After replacing nearly all light in the house with CFL's and replacing
the old fridge with a class A one I was expecting to see a difference
in the monthly cost of leccy, but no!!

I have used 1344 units in 76 days according to the latest bill, so a
whopping 17.6kw a day !! now this seems a lot to me, house is heated
by oil, cooking by electric, three meals a day cooked, one was through
the washing machine and one tumble dry a day.

any one else done any studies on similar ?

Staffbull wrote:
After replacing nearly all light in the house with CFL's and replacing
the old fridge with a class A one I was expecting to see a difference
in the monthly cost of leccy, but no!!

I have used 1344 units in 76 days according to the latest bill, so a
whopping 17.6kw a day !! now this seems a lot to me, house is heated
by oil, cooking by electric, three meals a day cooked, one was through
the washing machine and one tumble dry a day.

any one else done any studies on similar ?


18kW hours per day means you have an average consumption of 18/24 =
750W. If you have a couple of PCs left on 24 hours a day, that will
easily account for 200-300W. Add to that the fridge and a few lights,
and you can easily have a background consumption of say 400W. The rest
will come from your washing machine, dish washer, cooker and
(especially) tumble drier. Quite believable.


--
Grunff

On 3 Feb, 12:00, Grunff wrote:
Staffbull wrote:
After replacing nearly all light in the house with CFL's and replacing
the old fridge with a class A one I was expecting to see a difference
in the monthly cost of leccy, but no!!

I have used 1344 units in 76 days according to the latest bill, so a
whopping 17.6kw a day !! now this seems a lot to me, house is heated
by oil, cooking by electric, three meals a day cooked, one was through
the washing machine and one tumble dry a day.

any one else done any studies on similar ?

18kW hours per day means you have an average consumption of 18/24 =
750W. If you have a couple of PCs left on 24 hours a day, that will
easily account for 200-300W. Add to that the fridge and a few lights,
and you can easily have a background consumption of say 400W. The rest
will come from your washing machine, dish washer, cooker and
(especially) tumble drier. Quite believable.

--
Grunff

Couple of laptops on for 10 - 12 hours a day so you werent far off the
mark, but after about 11pm there's nothing on apart from the fridge
and freezer till 7am so there should be a BIG dip in demand there, I
still feel sommats not right ! complete long shot but have meters been
known to be out of calibration to an extent ?
I,ve ordered a plug in power meter to see whats drawing what, My
mother and father live up the road similar house and she has the
cooker on most of the day, with a monthly bill of £34 !! same company
(scottish power)

In article . com,
"Staffbull" writes:
Couple of laptops on for 10 - 12 hours a day so you werent far off the
mark, but after about 11pm there's nothing on apart from the fridge
and freezer till 7am so there should be a BIG dip in demand there, I
still feel sommats not right ! complete long shot but have meters been
known to be out of calibration to an extent ?
I,ve ordered a plug in power meter to see whats drawing what, My
mother and father live up the road similar house and she has the
cooker on most of the day, with a monthly bill of £34 !! same company
(scottish power)

Pick a couple of days, and take hourly meter readings, just to
see if you have a high background load, or if there's a large
load which comes on at a certain time. This might help narrow
down what's causing it. You could also try switching everything
off (not at the main switch, but at each appliance), and see if
the load drops to zero, or if there's something switched on
which you don't know about (e.g. the immersion heater).

I have a 2kW convector heater which is switched via X10. At
the end of the summer, I noticed it was on. I checked back
through my computer logs and saw the last X10 command I sent
it was an OFF, way back in February. Fortunately it was on a
thermostat, but even so, it had been coming on, probably during
the night, and eaten about £50 in electricity, comparing back
with previous years. I guess the X10 switch picked up a bit of
noise with caused it to come on (I've had this happen with X10
control of lighting during a power surge/dip). I have since
changed the computer programming to send a gratuitous X10 ON or
OFF command to it once a day to reinforce its intended state.

