After receiving an astronomical quote from a 'plumber', we decided to
install our own new water mains as it was the only way to correct the
problem of very poor water pressure (shared water mains with our
neighbour). Anglian Water have now seen us the price for them to
connect their bit (£433) and I have ordered the mdpe pipe (the length
is 30 odd meters). We are located near Towcester.

The trench has been dug to 750cm (the garden is looking like something
from the first world war..) and the 100 year old steel pipe is now
accessible.

My problem is how to connect the mdpe to the steel pipe? I am hoping
there is an easier alternative that to, cut the pipe, cut a new thread
and then make the connection.

The reason I can't just dispense with the steel altogether is that it
enters the house and in embedded in a concrete floor. I have no desire
to rip it all up. I'd rather just make the connection, outside the back
door where the pipe enters the house.

Is there an easier way? I haven't used a tap / die set since I was 14
years old (over 25 years ago at school), so I am not keen to practise
now...

wrote in message
oups.com...

The trench has been dug to 750cm

I presume you mean 750mm? A trench at 7.5 metres deep must have taken some
digging!!

Cheers

John

on 16/12/2006, John supposed :
I presume you mean 750mm? A trench at 7.5 metres deep must have taken some
digging!!

He did say his garden was a mess :-)

I would not reuse any of the old pipe...

Get an SDS drill and it will go through the concrete like butter. If
necessary you might be able to bring the new pipe in at a slightly
better location to do the work, than the steel pipes present entry.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

wrote in message
oups.com...

My problem is how to connect the mdpe to the steel pipe? I am hoping
there is an easier alternative that to, cut the pipe, cut a new thread
and then make the connection.


Check out the technical help here, doubt there is any need to do thread
cutting but I'd be surprised if you can avoid cutting the pipe.....

http://www.philmac.co.uk/


The reason I can't just dispense with the steel altogether is that it
enters the house and in embedded in a concrete floor. I have no desire
to rip it all up. I'd rather just make the connection, outside the back
door where the pipe enters the house.

I'm with others who recommend trying to take the MDPE into the house.
Breaking through the concrete floor is fairly trivial, getting under or
through the foundations may be a bit harder. Extend your trench as far as
possible and see what is revealled. Incidently how did your plumber
propose to do the job?

Jim A

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
...
on 16/12/2006, John supposed :
I presume you mean 750mm? A trench at 7.5 metres deep must have taken
some digging!!

He did say his garden was a mess :-)

750mm is hard enough.

I would not reuse any of the old pipe...

Nor would I

Get an SDS drill and it will go through the concrete like butter. If
necessary you might be able to bring the new pipe in at a slightly better
location to do the work, than the steel pipes present entry.

I totally destroyed a Makita HR3000C trying to do this. In the end I smashed
up a small section of my concrete floor and then made good for a few pounds.

Adam

ARWadsworth wrote:

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
...
on 16/12/2006, John supposed :
I presume you mean 750mm? A trench at 7.5 metres deep must have
taken some digging!!

He did say his garden was a mess :-)

750mm is hard enough.

I would not reuse any of the old pipe...

Nor would I

Get an SDS drill and it will go through the concrete like butter. If
necessary you might be able to bring the new pipe in at a slightly
better location to do the work, than the steel pipes present entry.

I totally destroyed a Makita HR3000C trying to do this. In the end I
smashed up a small section of my concrete floor and then made good for a
few pounds.

Adam

I cut through a 200cm thick concrete slab with a rotary slab cutter -
hired it. Then you can use a pick on the rest..

That was laying an incoming electricity cable..

On 16 Dec 2006 03:49:53 -0800, wrote:

After receiving an astronomical quote from a 'plumber', we decided to
install our own new water mains

I cant help with your problem but out of interest how much was your
quote? I shall be getting a new water main too though I'm thinking of
finding a 'man with a moler' rather than dig up my lawn

Anna
--
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repair and conservation
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

Yes, the trench is 750mm! deep, it was difficult enough to get to that
depth!

Much as I might like to dispense with all the steel pipe, if I choose
to replace it all I would have to rip up the hardwood flooring,
excavate 1.5m of concrete slab, then connect the pipe up to the copper
pipe in a false wall (which is currently unmolested). I really don't
want the aggravation! I can live with 2m of steel and none of the
aggro!

The original plumber seemed also keen not to make life difficult, he
intended to connect to the pipe as it left the house.

