From: "Bob Eager"
Subject: Non-stick frying pan. OFF TOPIC?
Date: 28 December 2006 12:16

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 11:42:37 UTC, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

I've seen some extremely dangerous older drivers,
who lack any kind of reasonable reaction times etc. They may not be
involved in so many accidents, but I've seen them *cause* plenty....then
go on their way, oblivious of the carnage.

I knew someone would say that. It always makes me yawn.

If you have to descend to insulting responses, you've lost the argument.
Even if it does make you yawn, it's true. I live on a road where I often
see such things happening.



It wasn't intended to be insulting but if the cap fits ...

OK, I'm open to persuasion, let's have some examples - supported by
evidence.

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:
From: "Bob Eager"
Subject: Non-stick frying pan. OFF TOPIC?
Date: 28 December 2006 12:16

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 11:42:37 UTC, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

I've seen some extremely dangerous older drivers,
who lack any kind of reasonable reaction times etc. They may not be
involved in so many accidents, but I've seen them *cause* plenty....then
go on their way, oblivious of the carnage.

OK, I'm open to persuasion, let's have some examples - supported by
evidence.

Don't know where this orphan thread came from but...

I have to say I'm with Bob on this. If you think about it, the majority
of people who are licensed to drive vehicles will eventually die of old
age, and of those, the majority will have given up driving at some point
beforehand due to infirmity or otherwise being incapable. And
basically, the way system works in this country, an individual has to
recognise that they are no longer up to driving and voluntarily
surrender their license - which is a huge deal for most people since it
means acknowledging that they are basically clapped out, and are losing
a fundamental part of their independence.

The reality is that individuals are slow to appreciate the decline of
their own faculties - others notice it far earlier. That means that for
the period leading up to the point they finally surrender their licence,
individuals are very likely to be 'well below par' in the ways Bob says.

Examples from my own experience? I can recall several instances of
being driven by elderly people who were beyond their driving years -
mother-in-law carving up a bicycle at a roundabout - God knows how she
missed him; totally unaware until I pointed it out. Then there was my
aunt, who I'm told only finally gave up driving after one incident when
she'd driven down her local village high street a little too close to
the row of parked cars, and managed to take out about half a dozen wing
mirrors: the first she knew of it was when the steady stream of knocking
started on her front door. And Granny-in-law, who apparently managed to
circumnavigate a roundabout the wrong way before being pulled by a
police car...

David

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 13:47:05 UTC, Lobster
wrote:

Examples from my own experience? I can recall several instances of
being driven by elderly people who were beyond their driving years -

My wife just reminded me of another, a few weeks ago. Again, a road
junction. Bus approaching up main road, not moving fast as it was
pulling away from a bus stop. Elderly driver came out of side junction
and collided with bus.

He was still maintaining that the bus driver was at fault. And there was
his car - embedded in the *side* of the bus, almost exactly halfway down
its length. Yes, he pulled out of the junction and failed to notice a
double decker bus!

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 13:47:05 UTC, Lobster
wrote:

Examples from my own experience? I can recall several instances of
being driven by elderly people who were beyond their driving years -

My wife just reminded me of another, a few weeks ago. Again, a road
junction. Bus approaching up main road, not moving fast as it was
pulling away from a bus stop. Elderly driver came out of side junction
and collided with bus.

He was still maintaining that the bus driver was at fault. And there was
his car - embedded in the *side* of the bus, almost exactly halfway down
its length. Yes, he pulled out of the junction and failed to notice a
double decker bus!

My mother ran into the back of a trailer, in broad daylight on a
straight street with at least 80 yards visibility.

She confessed to me that 'she forgot where the brake pedal was'

She is now in full time care, and can *just about* remember who I am.

She shrieked and raged at me for 'selling her car' ..up to three years
ago she was still convinced she was a safe driver.

The point at which we really understood what was happening was when I
was driving her through Newmarket, Suffolk, with a carful of the family

"What town is this?" she asked.

"Edinbrugh" I promptly replied...there was a dead silence.

"It's not like I imagined it would be" she said.

That was TWO YEARS BEFORE SHE STOPPED DRIVING. Well before she broke her
hip and was hospitalised and they wouldn't let her go home to live on
her own anymore. And we discovered the uneractive thyroid, and the
vascular dengeneration..and a house FULL of exactly the same things she
had bought, time and time again, because she forgot she had already got
them. As well as all the little items she had hidden...from The Person
Who Came into Her House and Hid Things..