In another case, about 2 weeks after I moved in to a house, I
happened to notice the immersion heater was switched on in the
airing cupboard since the pervious people had moved out. Since
I was heating the cylinder with the boiler, this wasn't needed.
It didn't seem to burn up a noticable amount of energy though.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 03 Feb 2007 14:11:16 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article . com,
"Staffbull" writes:
Couple of laptops on for 10 - 12 hours a day so you werent far off the
mark, but after about 11pm there's nothing on apart from the fridge
and freezer till 7am so there should be a BIG dip in demand there, I
still feel sommats not right ! complete long shot but have meters been
known to be out of calibration to an extent ?
I,ve ordered a plug in power meter to see whats drawing what, My
mother and father live up the road similar house and she has the
cooker on most of the day, with a monthly bill of £34 !! same company
(scottish power)

Pick a couple of days, and take hourly meter readings, just to
see if you have a high background load, or if there's a large
load which comes on at a certain time. This might help narrow
down what's causing it. You could also try switching everything
off (not at the main switch, but at each appliance), and see if
the load drops to zero, or if there's something switched on
which you don't know about (e.g. the immersion heater).

I have a 2kW convector heater which is switched via X10. At
the end of the summer, I noticed it was on. I checked back
through my computer logs and saw the last X10 command I sent
it was an OFF, way back in February. Fortunately it was on a
thermostat, but even so, it had been coming on, probably during
the night, and eaten about £50 in electricity, comparing back
with previous years. I guess the X10 switch picked up a bit of
noise with caused it to come on (I've had this happen with X10
control of lighting during a power surge/dip). I have since
changed the computer programming to send a gratuitous X10 ON or
OFF command to it once a day to reinforce its intended state.

In another case, about 2 weeks after I moved in to a house, I
happened to notice the immersion heater was switched on in the
airing cupboard since the pervious people had moved out. Since
I was heating the cylinder with the boiler, this wasn't needed.
It didn't seem to burn up a noticable amount of energy though.

Can you provide a bit more info on your "X10 set-up" - sounds
interesting?

In article ,
mike writes:
On 03 Feb 2007 14:11:16 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

I have a 2kW convector heater which is switched via X10. At
the end of the summer, I noticed it was on. I checked back
through my computer logs and saw the last X10 command I sent
it was an OFF, way back in February. Fortunately it was on a
thermostat, but even so, it had been coming on, probably during
the night, and eaten about £50 in electricity, comparing back
with previous years. I guess the X10 switch picked up a bit of
noise with caused it to come on (I've had this happen with X10
control of lighting during a power surge/dip). I have since
changed the computer programming to send a gratuitous X10 ON or
OFF command to it once a day to reinforce its intended state.

Can you provide a bit more info on your "X10 set-up" - sounds
interesting?

I have a Comfort alarm system, which includes Home Automation
capability. I don't use much X10 as mostly it is all hardwired.
I use X10 just for the ability to control portable appliances,
and where I want HA control of dimmable lighting. The HA
programming is split between the alarm system (for the parts
which can usefully run on battery during a power cut) and a
PC (for the parts which are useless without a mains supply,
such as the heating).

The alarm system provides all the inputs and outputs for both
alarm and HA functions (currently got 40 inputs and 40 outputs
installed; nearly all the inputs are used, but lots of spare
outputs). The alarm also sends and receives X10 commands.
The PC is connected to the alarm, and via that, picks up all
inputs, outputs, and X10 data received/transmitted. The PC
interfaces to the room thermostats through a combination of a
1-wire bus around the house supporting several DS18S20 digital
thermometers, and D/A inputs to read the position of the
temperature set dials on the room stats (which are actually
potentiometers). Software in the PC decides what temperature
each heating zone should be (e.g. use temperature setting on
room dial, or a preprogrammed temperature for unoccupied house,
night time, or frost protection as appropriate). The PC also
provides for remote access and off-site logging. I usually
switch my heating on as I leave the office.