So, given that I have to (for simplicity's sake) connect to the steel
pipe (and www.philmac.co.uk doesn't seem to be working), any other
suggestions?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
...
on 16/12/2006, John supposed :
I presume you mean 750mm? A trench at 7.5 metres deep must have
taken some digging!!

He did say his garden was a mess :-)

750mm is hard enough.

I would not reuse any of the old pipe...

Nor would I

Get an SDS drill and it will go through the concrete like butter. If
necessary you might be able to bring the new pipe in at a slightly
better location to do the work, than the steel pipes present entry.

I totally destroyed a Makita HR3000C trying to do this. In the end I
smashed up a small section of my concrete floor and then made good for a
few pounds.

Adam

I cut through a 200cm thick concrete slab with a rotary slab cutter -
hired it. Then you can use a pick on the rest..

That was laying an incoming electricity cable..

wrote in message
ups.com...
So, given that I have to (for simplicity's sake) connect to the steel
pipe (and www.philmac.co.uk doesn't seem to be working), any other
suggestions?


Oh well it was working when I posted. Try www.talbot.co.uk


Jim A

The plumber (who is approved by Anglian Water) sent me a quote for just
under £4000. I thought this a tad high.

The cost so far to do it my self has been

£180 - To take out my extended family for a meal to pay for the trench
day (32 meters of 750mm deep trench)
£45 Two lots of 50m*25mm mdpe blue piping (as we are doing next doors
pipe as well because we are nice!)
£433 To Anglian Water to pay for the connection.
Approx £20 for sundry items

Total cost £678.

I suspect I will buy 30m of larger diam tube to protect the water pipes
in the trench. I suspect this should be no more than £40.

We did consider moling but couldn't find a suitable person to do it. It
may well have been cheaper/easier?




Anna Kettle wrote:
On 16 Dec 2006 03:49:53 -0800, wrote:

After receiving an astronomical quote from a 'plumber', we decided to
install our own new water mains

I cant help with your problem but out of interest how much was your
quote? I shall be getting a new water main too though I'm thinking of
finding a 'man with a moler' rather than dig up my lawn

Anna
--
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repair and conservation
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 07:52:29 -0800, David.Rignall wrote:

Yes, the trench is 750mm! deep, it was difficult enough to get to that
depth!

Much as I might like to dispense with all the steel pipe, if I choose to
replace it all I would have to rip up the hardwood flooring, excavate 1.5m
of concrete slab, then connect the pipe up to the copper pipe in a false
wall (which is currently unmolested). I really don't want the aggravation!
I can live with 2m of steel and none of the aggro!

The original plumber seemed also keen not to make life difficult, he
intended to connect to the pipe as it left the house.

So, given that I have to (for simplicity's sake) connect to the steel pipe
(and www.philmac.co.uk doesn't seem to be working), any other suggestions?

snipped

================================
Is there any reason why the new pipe shouldn't rise outside and enter
through a hole in the wall? It would need suitable protection from all
possible sources of damage - both real and imaginary - but it's not
unheard of. Mobile homes usually have their water supply connected like
this with full approval I believe.

The old redundant pipe could be blanked and left in place for any possible
future modifications in the same way that gas pipes are left.

If it's safe to have 22mm copper gas pipes on outside walls I see no
reason why heavy duty plastic water pipe should be a problem.

Cic.

--
================================
Testing UBUNTU Linux
Everything working so far
================================

But the difficulty with your suggestion is that we would have to have
up to 2m of blue mdpe pipe going through our living room and then
entering the false wall where the water pipe then goes upto the loft.
We could box it in but thats more work. Our next door neighbour does
have a similar type arrangement it 15mm copper pipe with a stop tap but
it looks particularly ugly.

I've done an ascii diagram to illustrate

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
|
x
|
| xxxxxxxxxxxxx x
========| x false wall x x
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



Hope that helps to explain
Cicero wrote:


On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 07:52:29 -0800, David.Rignall wrote:

Yes, the trench is 750mm! deep, it was difficult enough to get to that
depth!

Much as I might like to dispense with all the steel pipe, if I choose to
replace it all I would have to rip up the hardwood flooring, excavate 1.5m
of concrete slab, then connect the pipe up to the copper pipe in a false
wall (which is currently unmolested). I really don't want the aggravation!
I can live with 2m of steel and none of the aggro!

