hi

im a pretty practical bloke, i can turn my hand to most things. so im
trying to master plastering as ive no money but have time on my hands!
(im renovating my house).

i started yesterday after purchasing a 'ragni' plastering trowel from
b&q. i also got a whisk and bucket. i had no trouble mixing the
plaster (thistle multi finish , b&q) and got it to the correct
constituency. it went on pretty easy, or so i thought! this morning
its dry, and theres of little ridges and little depressions in the
surface. i thought i had smoothed it off correctly but it seems not.

q) how can i remedy this? a layer of pva (dialuted 5:1) plus a further
skim?

q) how do i avoid this? what am i doing wrong? or is it just down to
learning how to use my trowel correctly? does the trowel need a
sharper edge on it? if so.. square? or beveled?

hope someone can help.... thanks in anticipation .

On 31 Jan 2007 00:38:08 -0800, "mushymanrob"
wrote:

hi

im a pretty practical bloke, i can turn my hand to most things. so im
trying to master plastering as ive no money but have time on my hands!
(im renovating my house).

i started yesterday after purchasing a 'ragni' plastering trowel from
b&q. i also got a whisk and bucket. i had no trouble mixing the
plaster (thistle multi finish , b&q) and got it to the correct
constituency. it went on pretty easy, or so i thought! this morning
its dry, and theres of little ridges and little depressions in the
surface. i thought i had smoothed it off correctly but it seems not.

q) how can i remedy this? a layer of pva (dialuted 5:1) plus a further
skim?

q) how do i avoid this? what am i doing wrong? or is it just down to
learning how to use my trowel correctly? does the trowel need a
sharper edge on it? if so.. square? or beveled?

hope someone can help.... thanks in anticipation .

Not with the immediate problem but what you would have found a help is
a "Plasterers Derby".

The Wickes one is a tenner and is a four foot length of aluminium with
handles on. You use it to go over walls to finish plaster off. It is
fairly easy to use.

q) how do i avoid this? what am i doing wrong? or is it just down to
learning how to use my trowel correctly? does the trowel need a
sharper edge on it? if so.. square? or beveled?

I spent months (or it seemed like months) plastering a 6 x 3ft section of
wall. I eventually got it relatively smooth, but not a patch on what a pro
plasterer could have done in 5 mins for about £40.

I hate to sound defeatist ('cause I'll give most stuff a bash!) but
plastering really is a black art and can drive relatively sane people to the
brink. If you really do have excessive time on your hands I would practice
on a 'spare' bit of wall first - plaster it, polish it, scrape it off before
it sets, repeat 5-10 times. But honestly, don't despair if it still looks
crap. Pro plasterers have in-built spirit levels and gyros to keep
everything flat, IMHO. :-)

Unless it's just bits of patching I always pay a plasterer now.

Andy

mushymanrob wrote:
hi

im a pretty practical bloke, i can turn my hand to most things. so im
trying to master plastering as ive no money but have time on my hands!
(im renovating my house).

i started yesterday after purchasing a 'ragni' plastering trowel from
b&q. i also got a whisk and bucket. i had no trouble mixing the
plaster (thistle multi finish , b&q) and got it to the correct
constituency. it went on pretty easy, or so i thought! this morning
its dry, and theres of little ridges and little depressions in the
surface. i thought i had smoothed it off correctly but it seems not.

q) how can i remedy this? a layer of pva (dialuted 5:1) plus a further
skim?

You can do that if you like, sure beats the hell out of sanding it all down.


q) how do i avoid this? what am i doing wrong? or is it just down to
learning how to use my trowel correctly? does the trowel need a
sharper edge on it? if so.. square? or beveled?

hope someone can help.... thanks in anticipation .

