be aware
that Dave is a trader and not a diy'er, and feeds of the group for advice to
carry out his business, which I think has a proper place.

Steve Dawson
www.foxelectrical.co.uk

And what are you then, going by your sig ?. Dave has been on this group
for a long time and has always given good advice. I have never, ever seen
him abuse that. How long have you been posting here ?

Dave

"gort" wrote in message
news

be aware
that Dave is a trader and not a diy'er, and feeds of the group for advice
to
carry out his business, which I think has a proper place.

Steve Dawson
www.foxelectrical.co.uk

And what are you then, going by your sig ?. Dave has been on this group
for a long time and has always given good advice. I have never, ever seen
him abuse that. How long have you been posting here ?

Dave

For everbodys info,

My credentials

Apprentice electrical fitter for Southern Electric Plc 1988 - 1992
High Voltage Distribution Fitter for Southern Electric, carrying out
maintenance and construction on all voltages ad systems between 12V dc and
132KV 1992 - 2001
Started own business in 1998 working part time on days off. Changed name in
1998 to Fox Electrical, Left Southern Electric in 2001, to work full time on
my business. Became ECA registered contractor in 2002, NICEIC registered in
2006.

I have a CG232pt 2, CG2377, CG2380, CG2391, have finished the CG2400, but
not had time to do the design assignemnt yet.

Run a small electrical business, doing a wide variety of jobs, and diagree
with the application of Part P. but agree agree with the theory, but it is
not working.

My original point regarding Dave's post was that I have and do such repairs,
using crimps and heatshrink, but some time the crimp does not hold or I
missed for some reason. Any way with out testing it correctly how are you to
know whether or not the repair is safe??

The point was to get Dave to think about the consequences of a failed
repair, and what he would do to defend himself, if someone was injured. No
scarey bits intend, just to open your eyes to what may occur.

You nay create a high resistance joint which could potentially start a fire,
or maybe the earth ( or 'circuit protective conductor' to give it it's
proper name maybe open circuit. Where would the potential fault go in a
class 1 appliance?? Possible thru the case and the person touching.

A way of demonstrating that you have carried this out correctly is to issue
test certs, in this case we would look to issue a Minor Works Certificate,
because the work that has been carried out has interfered with the
characteristics of the circuit.

I have no gripe with Dave, he is good and proactive group member, but needs
as a fledging business to be aware of potential pitfalls. It would be the
same as be putting in a gas heating system, but I have no idea how to
commision it or what is the correct burning characteristics.

Oh, one more thing, everybody on this group knows I am awful at speeling and
grammar, which is why I build things, not wite things.

Now, lets all play nicely again :-) and not jump down people's throats when
they offer advice, unless it is bad or dangerous.

Regards to Everyone, even Dr Drivel

Steve Dawson
www.foxelectrical.co.uk

In article ,
Stephen Dawson wrote:
My original point regarding Dave's post was that I have and do such
repairs, using crimps and heatshrink, but some time the crimp does not
hold or I missed for some reason.

Just as a follow up, the insulated type may be approved, but have you ever
removed the insulation and examined one after crimping? They look
terrible. I far prefer non insulated types where the crimper has shaped
jaws which turn one side of the crimp sort of in on itself. They may both
be functional, but one 'looks' so much better.

--
*The statement above is false

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 19:48:43 GMT, "Stephen Dawson"
wrote:


My original point regarding Dave's post was that I have and do such repairs,
using crimps and heatshrink, but some time the crimp does not hold or I
missed for some reason.

Invariably the cause of this is the use of incorrect crimps and/or
tooling. The standard Partpee electrician carries a cheap (rusty)
non pressure regulated pressed metal squeeze crimp pliers tool and a
box red blue and yellow (RBY) crimps of unknown (other than they were
the cheapest) provenance.

A crimp joint done with the correct ratchet tool and using RBY crimps
meant for solid core cable (most are not) will always hold.

Any way with out testing it correctly how are you to
know whether or not the repair is safe??

The correct test for a crimp joint is to exert the correct pull out
force on it and check it holds. No electrical test can test a crimp
joint for any fault other than ones so gross they should be visible
to the naked eye.

The point was to get Dave to think about the consequences of a failed
repair, and what he would do to defend himself, if someone was injured. No
scarey bits intend, just to open your eyes to what may occur.