My boiler is a Keston C25. This has an electrical input to
call for heat, and two outputs, burner on, and lockout.
These are all connected to the alarm, and via that, to the
PC. If the boiler does lockout, the PC will switch over to
use the 2kW convector heater instead, which it does by telling
the alarm to send the appropriate X10 command to the heater
switch, which I was referring to in the article you followed
up. When I originally installed the Keston 5 years ago, I was
working for Sun Microsystems and spent periods working in the
US. I was concerned that it might lockout and the house freeze
in my absence. Actually, it never did lockout until a few months
ago (due to drooping ignition electrode, a common failure
in Kestons it seems). The alarm phoned me to tell me the
boiler was locked out, which the lockout input on the alarm
had been programmed to do. As it happened, I was at home at
the time, but if I was out, it would have been useful to know
this had happened. Looking back through the system logs, I
could see that for a week before it locked-out, it had been
having trouble lighting, often lighting and immediately going
out, before staying alight on the second or third attempt.
I could program the alarm to alert me if it starts doing
this again, to forewarn of impending failure.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Staffbull wrote:
On 3 Feb, 12:00, Grunff wrote:
Staffbull wrote:
After replacing nearly all light in the house with CFL's and replacing
the old fridge with a class A one I was expecting to see a difference
in the monthly cost of leccy, but no!!

I have used 1344 units in 76 days according to the latest bill, so a
whopping 17.6kw a day !! now this seems a lot to me, house is heated
by oil, cooking by electric, three meals a day cooked, one was through
the washing machine and one tumble dry a day.

any one else done any studies on similar ?

18kW hours per day means you have an average consumption of 18/24 =
750W. If you have a couple of PCs left on 24 hours a day, that will
easily account for 200-300W. Add to that the fridge and a few lights,
and you can easily have a background consumption of say 400W. The rest
will come from your washing machine, dish washer, cooker and
(especially) tumble drier. Quite believable.

Couple of laptops on for 10 - 12 hours a day so you werent far off the
mark, but after about 11pm there's nothing on apart from the fridge

Essentially no laptops will ever use 100W.
60W is about the most, when charging, or 30W when in use.
Mine uses around 10W, but isn't very large.

and freezer till 7am so there should be a BIG dip in demand there, I
still feel sommats not right ! complete long shot but have meters been
known to be out of calibration to an extent ?

Yes.

I,ve ordered a plug in power meter to see whats drawing what, My
mother and father live up the road similar house and she has the
cooker on most of the day, with a monthly bill of ?34 !! same company
(scottish power)

The plug in power meters of the electronic sort can be significantly out
on modern power supplies of over 30W or so.
As in 100% out.

This may or may not be the case whith the one you have - the
three I bought from seperate vendors all suffered this.
The reason is that they are built to a price, and were designed without
regard to 'power factor correction' - which now has to be built into
power supplies of over 30W in the EU.

Turn off _all_ loads you know about.
Now, see if the meter still turns.

Ian Stirling wrote:

The plug in power meters of the electronic sort can be significantly out
on modern power supplies of over 30W or so.
As in 100% out.

Some of these "kill-a-watt" type meters claim to *measure* power PF, is
this type still affected by PFC equipment? Any comments on the accuracy
of e.g. http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=38343

Andy Burns wrote:
Ian Stirling wrote:

The plug in power meters of the electronic sort can be significantly out
on modern power supplies of over 30W or so.
As in 100% out.

Some of these "kill-a-watt" type meters claim to *measure* power PF, is
this type still affected by PFC equipment? Any comments on the accuracy
of e.g. http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=38343


They measure power factor - this is fine and accurate for loads like
motors, fans, compressors.

The problem is that power supplies with power factor correction can draw
current in wierd spikes.

In one case I measured a very sharp rise-time pulse, like a sharks-fin.
The computer inside the meters is not fast enough to accurately read
this pulse, and makes bad assumptions.

I cannot comment on the maplin one - it might or might not work.
In any case, it'll likely be fine and accurate for most loads.

Just not some computers, and maybe large amps/hifi/electronics stuff.

Staffbull wrote:

Couple of laptops on for 10 - 12 hours a day so you werent far off the
mark

The laptops will be much lower than my estimate, less than 50W a piece.


--
Grunff
http://www.greendoug.com/ - a forum for all things environmental

On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 12:00:04 +0000, Grunff wrote:

Staffbull wrote:
After replacing nearly all light in the house with CFL's and replacing
the old fridge with a class A one I was expecting to see a difference
in the monthly cost of leccy, but no!!

