Hi,

I am hoping someone here can shed some light and offer me some advice, sorry if the post drags on.

The above mentioned boiler has always been odd since we moved in, loosing pressure (water), poor hot water flow upstairs in bathroom.
Landlord called out his "fitter"... who serviced the boiler and gave us a safety certificate. At the time, I knew nothing, but have since self educated from books, media and web sites like this.

His service... involved replacing air into the back top of boiler. Then writing down some stuff, checking dials... and all this without removing front cover?...

Well we just got used to the boiler, topping water up through the flexible joint at the bottom, until it reaches between 1 and 1 and a half bar.

Then a week ago, the hot water simply stopped... no hot water without the CH being on at the sametime, and even then, the water is only luke warm.

Well Landlord brought his "new" fitter, who looked at it, and said "oh" one of these.
He then started to strip it down, and I explained how Ariston via an email to me, said it should be the Divertor Valve and probably a de-scale. So he then proceded to order the parts needed.
The next day they turned up with the Service kit for the Divertor Valve and some Fernox.
He stripped down the Divertor Valve and found the Diaphragm was not only perished, but had a split. He then pulled out the heat exchanger?? big grey vessel from rear... and left that for about two hours soaking.
They then returned to refit, he had then forgotten how to put the divertor valve back together, so was fun and games whilst he tried to work it out. Eventually all was back where it should be, and they proceded to add water pressure back, then about 6 of the parts he had unscrewed leaked, so he then got his "blue?" something to remedy the leaks. Time had now reached 9pm...... so he did a quick run around released air from radiators, but the boiler refused to kick in on hot water only, the fault was still there... only this time, it was worse, the flames now turn off when you turn the hot water tap on...when in ch and dhw mode. Radiators are lovely and hot, just no hot water, well... it does fill up a small amount...you run it for about a litre, and then it runs cold, and the temp gauge goes from 70 to 40, turn the tap off, and the boiler kicks in again, and heats again this small amount of water....

I asked the fitter were the micro switches at the top being pushed correctly by the t piece at top of divertor, he tried it with his screwdriver and that kicked the boiler in..... so they decided to leave it for the night and order new microswitches, this was Wednesday. On friday, I rang Landlord and asked where they were... he said fitter is out of town and he is waiting for the switches, I lost it and said it was Next day delivery..... how long do you think me and my family can do without hot water.... so I then emailed Ariston Tech support, they replied one sentence.
You have a Circulation Problem.... a Good fitter will know this.

So I passed the info to landlord, maybe the switches were wasting more money?.... I got a txt yesterday from landlord, suggesting that if I still do not have hot water ( yeah sure the boiler fairies fixed it while we were asleep) we are welcome to come to his home and use his bath??... I simply have not replied, as I am close to well blowing my top.

So please, any people who are well versed in this sort of problem who has any suggestions and advice it will be really appreciated.
Grim...

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 12:37:09 +0000, GrimReaper wrote:

Hi,

I am hoping someone here can shed some light and offer me some advice,
sorry if the post drags on.

The above mentioned boiler has always been odd since we moved in,
loosing pressure (water), poor hot water flow upstairs in bathroom.
Landlord called out his "fitter"... who serviced the boiler and gave us
a safety certificate. At the time, I knew nothing, but have since self
educated from books, media and web sites like this.

His service... involved replacing air into the back top of boiler. Then
writing down some stuff, checking dials... and all this without removing
front cover?...

Well we just got used to the boiler, topping water up through the
flexible joint at the bottom, until it reaches between 1 and 1 and a
half bar.

Then a week ago, the hot water simply stopped... no hot water without
the CH being on at the sametime, and even then, the water is only luke
warm.

