Hi,

We have recently moved house and in investigating the bad smell coming
from the boxing in the upstairs bathroom I have noticed that the toilet
discharges into the open top of the soil stack with a smaller diameter
pipe, ie not sealed. A bath and basin connect as normal below this and
on the ground floor a sink and washing machine before it disappears into
the ground. A separate stack runs up the outside of the house to a vent,
unfortunately I don't know what happens underground.
The obvious answer to the smell would be to replumb the toilet
"properly" into the top of the stack to seal it. However I am unsure if
this would affect drainage etc, ie whether the outside vent is
sufficient as the inside stack would no longer be "vented". Can I do
this or is there a better solution for the smell

I suspect the "right" answer involves discussing with the surveyor why
he didn't identify the significant work involved with redoing the soil
stack but would be very grateful for other opinions.

Many thanks

Alistair

On 2006-12-13 21:16:59 +0000, Alistair Bell
said:

Hi,

We have recently moved house and in investigating the bad smell coming
from the boxing in the upstairs bathroom I have noticed that the toilet
discharges into the open top of the soil stack with a smaller diameter
pipe, ie not sealed. A bath and basin connect as normal below this and
on the ground floor a sink and washing machine before it disappears
into the ground. A separate stack runs up the outside of the house to a
vent, unfortunately I don't know what happens underground.
The obvious answer to the smell would be to replumb the toilet
"properly" into the top of the stack to seal it. However I am unsure if
this would affect drainage etc, ie whether the outside vent is
sufficient as the inside stack would no longer be "vented". Can I do
this or is there a better solution for the smell

I suspect the "right" answer involves discussing with the surveyor why
he didn't identify the significant work involved with redoing the soil
stack but would be very grateful for other opinions.

Many thanks

Alistair

Durgo would probably be your friend here.

http://www.marleyalutec.co.uk/sw_design.asp

Yuck. The open discharge may have been a bodge solution to loo flushing
resulting in blowing/sucking out the traps on the bath and washbasin.
Read the Building Regulations
(http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADH_2002.pdf) to
check how it should be designed, you may be able to solve it with an
air admittance valve. However I don't think it's acceptable for the
valve to be boxed in.

wrote:
Yuck. The open discharge may have been a bodge solution to loo flushing
resulting in blowing/sucking out the traps on the bath and washbasin.
Read the Building Regulations
(http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADH_2002.pdf) to
check how it should be designed, you may be able to solve it with an
air admittance valve. However I don't think it's acceptable for the
valve to be boxed in.

It's OK to box it in provided it's not 'sealed', ie if you provide
ventilation into the boxing (eg a plastic grille). The point is not to
end up with a potential vacuum within the boxing which would stop the
valve from working.

Note that it's not always possible to fit one of these - eg, if the
sewer to your house is at the end of a run, or if the sewer isn't vented
normally at a property within two of yours (or something like that, I
can't remember the details - probably tells you somewhere in the URL
above!).

Search the archives of this newsgroup for "Durgo" - should help.

David

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:16:59 +0000 someone who may be Alistair Bell
wrote this:-

We have recently moved house and in investigating the bad smell coming
from the boxing in the upstairs bathroom I have noticed that the toilet
discharges into the open top of the soil stack with a smaller diameter
pipe, ie not sealed.

The toilet has a smaller diameter pipe? If so what diameter? Do you
mean that the toilet discharges into a tee, but the top of this tee
is simply vented to the bathroom.

The obvious answer to the smell would be to replumb the toilet
"properly" into the top of the stack to seal it. However I am unsure if
this would affect drainage etc, ie whether the outside vent is
sufficient as the inside stack would no longer be "vented". Can I do
this or is there a better solution for the smell

Well you can do it, obviously. The question is whether you should do
it and the answer is no. If you did it then when the toilet was
flushed air would have to come up the pipe from the sewers and the
outside pipe, against the downward flow of water. That won't work
very well.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Alistair Bell wrote:
Hi,

We have recently moved house and in investigating the bad smell coming
from the boxing in the upstairs bathroom I have noticed that the toilet
discharges into the open top of the soil stack with a smaller diameter
pipe, ie not sealed. A bath and basin connect as normal below this and
on the ground floor a sink and washing machine before it disappears into
the ground. A separate stack runs up the outside of the house to a vent,
unfortunately I don't know what happens underground.
The obvious answer to the smell would be to replumb the toilet
"properly" into the top of the stack to seal it. However I am unsure if
this would affect drainage etc, ie whether the outside vent is
sufficient as the inside stack would no longer be "vented". Can I do
this or is there a better solution for the smell

I suspect the "right" answer involves discussing with the surveyor why
he didn't identify the significant work involved with redoing the soil
stack but would be very grateful for other opinions.

