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bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
"bicarbonate of soda" and "soda crystals" -- are they the same thing/
product? |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
In article . com,
Dot Net Developer writes: "bicarbonate of soda" and "soda crystals" -- are they the same thing/ product? No. "bicarbonate of soda" is Sodium Hydroden Carbonate. "soda crystals" are Sodium Carbonate, IIRC. "caustic soda" is Sodium Hydroxide. Every few decades, chemists decide to change the way they name compounds, so I might not be using the names taught in chemistry lessons today. (Do they even have chemistry lessons today?) -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article . com, Dot Net Developer writes: "bicarbonate of soda" and "soda crystals" -- are they the same thing/ product? No. "bicarbonate of soda" is Sodium Hydroden Carbonate. used for raising cakes & some bread, but is not baking powder "soda crystals" are Sodium Carbonate, IIRC. washing soda, a degreaser "caustic soda" is Sodium Hydroxide. very strong degreaser for unblocking drains and dissolving human remains. Every few decades, chemists decide to change the way they name compounds, so I might not be using the names taught in chemistry lessons today. (Do they even have chemistry lessons today?) Probably now questions like 'how do you feel about the politics of chemical E101' NT |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
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bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
On 6 Oct, 13:10, wrote:
"bicarbonate of soda" is Sodium Hydroden Carbonate. used for raising cakes & some bread, but is not baking powder Can it also be used as a general purpose cleaner (diluted in water)? "soda crystals" are Sodium Carbonate, IIRC. washing soda, a degreaser Can I use this (diluted) for - cleaning inside fridge & on the sofa? (Previously I used bicarbonate of soda.) Thanks, regards, Robert |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
"Dot Net Developer" wrote in message oups.com... On 6 Oct, 13:10, wrote: "bicarbonate of soda" is Sodium Hydroden Carbonate. used for raising cakes & some bread, but is not baking powder Can it also be used as a general purpose cleaner (diluted in water)? "soda crystals" are Sodium Carbonate, IIRC. washing soda, a degreaser Can I use this (diluted) for - cleaning inside fridge & on the sofa? (Previously I used bicarbonate of soda.) Use bicarb like the instructions say,after all it works and is safe as it is a food stuff. |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
In article .com,
Dot Net Developer writes: On 6 Oct, 13:10, wrote: "bicarbonate of soda" is Sodium Hydroden Carbonate. used for raising cakes & some bread, but is not baking powder Baking powder is Sodium Hydroden Carbonate diluted with flour so that the tiny amounts required can be reasonably accurately measured in a kitchen. In commercial cooking, it's used raw without dilution as more accurate measuring is used. It slowly neutralises acids from the other ingredients, reacting to produce CO2 responsible for raising. Bread is normally raised by yeast and sugar liberating CO2, but soda bread is an example where Sodium Hydroden Carbonate reacting with milk is used instead. Can it also be used as a general purpose cleaner (diluted in water)? Yes. Particularly useful where you don't want any smell from a perfumed cleaner, such as inside a fridge, and you don't want any acid or alkali left behind. Sodium Hydroden Carbonate is good for neutralising acids and alkalis. Another traditional use in this area is for neutralising excess stomach acid. "soda crystals" are Sodium Carbonate, IIRC. washing soda, a degreaser Can I use this (diluted) for - cleaning inside fridge & on the sofa? (Previously I used bicarbonate of soda.) Not sure. Why risk it -- sodium bicarbonate is so cheap? -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
On 6 Oct, 16:50, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
Can it [bicarbonate of soda] also be used as a general purpose cleaner (diluted in water)? Yes. The penny's just dropped as to why I can't find bicarbonate of soda in the supermarket - I've been looking in the cleaning products isle - I need to go to the home baking products isle! |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
Grunff wrote:
wrote: very strong degreaser for unblocking drains and dissolving human remains. And making soap. Isn't that sodium hydroxide? Saponification ISTR. Sodium bicarbonate is also used as a blast media. http://www.natriumsodablast.com/soda...g.htm#benefits -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
In article ,
"The Medway Handyman" writes: Grunff wrote: wrote: very strong degreaser for unblocking drains and dissolving human remains. And making soap. Isn't that sodium hydroxide? Saponification ISTR. You're responding out of context, because previous poster snipped an important line. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article , "The Medway Handyman" writes: Grunff wrote: wrote: very strong degreaser for unblocking drains and dissolving human remains. And making soap. Isn't that sodium hydroxide? Saponification ISTR. You're responding out of context, because previous poster snipped an important line. I thought the PP was refering to bicarbonate of soda as per the header? -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I thought the PP was refering to bicarbonate of soda as per the header? No, I was referring to sodium hydroxide, my snipping was poor. It went: "caustic soda" is Sodium Hydroxide. very strong degreaser for unblocking drains and dissolving human remains. Me: and making soap. -- Grunff |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
