I heard some bloke at an energy efficiency company advising people to
turn their boiler control UP (leaving their room and cylinder stats
alone). ie: If the switch on the boiler went 1-6 and it was at 3, turn
it to 4 or 4.5.

He said this is because the boiler gets hotter quicker, heats the tank
quicker, and reduces cycling. Thus saving energy. But won't this mess
with the condensing point of a condensing boiler?

His argument is: tank calls for heat, boiler and pump start, boiler
reaches temp and turns off, tank still wants heat, pump still goes,
primary side water and boiler cool, hence the waste.

It all just doesn't quite sound right, somehow!

On 2007-09-04 07:05:02 +0100, Jonathan said:

I heard some bloke at an energy efficiency company advising people to
turn their boiler control UP (leaving their room and cylinder stats
alone). ie: If the switch on the boiler went 1-6 and it was at 3, turn
it to 4 or 4.5.

He said this is because the boiler gets hotter quicker, heats the tank
quicker, and reduces cycling. Thus saving energy.

That might be true with a conventional boiler if the cylinder is able
to accept all of the boiler output.



But won't this mess
with the condensing point of a condensing boiler?

There isn't a Holy Grail at the condensing point. Nirvana isn't
achieved. All that happens is that the *rate* of increasing
efficiency with reducing temperature increases - i.e. a knee in the
curve.





His argument is: tank calls for heat, boiler and pump start, boiler
reaches temp and turns off, tank still wants heat, pump still goes,
primary side water and boiler cool, hence the waste.

It all just doesn't quite sound right, somehow!

It's a jumble.

If it's a modulating model (typically should be), a cool water cylinder
will present a substantial heat load and the boiler will run balls out
condensing heavily because the return water is cool.

For a radiator load with TRVs reducing flow, the boiler will modulate
down to match the load.

"Jonathan" wrote in message
ups.com...

I heard some bloke at an energy efficiency
company advising people to turn their boiler
control UP (leaving their room and cylinder stats
alone). ie: If the switch on the boiler went 1-6
and it was at 3, turn it to 4 or 4.5.

He said this is because the boiler gets
hotter quicker, heats the tank
quicker, and reduces cycling. Thus saving
energy. But won't this mess with the
condensing point of a condensing boiler?

During DHW is stored at high temperatures and at kleast 60C for the
prvention of legionella. When re-heating the boier temperature has to be
hot. You can't get away from it. Condnesing boier or not it has to be hot.
The only boier know that condenses wt all tiomes when supplying DHW is the
ACV Heatmaster, which has a unique combied tank-in-tank/boiler. A class act.

His argument is: tank calls for heat, boiler and pump start, boiler
reaches temp and turns off, tank still wants heat, pump still goes,
primary side water and boiler cool, hence the waste.

The heat exchanger has to take all of the boilers output. The best heat
exchange is a plate heat exchanger and bronze pump using a direct cylinder
Works out cheaper than a cylinder with a quick recovery coil in many cases.
Glow Worm in their new Extramax and Ultramax boilers use this method to
reheat an integral unvented cylinder. These plates extract so much heat
from the boiler it can really lower the return temperature to condensing
levels for most of re-heat time.

He is generally right. But, the cylinder coil has to take the boilers
output. On re-heating from cold a Part L cylinder will take the output of
the average boiler when set to 80C for the initial part of the re-heat,
until the return temperature is raised.

The problem is having the boiler at the ideal temperaure for CH to promote
condesning efficiency. An outside weather compensator can do this. Boilers
are available that will re-heat water at full belt and switch to weather
compensation on CH. Even so external waether compensators and the odd reply
can do this too.

It all just doesn't quite sound right, somehow!

The best is a heat bank in which the bottom CH half is heated by a weather
compensator. The boiler operates in a superior full flow through the heat
exchanger hydraulic environment, as does the CH circuit too. Boilers last
far longer when heating heat banks.

Doctor Drivel wrote:


"Jonathan" wrote in message
ups.com...

I heard some bloke at an energy efficiency
company advising people to turn their boiler
control UP (leaving their room and cylinder stats
alone). ie: If the switch on the boiler went 1-6
and it was at 3, turn it to 4 or 4.5.

He said this is because the boiler gets
hotter quicker, heats the tank
quicker, and reduces cycling. Thus saving
energy. But won't this mess with the
condensing point of a condensing boiler?


During DHW is stored at high temperatures and at kleast 60C for the
prvention of legionella. When re-heating the boier temperature has to
be hot. You can't get away from it. Condnesing boier or not it has to
be hot. The only boier know that condenses wt all tiomes when supplying
DHW is the ACV Heatmaster, which has a unique combied
tank-in-tank/boiler. A class act.

His argument is: tank calls for heat, boiler and pump start, boiler
reaches temp and turns off, tank still wants heat, pump still goes,
primary side water and boiler cool, hence the waste.


The heat exchanger has to take all of the boilers output. The best heat
exchange is a plate heat exchanger and bronze pump using a direct
cylinder Works out cheaper than a cylinder with a quick recovery coil in
many cases. Glow Worm in their new Extramax and Ultramax boilers use
this method to reheat an integral unvented cylinder. These plates
extract so much heat from the boiler it can really lower the return
temperature to condensing levels for most of re-heat time.

He is generally right. But, the cylinder coil has to take the boilers
output. On re-heating from cold a Part L cylinder will take the output
of the average boiler when set to 80C for the initial part of the
re-heat, until the return temperature is raised.

The problem is having the boiler at the ideal temperaure for CH to
promote condesning efficiency. An outside weather compensator can do
this. Boilers are available that will re-heat water at full belt and
switch to weather compensation on CH. Even so external waether
compensators and the odd reply can do this too.

It all just doesn't quite sound right, somehow!


The best is a heat bank in which the bottom CH half is heated by a
weather compensator. The boiler operates in a superior full flow through
the heat exchanger hydraulic environment, as does the CH circuit too.
Boilers last far longer when heating heat banks.

What course did you go on, to talk bollockese?

Dave

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Dave

Oh PatnDave..the pefect couple.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
...

Dave


Oh PatnDave..the pefect couple.

We almost are. Not that any couple is perfect. She is an expert in
humanity things and I am somewhat a bull **** detector :-)

Dave

On 2007-09-07 19:17:40 +0100, Dave said:

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
...

Dave


Oh PatnDave..the pefect couple.

We almost are. Not that any couple is perfect. She is an expert in
humanity things and I am somewhat a bull **** detector :-)

Dave

So this was like falling off of a log then? ;-)

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
...

Dave


Oh PatnDave..the pefect couple.

We almost are. Not that any couple is perfect. She is an expert in
humanity things and I am somewhat a bull **** detector :-)

...the perfect couple then...PatnDave. Are you to be on Richard & Judy?

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-09-07 19:17:40 +0100, Dave said:

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
...

Dave


Oh PatnDave..the pefect couple.

We almost are. Not that any couple is perfect. She is an expert in
humanity things and I am somewhat a bull **** detector :-)

Dave

So this was like falling off of a log then? ;-)

I'm sure they fall off lots of logs.