I am just in the process of acquiring a house with the thought of doing some
DIY on it. However, it has a loft conversion without planning permission
that was done in 1995 - going by the date written on the plaster board. It
even looks as if it was used as a bedroom and the general workmanship looks
poor. So can the council legally force the current owner to revert the loft
to what it once was?

Thanks for your time.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Jason Hallway wrote:

I am just in the process of acquiring a house with the thought of doing
some
DIY on it. However, it has a loft conversion without planning permission
that was done in 1995 - going by the date written on the plaster board.
It
even looks as if it was used as a bedroom and the general workmanship
looks
poor. So can the council legally force the current owner to revert the
loft
to what it once was?

Firstly, why do you believe that it requires planning permission anyway?
Generally loft conversions don't unless you are changing the road facing
aspect of the roof (addition of a front dormer for example).

Yes, it does have a dormer facing the road.

It would have required building regs certification. Do you know if it
has that? (note that this can't retrospectively be enforced)

It doesn't have building regs certification either.

Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Jason Hallway wrote:

I am just in the process of acquiring a house with the thought of doing some
DIY on it. However, it has a loft conversion without planning permission
that was done in 1995 - going by the date written on the plaster board. It
even looks as if it was used as a bedroom and the general workmanship looks
poor. So can the council legally force the current owner to revert the loft
to what it once was?

Firstly, why do you believe that it requires planning permission anyway?
Generally loft conversions don't unless you are changing the road facing
aspect of the roof (addition of a front dormer for example).

It would have required building regs certification. Do you know if it
has that? (note that this can't retrospectively be enforced).

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jason Hallway wrote:


Firstly, why do you believe that it requires planning permission
anyway? Generally loft conversions don't unless you are changing the
road facing aspect of the roof (addition of a front dormer for
example).

Yes, it does have a dormer facing the road.

It would have required building regs certification. Do you know if it
has that? (note that this can't retrospectively be enforced)

It doesn't have building regs certification either.


If you are 'in the process' of acquiring this property, and haven't yet
acquired it, you should insist that planning permission and building regs
approval are both obtained retrospectively by the current owner *before* you
acquire it. Your solicitor should be insisting on this, anyway.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

In article ,
John Rumm writes:
Jason Hallway wrote:

I am just in the process of acquiring a house with the thought of doing some
DIY on it. However, it has a loft conversion without planning permission
that was done in 1995 - going by the date written on the plaster board. It
even looks as if it was used as a bedroom and the general workmanship looks
poor. So can the council legally force the current owner to revert the loft
to what it once was?

Firstly, why do you believe that it requires planning permission anyway?
Generally loft conversions don't unless you are changing the road facing
aspect of the roof (addition of a front dormer for example).

It would have required building regs certification. Do you know if it
has that? (note that this can't retrospectively be enforced).

Unless it's made the structure unsafe.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Owain" wrote in message
...
Jason Hallway wrote:
Firstly, why do you believe that it requires planning permission anyway?
Generally loft conversions don't unless you are changing the road facing
aspect of the roof (addition of a front dormer for example).
Yes, it does have a dormer facing the road.
It would have required building regs certification. Do you know if it
has that? (note that this can't retrospectively be enforced)
It doesn't have building regs certification either.


This is more worrying, as one aspect of Building Regulations is means of
escape from fire.

Yes. I've rung up the council and they have told me that I can convert it
for storage only by removng the staircase to it so that it is no longer a
liability.


Owain

On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 22:47:19 +0000, a particular chimpanzee named
Owain randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

Jason Hallway wrote:

It doesn't have building regs certification either.

This is more worrying, as one aspect of Building Regulations is means of
escape from fire.

Yes, but that's fairly obvious on a completed project if one knows
what to look for. What's not so obvious when things are boarded over
are any structural alterations.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 19:12:39 -0000, a particular chimpanzee named
"Jason Hallway" randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

Yes. I've rung up the council and they have told me that I can convert it
for storage only by removng the staircase to it so that it is no longer a
liability.

Is it as simple as that?

What structural alterations have they carried out? I have seen roofs
where purlin props, lateral restraint, etc have been removed, causing
the roof to be less stable than before the work commenced. Turning
the roof space back to storage wouldn't alleviate that kind of damage.

YMMV, but some Council's take the fixed stair vs. ladder as only one
indicator of whether it's habitable or not. Personally, I would
regard any boarding to the walls and floors, natural light, fixed
heat, light and/or power as more indicative of whether it's habitable
or not than the access to it.

Is there insulation between or under the rafters, and/or boarding
(plasterboard/timber) to the underside of the rafters? Is there
proper ventilation to the roof void above the insulation? If not,
then you could be building up trouble WRT condensation in future.