Grunff wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote: I thought the PP was refering to bicarbonate of soda as per the header? No, I was referring to sodium hydroxide, my snipping was poor. It went: "caustic soda" is Sodium Hydroxide. very strong degreaser for unblocking drains and dissolving human remains. Me: and making soap. Ah good! It wasn't the drink then :-) -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
On 6 Oct, 22:05, Peter Parry wrote:
(various snips) I wouldn't use bicarbonate of soda on materials. Please explain. I've tried this (diluted in hot water, rubbed on with tea towel on to sofa) with good surprisingly good results. I'll try something else if there's either a problem with this, or a better way. Thanks. |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
On 6 Oct, 22:05, Peter Parry wrote:
Other than in fridges Bicarbonate of Soda isn't a terribly good cleaning agent and (if bought in small tubs from a supermarket) quite an expensive one. It's very good for removing burnt-on-stuff from saucepans. Leave a paste of bicarb and water on for a few hours and bingo! Ian |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
Dot Net Developer wrote:
On 6 Oct, 22:05, Peter Parry wrote: (various snips) I wouldn't use bicarbonate of soda on materials. Please explain. I've tried this (diluted in hot water, rubbed on with tea towel on to sofa) with good surprisingly good results. I'll try something else if there's either a problem with this, or a better way. Thanks. Bicarb isn't very soluble in water, and is quite abrasive as a powder, so I guess you might be slightly abrading your fabric. A carpet cleaner might be more suitable as not all stains and dirt respond to alkalis |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
On 7 Oct, 12:51, Stuart Noble wrote:
Dot Net Developer wrote: On 6 Oct, 22:05, Peter Parry wrote: (various snips) I wouldn't use bicarbonate of soda on materials. Please explain. I've tried this (diluted in hot water, rubbed on with tea towel on to sofa) with good surprisingly good results. I'll try something else if there's either a problem with this, or a better way. Thanks. Bicarb isn't very soluble in water, and is quite abrasive as a powder, so I guess you might be slightly abrading your fabric. A carpet cleaner might be more suitable as not all stains and dirt respond to alkalis Thanks & thanks also for all replies. |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
Dot Net Developer wrote:
On 6 Oct, 13:10, wrote: "bicarbonate of soda" is Sodium Hydroden Carbonate. used for raising cakes & some bread, but is not baking powder Can it also be used as a general purpose cleaner (diluted in water)? Not general purpose but very good for removing tannin from teapots and cups. Mix to a paste with a little water. -- djc |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:33:08 +0000, djc wrote:
Not general purpose but very good for removing tannin from teapots and cups. Mix to a paste with a little water. I wonder if bicarb is an ingredient of dishwasher detergent which is also very good for degunking teapots and vacuum flasks? -- John Stumbles Question Authority |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
John Stumbles wrote:
On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:33:08 +0000, djc wrote: Not general purpose but very good for removing tannin from teapots and cups. Mix to a paste with a little water. I wonder if bicarb is an ingredient of dishwasher detergent which is also very good for degunking teapots and vacuum flasks? So is Ribena oddly enough, it being acidic |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
In article ,
Stuart Noble writes: John Stumbles wrote: On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:33:08 +0000, djc wrote: Not general purpose but very good for removing tannin from teapots and cups. Mix to a paste with a little water. I wonder if bicarb is an ingredient of dishwasher detergent which is also very good for degunking teapots and vacuum flasks? So is Ribena oddly enough, it being acidic Dishwasher detergent is normally a strong alkali, based on caustic soda and other ingredients. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
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bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
... A recently purchased pack of dishwasher cleaner claimed to have X% of non ionic surfactant which all sounds very innocent and like the instruction book for a 1960s girl's chemistry set. Reading in more detail and looking at the MSDS revealed that it was our old friend, NaOH. No other ingredients were mentioned. That'll be what does some of the work, but there will be a non ionic surfactant as well, since NaOH doesn't fit that definition at all. cheers, clive |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
On 2007-10-09 23:37:31 +0100, "Clive George" said:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... A recently purchased pack of dishwasher cleaner claimed to have X% of non ionic surfactant which all sounds very innocent and like the instruction book for a 1960s girl's chemistry set. Reading in more detail and looking at the MSDS revealed that it was our old friend, NaOH. No other ingredients were mentioned. That'll be what does some of the work, but there will be a non ionic surfactant as well, since NaOH doesn't fit that definition at all. cheers, clive I see. What things fall within that definitiion? |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
In article ,