I have used 1344 units in 76 days according to the latest bill, so a
whopping 17.6kw a day !! now this seems a lot to me, house is heated
by oil, cooking by electric, three meals a day cooked, one was through
the washing machine and one tumble dry a day.

any one else done any studies on similar ?


18kW hours per day means you have an average consumption of 18/24 =
750W. If you have a couple of PCs left on 24 hours a day, that will
easily account for 200-300W. Add to that the fridge and a few lights,
and you can easily have a background consumption of say 400W. The rest
will come from your washing machine, dish washer, cooker and
(especially) tumble drier. Quite believable.


I have used average of 17.9 units per day over the last year - and
that includes washing machine, dryer, dish washer all on Economy 7.
I have PC on most of time, TV, usual domestic appliances, fridge, etc
..
Most lights CFL.

Staffbull wrote:
After replacing nearly all light in the house with CFL's and replacing
the old fridge with a class A one I was expecting to see a difference
in the monthly cost of leccy, but no!!

I have used 1344 units in 76 days according to the latest bill, so a
whopping 17.6kw a day !! now this seems a lot to me, house is heated
by oil, cooking by electric, three meals a day cooked, one was through
the washing machine and one tumble dry a day.

any one else done any studies on similar ?

I've been through the same exercise. You just have to get your power
metre plugged in and start measuring. In my case, the biggest unexpected
use was the two amplifiers that usually got left on and used by 100W
when not doing anything. I also had a couple of inefficient pond pumps
which have now been replaced. Other than that, the usage was down to
lots of fairly small things all adding up to a fair bit.

Interestingly, despite the government hype, the large CRT TV on standby
was using 1W

--
Matt Helliwell
www.helliwell.me.uk

On Feb 3, 2:29 pm, Matt Helliwell wrote:
Staffbull wrote:
After replacing nearly all light in the house with CFL's and replacing
the old fridge with a class A one I was expecting to see a difference
in the monthly cost of leccy, but no!!

I have used 1344 units in 76 days according to the latest bill, so a
whopping 17.6kw a day !! now this seems a lot to me, house is heated
by oil, cooking by electric, three meals a day cooked, one was through
the washing machine and one tumble dry a day.

any one else done any studies on similar ?

I've been through the same exercise. You just have to get your power
metre plugged in and start measuring. In my case, the biggest unexpected
use was the two amplifiers that usually got left on and used by 100W
when not doing anything. I also had a couple of inefficient pond pumps
which have now been replaced. Other than that, the usage was down to
lots of fairly small things all adding up to a fair bit.

Interestingly, despite the government hype, the large CRT TV on standby
was using 1W

--
Matt Helliwellwww.helliwell.me.uk

..
Slightly different situation here; this is a 36 year old (two by four
wood framed) all electric house in eastern Canada. Any 'wasted' heat
therefore contributes, however slightly, to reducing electric heating
cost. This being a cool climate there is some heating most months of
the year; air conditioning of any type is rare (not needed) here.
Have not replaced light bulbs with CFLs due to high initial CFL cost
(e.g. around $2.50 Can, or approx one pound or more each) compared to
buying four regular incandescent cheapos for around 88 cents plus tax
= 25 cents (about 10-15 pence each). We replace about two packs (8
bulbs) besides any we break in the garage 'inspection light'.
Over the years we have installed four foot fluorescents (new fixture
about $25 = approx 12 to 15 quid?) in the kitchen and one other room
which tend to be on for long periods.
In the basement workshop have installed a long line of used
fluorescent which turned out to have 'electronic ballasts'. They are
on only while workshop is in use. With also occasionally use of a
bench saw, vertical drill press and and random use of an electronics
repair bench.
On the main floor, residentially, while each room has it's own
thermostat and individual heaters it is apparent that they come on
less in those rooms where there is otherwise 'wasted heat'. For
example:
In the bathroom a row of six 40 watt bulbs above the vanity mirror
competes with the 500 watt baseboard heater; in the kitchen the
somewhat old (approx 20 years) and inefficient fridge if it wastes
heat, reduces the on time of baseboard electric there. In this room
two computers, printers modems etc, running continuously means that
baseboard heat rarely comes on even now with minus 4 Celsius outside.
One real cause of waste is however the tumble drier which shoves damp
warm air outside. Being an old (i.e. much used) fairly capacious North
American model it only runs for about 45 mins twice week. Clothes are
washed in cold or 'mixed' water. Just a few washes per week in a 20+
year old 'automatic washer'. Electric hot water is also wasteful
especially if it goes directly down the drain; although shower and
bath water can be allowed to cool to room temp. before pulling the
drain plug.
A single 'long life' 50 watt incandescent bulb which is on, (at this
time of year) for some 15 hours per night resides over the front door/
step to meet insurance/liability requirements. the nearest street lamp
being across the street and down the road a bit.
Total consumption, billed and paid monthly, averaged over a year is
around 2000 kilowatt hours per month. Including sales tax and a
monthly account charge the cost is presently $214 Can per month
(approx 110 quid?).
That's three to four times M.Helliwell's 18 kwatt.hrs per day; for an
all electric house in a colder, longer winter and more windy climate.
Ultimately this house will require more insulation, dependent on good
ventilation but avoiding rot etc.
Anyway just for comparison chaps (and the ladies)!