Well Landlord brought his "new" fitter, who looked at it, and said "oh"
one of these.
He then started to strip it down, and I explained how Ariston via an
email to me, said it should be the Divertor Valve and probably a
de-scale. So he then proceded to order the parts needed.
The next day they turned up with the Service kit for the Divertor Valve
and some Fernox.
He stripped down the Divertor Valve and found the Diaphragm was not
only perished, but had a split. He then pulled out the heat exchanger??
big grey vessel from rear... and left that for about two hours soaking.
They then returned to refit, he had then forgotten how to put the
divertor valve back together, so was fun and games whilst he tried to
work it out. Eventually all was back where it should be, and they
proceded to add water pressure back, then about 6 of the parts he had
unscrewed leaked, so he then got his "blue?" something to remedy the
leaks. Time had now reached 9pm...... so he did a quick run around
released air from radiators, but the boiler refused to kick in on hot
water only, the fault was still there... only this time, it was worse,
the flames now turn off when you turn the hot water tap on...when in ch
and dhw mode. Radiators are lovely and hot, just no hot water, well...
it does fill up a small amount...you run it for about a litre, and then
it runs cold, and the temp gauge goes from 70 to 40, turn the tap off,
and the boiler kicks in again, and heats again this small amount of
water....

I asked the fitter were the micro switches at the top being pushed
correctly by the t piece at top of divertor, he tried it with his
screwdriver and that kicked the boiler in..... so they decided to leave
it for the night and order new microswitches, this was Wednesday. On
friday, I rang Landlord and asked where they were... he said fitter is
out of town and he is waiting for the switches, I lost it and said it
was Next day delivery..... how long do you think me and my family can
do without hot water.... so I then emailed Ariston Tech support, they
replied one sentence.
You have a Circulation Problem.... a Good fitter will know this.

So I passed the info to landlord, maybe the switches were wasting more
money?.... I got a txt yesterday from landlord, suggesting that if I
still do not have hot water ( yeah sure the boiler fairies fixed it
while we were asleep) we are welcome to come to his home and use his
bath??... I simply have not replied, as I am close to well blowing my
top.

So please, any people who are well versed in this sort of problem who
has any suggestions and advice it will be really appreciated.
Grim...


This is the classic cascade of troubles stemming from the original fault
of a split diaphragm followed by continued topping up.

The root cause of the DHW troubles is probably the small differential
pressure diaphragm on the end of the diverter valve.

Trouble with boilers at this end of the market is that they tend develop
new faults as you try to eliminate the original ones.

Given the problems the only sure way will be to replace both the expansion
vessel and the complete diverter valve assembly and flush the system clean.

You might as well fit a new boiler...

It sounds grim but you'd know about that.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 12:37:09 +0000, GrimReaper wrote:

Hi,

I am hoping someone here can shed some light and offer me some advice,
sorry if the post drags on.

The above mentioned boiler has always been odd since we moved in,
loosing pressure (water), poor hot water flow upstairs in bathroom.
Landlord called out his "fitter"... who serviced the boiler and gave us
a safety certificate. At the time, I knew nothing, but have since self
educated from books, media and web sites like this.

His service... involved replacing air into the back top of boiler. Then
writing down some stuff, checking dials... and all this without removing
front cover?...

Well we just got used to the boiler, topping water up through the
flexible joint at the bottom, until it reaches between 1 and 1 and a
half bar.

Then a week ago, the hot water simply stopped... no hot water without
the CH being on at the sametime, and even then, the water is only luke
warm.

Well Landlord brought his "new" fitter, who looked at it, and said "oh"
one of these.
He then started to strip it down, and I explained how Ariston via an
email to me, said it should be the Divertor Valve and probably a
de-scale. So he then proceded to order the parts needed.
The next day they turned up with the Service kit for the Divertor Valve
and some Fernox.
He stripped down the Divertor Valve and found the Diaphragm was not
only perished, but had a split. He then pulled out the heat exchanger??
big grey vessel from rear... and left that for about two hours soaking.
They then returned to refit, he had then forgotten how to put the
divertor valve back together, so was fun and games whilst he tried to
work it out. Eventually all was back where it should be, and they
proceded to add water pressure back, then about 6 of the parts he had
unscrewed leaked, so he then got his "blue?" something to remedy the
leaks. Time had now reached 9pm...... so he did a quick run around
released air from radiators, but the boiler refused to kick in on hot
water only, the fault was still there... only this time, it was worse,
the flames now turn off when you turn the hot water tap on...when in ch
and dhw mode. Radiators are lovely and hot, just no hot water, well...
it does fill up a small amount...you run it for about a litre, and then
it runs cold, and the temp gauge goes from 70 to 40, turn the tap off,
and the boiler kicks in again, and heats again this small amount of
water....