She used to sound JUST like Mary..

The Natural Philosopher typed

That was TWO YEARS BEFORE SHE STOPPED DRIVING. Well before she broke her
hip and was hospitalised and they wouldn't let her go home to live on
her own anymore. And we discovered the uneractive thyroid, and the
vascular dengeneration..and a house FULL of exactly the same things she
had bought, time and time again, because she forgot she had already got
them. As well as all the little items she had hidden...from The Person
Who Came into Her House and Hid Things..

Thankfully, some people recognise mental impairment and act appropriately.

Having watched his mother's decline with Alzheimer's disease, Harold
Wilson stopped running the country immediately after his first memory
lapse...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 13:47:05 UTC, Lobster
wrote:

Examples from my own experience? I can recall several instances of
being driven by elderly people who were beyond their driving years -

My wife just reminded me of another, a few weeks ago. Again, a road
junction. Bus approaching up main road, not moving fast as it was
pulling away from a bus stop. Elderly driver came out of side junction
and collided with bus.

He was still maintaining that the bus driver was at fault. And there was
his car - embedded in the *side* of the bus, almost exactly halfway down
its length. Yes, he pulled out of the junction and failed to notice a
double decker bus!



It's a difficult problem.

I was involved in a nasty situation with an older driver a few years ago.
I was driving north on a major dual carriageway, in the right-hand lane,
overtaking another car. I was probably doing around 75, the other car
around 65. We were approaching a junction where a minor country road
joined from the left.

A car was coming down the country road, to join the dual cariageway. I saw
it approaching, and eased off the throttle so if he failed to stop at the
junction, I would have time to stop safely.

I saw him slow down, and come to a stop at the junction with the dual
carriageway evidently giving way, and so held my course and speed. I was
down to 65 or so by now, and the guy on my left was also.

It took us around 10 seconds to reach the junction, where the other driver
had stopped, and was apparently giving way.

When we were around 10 yards from the junction, the car pulled out right in
front of us, trying to make a right-turn across the dual carriageway. He
didn't pullout fast, in the manner of someone trying to make a quick crossig
in front of us. He pulled out slowly and ponderously. Both cars on the
D/C performed emergency braking. The offending vehicle had tootled across
far enough to clear the left-hand land, but not the right-hand lane, and I
hit him.

He got out of the car, and was around 90. He had only 1 eye, the one on the
relevant side missing. "Sorry, sonny. I didn't see you'. No ****.

However, esp. in rural areas like Aberdeenshire, cars are essential for
basic transport needs. There is no public transport infrastructure worth
talking about. So what's the answer? How do we let older folks retain
their mobility and independence?

I don't know what the answer is.

--
Ron

"Ron Lowe" ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote in message
...

It's a difficult problem.

I was involved in a nasty situation with an older driver a few years ago.
I was driving north on a major dual carriageway, in the right-hand lane,
overtaking another car. I was probably doing around 75, the other car
around 65. We were approaching a junction where a minor country road
joined from the left.

A car was coming down the country road, to join the dual cariageway. I
saw it approaching, and eased off the throttle so if he failed to stop at
the junction, I would have time to stop safely.

I saw him slow down, and come to a stop at the junction with the dual
carriageway evidently giving way, and so held my course and speed. I was
down to 65 or so by now, and the guy on my left was also.

It took us around 10 seconds to reach the junction, where the other driver
had stopped, and was apparently giving way.

When we were around 10 yards from the junction, the car pulled out right
in front of us, trying to make a right-turn across the dual carriageway.
He didn't pullout fast, in the manner of someone trying to make a quick
crossig in front of us. He pulled out slowly and ponderously. Both
cars on the D/C performed emergency braking. The offending vehicle had
tootled across far enough to clear the left-hand land, but not the
right-hand lane, and I hit him.

He got out of the car, and was around 90. He had only 1 eye, the one on
the relevant side missing. "Sorry, sonny. I didn't see you'. No ****.

However, esp. in rural areas like Aberdeenshire, cars are essential for
basic transport needs. There is no public transport infrastructure worth
talking about. So what's the answer? How do we let older folks retain
their mobility and independence?

I don't know what the answer is.