On 2007-02-03 11:50:58 +0000, "Staffbull" said:

After replacing nearly all light in the house with CFL's and replacing
the old fridge with a class A one I was expecting to see a difference
in the monthly cost of leccy, but no!!

Well what a surprise!! Not.



I have used 1344 units in 76 days according to the latest bill, so a
whopping 17.6kw a day !! now this seems a lot to me, house is heated
by oil, cooking by electric, three meals a day cooked, one was through
the washing machine and one tumble dry a day.

any one else done any studies on similar ?


Yes, and came to the conclusion that it's a waste of time to fit CFLs
from the energy
saving perspective.

The only worthwhile application I can see for them is in outside lights
which may be difficult to take
apart to replace them and where the poor colour rendition doesn't
matter too much.

Andy Hall wrote:

The only worthwhile application I can see for them is in outside lights
which may be difficult to take
apart to replace them and where the poor colour rendition doesn't matter
too much.

I thought they didn't lead very long lives when out in the cold?

On 2007-02-03 20:16:27 +0000, Andy Burns said:

Andy Hall wrote:

The only worthwhile application I can see for them is in outside lights
which may be difficult to take
apart to replace them and where the poor colour rendition doesn't
matter too much.

I thought they didn't lead very long lives when out in the cold?

It seems that if you use a fairly good quality brand that lifetime
exceeds the more visually attractive tungsten lights.

Andy Hall wrote:

I thought they didn't lead very long lives when out in the cold?

It seems that if you use a fairly good quality brand that lifetime
exceeds the more visually attractive tungsten lights.

They are probably ok if switched on for long periods as well - that
ought to ensure they are operating at a decent temperature. For
frequently switched situations (like via a PIR) they would be hopeless.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Andy Burns wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:

The only worthwhile application I can see for them is in outside
lights which may be difficult to take
apart to replace them and where the poor colour rendition doesn't
matter too much.

I thought they didn't lead very long lives when out in the cold?

They soon get warm..

I am using em not to save the planet, but because I get sick of changing
bulbs, and they cost a bloody fortune.

CFLs pay for themselves very quickly. Cis they are as cheap as teh 5
bulbs that they will outlast and they use a fair bit less too.

In article ,
Andy Burns writes:
Andy Hall wrote:

The only worthwhile application I can see for them is in outside lights
which may be difficult to take
apart to replace them and where the poor colour rendition doesn't matter
too much.

I thought they didn't lead very long lives when out in the cold?

In so far as it makes any difference, they should last longer
because the control gear life will be extended, although that's
not the normal failure mode unless the lamps are running hot.

The main issue in the cold is they will take longer to warm up
and reach full light output. If exposed to cold wind, they may
never reach full output, and for this reason, the type with an
extra outer glass bulb should be used in this situation.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In message , Andy
Burns writes
Andy Hall wrote:

The only worthwhile application I can see for them is in outside
lights which may be difficult to take
apart to replace them and where the poor colour rendition doesn't
matter too much.

I thought they didn't lead very long lives when out in the cold?