I asked the fitter were the micro switches at the top being pushed
correctly by the t piece at top of divertor, he tried it with his
screwdriver and that kicked the boiler in..... so they decided to leave
it for the night and order new microswitches, this was Wednesday. On
friday, I rang Landlord and asked where they were... he said fitter is
out of town and he is waiting for the switches, I lost it and said it
was Next day delivery..... how long do you think me and my family can
do without hot water.... so I then emailed Ariston Tech support, they
replied one sentence.
You have a Circulation Problem.... a Good fitter will know this.

So I passed the info to landlord, maybe the switches were wasting more
money?.... I got a txt yesterday from landlord, suggesting that if I
still do not have hot water ( yeah sure the boiler fairies fixed it
while we were asleep) we are welcome to come to his home and use his
bath??... I simply have not replied, as I am close to well blowing my
top.

So please, any people who are well versed in this sort of problem who
has any suggestions and advice it will be really appreciated.
Grim...


This is the classic cascade of troubles stemming from the original fault
of a split diaphragm followed by continued topping up.

The root cause of the DHW troubles is probably the small differential
pressure diaphragm on the end of the diverter valve.

Trouble with boilers at this end of the market is that they tend develop
new faults as you try to eliminate the original ones.

Given the problems the only sure way will be to replace both the expansion
vessel and the complete diverter valve assembly and flush the system clean.

You might as well fit a new boiler...

It sounds grim but you'd know about that.



Could be a job for British Gas and their fixed price repair. £200
whatever the problem sounds good in this instance

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 22:06:23 +0000, Stuart Noble wrote:

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 12:37:09 +0000, GrimReaper wrote:

Hi,

I am hoping someone here can shed some light and offer me some advice,
sorry if the post drags on.

The above mentioned boiler has always been odd since we moved in,
loosing pressure (water), poor hot water flow upstairs in bathroom.
Landlord called out his "fitter"... who serviced the boiler and gave us
a safety certificate. At the time, I knew nothing, but have since self
educated from books, media and web sites like this.

His service... involved replacing air into the back top of boiler. Then
writing down some stuff, checking dials... and all this without removing
front cover?...

Well we just got used to the boiler, topping water up through the
flexible joint at the bottom, until it reaches between 1 and 1 and a
half bar.

Then a week ago, the hot water simply stopped... no hot water without
the CH being on at the sametime, and even then, the water is only luke
warm.

Well Landlord brought his "new" fitter, who looked at it, and said "oh"
one of these.
He then started to strip it down, and I explained how Ariston via an
email to me, said it should be the Divertor Valve and probably a
de-scale. So he then proceded to order the parts needed.
The next day they turned up with the Service kit for the Divertor Valve
and some Fernox.
He stripped down the Divertor Valve and found the Diaphragm was not
only perished, but had a split. He then pulled out the heat exchanger??
big grey vessel from rear... and left that for about two hours soaking.
They then returned to refit, he had then forgotten how to put the
divertor valve back together, so was fun and games whilst he tried to
work it out. Eventually all was back where it should be, and they
proceded to add water pressure back, then about 6 of the parts he had
unscrewed leaked, so he then got his "blue?" something to remedy the
leaks. Time had now reached 9pm...... so he did a quick run around
released air from radiators, but the boiler refused to kick in on hot
water only, the fault was still there... only this time, it was worse,
the flames now turn off when you turn the hot water tap on...when in ch
and dhw mode. Radiators are lovely and hot, just no hot water, well...
it does fill up a small amount...you run it for about a litre, and then
it runs cold, and the temp gauge goes from 70 to 40, turn the tap off,
and the boiler kicks in again, and heats again this small amount of
water....