If I were you, unless I was very sure that there wasn't a _real_
problem with the loft conversion (as opposed to a legal problem of not
having the required permission & approvals), then I would be walking
away from the deal. Sharpish!
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

On Feb 15, 6:05 pm, Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost wrote:
On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 19:12:39 -0000, a particular chimpanzee named
"Jason Hallway" randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

Yes. I've rung up the council and they have told me that I can convert it
for storage only by removng the staircase to it so that it is no longer a
liability.

Is it as simple as that?

What structural alterations have they carried out? I have seen roofs
where purlin props, lateral restraint, etc have been removed, causing
the roof to be less stable than before the work commenced. Turning
the roof space back to storage wouldn't alleviate that kind of damage.

YMMV, but some Council's take the fixed stair vs. ladder as only one
indicator of whether it's habitable or not. Personally, I would
regard any boarding to the walls and floors, natural light, fixed
heat, light and/or power as more indicative of whether it's habitable
or not than the access to it.

I proposed most of the above changes to my loft as a home for a model
railway with access by a loft ladder. The BCO (Aylesbury Vale) was
adamant that it was a loft conversion and that I MUST fit a staircase
along with other alterations to the rest of the house (e.g., self
closers on all doors off the stairs). So, just having a loft ladder
instead of stairs doesn't excuse you from getting BR approval.

MBQ

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 15, 6:05 pm, Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost wrote:
On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 19:12:39 -0000, a particular chimpanzee named
"Jason Hallway" randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

Yes. I've rung up the council and they have told me that I can convert
it
for storage only by removng the staircase to it so that it is no longer
a
liability.

Is it as simple as that?

What structural alterations have they carried out? I have seen roofs
where purlin props, lateral restraint, etc have been removed, causing
the roof to be less stable than before the work commenced. Turning
the roof space back to storage wouldn't alleviate that kind of damage.

YMMV, but some Council's take the fixed stair vs. ladder as only one
indicator of whether it's habitable or not. Personally, I would
regard any boarding to the walls and floors, natural light, fixed
heat, light and/or power as more indicative of whether it's habitable
or not than the access to it.

I proposed most of the above changes to my loft as a home for a model
railway with access by a loft ladder. The BCO (Aylesbury Vale) was
adamant that it was a loft conversion and that I MUST fit a staircase
along with other alterations to the rest of the house (e.g., self
closers on all doors off the stairs). So, just having a loft ladder
instead of stairs doesn't excuse you from getting BR approval.

MBQ

It depends on the council doesn't it?

On Feb 19, 10:39 pm, "Jason Hallway" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...





On Feb 15, 6:05 pm, Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost wrote:
On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 19:12:39 -0000, a particular chimpanzee named
"Jason Hallway" randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

Yes. I've rung up the council and they have told me that I can convert
it
for storage only by removng the staircase to it so that it is no longer
a
liability.

Is it as simple as that?

What structural alterations have they carried out? I have seen roofs
where purlin props, lateral restraint, etc have been removed, causing
the roof to be less stable than before the work commenced. Turning
the roof space back to storage wouldn't alleviate that kind of damage.

YMMV, but some Council's take the fixed stair vs. ladder as only one
indicator of whether it's habitable or not. Personally, I would
regard any boarding to the walls and floors, natural light, fixed
heat, light and/or power as more indicative of whether it's habitable
or not than the access to it.

I proposed most of the above changes to my loft as a home for a model
railway with access by a loft ladder. The BCO (Aylesbury Vale) was
adamant that it was a loft conversion and that I MUST fit a staircase
along with other alterations to the rest of the house (e.g., self
closers on all doors off the stairs). So, just having a loft ladder
instead of stairs doesn't excuse you from getting BR approval.

MBQ

It depends on the council doesn't it

It might in practice but Building Regs are national so, no, it
shouldn't.

MBQ

On 20 Feb 2007 04:34:17 -0800, a particular chimpanzee named
" randomly hit the
keyboard and produced:

On Feb 19, 10:39 pm, "Jason Hallway" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

I proposed most of the above changes to my loft as a home for a model
railway with access by a loft ladder. The BCO (Aylesbury Vale) was
adamant that it was a loft conversion and that I MUST fit a staircase
along with other alterations to the rest of the house (e.g., self
closers on all doors off the stairs). So, just having a loft ladder
instead of stairs doesn't excuse you from getting BR approval.

It depends on the council doesn't it

It might in practice but Building Regs are national so, no, it
shouldn't.

It shouldn't, but because there's no definition in the Building Regs
as to what constitutes a habitable room, it's left to each Council to
interpret the rules in their own way.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"