If all you could show was you had used the wrong tool, the wrong
component and the wrong test I'm not sure this would be much of a
defence, certificates or not.

A way of demonstrating that you have carried this out correctly is to issue
test certs,

No it isn't, that simply proves you have issued a certificate. If it
is based upon an inappropriate test for the work done it is
meaningless. I can consistently crimp you many joints with the toy
pliers so beloved of electricians which would pass all your tests and
fail within weeks. The way to do the work correctly is to use the
right tools and components in the first place. To do this you need
to know what the right tool and components are - something most
electricians (in this case) don't.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

In article ,
Peter Parry wrote:
The way to do the work correctly is to use the
right tools and components in the first place. To do this you need
to know what the right tool and components are - something most
electricians (in this case) don't.

This is the tool I use:-
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/DVDHCR15.html

And these crimps:-
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...ols/index.html

Are you saying neither is really up to the job? If so, could you give some
recommendations?

--
*Where do forest rangers go to "get away from it all?"

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 13:22:15 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


This is the tool I use:-
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/DVDHCR15.html

And these crimps:-
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...ols/index.html

Are you saying neither is really up to the job?

The tool is fine - it's the sort at

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CRIMPING-TOOL-SET-100s-OF-CRIMPS-PLIERS-WIRE-STRIPPER_W0QQitemZ280045621630QQihZ018QQcategoryZ2 983QQcmdZViewItem

which are useless.

The crimps, I have no idea. A simple but accurate test of tool and
cable is to join the wire you want in the way you want and try to
pull it apart. There is a full test spec on a Swedish web site
somewhere but as a guide, for red terminals hang a gallon container
of water from the joint - it should hold for at least a minute. (blue
- 2 galls, yellow, 3 galls).

A pullout force calculator for BS6516 Pt2 is available at
http://www.hitekcal.co.uk/services/crimp_calc.php

(to test blade connectors clamp the blade part only in a vice and
hang the container from the crimped wire).

Usually only the more expensive crimps will claim suitability for
both stranded and solid wire and the wire diameters differ from those
for stranded wire - the single strand range being a somewhat narrower
band as the single wire doesn't deform as well as stranded.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 13:22:15 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


This is the tool I use:-
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/DVDHCR15.html

And these crimps:-
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...ols/index.html

Are you saying neither is really up to the job?

The tool is fine - it's the sort at

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CRIMPING-TOOL-SET-100s-OF-CRIMPS-PLIERS-WIRE-STRIPPER_W0QQitemZ280045621630QQihZ018QQcategoryZ2 983QQcmdZViewItem

which are useless.

The crimps, I have no idea. A simple but accurate test of tool and
cable is to join the wire you want in the way you want and try to
pull it apart. There is a full test spec on a Swedish web site
somewhere but as a guide, for red terminals hang a gallon container
of water from the joint - it should hold for at least a minute. (blue
- 2 galls, yellow, 3 galls).

A pullout force calculator for BS6516 Pt2 is available at
http://www.hitekcal.co.uk/services/crimp_calc.php

(to test blade connectors clamp the blade part only in a vice and
hang the container from the crimped wire).

Usually only the more expensive crimps will claim suitability for
both stranded and solid wire and the wire diameters differ from those
for stranded wire - the single strand range being a somewhat narrower
band as the single wire doesn't deform as well as stranded.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Peter,

The tool that I use cost £60 is made by Klauke, so is not a mickey mouse.
However the the mickey mouse have one use only, they cut M3.5 socket boxes
screw perfectly.

Steve

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 16:15:48 GMT, "Stephen Dawson"
wrote:


"Peter Parry" wrote
The tool is fine - it's the sort at

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CRIMPING-TOOL-SET-100s-OF-CRIMPS-PLIERS-WIRE-STRIPPER_W0QQitemZ280045621630QQihZ018QQcategoryZ2 983QQcmdZViewItem

which are useless.

The tool that I use cost £60 is made by Klauke, so is not a mickey mouse.

Surprisingly for tools where you often get exactly what you pay for
the GBP12 - 15 ones are as good as many of the more expensive ones
and many have adjustable settings.

How many electricians do you know who have the pliers crimp tools
though as opposed to ratchet ones?

However the the mickey mouse have one use only, they cut M3.5 socket boxes
screw perfectly.

True.
--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/