I had almost the same thing happen to me.
The only difference was that we avoided hitting the idiot cutting across.
He was about 25 and just carried on as though nothing had happened.

In article ,
Ron Lowe ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote:
However, esp. in rural areas like Aberdeenshire, cars are essential for
basic transport needs.

The NE of Scotland seems to have the most appalling record of serious road
accidents. And frequently drivers just running out of road with no other
involved. I must admit the A90 south of Aberdeen scares me somewhat - a
straight modern dual carriageway with many side turnings and crossings
with loads of farm traffic.

--
*What happens when none of your bees wax? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ron Lowe ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote:
However, esp. in rural areas like Aberdeenshire, cars are essential for
basic transport needs.

The NE of Scotland seems to have the most appalling record of serious road
accidents. And frequently drivers just running out of road with no other
involved. I must admit the A90 south of Aberdeen scares me somewhat - a
straight modern dual carriageway with many side turnings and crossings
with loads of farm traffic.



Yes, and most of the accidents are due to young inexperienced males in
over-powered cars doing crazy overtaking maneouvers, or simply over-cooking
it on the twisty roads. A huge percentage of the accidents are
single-vehicle-rolled-into-field, or versus a tree. Some of the worst roads
for the 'young loons' ( eg Aberdeen - Peterhead ) now have a lot of speed
cameras on them. Don't know how much effect they are having.

There is an element of frustration too, when you get a timid driver behind a
farm vehicle on a slightly twisty road. Sometimes, they will simply not
overtake. Ever. Even when they reach the one long straight, and it's clear
to do so. This causes massive tailbacks at 20mph, and sometimes people
attempt a multi-overtake maneouver when it's just not safe to do so.

The A90 is horrendous for the reasons you state. It's part of my daily
commute. They simply built it on the cheap, without proper intersections.
People have to attempt to make right-turns onto the dual carriageway across
fast-moving traffic, whth all the associated risks. They are only now
starting to address this, with several new flyover intersections between
Perth and Aberdeen.

--
Ron

Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 13:47:05 UTC, Lobster
wrote:

Examples from my own experience? I can recall several instances of
being driven by elderly people who were beyond their driving years -

My wife just reminded me of another, a few weeks ago. Again, a road
junction. Bus approaching up main road, not moving fast as it was
pulling away from a bus stop. Elderly driver came out of side junction
and collided with bus.

He was still maintaining that the bus driver was at fault. And there
was his car - embedded in the *side* of the bus, almost exactly
halfway down its length. Yes, he pulled out of the junction and
failed to notice a double decker bus!

I work from home & my office overlooks garages & the backs of the
opposite Courts (a quadrangle of terraced houses).

It was quite amusing at first watching peoples particular foibles when
it came to driving; parking, etc!

In particular there was was one gentleman in his 80's (probably of the
generation who never had to take a 'driving test'). It was quite amusing
to watch him, he was obviously myopic & could only find his garage by
aiming at specific "turning points", the problem was he was on foot at
the time! When eventually he did manage to extract his beloved vehicle &
access the 'main highway', he's an accident waiting to happen!

Unfortunately, the older we get.....eyesight detiorates...hand/eye
co-ordiation isn't as sharp as it should be & our reaction time
slows....but it takes a brave man (or woman) to admit it & hang up their
spurs!

Don.

Lobster wrote:
Mary Fisher wrote:
From: "Bob Eager"
Subject: Non-stick frying pan. OFF TOPIC?
Date: 28 December 2006 12:16

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 11:42:37 UTC, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

I've seen some extremely dangerous older drivers,
who lack any kind of reasonable reaction times etc. They may not be
involved in so many accidents, but I've seen them *cause*
plenty....then go on their way, oblivious of the carnage.

OK, I'm open to persuasion, let's have some examples - supported by
evidence.

Don't know where this orphan thread came from but...

I have to say I'm with Bob on this. If you think about it, the
majority of people who are licensed to drive vehicles will eventually
die of old age, and of those, the majority will have given up driving
at some point beforehand due to infirmity or otherwise being
incapable. And basically, the way system works in this country, an
individual has to recognise that they are no longer up to driving and
voluntarily surrender their license - which is a huge deal for most
people since it means acknowledging that they are basically clapped
out, and are losing a fundamental part of their independence.