The original plumber seemed also keen not to make life difficult, he
intended to connect to the pipe as it left the house.

So, given that I have to (for simplicity's sake) connect to the steel pipe
(and www.philmac.co.uk doesn't seem to be working), any other suggestions?

snipped

================================
Is there any reason why the new pipe shouldn't rise outside and enter
through a hole in the wall? It would need suitable protection from all
possible sources of damage - both real and imaginary - but it's not
unheard of. Mobile homes usually have their water supply connected like
this with full approval I believe.

The old redundant pipe could be blanked and left in place for any possible
future modifications in the same way that gas pipes are left.

If it's safe to have 22mm copper gas pipes on outside walls I see no
reason why heavy duty plastic water pipe should be a problem.

Cic.

--
================================
Testing UBUNTU Linux
Everything working so far
================================

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:17:01 GMT Cicero wrote :
If it's safe to have 22mm copper gas pipes on outside walls I see
no reason why heavy duty plastic water pipe should be a problem.

Frost. It doesn't matter how well you insulate the pipe as eventually
its temperature will fall to the outside temperature (OK not quite
true because of convection within the pipe)

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

wrote:
The plumber (who is approved by Anglian Water) sent me a quote for
just under £4000. I thought this a tad high.

The cost so far to do it my self has been

£180 - To take out my extended family for a meal to pay for the trench
day (32 meters of 750mm deep trench)
£45 Two lots of 50m*25mm mdpe blue piping (as we are doing next doors
pipe as well because we are nice!)
£433 To Anglian Water to pay for the connection.
Approx £20 for sundry items

Total cost £678.

I suspect I will buy 30m of larger diam tube to protect the water
pipes in the trench. I suspect this should be no more than £40.

We did consider moling but couldn't find a suitable person to do it.
It may well have been cheaper/easier?


Firstly, I doubt whether the water board will connect a new main to a
spliced pipe, they will want to see the main, in the hole prior to
backfilling, they will also want to see where it enters the house, this part
*must* be insulated with 100mm insulation for around six foot, the part
where it comes up from the bottom of the trench at 90 degrees under the
floor/wall of the house requires a rigid plastic sleeve (these can be bought
from most plumbers merchants) and the lagging and pipe are inside this,
where it enters the house it will obvioulsy need a stop tap, all this will
need to be in place before they will connect.

Attempting to join to steel is 1) almost impossible
2) a waste of time, money and effort considering it's heavily corroded
inside, causing severe pressure problems, hence the need for a new main.
and 3) as mentioned above, they probably won't connect to it.


HTH

Assuming this is correct, how can I insert the new pipe through the
floor and into the false wall without completely destroying the house
in the process?

Is there a moling system that will be able to do this? Any idea's on
whom might help with the next phase of the project?

Also, given that their are steel to mpde connectors available and that
the connection is on our land, can't we just say to the water board to
bog off?




Phil L wrote:
wrote:
The plumber (who is approved by Anglian Water) sent me a quote for
just under £4000. I thought this a tad high.

The cost so far to do it my self has been

£180 - To take out my extended family for a meal to pay for the trench
day (32 meters of 750mm deep trench)
£45 Two lots of 50m*25mm mdpe blue piping (as we are doing next doors
pipe as well because we are nice!)
£433 To Anglian Water to pay for the connection.
Approx £20 for sundry items

Total cost £678.

I suspect I will buy 30m of larger diam tube to protect the water
pipes in the trench. I suspect this should be no more than £40.

We did consider moling but couldn't find a suitable person to do it.
It may well have been cheaper/easier?


Firstly, I doubt whether the water board will connect a new main to a
spliced pipe, they will want to see the main, in the hole prior to
backfilling, they will also want to see where it enters the house, this part
*must* be insulated with 100mm insulation for around six foot, the part
where it comes up from the bottom of the trench at 90 degrees under the
floor/wall of the house requires a rigid plastic sleeve (these can be bought
from most plumbers merchants) and the lagging and pipe are inside this,
where it enters the house it will obvioulsy need a stop tap, all this will
need to be in place before they will connect.

Attempting to join to steel is 1) almost impossible
2) a waste of time, money and effort considering it's heavily corroded
inside, causing severe pressure problems, hence the need for a new main.
and 3) as mentioned above, they probably won't connect to it.


HTH

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:

Assuming this is correct, how can I insert the new pipe through the
floor and into the false wall without completely destroying the house
in the process?