A bit like meerkats then

... except that I've never tried plugging a meerkat into a light socket

--
geoff

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:08:03 UTC, raden wrote:

In message , Andy
Burns writes
Andy Hall wrote:

The only worthwhile application I can see for them is in outside
lights which may be difficult to take
apart to replace them and where the poor colour rendition doesn't
matter too much.

I thought they didn't lead very long lives when out in the cold?

A bit like meerkats then

been watching TV tonight?

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In message , Bob Eager
writes
On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:08:03 UTC, raden wrote:

In message , Andy
Burns writes
Andy Hall wrote:

The only worthwhile application I can see for them is in outside
lights which may be difficult to take
apart to replace them and where the poor colour rendition doesn't
matter too much.

I thought they didn't lead very long lives when out in the cold?

A bit like meerkats then

been watching TV tonight?

I had to wipe the tears away

poor l'il things

--
geoff

raden wrote:

.. except that I've never tried plugging a meerkat into a light socket


They glow, reaching full brightness quite a bit quicker than a CF.


--
Grunff
http://www.greendoug.com - a forum for all things environmental

On 3 Feb, 11:50, "Staffbull" wrote:
After replacing nearly all light in the house with CFL's and replacing
the old fridge with a class A one I was expecting to see a difference
in the monthly cost of leccy, but no!!

I have used 1344 units in 76 days according to the latest bill, so a
whopping 17.6kw a day !! now this seems a lot to me, house is heated
by oil, cooking by electric, three meals a day cooked, one was through
the washing machine and one tumble dry a day.

any one else done any studies on similar ?

Thanks for all the replies, I'll post back when i get the power meter,
and try switching everything off :-)

Staffbull wrote:

After replacing nearly all light in the house with CFL's and replacing
the old fridge with a class A one I was expecting to see a difference
in the monthly cost of leccy, but no!!

Can't think why... unless you spend too much time swallowing government
spin.

Unless you have no big users of electricity in the house (i.e. things
with heaters) then titting about with CFLs etc is going to make a very
marginal difference when viewed as a part of the whole house
consumption. A couple of days worth of savings from changing a 100W
incandecent to a 20W CFL adds up to under 30 mins worth of consumption
from any of the big appliances.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Staffbull wrote:
After replacing nearly all light in the house with CFL's and replacing
the old fridge with a class A one I was expecting to see a difference
in the monthly cost of leccy, but no!!

I have used 1344 units in 76 days according to the latest bill, so a
whopping 17.6kw a day !! now this seems a lot to me, house is heated
by oil, cooking by electric, three meals a day cooked, one was through
the washing machine and one tumble dry a day.

any one else done any studies on similar ?

Yeah..right. I can totally believe it. All this eco guff never ever
looks at the things that really matter..

and make a real difference.

Now is your chance..in the meter cupboard with a torch and set the
partner to start switching things off.

Let us know where its going..

On 3 Feb 2007 03:50:58 -0800 someone who may be "Staffbull"
wrote this:-

cooking by electric, three meals a day cooked, one was through
the washing machine and one tumble dry a day.

These will be the major factor in your consumption. Do the washing
machine and drier need to be on so often? If they are needed so
often could they be run overnight on an off-peak tariff? Could
things be dried in other ways? Could some cooking be done by slow
cooker? Do all meals need to be hot?

Energy saving bulbs will make a useful difference to consumption,
but only if their savings are not being swamped by other
consumption.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:
On 3 Feb 2007 03:50:58 -0800 someone who may be "Staffbull"
wrote this:-

cooking by electric, three meals a day cooked, one was through
the washing machine and one tumble dry a day.

These will be the major factor in your consumption. Do the washing
machine and drier need to be on so often? If they are needed so
often could they be run overnight on an off-peak tariff? Could
things be dried in other ways? Could some cooking be done by slow
cooker? Do all meals need to be hot?

Energy saving bulbs will make a useful difference to consumption,
but only if their savings are not being swamped by other
consumption.

Even if.

As a conservative estimate - they save me 1Kwh/day - and mean I don't
have to be as rigourous at switching off lights as I might otherwise.

Sure - this is only 40 quid or so a year, but why the hell should I not
take it?

Look at the tumble drier.
This is a huge load.
Especially the non-condensing ones.

It also wears the clothes a fair bit, and makes them last less long.