The reality is that individuals are slow to appreciate the decline of
their own faculties - others notice it far earlier. That means that
for the period leading up to the point they finally surrender their
licence, individuals are very likely to be 'well below par' in the
ways Bob says.
Examples from my own experience? I can recall several instances of
being driven by elderly people who were beyond their driving years -
mother-in-law carving up a bicycle at a roundabout - God knows how she
missed him; totally unaware until I pointed it out. Then there was my
aunt, who I'm told only finally gave up driving after one incident
when she'd driven down her local village high street a little too
close to the row of parked cars, and managed to take out about half a
dozen wing mirrors: the first she knew of it was when the steady
stream of knocking started on her front door. And Granny-in-law, who
apparently managed to circumnavigate a roundabout the wrong way
before being pulled by a police car...

David

David,

Having read the above, it's also highly likely that you could be talking
about the newly qualified, young drivers, the ubiquitous 'white-van man',
the ever-present 25ish rep with a mobile 'phone glued to his/her ear whilst
driving along and trying to read a map/instructions/the latest sales
figures, the 40ish local bus driver that I saw reading a magazine between
stops whilst carrying a load of passengers, the 30ish something lady taking
the kids to school and looking back and yelling at them in the back seat
(and nearly wiping out a school crossing patrol in the process).

I could carry on for the next half hour or so writing out a very long list
of what the 'younger/middle aged and older generation' do when they are
distracted by other - and to them, more important things than actually
driving around in a ton of metal (and I've seen all these instances [and
done some of them] whilst driving some 35,000 miles a year) - in other
words, it could be any driver of any age doing any number of silly things on
any day of the year!

Remember -- There but for fortune go YOU or I.

Brian G

The message
from "Brian G" contains these words:

Having read the above, it's also highly likely that you could be talking
about the newly qualified, young drivers, the ubiquitous 'white-van man',
the ever-present 25ish rep with a mobile 'phone glued to his/her ear whilst
driving along and trying to read a map/instructions/the latest sales
figures, the 40ish local bus driver that I saw reading a magazine between
stops whilst carrying a load of passengers, the 30ish something lady taking
the kids to school and looking back and yelling at them in the back seat
(and nearly wiping out a school crossing patrol in the process).

I could carry on for the next half hour or so writing out a very long list
of what the 'younger/middle aged and older generation' do when they are
distracted by other - and to them, more important things than actually
driving around in a ton of metal (and I've seen all these instances [and
done some of them] whilst driving some 35,000 miles a year) - in other
words, it could be any driver of any age doing any number of silly
things on
any day of the year!

You may well be right but there is an essential difference between the
old fogey with delayed action reactions and the younger driver and that
is the younger one is almost always capable of better driving should he
or she put their mind to it while the old fogey is beyond hope,
incapable of coping with the normal hazards of driving let alone any
emergency.

Remember -- There but for fortune go YOU or I.

We all make mistakes from time to time. The trick to surviving is to
drive with sufficient verve to keep concentrating on the job in hand but
with sufficient margin to cope both with your own shortcomings and those
of the other drivers.

I hope I have sufficient strength of mind to keep to my often stated
resolution to give up driving when I find 70 mph too fast for comfort
under any circumstances.

--
Roger Chapman

roger wrote:
The message
from "Brian G" contains these words:

Having read the above, it's also highly likely that you could be
talking about the newly qualified, young drivers, the ubiquitous
'white-van man', the ever-present 25ish rep with a mobile 'phone
glued to his/her ear whilst driving along and trying to read a
map/instructions/the latest sales figures, the 40ish local bus
driver that I saw reading a magazine between stops whilst carrying a
load of passengers, the 30ish something lady taking the kids to
school and looking back and yelling at them in the back seat (and
nearly wiping out a school crossing patrol in the process).

I could carry on for the next half hour or so writing out a very
long list of what the 'younger/middle aged and older generation' do
when they are distracted by other - and to them, more important
things than actually driving around in a ton of metal (and I've seen
all these instances [and done some of them] whilst driving some
35,000 miles a year) - in other words, it could be any driver of any
age doing any number of silly
things on
any day of the year!

You may well be right but there is an essential difference between the
old fogey with delayed action reactions and the younger driver and
that is the younger one is almost always capable of better driving
should he or she put their mind to it while the old fogey is beyond
hope, incapable of coping with the normal hazards of driving let
alone any emergency.

