A mate has had a kitchen fitted about 6 months ago that involved major
electrical work, new cooker feed, adding a new ring main just for kicthen
and electical underfloor heating. All is now complete'ish, new ceiling up,
walls replastered, and tiled, painting done, floor tiled etc.

However speaking to him the other day he realised he has absolutely nothing
in terms of paperwork to do with the electrical testing/Part P. Went back
the fitting company who said the fitter they employed was Part P self
certifying and should have given him the paperwork of what he did, but as
they have parted company with this fitter my mate should therefore get the
electrics certified/tested and the fitting company will pay. No problem he
thought.

A quick phone call to a couple of electricians reveals a problem, none of
them are interested as they did not fit the electrical installation so
therefore cannot sign it off as they can no longer physically inspect
it.!!!!!

I suspect my mate is asking for the wrong thing, what should he be asking
electricians for ?

Should be asking the local building control for "completion certificate"

The fitting company is not much help as they only employ self certifying
fitters and don't have a clue what paperwork should be issued.

Ian_m wrote:

However speaking to him the other day he realised he has absolutely
nothing in terms of paperwork to do with the electrical testing/Part P.
Went back the fitting company who said the fitter they employed was Part
P self certifying and should have given him the paperwork of what he
did, but as they have parted company with this fitter my mate should
therefore get the electrics certified/tested and the fitting company
will pay. No problem he thought.

A quick phone call to a couple of electricians reveals a problem, none
of them are interested as they did not fit the electrical installation
so therefore cannot sign it off as they can no longer physically inspect
it.!!!!!

They are right, there is no provision in part P for anyone other than
the original installer to be able to self certify it. A third party can
not come along later and issue one for him.

I suspect my mate is asking for the wrong thing, what should he be
asking electricians for ?

Nothing, he would need to contact the original electrician.

Should be asking the local building control for "completion certificate"

Was this work being done under a building notice? If not then no.

The fitting company is not much help as they only employ self certifying
fitters and don't have a clue what paperwork should be issued.

About par for the course. If building control are not involved then he
may as well go without.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 30 May 2007 16:28:12 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Ian_m wrote:

However speaking to him the other day he realised he has absolutely
nothing in terms of paperwork to do with the electrical testing/Part P.
Went back the fitting company who said the fitter they employed was Part
P self certifying and should have given him the paperwork of what he
did, but as they have parted company with this fitter my mate should
therefore get the electrics certified/tested and the fitting company
will pay. No problem he thought.

A quick phone call to a couple of electricians reveals a problem, none
of them are interested as they did not fit the electrical installation
so therefore cannot sign it off as they can no longer physically inspect
it.!!!!!

They are right, there is no provision in part P for anyone other than
the original installer to be able to self certify it. A third party can
not come along later and issue one for him.

I suspect my mate is asking for the wrong thing, what should he be
asking electricians for ?

Nothing, he would need to contact the original electrician.

Should be asking the local building control for "completion certificate"

Was this work being done under a building notice? If not then no.

The fitting company is not much help as they only employ self certifying
fitters and don't have a clue what paperwork should be issued.

About par for the course. If building control are not involved then he
may as well go without.

This is just another example of how badly thought out this law was.
what happens if someone becomes seriously ill or worse at the end of an
installation?

Unless you need the paperwork to sell the house I'd just forget it.
If you do then you'll have to get a Periodic from an electrician.




--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

However speaking to him the other day he realised he has absolutely
nothing in terms of paperwork to do with the electrical testing/Part P.
Went back the fitting company who said the fitter they employed was Part
P self certifying and should have given him the paperwork of what he did,
but as they have parted company with this fitter my mate should therefore
get the electrics certified/tested and the fitting company will pay. No
problem he thought.

A quick phone call to a couple of electricians reveals a problem, none of
them are interested as they did not fit the electrical installation so
therefore cannot sign it off as they can no longer physically inspect
it.!!!!!

They are right, there is no provision in part P for anyone other than the
original installer to be able to self certify it. A third party can not
come along later and issue one for him.

I suspect my mate is asking for the wrong thing, what should he be asking
electricians for ?

Nothing, he would need to contact the original electrician.