The ridges are there because you trowelled it up too soon, IE the plaster
hadn't set enough...plastering, like anything else is easy if you follow a
tried and tested method:
Get the wall ready first, don't start mixing until you have done this...PVA
over everything, except plasterboard, you can apply the skimming while this
is wet or dry....if the wal is p-board, get it scrimmed up all along the
joints and make sure no nail/screw heads are proud
1) mix
2) get a coat of plaster on the entire wall, don't bother about any marks,
lines or anything else, just make sure the entire surface is covered fairly
evenly (even as in the same thickness - don't have it a mm in one part and
half an inch thick elsewhere, unless this is unavoidable.)
3) have a brew, wash your trowel, bucket etc and clean the mixing bucket
4) 10 mins later, do another mix, half the size as the first mix.
5) apply this t-h-i-n-l-y over the now partially set first coat, you are
only really using the new mix to fill any hollows and you will see that it
is much smoother already than the first coat.
6) wait 10 more mins when you've finished the 2nd coat, then with a clean
trowel and clean water, splash a small amount of water on the upper left
section of wall and work your way L-R, then the same at the bottom. (the
handle side of the trowel should be kept clean at all times, if any bits of
plaster are visible when looking down at the blade, clean them off, have a
wet brush and bucket at all times when plastering).
7) repeat number 6

Some people attempt to do large walls in one coat, but it's false economy,
firstly, it saves them 75p worth of plaster, but they spend longer trying to
get a decent finish on it, and secondly, because they think they are saving
time by 'not doing it twice', instead they end up going over it a dozen
times trying to get it right, whereas with the method mentioned above, it
gets two coats, laid down once and finally polished, but there's less effort
goes into those 'four times over' than 'one coat and struggle for
hours'...the end result is a smooth finish suitable for painting, if the
walls are to be wallpapered and it's your own house, you can leave the final
polishing, but for the sake of an extra 30 mins easy work per wall, it's not
worth leaving.

Congrats on the Ragini BTW, excellent trowels...you can rub the sharp
corners off on a brick if they are giving you too much grief, just make sure
there are no 'burrs' on the face of the trowel side...they only need half a
dozen scrapes on each corner, just to take the sharpness out.

In article ,
EricP writes:
On 31 Jan 2007 00:38:08 -0800, "mushymanrob"
wrote:
i started yesterday after purchasing a 'ragni' plastering trowel from
b&q. i also got a whisk and bucket. i had no trouble mixing the
plaster (thistle multi finish , b&q) and got it to the correct
constituency. it went on pretty easy, or so i thought! this morning
its dry, and theres of little ridges and little depressions in the
surface. i thought i had smoothed it off correctly but it seems not.

q) how can i remedy this? a layer of pva (dialuted 5:1) plus a further
skim?

Yes, providing the wall is flat to within a
couple of mm (or less if you're a novice).

q) how do i avoid this? what am i doing wrong? or is it just down to
learning how to use my trowel correctly? does the trowel need a
sharper edge on it? if so.. square? or beveled?

hope someone can help.... thanks in anticipation .

Yes. Search this newsgroup on google. I and
others have posted how to plaster many times.
Also check instructions for breaking in a new
trowel, which is not initially easy to use.

Not with the immediate problem but what you would have found a help is
a "Plasterers Derby".

The Wickes one is a tenner and is a four foot length of aluminium with
handles on. You use it to go over walls to finish plaster off. It is
fairly easy to use.

No, it's for leveling the scratch (under) coat, not polishing
the finish coat. However, a straight edged piece of timber is
at least as good, and possibly better IME.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
EricP writes:
On 31 Jan 2007 00:38:08 -0800, "mushymanrob"
wrote:
i started yesterday after purchasing a 'ragni' plastering trowel from
b&q. i also got a whisk and bucket. i had no trouble mixing the
plaster (thistle multi finish , b&q) and got it to the correct
constituency. it went on pretty easy, or so i thought! this morning
its dry, and theres of little ridges and little depressions in the
surface. i thought i had smoothed it off correctly but it seems not.

q) how can i remedy this? a layer of pva (dialuted 5:1) plus a further
skim?

Yes, providing the wall is flat to within a
couple of mm (or less if you're a novice).

q) how do i avoid this? what am i doing wrong? or is it just down to
learning how to use my trowel correctly? does the trowel need a
sharper edge on it? if so.. square? or beveled?

hope someone can help.... thanks in anticipation .

Yes. Search this newsgroup on google. I and
others have posted how to plaster many times.
Also check instructions for breaking in a new
trowel, which is not initially easy to use.

Not with the immediate problem but what you would have found a help is
a "Plasterers Derby".