I will certainly disagree with the above statement, I have seen some
atrocious driving by the younger generation who seem to think that they are
immortal - and very often create the "hazards" because they just need to get
that one car in front - and they only get out of a dangerous sitution that
they have caused by the skill and experience of the older driver in front
who just happens to be keeping to the legal speed limit and very aware of
what's going on around him/her - and believe it or not, because of this,
their 'reactions' to a given situation are usually far better.

As a matter of interest, the most common situation that I see around where I
live, is young drivers 'racing' each other on fairly narrow roads and then
attempting to overtake a line of traffic - or each other - when approaching
bends or blind corners and then when oncomings vehicle 'suddenly appear,
it's the older and more experienced drivers who have 'read the situation
correctly'to have to brake and 'let the idiots in' to avoid carnage.

Remember -- There but for fortune go YOU or I.

We all make mistakes from time to time. The trick to surviving is to
drive with sufficient verve to keep concentrating on the job in hand
but with sufficient margin to cope both with your own shortcomings
and those of the other drivers.

I quite agree with you, but very often when that 'old-fogey' in front is
concentrating on the job in hand, the impatient youngster behind (who is
often listening to his/her boom box that's shaking their car apart, talking
to their mates, touching up the girl/boyfriend and/or texting on the mobile
at the same time) thinks that this doddery old fool is just holding them up
for the sheer hell of it and *MUST* be overtaken whatever the speed limit
road and/or weather conditions.

At the end of the day, there comes a time when most drivers have to call it
a day and yes, a minority of older drivers are a danger. But, this also
applies to some of the younger, less experienced drivers who - on passing
their albeit very brief driving test - seem to think that they are the best
drivers in the world, consider themselves to be immortal and all-knowing but
are so dangerous they should be immediately banned.

It's also interesting to see who the insurance companies see as the greater
risk - the young or old driver.


Brian G

Brian G wrote:

I will certainly disagree with the above statement, I have seen some
atrocious driving by the younger generation who seem to think that they are
immortal

No argument that many younger drivers are appalling and should be
banned, shat upon by the full force of the law etc etc. One can but
hope that in the absence of lifetime driving bans, that with time they
will eventually metamorphose into decent drivers - TBH probably most of
them do.

The fundamental difference with the elderly drivers we're talking about
in this thread is that these folk are at the very end of their driving
careers, and their faculties are deteriorating: whatever happens, they
are getting worse, not better.

At the end of the day, there comes a time when most drivers have to call it
a day and yes, a minority of older drivers are a danger.

Let's be clear - we're not just talking about "older drivers" here,
we're talking about very old, infirm drivers who can no longer see
properly, can't turn their heads to look behind, can't react quickly
enough in an emergency, are in the early stages of dementia etc etc.

My point originally was that almost all drivers leave it too late before
they quit - they don't appreciate that they no longer have the ability
they used to. I can see this in my own father, still driving at 80:
he's just about OK still, but despite hints being dropped by my mother
and the rest of us, he refuses to consider the idea that he should give
up. But really, now is the time he should do so, *before* he becomes a
real danger. It won't be long before we have to push it harder, and
that's going to be tough.

It's also interesting to see who the insurance companies see as the
greater
risk - the young or old driver.

I suspect the reason that it's youngsters is because they are typically
responsible for the high speed, reckless stuff which creates massive
personal injury claims, and that's what costs the insurance companies.
That, and the fact that as has been mentioned, elderly folk have a habit
of leaving a trail of havoc in the wake without even being aware of it,
let alone featuring on an insurance claim form.

David

The message
from "Brian G" contains these words:

You may well be right but there is an essential difference between the
old fogey with delayed action reactions and the younger driver and
that is the younger one is almost always capable of better driving
should he or she put their mind to it while the old fogey is beyond
hope, incapable of coping with the normal hazards of driving let
alone any emergency.

I will certainly disagree with the above statement, I have seen some
atrocious driving by the younger generation who seem to think that they are
immortal - and very often create the "hazards" because they just need
to get
that one car in front - and they only get out of a dangerous sitution that
they have caused by the skill and experience of the older driver in front
who just happens to be keeping to the legal speed limit and very aware of
what's going on around him/her - and believe it or not, because of this,
their 'reactions' to a given situation are usually far better.