He has contacted the original fitter (kept his mobile) who was employed by
the kitchen company, but the two of them are no longer on speaking terms.
The fitter wants nothing to do with it anymore. Fiiter says he submitted the
relevant test and signed off paperwork to the kitchen company. He says he
must have or else he would not have been paid for the job.

The fitter apparently was sacked due to "anomolous billing of jobs", rather
than quality of his work.

Anyway my mate is no further forward...The list of deliverables for his
kitchen does state Part P compliance.

Ian_m wrote:

Anyway my mate is no further forward...The list of deliverables for his
kitchen does state Part P compliance.

Since his only contract is with them, then they are the ones he will
have to play hardball with then. (especially if he has not paid the bill
yet)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Ian_m" wrote

A mate has had a kitchen fitted about 6 months ago that involved major
electrical work, new cooker feed, adding a new ring main just for kicthen
and electical underfloor heating. All is now complete'ish................

So has he paid the full amount to the kitchen supply company?

If the electrician was appointed by (and effectively under the control of)
the kitchen company , i. e. nothing to do with your mate, then it should be
the kitchen company's responsibility to provide an install that meets
current regs! This obviously includes the provision of appropriate
paperwork.

I recently had a major heating upgrade which included all new electrics,
controls etc.
My agreement was with the plumbing company who sub'd the work out to a local
lekky.
It was the plumbing company I approached to get the Part P certification -
but I had'nt paid the bill at that point!
AIUI the plumbing company (in my case) and the kitchen company (in your
mate's case) are adopting the role of "main contractor" and as such become
liable for the project as a whole. Although they will conveniently (for
them) try to distance themselves from their own appointed subbies as and
when it suits.

Phil

On 30 May, 16:07, "Ian_m" wrote:
A mate has had a kitchen fitted about 6 months ago that involved major
electrical work, new cooker feed, adding a new ring main just for kicthen
and electical underfloor heating. All is now complete'ish, new ceiling up,
walls replastered, and tiled, painting done, floor tiled etc.

However speaking to him the other day he realised he has absolutely nothing
in terms of paperwork to do with the electrical testing/Part P. Went back
the fitting company who said the fitter they employed was Part P self
certifying and should have given him the paperwork of what he did, but as
they have parted company with this fitter my mate should therefore get the
electrics certified/tested and the fitting company will pay. No problem he
thought.

A quick phone call to a couple of electricians reveals a problem, none of
them are interested as they did not fit the electrical installation so
therefore cannot sign it off as they can no longer physically inspect
it.!!!!!

I suspect my mate is asking for the wrong thing, what should he be asking
electricians for ?

Should be asking the local building control for "completion certificate"

The fitting company is not much help as they only employ self certifying
fitters and don't have a clue what paperwork should be issued.

I would just forget about it. I've never seen a Part P certificate.
Mother-in-law's new bathroom was fitted by an electrician who lied
about being part P. Neighbors house was renovated and signed off by
building control despite no electrical certificate. Another neighbor's
new house wasn't given an electrical certificate, but also signed off
by BC.

You could do a building notice, then call in the inspector when the
work is "done".

T

On 30 May 2007 09:14:28 -0700, a particular chimpanzee,
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

You could do a building notice, then call in the inspector when the
work is "done".

NAPIT does allow testing of third party installations. From their
website, the FAQ for their members says this:

"Can I notify a job if I carry out the electrical inspection &
testing?

(Approved Document P) Clause 1.22 allows an unregistered installer to
submit the BS7671 installation certificate and says that the building
control body will take this into account. If an appropriately
qualified NAPIT members has carried out third party electrical
inspection and testing for such an unregistered installer then they
can complete the BS7671 installation certificate providing they follow
the advice given in the question & answer above and only sign off the
inspect and test element. The member cannot notify the job in this
case".
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

"Hugo Nebula" abuse@localhost wrote in message
...
On 30 May 2007 09:14:28 -0700, a particular chimpanzee,
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

You could do a building notice, then call in the inspector when the
work is "done".

NAPIT does allow testing of third party installations. From their
website, the FAQ for their members says this:

"Can I notify a job if I carry out the electrical inspection &
testing?