The Wickes one is a tenner and is a four foot length of aluminium with
handles on. You use it to go over walls to finish plaster off. It is
fairly easy to use.

No, it's for leveling the scratch (under) coat, not polishing
the finish coat. However, a straight edged piece of timber is
at least as good, and possibly better IME.


I had quite good results with a length of aluminium carpet edging. The
sharp edge makes it easy to shave the high spots.

On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 10:14:05 GMT, Stuart Noble
wrote:


I had quite good results with a length of aluminium carpet edging. The
sharp edge makes it easy to shave the high spots.

That's what I found with the derby. One rounded edge and one sharpish.
Worked like magic on the setting plaster, following advice given
elsewhere in here. )

On 31 Jan, 20:00, "Phil L" wrote:
mushymanrob wrote:
hi

im a pretty practical bloke, i can turn my hand to most things. so im
trying to master plastering as ive no money but have time on my hands!
(im renovating my house).

i started yesterday after purchasing a 'ragni' plastering trowel from
b&q. i also got a whisk and bucket. i had no trouble mixing the
plaster (thistle multi finish , b&q) and got it to the correct
constituency. it went on pretty easy, or so i thought! this morning
its dry, and theres of little ridges and little depressions in the
surface. i thought i had smoothed it off correctly but it seems not.

q) how can i remedy this? a layer of pva (dialuted 5:1) plus a further
skim?

You can do that if you like, sure beats the hell out of sanding it all down.



q) how do i avoid this? what am i doing wrong? or is it just down to
learning how to use my trowel correctly? does the trowel need a
sharper edge on it? if so.. square? or beveled?

hope someone can help.... thanks in anticipation .

The ridges are there because you trowelled it up too soon, IE the plaster
hadn't set enough...plastering, like anything else is easy if you follow a
tried and tested method:
Get the wall ready first, don't start mixing until you have done this...PVA
over everything, except plasterboard, you can apply the skimming while this
is wet or dry....if the wal is p-board, get it scrimmed up all along the
joints and make sure no nail/screw heads are proud
1) mix
2) get a coat of plaster on the entire wall, don't bother about any marks,
lines or anything else, just make sure the entire surface is covered fairly
evenly (even as in the same thickness - don't have it a mm in one part and
half an inch thick elsewhere, unless this is unavoidable.)

Of course, this, in my experience is the hard part. Polishing and
stuff is easy, but if you can't judge flatness
at this stage (or on any second coat - but I've never seen a pro doing
plasterboard skim in 2 coats), the later stages will not correct it.
You can only shove the plaster around later to correct a certain
amount of wobbliness. You can remove localised dips, scrapes etc
later, but if the initial flatness is not close enough, you have a
problem. And this is where I got stuck.

3) have a brew, wash your trowel, bucket etc and clean the mixing bucket
4) 10 mins later, do another mix, half the size as the first mix.
5) apply this t-h-i-n-l-y over the now partially set first coat, you are
only really using the new mix to fill any hollows and you will see that it
is much smoother already than the first coat.

Again, I find its the large scale lack of flatness that is the
problem. If a hollow is smaller than the trowel,
no problem. Any it's easy to push too much plaster away so that you
create undulations in the direction of
the trowel. You can to be able to "feel" flatness under your trowel.
And I have found no magic trick to help with this.

6) wait 10 more mins when you've finished the 2nd coat, then with a clean
trowel and clean water, splash a small amount of water on the upper left
section of wall and work your way L-R, then the same at the bottom. (the
handle side of the trowel should be kept clean at all times, if any bits of
plaster are visible when looking down at the blade, clean them off, have a
wet brush and bucket at all times when plastering).
7) repeat number 6

Some people attempt to do large walls in one coat, but it's false economy,
firstly, it saves them 75p worth of plaster, but they spend longer trying to
get a decent finish on it, and secondly, because they think they are saving
time by 'not doing it twice', instead they end up going over it a dozen
times trying to get it right, whereas with the method mentioned above, it
gets two coats, laid down once and finally polished, but there's less effort
goes into those 'four times over' than 'one coat and struggle for
hours'...the end result is a smooth finish suitable for painting, if the
walls are to be wallpapered and it's your own house, you can leave the final
polishing, but for the sake of an extra 30 mins easy work per wall, it's not
worth leaving.