No doubt we have all seen atrocious driving from all age groups but I am
by no means clear why you disagree with my statement. Is it because you
do not accept that drivers with reaction times 10 or more times slower
than the fastest are sufficiently in control to be safe or because you
think that today's young are incapable of driving in a safer manner
should they be sufficiently incentivised to do so?

FWIW the sort of driver I had in mind would be incapable of getting
anywhere near the national speed limits. A good example was the old man
featured on TV not so long ago still driving the A35 he had had since he
started driving as a youth now having difficulty keeping within lane
markings even at 20 mph. He should have given up driving before he had
trouble keeping within lanes at 70.

As a matter of interest, the most common situation that I see around
where I
live, is young drivers 'racing' each other on fairly narrow roads and then
attempting to overtake a line of traffic - or each other - when approaching
bends or blind corners and then when oncomings vehicle 'suddenly appear,
it's the older and more experienced drivers who have 'read the situation
correctly'to have to brake and 'let the idiots in' to avoid carnage.

Hmm. I reckon that if you overtake on a single carriageway road you have
at least a 50/50 chance that the overtakee will try and shut the door on
you regardless of what is coming the other way. Having learnt to drive
when dual carriageways were rare and motorways almost nonexistent I
still overtake when I can on single carriageways so I tend to see the
bad side of a lot of slower drivers. They may respect the faster speed
limits (but rarely reach then) but the rest of the Highway Code is a
closed book to them.

Remember -- There but for fortune go YOU or I.

We all make mistakes from time to time. The trick to surviving is to
drive with sufficient verve to keep concentrating on the job in hand
but with sufficient margin to cope both with your own shortcomings
and those of the other drivers.

I quite agree with you, but very often when that 'old-fogey' in front is
concentrating on the job in hand, the impatient youngster behind (who is
often listening to his/her boom box that's shaking their car apart, talking
to their mates, touching up the girl/boyfriend and/or texting on the mobile
at the same time) thinks that this doddery old fool is just holding
them up
for the sheer hell of it and *MUST* be overtaken whatever the speed limit
road and/or weather conditions.

Doesn't really matter how hard the old fogey is concentrating if his
best is just not good enough.

At the end of the day, there comes a time when most drivers have to call it
a day and yes, a minority of older drivers are a danger. But, this also
applies to some of the younger, less experienced drivers who - on passing
their albeit very brief driving test - seem to think that they are the best
drivers in the world, consider themselves to be immortal and
all-knowing but
are so dangerous they should be immediately banned.

We were all young once and had to go through the learning process.
Driving too fast too soon is something that afflicts most male drivers,
even those not so young. It even effected my father who didn't learn to
drive until he was in his 50s.

It's also interesting to see who the insurance companies see as the greater
risk - the young or old driver.

Most really reckless drivers don't live long enough to become old.

--
Roger Chapman

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 12:50:09 UTC, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

I knew someone would say that. It always makes me yawn.

If you have to descend to insulting responses, you've lost the argument.
Even if it does make you yawn, it's true. I live on a road where I often
see such things happening.

It wasn't intended to be insulting but if the cap fits ...

Another sideways insult.

OK, I'm open to persuasion, let's have some examples - supported by
evidence.

What do you want, photographs? Sorry, I usually see these when I'm
driving.

Last week I was waiting to enter our road from a side turning. There is
a road opposite (it's almost a crossroads, but the other road is
angled).

An elderly driver was in his car, in the opposite road. A car was
approaching on the main road from one side, and a van was approaching
from the other (on the side of the main road nearest said elderly
driver). Naturally I was waiting for both vehicles on the main road to
pass before even thinking of pulling out.

Neither vehicle on the main road was travelling fast. When the van was
within a few metres of the junction, I saw the elderly driver look
towards the van, and immediately pull out in front of it. He had either
(a) misjudged its speed *very* badly (b) decided he had right of way (he
didn't, due to the nature of the junction or (c) not seen the van at
all. I would suspect (c). The van braked very hard and stopped *just* in
time; he couldn't swerve because of the car coming the other way. If he
had swerved, the car would have hit mine (still in the mouth of the
turning).

I emphasise that neither of the other moving vehicles was travelling at
an unreasonable speed; they were enitled to believe that, given no
visual obstacles, neither I nor the elderly driver would pull out in
front of them.