Does it have to follow the *same* route as the old pipe? Isn't there any
easier way to get it into the loft?


Also, given that their are steel to mpde connectors available and that
the connection is on our land, can't we just say to the water board to
bog off?

Possibly. By the same token, why involve the water board at all - why not
put a steel to MDPE connector just on your side of the water board's stop
tap?

But unless you replace the whole lot - from the external stop tap to the
point where you need a decent flow rate - you may find that you haven't
removed the bottle-necks, and you will have spent a lot of money to little
avail. The internal pipework needs to be in at least 22mm copper or plastic
pipe - and certainly *not* in rusty 1/2" steel.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

wrote in message
ups.com...
Assuming this is correct, how can I insert the new pipe through the
floor and into the false wall without completely destroying the house
in the process?

People are trying to help, usually on the basis of been there done it.

Don't know your house so I don't know if some lateral thinking is needed. A
100 year old house, surely not a concrete raft foundation throughout? Any
reason why so where the water comes in? Has the house even got much of a
foundation? Access to an underbuilding anywhere? Just some of the
questions that people that have been there will be asking.

Is there a moling system that will be able to do this? Any idea's on
whom might help with the next phase of the project?

Only if you tell us what the next phase is.

Also, given that their are steel to mpde connectors available and that
the connection is on our land, can't we just say to the water board to
bog off?

Well I think Phil L described the standards correctly. Not sure whether the
water company would enforce them or not. When I got my supply changeover
done, lead at the back of the house to MDPE at the front of the house, the
changeover was scheduled for 11:00. Arrived back from work just before to
find the changeover completed. The termination of the new pipe inside my
house had not been checked. Fortunately it held. You can always tell them
to bog off but you do want your new connection?

Jim A

Given the very small size of the house, unless the pipe goes up the
side of the outside wall (I've seen them do it with gas pipes but I'm
not sure if it's legitimate to do it with water) there really is no
other option than to follow the old course

The iron / mdpe connection is someway from the connection that Anglian
water will do. Indeed, it is almost 32 meters away! The plan was to run
two new connections from the bottom of the garden (where our single
water main is) and then do the two connections just outside the doors
so that we can both have water meters (which is not possible with our
shared mains)

I'm hoping that our blockage is in the other 31 meters of pipe, given
that both our houses have poor pressure which I assume indicated that
the blockage is within the 'shared' section.

The pipe which emerges into the bathroom, on it's way up to the loft is
22mm copper so I suspect that the length of iron pipe left would be a
mere 2m. (i.e from outside the house, going to the false wall)

On digging the trench we discovered that as some point the Water Board
has indeed connected 'their' blue mdpe pipe to our iron pipe. My
thinking is that if they can do it, why can't I?




Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:

Assuming this is correct, how can I insert the new pipe through the
floor and into the false wall without completely destroying the house
in the process?

Does it have to follow the *same* route as the old pipe? Isn't there any
easier way to get it into the loft?


Also, given that their are steel to mpde connectors available and that
the connection is on our land, can't we just say to the water board to
bog off?

Possibly. By the same token, why involve the water board at all - why not
put a steel to MDPE connector just on your side of the water board's stop
tap?

But unless you replace the whole lot - from the external stop tap to the
point where you need a decent flow rate - you may find that you haven't
removed the bottle-necks, and you will have spent a lot of money to little
avail. The internal pipework needs to be in at least 22mm copper or plastic
pipe - and certainly *not* in rusty 1/2" steel.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

I am grateful for all the advise and guidance given.

Our 'red brick' cottage was I suspect a cow shed some 100 years ago!
Tragically, the flooring is a huge slab of concrete. Our water mains
access the house via the back garden which is 32 meters long. Entering
just 12" under the back door (which may have been the front door all
those years ago!)

The next phase of the project is installing gas central heating! We
have gas at the front of the house but currently we are all electric.
Without proper water pressure, a combi boiler just won't work.

Hope that clarifies it?


Jim Alexander wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
Assuming this is correct, how can I insert the new pipe through the
floor and into the false wall without completely destroying the house
in the process?

People are trying to help, usually on the basis of been there done it.

Don't know your house so I don't know if some lateral thinking is needed. A
100 year old house, surely not a concrete raft foundation throughout? Any
reason why so where the water comes in? Has the house even got much of a
foundation? Access to an underbuilding anywhere? Just some of the
questions that people that have been there will be asking.