(Approved Document P) Clause 1.22 allows an unregistered installer to
submit the BS7671 installation certificate and says that the building
control body will take this into account. If an appropriately
qualified NAPIT members has carried out third party electrical
inspection and testing for such an unregistered installer then they
can complete the BS7671 installation certificate providing they follow
the advice given in the question & answer above and only sign off the
inspect and test element. The member cannot notify the job in this
case".
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

All the inspection bodies allow for the test and inspection of
installations. I can do this and sign the inspect and test part of the cert,
BUT, I cannot still notify it, because I would not have carried out the
installation. So basically he has an issue with the contractor that needs
resolving if he sells the property.

--
Regards

Stephen Dawson
Fox Electrical Services Ltd
www.foxelectrical.co.uk

NAPIT does allow testing of third party installations. From their
website, the FAQ for their members says this:

"Can I notify a job if I carry out the electrical inspection &
testing?

(Approved Document P) Clause 1.22 allows an unregistered installer to
submit the BS7671 installation certificate and says that the building
control body will take this into account. If an appropriately
qualified NAPIT members has carried out third party electrical
inspection and testing for such an unregistered installer then they
can complete the BS7671 installation certificate providing they follow
the advice given in the question & answer above and only sign off the
inspect and test element. The member cannot notify the job in this
case".
--
How do you perform an inspection if wires are now behind plasterboard, tiles
etc ? I did see it when work was in progress and all the socket feeds were
vertically fed, though I am sure the new cooker feed stretched the word
"vertical" as I suspect the cooker isolating socket was moved after the
ceiling had been refitted.

On 31 May, 13:42, "Ian_m" wrote:
NAPIT does allow testing of third party installations. From their
website, the FAQ for their members says this:

"Can I notify a job if I carry out the electrical inspection &
testing?

(Approved Document P) Clause 1.22 allows an unregistered installer to
submit the BS7671 installation certificate and says that the building
control body will take this into account. If an appropriately
qualified NAPIT members has carried out third party electrical
inspection and testing for such an unregistered installer then they
can complete the BS7671 installation certificate providing they follow
the advice given in the question & answer above and only sign off the
inspect and test element. The member cannot notify the job in this
case".
--

How do you perform an inspection if wires are now behind plasterboard, tiles
etc ? I did see it when work was in progress and all the socket feeds were
vertically fed, though I am sure the new cooker feed stretched the word
"vertical" as I suspect the cooker isolating socket was moved after the
ceiling had been refitted.

That's a fair point. However, we are talking about a piece of paper
here, whose sole purpose is to get the authorities off our back! In
all inspection assumptions are made, and only a percentage of an
installation is checked. If standard practice has been obviously
followed, then you might be in luck.

T

wrote in message
ps.com...
On 31 May, 13:42, "Ian_m" wrote:
NAPIT does allow testing of third party installations. From their
website, the FAQ for their members says this:

"Can I notify a job if I carry out the electrical inspection &
testing?

(Approved Document P) Clause 1.22 allows an unregistered installer to
submit the BS7671 installation certificate and says that the building
control body will take this into account. If an appropriately
qualified NAPIT members has carried out third party electrical
inspection and testing for such an unregistered installer then they
can complete the BS7671 installation certificate providing they follow
the advice given in the question & answer above and only sign off the
inspect and test element. The member cannot notify the job in this
case".
--

How do you perform an inspection if wires are now behind plasterboard,
tiles
etc ? I did see it when work was in progress and all the socket feeds
were
vertically fed, though I am sure the new cooker feed stretched the word
"vertical" as I suspect the cooker isolating socket was moved after the
ceiling had been refitted.

That's a fair point. However, we are talking about a piece of paper
here, whose sole purpose is to get the authorities off our back! In
all inspection assumptions are made, and only a percentage of an
installation is checked. If standard practice has been obviously
followed, then you might be in luck.

Anyway speaking to local BCO they say he can get an inspection and test
certificate, pay council £80 and they will issue a regulations completion
certificate (or something like that) and he can sleep more easily, earn
millions and live for ever........You can tell my mate is losing interest
very quickly.....