I asked the fitter were the micro switches at the top being pushed
correctly by the t piece at top of divertor, he tried it with his
screwdriver and that kicked the boiler in..... so they decided to leave
it for the night and order new microswitches, this was Wednesday. On
friday, I rang Landlord and asked where they were... he said fitter is
out of town and he is waiting for the switches, I lost it and said it
was Next day delivery..... how long do you think me and my family can
do without hot water.... so I then emailed Ariston Tech support, they
replied one sentence.
You have a Circulation Problem.... a Good fitter will know this.

So I passed the info to landlord, maybe the switches were wasting more
money?.... I got a txt yesterday from landlord, suggesting that if I
still do not have hot water ( yeah sure the boiler fairies fixed it
while we were asleep) we are welcome to come to his home and use his
bath??... I simply have not replied, as I am close to well blowing my
top.

So please, any people who are well versed in this sort of problem who
has any suggestions and advice it will be really appreciated.
Grim...


This is the classic cascade of troubles stemming from the original fault
of a split diaphragm followed by continued topping up.

The root cause of the DHW troubles is probably the small differential
pressure diaphragm on the end of the diverter valve.

Trouble with boilers at this end of the market is that they tend develop
new faults as you try to eliminate the original ones.

Given the problems the only sure way will be to replace both the expansion
vessel and the complete diverter valve assembly and flush the system clean.

You might as well fit a new boiler...

It sounds grim but you'd know about that.



Could be a job for British Gas and their fixed price repair. £200
whatever the problem sounds good in this instance

Since the 'real' cost of this repair is way in excess of £200 they would
surely find some way of wriggling.

Let's look at the real costs:

A new expansion vessel (OEM part £100-£150) or might be able to add
generic elsewhere for £30.
May be just a DHW diaphragm but we now have leaks. So really you're
looking at OEM £100-£150 for a new complete assembly.

You might or might not get a result by simply replacing the parts and
hoping that things work.

So realistically this is 1/2 day + £250 parts. With risks of no result.

Now BG will almost certainly try to swing the 'power flushing scam' at
£400+VAT. Now the work would be 1 day plus £250 parts.

So maybe for £670 they can fix the boiler at a profit even.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 22:06:23 +0000, Stuart Noble wrote:

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 12:37:09 +0000, GrimReaper wrote:

Hi,

I am hoping someone here can shed some light and offer me some advice,
sorry if the post drags on.

The above mentioned boiler has always been odd since we moved in,
loosing pressure (water), poor hot water flow upstairs in bathroom.
Landlord called out his "fitter"... who serviced the boiler and gave us
a safety certificate. At the time, I knew nothing, but have since self
educated from books, media and web sites like this.

His service... involved replacing air into the back top of boiler. Then
writing down some stuff, checking dials... and all this without removing
front cover?...

Well we just got used to the boiler, topping water up through the
flexible joint at the bottom, until it reaches between 1 and 1 and a
half bar.

Then a week ago, the hot water simply stopped... no hot water without
the CH being on at the sametime, and even then, the water is only luke
warm.

Well Landlord brought his "new" fitter, who looked at it, and said "oh"
one of these.
He then started to strip it down, and I explained how Ariston via an
email to me, said it should be the Divertor Valve and probably a
de-scale. So he then proceded to order the parts needed.
The next day they turned up with the Service kit for the Divertor Valve
and some Fernox.
He stripped down the Divertor Valve and found the Diaphragm was not
only perished, but had a split. He then pulled out the heat exchanger??
big grey vessel from rear... and left that for about two hours soaking.
They then returned to refit, he had then forgotten how to put the
divertor valve back together, so was fun and games whilst he tried to
work it out. Eventually all was back where it should be, and they
proceded to add water pressure back, then about 6 of the parts he had
unscrewed leaked, so he then got his "blue?" something to remedy the
leaks. Time had now reached 9pm...... so he did a quick run around
released air from radiators, but the boiler refused to kick in on hot
water only, the fault was still there... only this time, it was worse,
the flames now turn off when you turn the hot water tap on...when in ch
and dhw mode. Radiators are lovely and hot, just no hot water, well...
it does fill up a small amount...you run it for about a litre, and then
it runs cold, and the temp gauge goes from 70 to 40, turn the tap off,
and the boiler kicks in again, and heats again this small amount of
water....

