you could go for 4" of insulation but I doubt with lath and plaster
and the vagaries of timber dimensions that this is the case and you
would be better off with 2" at the bottom of the void and 1" at the
top. there will be a slight air gap which will do no harm. Remember to
put on a vapour check on the underside of the GF to stop condensation
(unless it is well vented - as it sounds) into the first floor. If the
walls are stone - then consideration could be given to lining the
inside with 2" of TP10 as well. I have sucessfully just done this in
an old Welsh random stone wall 2' thick. I used the plastic washers
and s/s nails they supply for external insulation on the inside and
stuck on plasterboard with plaster board adhesive and more of the
nails before pinking it - worked a treat. only risk is if there is
water penetration from the outside as I ignored the Kinspan advice to
batten out as I did not want to lose 4" plus of room
Chris

On 2007-10-09 08:37:11 +0100, nafuk said:

The best you can use is xtratherm/Celotex/Kingspan which is rigid
insulation that can be cut with a saw very easily. See
http://www.insulateonline.com/index1...ducts.htm~main for its
characterisitcs and search the net for cheap suppliers (I have bought
seconds quite a bit cheaper - boards with dings etc. in the edges).
Because your joists are unevenly spaced this will be a pain but
remaining gaps can be filled with expanding foam. It is more expensive
than your next best bet (fibrglass or rockwool) but will do a better
job and comes in a variety of thicknesses and sizes.

Yes I agree. I've used it in numerous applications in awkward
places. Something like 90mm thickness board would be very effective.

It isn't very flexible though. Deliberately there are glass fibre
threads embedded for strength. It should be possible to install it by
removing several floorboards at one end of the upstairs room and then a
few in places at intervals. Cutting a 2440x1220 sheet to width and
then the 2440 lengths in half should be enough to fit it in. You can
tape across the joins from board to board with a sticky foil tape.

This material should be available at builders merchants. I've never
seen it at bricolage places in France.

On Oct 8, 10:09 pm, wrote:
firebreglass or rockwool are the best bet.

I'd tend to agree, though with rockwool the fibres may go everywhere.

Spraying it with dilute PVA or bagging it in breather membrane may get
round this.

cheers,
Pete.

Pete C wrote:
On Oct 8, 10:09 pm, wrote:
firebreglass or rockwool are the best bet.

I'd tend to agree, though with rockwool the fibres may go everywhere.

Not a major problem IME. It's just so versatile when you have awkward
spaces to deal with.
Celotex is more effective, but is also more expensive and labour intensive

Spraying it with dilute PVA or bagging it in breather membrane may get
round this.

cheers,
Pete.

Andy Hall wrote:

It isn't very flexible though. Deliberately there are glass fibre
threads embedded for strength. It should be possible to install it by

Note that tot all the various makes and versions have the threads...
some are just plain PIR foam with foil over.

removing several floorboards at one end of the upstairs room and then a
few in places at intervals. Cutting a 2440x1220 sheet to width and
then the 2440 lengths in half should be enough to fit it in. You can
tape across the joins from board to board with a sticky foil tape.

You could lay sheets of it directly over the joists without cutting it
at all, and then relay the floorboards back on top of it. Screw them
through the insulation boards into the joists. This is the same
construction technique for a warm deck flat roof. The boards spread the
load enough to stop the foam deforming.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 2007-10-09 20:43:59 +0100, John Rumm said:

Andy Hall wrote:

It isn't very flexible though. Deliberately there are glass fibre
threads embedded for strength. It should be possible to install it by

Note that tot all the various makes and versions have the threads...
some are just plain PIR foam with foil over.

removing several floorboards at one end of the upstairs room and then a
few in places at intervals. Cutting a 2440x1220 sheet to width and
then the 2440 lengths in half should be enough to fit it in. You can
tape across the joins from board to board with a sticky foil tape.

You could lay sheets of it directly over the joists without cutting it
at all, and then relay the floorboards back on top of it. Screw them
through the insulation boards into the joists. This is the same
construction technique for a warm deck flat roof. The boards spread the
load enough to stop the foam deforming.


True, but I was trying to avoid a scenario of having to lift all of the boards.

B+Q have half price insulation ,
knopf space balnket 6.98 each 2msquared

thermawra 13.98 4.5m squared

is this the best deal i can get?

and someone said i should wrap it in plastic
but wouldnt that mean condensation?

george