A drying rack in a spare (gas) heated room, with a small fan, and adequate
ventilation can really reduce bills.

On the cooking - turning stuff down, so it's just simmering instead of a
rolling boil cooks it just as fast.
Cooking stew and stuff in a pan in the oven can use less energy than if you
do it in a pan, plus, it's really hard to burn stuff.

Microwave can be useful this way on conventional oven mode.

The microwave is a relatively inefficiant way of cooking - 50% of the
input energy goes out the back, but it can be more efficient than an
open pan, as for some things you don't need extra water, and you're not
heating up a large pan/ring/... just the food.

A 3Kw kettle, with a flat element, that can safely boil 1/2 cup of
water is nice too, which saves a little energy, and gets you boiling
water faster when you press the button too.

Yes, these are small things (not the dryer)

Yes, most of them only save 5 quid each.

Put all the little things together, and you can be looking at 100 quid or so
a year, while generally just changing the way you do things, rather than
actually taking more time.

On 2007-02-04 11:28:36 +0000, David Hansen
said:

On 3 Feb 2007 03:50:58 -0800 someone who may be "Staffbull"
wrote this:-

cooking by electric, three meals a day cooked, one was through
the washing machine and one tumble dry a day.

These will be the major factor in your consumption. Do the washing
machine and drier need to be on so often?

You're suggesting going around in dirty clothes now?


If they are needed so
often could they be run overnight on an off-peak tariff? Could
things be dried in other ways?

Such as? In the winter when it's raining?

Could some cooking be done by slow
cooker? Do all meals need to be hot?

Alteration in lifestyle as well?

This energy saving god seems to demand a lot of worship.



Energy saving bulbs will make a useful difference to consumption,
but only if their savings are not being swamped by other
consumption.

Get away.....

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 18:31:40 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

These will be the major factor in your consumption. Do the washing
machine and drier need to be on so often?

You're suggesting going around in dirty clothes now?

Nice try. However, the answer is no. As others have indicated it may
be possible to run the washing machine less often but full rather
then partly full.

If they are needed so
often could they be run overnight on an off-peak tariff? Could
things be dried in other ways?

Such as? In the winter when it's raining?

There are plenty of clothes driers. Ranging from ones which stand on
the floor to ones that hang from the ceiling like
http://www.castinstyle.co.uk/product.php/285/2

Provided the clothes have been spun properly these are no great
difficulty to use.

Could some cooking be done by slow
cooker? Do all meals need to be hot?

Alteration in lifestyle as well?

A minor alteration, perhaps. Most people are able to accommodate
such changes, only a few whine that they want things as they were.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 2007-02-05 07:26:20 +0000, David Hansen
said:

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 18:31:40 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

These will be the major factor in your consumption. Do the washing
machine and drier need to be on so often?

You're suggesting going around in dirty clothes now?

Nice try. However, the answer is no. As others have indicated it may
be possible to run the washing machine less often but full rather
then partly full.

Possibly, but then one has to buy more clothes which implies energy consumption
in making and transporting them.


If they are needed so
often could they be run overnight on an off-peak tariff? Could
things be dried in other ways?

Such as? In the winter when it's raining?

There are plenty of clothes driers. Ranging from ones which stand on
the floor to ones that hang from the ceiling like
http://www.castinstyle.co.uk/product.php/285/2

Provided the clothes have been spun properly these are no great
difficulty to use.

Condensation?



Could some cooking be done by slow
cooker? Do all meals need to be hot?

Alteration in lifestyle as well?

A minor alteration, perhaps. Most people are able to accommodate
such changes, only a few whine that they want things as they were.

A matter of degree..... To make a worthwhile energy saving, one would
need to adopt
cold food and lightbulb cooking on a significant number of occasions.

Plus ca change, plus cest la meme chose

or perhaps in this case, the opposite - the more things stay the same,
the less they change
or no gain without pain.

On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 17:23:31 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

Possibly, but then one has to buy more clothes

Does one?

I suggest that most people have more than enough clothes that they
will not have to buy any more to use a washing machine properly.

Provided the clothes have been spun properly these are no great
difficulty to use.

Condensation?

Ventilation.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54