Is there a moling system that will be able to do this? Any idea's on
whom might help with the next phase of the project?

Only if you tell us what the next phase is.

Also, given that their are steel to mpde connectors available and that
the connection is on our land, can't we just say to the water board to
bog off?

Well I think Phil L described the standards correctly. Not sure whether the
water company would enforce them or not. When I got my supply changeover
done, lead at the back of the house to MDPE at the front of the house, the
changeover was scheduled for 11:00. Arrived back from work just before to
find the changeover completed. The termination of the new pipe inside my
house had not been checked. Fortunately it held. You can always tell them
to bog off but you do want your new connection?

Jim A

wrote in message
ups.com...
I am grateful for all the advise and guidance given.

Our 'red brick' cottage was I suspect a cow shed some 100 years ago!
Tragically, the flooring is a huge slab of concrete. Our water mains
access the house via the back garden which is 32 meters long. Entering
just 12" under the back door (which may have been the front door all
those years ago!)


In that case look at the HSS diamond drilling rigs. You might be
surprised how reasonable the hire charges are. The secret with these would
be to drill down at an angle calculated to break out into your trench
extended just under the slab. Not sure if your £4000 plumber would have
done it this way but I would have expected a competent plumber/builder to do
it that way.

Accepting that your flow is currently poor are you confident that you have
adequate static pressure, because without that no amount of new pipwork
will give you good flow? Not convinced that is the case from anything you
have said.

The next phase of the project is installing gas central heating! We
have gas at the front of the house but currently we are all electric.
Without proper water pressure, a combi boiler just won't work.

Well if you ask the question in the NG I know you will get plenty opinion
about that.

Jim A

In message . com,
writes
I am grateful for all the advise and guidance given.

Our 'red brick' cottage was I suspect a cow shed some 100 years ago!
Tragically, the flooring is a huge slab of concrete. Our water mains
access the house via the back garden which is 32 meters long. Entering
just 12" under the back door (which may have been the front door all
those years ago!)

The agricultural solution would be to expose the steel pipe at the foot
of your internal wall, attach the MDPE to the cut off horizontal length
and then pull this back to your trench.

I'll bet plumbers used to dealing with buried pipes have the tackle to
do this.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

wrote:
I am grateful for all the advise and guidance given.

Our 'red brick' cottage was I suspect a cow shed some 100 years ago!
Tragically, the flooring is a huge slab of concrete. Our water mains

The floor slab is not original, IE it's not 100 years old and it can be
broken through, near to the wall....the easiest way to do it is like this:

1) dig the trench right up to the foundations.
2) hire a breaker and break out a hole in the wall, as low down as you can
get it, through both bricks and under the substrate of the floor.
3) scrape out as much subsrate as you can get out, so that it's a hollow.
4) go inside and break a hole in the floor, it should go through easily due
to it being hollow underneath, make it about 8 inches wide, enough to allow
the sleeving and insulation to come up to floor level.


Your ideas about taking it up an outside wall - forget it, it's been tried
and failed a thousand times in the past, there's only one way and that's
through the wall and under the floor...it doesn't have to go where the other
main is, we used to take them to the nearest cold water pipe inside,
sometimes it was behind the front door, sometimes in a downstairs bathroom.

it's 750mm deep for a reason - frost can't get to it, clipped to a wall is
different, it will freeze and it will burst...the only time I ever saw it
done like this, it had to have a brick built 'box' around it, filled
completely with insulation, which will cost you more than the last war.


What are the reason(s) why you can't have it done as I've mentioned above? -
if the concrete is less than two feet thick, it's doable.

Given the advice to date I will probably cut an access hole in the
false hearth/wall to see the pipework there and how the pipe comes up
from the floor.

Will have a look at the HSS drilling rigs but I am not sure how that
would work out (given I currently know nothing!) as I presume I would
have to have an attachment that would be up to 2 meters long?

Your comment on pressure is valid, however the other cottages in our
terraced row have pressure sufficient to make ours look feeble. I'm
again assuming that this indicates the main supply is adequate and it
is just 'our' pipe that is duff!

I'm hoping that once the water is rectified, the new heating system
should be relatively simple.

Jim Alexander wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
I am grateful for all the advise and guidance given.