Many thanks

Alistair
You probably want to add a proper coupling to the stack, attach the bog
to that and fit a Durgo valve to the lot. I found a 3" one that fits
inside my walls..just..

wrote:
Yuck. The open discharge may have been a bodge solution to loo flushing
resulting in blowing/sucking out the traps on the bath and washbasin.
Read the Building Regulations
(http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADH_2002.pdf) to
check how it should be designed, you may be able to solve it with an
air admittance valve. However I don't think it's acceptable for the
valve to be boxed in.

SSSHH!

It merely has to be 'accessible'

It's my business if that means pulling the cistern off the wall and
opening that up with a jigsaw :-)

Lobster wrote:
wrote:
Yuck. The open discharge may have been a bodge solution to loo flushing
resulting in blowing/sucking out the traps on the bath and washbasin.
Read the Building Regulations
(http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADH_2002.pdf) to
check how it should be designed, you may be able to solve it with an
air admittance valve. However I don't think it's acceptable for the
valve to be boxed in.

It's OK to box it in provided it's not 'sealed', ie if you provide
ventilation into the boxing (eg a plastic grille). The point is not to
end up with a potential vacuum within the boxing which would stop the
valve from working.

Note that it's not always possible to fit one of these - eg, if the
sewer to your house is at the end of a run, or if the sewer isn't vented
normally at a property within two of yours (or something like that, I
can't remember the details - probably tells you somewhere in the URL
above!).

Search the archives of this newsgroup for "Durgo" - should help.

David

The issue4 here is to realise that a Durgo and a soild stack vent do not
do the same job. Although a vent will prevent a stack vacuum, just like
a durgo, the stack also vents positive pressure - i.e. methane caused by
decomposing faeces etc..which a Durgo will not. The regulations are more
about people replacing vents with durgos, than adding an extra one.

Thanks all for the various replies, I have started having a look at the
valves.

David Hansen wrote:
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:16:59 +0000 someone who may be Alistair Bell
The toilet has a smaller diameter pipe? If so what diameter? Do you
mean that the toilet discharges into a tee, but the top of this tee
is simply vented to the bathroom.

The toilet pipe is made up of two 90 bends that push fit together, the
narrower end around 3 1/4" perhaps slightly more. This just hangs into
the top of the 4" stack pipe in the corner of the room at floor level.

Well you can do it, obviously. The question is whether you should do
it and the answer is no. If you did it then when the toilet was
flushed air would have to come up the pipe from the sewers and the
outside pipe, against the downward flow of water. That won't work
very well.

won't work very well as in not usable, or usable but definitely
substandard?
There certainly isn't room to extend the stack upwards to fit a valve at
the proper height, possibly just enough to fit one straight on the top
of a toilet entry tee. I realise that these solutions run the risk of
flooding out the top of the stack if it blocks, but it could do that at
the moment so I'm not loosing anything in that respect.

Thanks

Alistair

Alistair Bell wrote:
Thanks all for the various replies, I have started having a look at the
valves.

David Hansen wrote:
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:16:59 +0000 someone who may be Alistair Bell
The toilet has a smaller diameter pipe? If so what diameter? Do you
mean that the toilet discharges into a tee, but the top of this tee
is simply vented to the bathroom.

The toilet pipe is made up of two 90 bends that push fit together, the
narrower end around 3 1/4" perhaps slightly more. This just hangs into
the top of the 4" stack pipe in the corner of the room at floor level.

Well you can do it, obviously. The question is whether you should do
it and the answer is no. If you did it then when the toilet was
flushed air would have to come up the pipe from the sewers and the
outside pipe, against the downward flow of water. That won't work
very well.

won't work very well as in not usable, or usable but definitely
substandard?
There certainly isn't room to extend the stack upwards to fit a valve at
the proper height, possibly just enough to fit one straight on the top
of a toilet entry tee. I realise that these solutions run the risk of
flooding out the top of the stack if it blocks, but it could do that at
the moment so I'm not loosing anything in that respect.

Fit a durgo immediately above the connector - -it won't flood. closes
under positive pressure..it might weep slightly, but with a blocked
pipe, that is the least of your worries..;-)

Thanks

Alistair

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Fit a durgo immediately above the connector - -it won't flood. closes
under positive pressure..it might weep slightly, but with a blocked
pipe, that is the least of your worries..;-)


I think that is the best way forward, thanks for the comments, just got
to get hold of the bits now but I have a day off work tomorrow so can go
to the proper plumbers merchants not the chain DIY places that in West
Cumbria seem to stock everything but what you went in for :-)

Cheers

Alistair