I asked the fitter were the micro switches at the top being pushed
correctly by the t piece at top of divertor, he tried it with his
screwdriver and that kicked the boiler in..... so they decided to leave
it for the night and order new microswitches, this was Wednesday. On
friday, I rang Landlord and asked where they were... he said fitter is
out of town and he is waiting for the switches, I lost it and said it
was Next day delivery..... how long do you think me and my family can
do without hot water.... so I then emailed Ariston Tech support, they
replied one sentence.
You have a Circulation Problem.... a Good fitter will know this.

So I passed the info to landlord, maybe the switches were wasting more
money?.... I got a txt yesterday from landlord, suggesting that if I
still do not have hot water ( yeah sure the boiler fairies fixed it
while we were asleep) we are welcome to come to his home and use his
bath??... I simply have not replied, as I am close to well blowing my
top.

So please, any people who are well versed in this sort of problem who
has any suggestions and advice it will be really appreciated.
Grim...

This is the classic cascade of troubles stemming from the original fault
of a split diaphragm followed by continued topping up.

The root cause of the DHW troubles is probably the small differential
pressure diaphragm on the end of the diverter valve.

Trouble with boilers at this end of the market is that they tend develop
new faults as you try to eliminate the original ones.

Given the problems the only sure way will be to replace both the expansion
vessel and the complete diverter valve assembly and flush the system clean.

You might as well fit a new boiler...

It sounds grim but you'd know about that.



Could be a job for British Gas and their fixed price repair. £200
whatever the problem sounds good in this instance

Since the 'real' cost of this repair is way in excess of £200 they would
surely find some way of wriggling.

I don't see how as things stand. I'd get in there quick before the whole
BG scheme is abandoned. I'm sure they're going to get their fingers burnt

On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 10:26:19 +0000, Stuart Noble wrote:

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 22:06:23 +0000, Stuart Noble wrote:

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 12:37:09 +0000, GrimReaper wrote:

Hi,

I am hoping someone here can shed some light and offer me some advice,
sorry if the post drags on.

The above mentioned boiler has always been odd since we moved in,
loosing pressure (water), poor hot water flow upstairs in bathroom.
Landlord called out his "fitter"... who serviced the boiler and gave us
a safety certificate. At the time, I knew nothing, but have since self
educated from books, media and web sites like this.

His service... involved replacing air into the back top of boiler. Then
writing down some stuff, checking dials... and all this without removing
front cover?...

Well we just got used to the boiler, topping water up through the
flexible joint at the bottom, until it reaches between 1 and 1 and a
half bar.

Then a week ago, the hot water simply stopped... no hot water without
the CH being on at the sametime, and even then, the water is only luke
warm.

Well Landlord brought his "new" fitter, who looked at it, and said "oh"
one of these.
He then started to strip it down, and I explained how Ariston via an
email to me, said it should be the Divertor Valve and probably a
de-scale. So he then proceded to order the parts needed.
The next day they turned up with the Service kit for the Divertor Valve
and some Fernox.
He stripped down the Divertor Valve and found the Diaphragm was not
only perished, but had a split. He then pulled out the heat exchanger??
big grey vessel from rear... and left that for about two hours soaking.
They then returned to refit, he had then forgotten how to put the
divertor valve back together, so was fun and games whilst he tried to
work it out. Eventually all was back where it should be, and they
proceded to add water pressure back, then about 6 of the parts he had
unscrewed leaked, so he then got his "blue?" something to remedy the
leaks. Time had now reached 9pm...... so he did a quick run around
released air from radiators, but the boiler refused to kick in on hot
water only, the fault was still there... only this time, it was worse,
the flames now turn off when you turn the hot water tap on...when in ch
and dhw mode. Radiators are lovely and hot, just no hot water, well...
it does fill up a small amount...you run it for about a litre, and then
it runs cold, and the temp gauge goes from 70 to 40, turn the tap off,
and the boiler kicks in again, and heats again this small amount of
water....