Andy Hall writes: On 2007-10-09 23:37:31 +0100, "Clive George" said: "Andy Hall" wrote in message ... A recently purchased pack of dishwasher cleaner claimed to have X% of non ionic surfactant which all sounds very innocent and like the instruction book for a 1960s girl's chemistry set. Reading in more detail and looking at the MSDS revealed that it was our old friend, NaOH. No other ingredients were mentioned. That'll be what does some of the work, but there will be a non ionic surfactant as well, since NaOH doesn't fit that definition at all. cheers, clive I see. What things fall within that definitiion? A wetting agent, like a detergent (except they are more commonly ionic surfactants). It's a long time ago since I knew this, but IIRC ionic surfacants tend to foam easily as they skin over water one molecule thick with the charged end of the molecule in the water and the uncharged end sticking out, aiding bubble formation. This is a bad thing in a dishwasher as anyone who's tried using regular washing up liquid in one will tell you. Non-ionic surfactants don't do that. The surfacant ensures the food can be quickly wetted by the caustic soda, so it can quickly get to work on it. The surfacant also has cleaning properties in that it can break dirt down into small particles and surround it, making it appear to be soluable when in fact it isn't by itself. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article , Andy Hall writes: On 2007-10-09 23:37:31 +0100, "Clive George" said: "Andy Hall" wrote in message ... A recently purchased pack of dishwasher cleaner claimed to have X% of non ionic surfactant which all sounds very innocent and like the instruction book for a 1960s girl's chemistry set. Reading in more detail and looking at the MSDS revealed that it was our old friend, NaOH. No other ingredients were mentioned. That'll be what does some of the work, but there will be a non ionic surfactant as well, since NaOH doesn't fit that definition at all. cheers, clive I see. What things fall within that definitiion? A wetting agent, like a detergent (except they are more commonly ionic surfactants). It's a long time ago since I knew this, but IIRC ionic surfacants tend to foam easily as they skin over water one molecule thick with the charged end of the molecule in the water and the uncharged end sticking out, aiding bubble formation. This is a bad thing in a dishwasher as anyone who's tried using regular washing up liquid in one will tell you. Non-ionic surfactants don't do that. The surfacant ensures the food can be quickly wetted by the caustic soda, so it can quickly get to work on it. The surfacant also has cleaning properties in that it can break dirt down into small particles and surround it, making it appear to be soluable when in fact it isn't by itself. A domestic cleaning product is only likely to contain sufficient caustic soda to make it alkaline i.e. bugger all. It has to be mentioned in the safety data though, whereas the main ingredients are probably not considered hazardous. IIRC surfactants are either non-ionic (non-foaming), anionic (foaming), cationic (forming a film on the surface- hair conditioner etc). I remember an occasion many moons ago when every hotel room in London was taken because of a....surfactant conference. Obviously very big business, even then. |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
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bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
... On 2007-10-10 11:52:54 +0100, (Andrew Gabriel) said: In article , Andy Hall writes: On 2007-10-09 23:37:31 +0100, "Clive George" said: "Andy Hall" wrote in message ... A recently purchased pack of dishwasher cleaner claimed to have X% of non ionic surfactant which all sounds very innocent and like the instruction book for a 1960s girl's chemistry set. Reading in more detail and looking at the MSDS revealed that it was our old friend, NaOH. No other ingredients were mentioned. That'll be what does some of the work, but there will be a non ionic surfactant as well, since NaOH doesn't fit that definition at all. cheers, clive I see. What things fall within that definitiion? A wetting agent, like a detergent (except they are more commonly ionic surfactants). It's a long time ago since I knew this, but IIRC ionic surfacants tend to foam easily as they skin over water one molecule thick with the charged end of the molecule in the water and the uncharged end sticking out, aiding bubble formation. This is a bad thing in a dishwasher as anyone who's tried using regular washing up liquid in one will tell you. Non-ionic surfactants don't do that. The surfacant ensures the food can be quickly wetted by the caustic soda, so it can quickly get to work on it. The surfacant also has cleaning properties in that it can break dirt down into small particles and surround it, making it appear to be soluable when in fact it isn't by itself. OK. By dishwasher cleaner here I meant the product that can be put in periodically to clean the machine itself. Makes no difference. You still don't want a foaming surfactant. You could well have more NaOH to attack the stubborn stuff a bit more, but that still doesn't make it a) non-ionic b) a surfactant, or c) miscible with oil/grease. You still need the surfactant as Andrew said above. cheers, clive |
bicarbonate of soda / soda crystals
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:34:26 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote: By dishwasher cleaner here I meant the product that can be put in periodically to clean the machine itself. Water? :-) -- Frank Erskine |
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