I did an area of wall above a door and I used a thin batten to do the
initial application, then polished if off and it looked very good.
Because the inital flatness had been there.
One thing about 2 coats, if you apply the 1st with a general direction
of trowelling and the second on another (e.g. horizontalish, the
verticalish), this might help with the flatness. Maybe I'll try this
next time !
Simon.


Congrats on the Ragini BTW, excellent trowels...you can rub the sharp
corners off on a brick if they are giving you too much grief, just make sure
there are no 'burrs' on the face of the trowel side...they only need half a
dozen scrapes on each corner, just to take the sharpness out.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"sm_jamieson" wrote in message
ups.com...


Of course, this, in my experience is the hard part. Polishing and
stuff is easy, but if you can't judge flatness
at this stage (or on any second coat - but I've never seen a pro doing
plasterboard skim in 2 coats),

Getting a wall flat with just the one coat is the next skill level in
learning to plaster. If you get one of these

http://www.toolstation.com/search.html?searchstr=16887

and _very_ lightly drag the darby over the surface while the plaster is
still wet you can see the high/low spots.

"mushymanrob" wrote in message
oups.com...
hi

im a pretty practical bloke, i can turn my hand to most things. so im
trying to master plastering as ive no money but have time on my hands!
(im renovating my house).


Ridges are caused by he trowel scraping the plaster rather than smoothig it
out.

Your trowel is new,round off the corners a bit ie just take the points off
with a file.

"EricP" wrote in message

Not with the immediate problem but what you would have found a help is
a "Plasterers Derby".

The Wickes one is a tenner and is a four foot length of aluminium with
handles on. You use it to go over walls to finish plaster off. It is
fairly easy to use.


But that doesn't alleviate the ridges which is caused by the trowel scraping
the plaster ie the trowel is not getting swept across the plaster at the
right angle.

You can hear and feel this when it happens.

ps a derby is for levelling the plaster.

On 31 Jan, 20:00, "Phil L" wrote:
mushymanrob wrote:

hi

im a pretty practical bloke, i can turn my hand to most things. so im
trying to master plastering as ive no money but have time on my hands!
(im renovating my house).

i started yesterday after purchasing a 'ragni' plastering trowel from
b&q. i also got a whisk and bucket. i had no trouble mixing the
plaster (thistle multi finish , b&q) and got it to the correct
constituency. it went on pretty easy, or so i thought! this morning
its dry, and theres of little ridges and little depressions in the
surface. i thought i had smoothed it off correctly but it seems not.

q) how can i remedy this? a layer of pva (dialuted 5:1) plus a further
skim?

You can do that if you like, sure beats the hell out of sanding it all down.



q) how do i avoid this? what am i doing wrong? or is it just down to
learning how to use my trowel correctly? does the trowel need a
sharper edge on it? if so.. square? or beveled?

hope someone can help.... thanks in anticipation .

The ridges are there because you trowelled it up too soon, IE the plaster
hadn't set enough...plastering, like anything else is easy if you follow a
tried and tested method:
Get the wall ready first, don't start mixing until you have done this...PVA
over everything, except plasterboard, you can apply the skimming while this
is wet or dry....if the wal is p-board, get it scrimmed up all along the
joints and make sure no nail/screw heads are proud
1) mix
2) get a coat of plaster on the entire wall, don't bother about any marks,
lines or anything else, just make sure the entire surface is covered fairly
evenly (even as in the same thickness - don't have it a mm in one part and
half an inch thick elsewhere, unless this is unavoidable.)
3) have a brew, wash your trowel, bucket etc and clean the mixing bucket
4) 10 mins later, do another mix, half the size as the first mix.
5) apply this t-h-i-n-l-y over the now partially set first coat, you are
only really using the new mix to fill any hollows and you will see that it
is much smoother already than the first coat.
6) wait 10 more mins when you've finished the 2nd coat, then with a clean
trowel and clean water, splash a small amount of water on the upper left
section of wall and work your way L-R, then the same at the bottom. (the
handle side of the trowel should be kept clean at all times, if any bits of
plaster are visible when looking down at the blade, clean them off, have a
wet brush and bucket at all times when plastering).
7) repeat number 6