When all had screeched to a standstill, the elderly driver raised his
hand in in thanks to the van driver for 'stopping', and toddled off up
the road at about 10 mph. Oblivious.

That's just the most recent incident.
--
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"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 12:50:09 UTC, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

I knew someone would say that. It always makes me yawn.

If you have to descend to insulting responses, you've lost the argument.
Even if it does make you yawn, it's true. I live on a road where I often
see such things happening.

It wasn't intended to be insulting but if the cap fits ...

Another sideways insult.

If you're so paranoid that you're determined to see insults where they're
not meant there's no point in my wasting energy.

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 14:00:37 UTC, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

It wasn't intended to be insulting but if the cap fits ...

Another sideways insult.

If you're so paranoid that you're determined to see insults where they're
not meant there's no point in my wasting energy.

Or you didn't want to read/acknowledge the account of a real
near-accident.

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http://www.diybanter.com

Bob Eager wrote:

Last week I was waiting to enter our road from a side turning. There is
a road opposite (it's almost a crossroads, but the other road is
angled).

An elderly driver was in his car, in the opposite road. A car was
approaching on the main road from one side, and a van was approaching
from the other (on the side of the main road nearest said elderly
driver). Naturally I was waiting for both vehicles on the main road to
pass before even thinking of pulling out.

Neither vehicle on the main road was travelling fast. When the van was
within a few metres of the junction, I saw the elderly driver look
towards the van, and immediately pull out in front of it. He had either
(a) misjudged its speed *very* badly (b) decided he had right of way (he
didn't, due to the nature of the junction or (c) not seen the van at
all. I would suspect (c). The van braked very hard and stopped *just* in
time; he couldn't swerve because of the car coming the other way. If he
had swerved, the car would have hit mine (still in the mouth of the
turning).

I emphasise that neither of the other moving vehicles was travelling at
an unreasonable speed; they were enitled to believe that, given no
visual obstacles, neither I nor the elderly driver would pull out in
front of them.

These junction incidents where a person looks but somehow failed to see
the normally obvious approaching vehicle are quite commno in all age
brackets.

When all had screeched to a standstill, the elderly driver raised his
hand in in thanks to the van driver for 'stopping', and toddled off up
the road at about 10 mph. Oblivious.

A fairly good way to avoid attack I'd say, and avoiding making it any
more embarrassing than already is.

Really you can justify anything if you cant think straight.


http://www.diybanter.com

ohh


NT

wrote in message
ups.com...

These junction incidents where a person looks but somehow failed to see
the normally obvious approaching vehicle are quite commno in all age
brackets.


I can hold my hands up to that. After 15 years of driving, with an average
of 30000 miles a year, I had only had one accident, a small rear end shunt
when someone (age and sex unimportant) ran into the back of me at some red
lights. That all changed when I messed up at a junction that I know well,
wrote two cars off and hospitalised the other driver. I never saw him.

Adam

PS I did not have an airbag but I did have those seatbelt "retractors". The
other driver did have an airbag. I only suffered a small bruise to the
shoulder.

Mary Fisher wrote:

OK, I'm open to persuasion, let's have some examples - supported by
evidence.

After a few decades of scaring my parents when I drove them anywhere,
my Dad's driving now scares me. He drives slower than I cycle and his
reaction times and general observation are at a level that wouldn't get
you through a driving test. That's for someone who spent his whole
working life as a driver and has an excellent safety record so far.

Andy Dingley wrote:
Mary Fisher wrote:

OK, I'm open to persuasion, let's have some examples - supported by
evidence.

After a few decades of scaring my parents when I drove them anywhere,
my Dad's driving now scares me. He drives slower than I cycle and his
reaction times and general observation are at a level that wouldn't get
you through a driving test. That's for someone who spent his whole
working life as a driver and has an excellent safety record so far.


Old age is like alcohol. The more you have of it the better you think
you are and the worse you are actually getting.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
Mary Fisher wrote:

OK, I'm open to persuasion, let's have some examples - supported by
evidence.

After a few decades of scaring my parents when I drove them anywhere,
my Dad's driving now scares me. He drives slower than I cycle and his
reaction times and general observation are at a level that wouldn't get
you through a driving test. That's for someone who spent his whole
working life as a driver and has an excellent safety record so far.

Old age is like alcohol. The more you have of it the better you think
you are and the worse you are actually getting.

Young age is like that too!


NT