I asked the fitter were the micro switches at the top being pushed
correctly by the t piece at top of divertor, he tried it with his
screwdriver and that kicked the boiler in..... so they decided to leave
it for the night and order new microswitches, this was Wednesday. On
friday, I rang Landlord and asked where they were... he said fitter is
out of town and he is waiting for the switches, I lost it and said it
was Next day delivery..... how long do you think me and my family can
do without hot water.... so I then emailed Ariston Tech support, they
replied one sentence.
You have a Circulation Problem.... a Good fitter will know this.

So I passed the info to landlord, maybe the switches were wasting more
money?.... I got a txt yesterday from landlord, suggesting that if I
still do not have hot water ( yeah sure the boiler fairies fixed it
while we were asleep) we are welcome to come to his home and use his
bath??... I simply have not replied, as I am close to well blowing my
top.

So please, any people who are well versed in this sort of problem who
has any suggestions and advice it will be really appreciated.
Grim...

This is the classic cascade of troubles stemming from the original fault
of a split diaphragm followed by continued topping up.

The root cause of the DHW troubles is probably the small differential
pressure diaphragm on the end of the diverter valve.

Trouble with boilers at this end of the market is that they tend develop
new faults as you try to eliminate the original ones.

Given the problems the only sure way will be to replace both the expansion
vessel and the complete diverter valve assembly and flush the system clean.

You might as well fit a new boiler...

It sounds grim but you'd know about that.



Could be a job for British Gas and their fixed price repair. £200
whatever the problem sounds good in this instance

Since the 'real' cost of this repair is way in excess of £200 they would
surely find some way of wriggling.

I don't see how as things stand. I'd get in there quick before the whole
BG scheme is abandoned. I'm sure they're going to get their fingers burnt

It could be a "percentages" marketing approach.

A number of the faults will be simple pilot error, or very simple
faults from stock like pump replacement, thermocouples, synchron motors
etc.

Of the remaining one they may well still not loose money with things like
fans and gas valves, and water flow diaphragms which will take two visits
but they get large economies of scale as they have a huge pool of workers
to schedule efficiently.

Also they may be able to take the common spares for the boiler the
customer (says they) has.

Of the remaining ones they will lose a bit and/or they will try to sell
new boilers, insist on power flushing etc.etc.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

Ok, people..... latest update, might turn out helpful for others trying to trace similiar faults.

Boiler is now working as it should, albeit two minor leaks which just need two new washers tomorrow.

New service kit was fitted to Divertor Valve, old parts were perished(last week)

Fault then was only the Central Heating would work no hot water... turn on tap, to call for water, burner switched off, get about a litre of hot if lucky, definate Circulation problem.

Today, the fitter was back with his Rothenberger De-scaler- sludge remover......Pressure flush.

System was fully cleaned out, lots of sludge and black bits of metallic removed.

New Microswitches fitted also on top of Divertor Valve , they were purchased anyway, so may as well fit.

Boiler was refilled....... and without switching on CH, just the DHW, the system fired straight in, and very fast supply of HOT water, even upstairs, never had it so fast.
Quick flick onto DHW and CH and the same, all working perfectly.

So... chances are, it just needed a good flush, but as the micro switches were changed at sametime, they may also have had some bearing on end result, we will never know.

All I will say, is the system is now quiet... seriously quiet in operation..... there is a lovely whir.... rather than a clatter -rattle and clunk from boiler...... no radiators now whistle... the system is like new.

Thanks all, and I hope this may help others with similiar faults on same model.

Grim.