Our 'red brick' cottage was I suspect a cow shed some 100 years ago!
Tragically, the flooring is a huge slab of concrete. Our water mains
access the house via the back garden which is 32 meters long. Entering
just 12" under the back door (which may have been the front door all
those years ago!)


In that case look at the HSS diamond drilling rigs. You might be
surprised how reasonable the hire charges are. The secret with these would
be to drill down at an angle calculated to break out into your trench
extended just under the slab. Not sure if your £4000 plumber would have
done it this way but I would have expected a competent plumber/builder to do
it that way.

Accepting that your flow is currently poor are you confident that you have
adequate static pressure, because without that no amount of new pipwork
will give you good flow? Not convinced that is the case from anything you
have said.

The next phase of the project is installing gas central heating! We
have gas at the front of the house but currently we are all electric.
Without proper water pressure, a combi boiler just won't work.

Well if you ask the question in the NG I know you will get plenty opinion
about that.

Jim A

wrote:
Yes, the trench is 750mm! deep, it was difficult enough to get to that
depth!

Much as I might like to dispense with all the steel pipe, if I choose
to replace it all I would have to rip up the hardwood flooring,
excavate 1.5m of concrete slab, then connect the pipe up to the copper
pipe in a false wall (which is currently unmolested). I really don't
want the aggravation! I can live with 2m of steel and none of the
aggro!

The original plumber seemed also keen not to make life difficult, he
intended to connect to the pipe as it left the house.

So, given that I have to (for simplicity's sake) connect to the steel
pipe (and www.philmac.co.uk doesn't seem to be working), any other
suggestions?


Your risk but my cottage was originally fed by a steel pipe from the
farm across the road which surprisingly was left live but plugged at
the end after it was replaced some 40 years ago. It has now been
isolated but prior to that it burst twice in the road causing no end of
bother.

Rob

wrote:
Given the advice to date I will probably cut an access hole in the
false hearth/wall to see the pipework there and how the pipe comes up
from the floor.

Will have a look at the HSS drilling rigs but I am not sure how that
would work out (given I currently know nothing!) as I presume I would
have to have an attachment that would be up to 2 meters long?

No...a diamond drill/core bit is for cutting through the concrete floor.
HSS is the name of the hire shop that has them


Your comment on pressure is valid, however the other cottages in our
terraced row have pressure sufficient to make ours look feeble. I'm
again assuming that this indicates the main supply is adequate and it
is just 'our' pipe that is duff!

I'm hoping that once the water is rectified, the new heating system
should be relatively simple.

Given that both your water mains ar connected at a Y, which is already
connected to alkathene and both houses are suffering low pressure, it's
fairly safe to say that the blockage is close to the house.

My mistake!

The advantage of drilling the hole in the lounge is that we could
install a stop tap at the same time.


Showing my ignorance but 'alkathene' ?? whats that?

My logic (please correct me if i'm wrong!) is that the 'restriction' in
the pipe must occur before the pipe Tee's off to the next door
neighbour. The reasoning is that if this wasn't the case then either we
or our neighbours would have adequate pressure. Therefore, the blockage
is in the shared section of pipe. The joint is about 2 meters from the
back door.



Phil L wrote:
wrote:
Given the advice to date I will probably cut an access hole in the
false hearth/wall to see the pipework there and how the pipe comes up
from the floor.

Will have a look at the HSS drilling rigs but I am not sure how that
would work out (given I currently know nothing!) as I presume I would
have to have an attachment that would be up to 2 meters long?

No...a diamond drill/core bit is for cutting through the concrete floor.
HSS is the name of the hire shop that has them


Your comment on pressure is valid, however the other cottages in our
terraced row have pressure sufficient to make ours look feeble. I'm
again assuming that this indicates the main supply is adequate and it
is just 'our' pipe that is duff!

I'm hoping that once the water is rectified, the new heating system
should be relatively simple.

Given that both your water mains ar connected at a Y, which is already
connected to alkathene and both houses are suffering low pressure, it's
fairly safe to say that the blockage is close to the house.

wrote:
My mistake!

The advantage of drilling the hole in the lounge is that we could
install a stop tap at the same time.

Now you're getting with the programme!


Showing my ignorance but 'alkathene' ?? whats that?

Blue plastic water main.


My logic (please correct me if i'm wrong!) is that the 'restriction'
in the pipe must occur before the pipe Tee's off to the next door
neighbour. The reasoning is that if this wasn't the case then either
we or our neighbours would have adequate pressure. Therefore, the
blockage is in the shared section of pipe. The joint is about 2
meters from the back door.