Some people attempt to do large walls in one coat, but it's false economy,
firstly, it saves them 75p worth of plaster, but they spend longer trying to
get a decent finish on it, and secondly, because they think they are saving
time by 'not doing it twice', instead they end up going over it a dozen
times trying to get it right, whereas with the method mentioned above, it
gets two coats, laid down once and finally polished, but there's less effort
goes into those 'four times over' than 'one coat and struggle for
hours'...the end result is a smooth finish suitable for painting, if the
walls are to be wallpapered and it's your own house, you can leave the final
polishing, but for the sake of an extra 30 mins easy work per wall, it's not
worth leaving.

Congrats on the Ragini BTW, excellent trowels...you can rub the sharp
corners off on a brick if they are giving you too much grief, just make sure
there are no 'burrs' on the face of the trowel side...they only need half a
dozen scrapes on each corner, just to take the sharpness out.


Phil do you mind if I or you repost this on the wiki?

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ecial:Allpages

For the OP, one other tip: if you use lime plaster you've got far more
time to work it to get it flat.


NT

wrote:

Phil do you mind if I or you repost this on the wiki?

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ecial:Allpages

For the OP, one other tip: if you use lime plaster you've got far more
time to work it to get it flat.


NT

Feel free to use it wherever you see fit.

sm_jamieson wrote:
On 31 Jan, 20:00, "Phil L" wrote:
2) get a coat of plaster on the entire wall, don't bother about any
marks,
lines or anything else, just make sure the entire surface is covered
fairly evenly (even as in the same thickness - don't have it a mm in
one part and
half an inch thick elsewhere, unless this is unavoidable.)

Of course, this, in my experience is the hard part. Polishing and
stuff is easy, but if you can't judge flatness
at this stage (or on any second coat - but I've never seen a pro doing
plasterboard skim in 2 coats), the later stages will not correct it.
You can only shove the plaster around later to correct a certain
amount of wobbliness. You can remove localised dips, scrapes etc
later, but if the initial flatness is not close enough, you have a
problem. And this is where I got stuck.

The first coat is primarily to fill any deep undulations...this is allowed
to partially set before the 2nd coat is applied - yes, some parts of it may
be 12mm thick while others are only 2-3mm, but the wall would have to be
seriously rough for this to be the case, thick artex for example.
PB doesn't always need 2 coats - most pros give it 2 coats because it's
easier to get a final finish, but if it's the only patch they're doing, they
may just do it in one - if they are doing a full house or a few rooms,
everything gets 2 coats because you have more time, IE you can first coat 2
walls, then with the next mix, second coat those and put 1st coat on a
third, then trowel up the first two and your next mix will second coat the
third and maybe get another wall first coated etc - in this scenario, doing
it in one isn't really an option because it goes off too quick and your
meterage is severely curtailed, inthat you can plaster one or two walls,
then you can't mix again until they are completely polished up.

3) have a brew, wash your trowel, bucket etc and clean the mixing
bucket 4) 10 mins later, do another mix, half the size as the first
mix. 5) apply this t-h-i-n-l-y over the now partially set first
coat, you are
only really using the new mix to fill any hollows and you will see
that it
is much smoother already than the first coat.

Again, I find its the large scale lack of flatness that is the
problem. If a hollow is smaller than the trowel,
no problem. Any it's easy to push too much plaster away so that you
create undulations in the direction of
the trowel. You can to be able to "feel" flatness under your trowel.
And I have found no magic trick to help with this.


I'm not following this? - are you mixing the plaster too stiff? - it should
have a pouring consistency....I can't think of anything in everyday life
that I could use as a comparison - certainly not as thick as ready mixed
polyfilla or tile adhesive, it should be able to drip....the only good
beginners tip I can give you on mixing is to have clean water to start with,
then sprinkle the powder in either by hand or by using a scoop...it will
disappear below the water surface until there is enough powder that no water
appears on the surface, then start mixing, either with a stick or a whisk

On 2 Feb, 18:53, "Phil L" wrote:
wrote:

Phil do you mind if I or you repost this on the wiki?

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ecial:Allpages

Feel free to use it wherever you see fit.

thank you


NT