The restriction could be anywhere, and quite possibly everywhere within the
steel pipe, if you've gone this far, IE having the trench dug and buying the
alkathene, I can't see any point in botching things up so close to the
house...steel pipe has a tendency to corrode uniformly along it's length,
both internally and externally, although externally it's often coated in
bitumen, what started off as one inch diameter internally, may now be down
to less than a quarter of that.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:

I am grateful for all the advise and guidance given.

Our 'red brick' cottage was I suspect a cow shed some 100 years ago!
Tragically, the flooring is a huge slab of concrete. Our water mains
access the house via the back garden which is 32 meters long. Entering
just 12" under the back door (which may have been the front door all
those years ago!)

The next phase of the project is installing gas central heating! We
have gas at the front of the house but currently we are all electric.
Without proper water pressure, a combi boiler just won't work.

Hope that clarifies it?

Are you *sure* you want a combi boiler, anyway? You presumably have stored
hot water at the moment - albeit heated electrically? Why not have a
conventional boiler and use *that* to heat the stored hot water, as well as
heating the radiators?

As a matter of interest, what flow rate do you get with the existing pipe if
you turn a mains-fed cold tap on fully? [You'll need a bucket and a
stopwatch - and maybe some scales - to measure it. Collect the water for 1
minute (or 30 seconds and double the reading if more convenient) and measure
the water collected in litres, or weigh it in Kg, to get litres/minute].
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
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On 16 Dec 2006 08:38:00 -0800 someone who may be
wrote this:-

But the difficulty with your suggestion is that we would have to have
up to 2m of blue mdpe pipe going through our living room and then
entering the false wall where the water pipe then goes upto the loft.


Does it have to go through the living room and connect to the
existing pipes in a false wall? Could you not take the plastic pipe
in elsewhere and run it up to the loft? Adding a small amount of
copper pipe may be necessary to feed existing fittings "the wrong
way", but is usually not necessary.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

I've had a chance to test the flow rate that we currently have and it
pours out of the tap at a massive 2ltrs per minute!

There is really no other option than to use the false wall.


David Hansen wrote:
On 16 Dec 2006 08:38:00 -0800 someone who may be
wrote this:-

But the difficulty with your suggestion is that we would have to have
up to 2m of blue mdpe pipe going through our living room and then
entering the false wall where the water pipe then goes upto the loft.


Does it have to go through the living room and connect to the
existing pipes in a false wall? Could you not take the plastic pipe
in elsewhere and run it up to the loft? Adding a small amount of
copper pipe may be necessary to feed existing fittings "the wrong
way", but is usually not necessary.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 03:49:53 -0800, David.Rignall wrote:

After receiving an astronomical quote from a 'plumber', we decided to
install our own new water mains as it was the only way to correct the
problem of very poor water pressure (shared water mains with our
neighbour). Anglian Water have now seen us the price for them to
connect their bit (£433) and I have ordered the mdpe pipe (the length
is 30 odd meters). We are located near Towcester.

The trench has been dug to 750cm (the garden is looking like something
from the first world war..) and the 100 year old steel pipe is now
accessible.

My problem is how to connect the mdpe to the steel pipe? I am hoping
there is an easier alternative that to, cut the pipe, cut a new thread
and then make the connection.

The reason I can't just dispense with the steel altogether is that it
enters the house and in embedded in a concrete floor. I have no desire
to rip it all up. I'd rather just make the connection, outside the back
door where the pipe enters the house.

Is there an easier way? I haven't used a tap / die set since I was 14
years old (over 25 years ago at school), so I am not keen to practise
now...

You leave a couple of metres of the MDPE pipe ready for Anglian to
connect so there is no use of the steel pipe at that end.

You bring the MDPE pipe right into the house and then convert to 22mm in
Copper or Plastic with an adaptor.
If you have some steel pipe _inside_ the house that you are not yet ready
to ditch then you look for a suitable joint to unscrew and fit on a
screwed adaptor.

It nearly goes without saying that the steel pipe in the ground is not to
be used at all whatsoever. Likewise the steel in the house won't be
helping any and the increased water flow will likely cause a shower of
rust particles to comes out of the all the tap and stick in all the
fitting and appliances. YMMV but YHBW.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards