I am in the UK and have an old portable electric heater.

The mains flex to the heater is like that to a domestic iron: woven
fabric outer overlaying a rubber (?) outer sheath. With each of the
three leads covered in rubber insulation and three cords running
alongside the three leads.

(1) Is the fabric outer to make the flex resistent to KINKING? Or is
it there for HEAT PROTECTION?

(2) Is the RUBBER used in this sort of flex especially resistent to
TEMPERATURE?

(3) Are the alternative materials (such as silicone rubber) used in
modern equivalents to this type of lead SUPERIOR IN ALL RESPECTS to the
sort of flex I have described?

"Urman" wrote in message
...
I am in the UK and have an old portable electric heater.

The mains flex to the heater is like that to a domestic iron: woven
fabric outer overlaying a rubber (?) outer sheath. With each of the
three leads covered in rubber insulation and three cords running
alongside the three leads.

(1) Is the fabric outer to make the flex resistent to KINKING? Or
is
it there for HEAT PROTECTION?

(2) Is the RUBBER used in this sort of flex especially resistent to
TEMPERATURE?

(3) Are the alternative materials (such as silicone rubber) used in
modern equivalents to this type of lead SUPERIOR IN ALL RESPECTS to
the
sort of flex I have described?

I have found that the silicone rubber modern ones tend to split rather
easily if frequently flexed. Examples : a/ Weller bench mounted
soldering iron - lasts about a year before cable needing replacing. b/
My dentists magic camera that he pokes in my mouth - silicone rubber
sheath cable split within 6 months

AWEM

In article ,
Andrew Mawson wrote:
Examples : a/ Weller bench mounted
soldering iron - lasts about a year before cable needing replacing.

Hmm. My oldest Antex must be something like 15 years old. I do have
several and swop them to the PS rather than change bits, but of course one
gets the most use and I've not had any problems. Is your Weller in heavy
use?

--
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Andrew Mawson wrote

I have found that the silicone rubber modern
ones tend to split rather easily if frequently flexed.
Examples : a/ Weller bench mounted soldering iron
- lasts about a year before cable needing replacing.

Hmm. My oldest Antex must be something like 15 years old.
I do have several and swop them to the PS rather than change
bits, but of course one gets the most use and I've not had any
problems. Is your Weller in heavy use?

My Wellers are much older than that and havent split.

I have found that the silicone rubber modern ones tend to split rather
easily if frequently flexed. Examples : a/ Weller bench mounted
soldering iron - lasts about a year before cable needing replacing. b/
My dentists magic camera that he pokes in my mouth - silicone rubber
sheath cable split within 6 months

AWEM

Never really saw that with all the production Wellers we had in the
factory, must have had 20-30 going 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

Dave

In article ,
Urman writes:
I am in the UK and have an old portable electric heater.

The mains flex to the heater is like that to a domestic iron: woven
fabric outer overlaying a rubber (?) outer sheath. With each of the
three leads covered in rubber insulation and three cords running
alongside the three leads.

(1) Is the fabric outer to make the flex resistent to KINKING? Or is
it there for HEAT PROTECTION?

(2) Is the RUBBER used in this sort of flex especially resistent to
TEMPERATURE?

(3) Are the alternative materials (such as silicone rubber) used in
modern equivalents to this type of lead SUPERIOR IN ALL RESPECTS to the
sort of flex I have described?

The answers to these questions have completely changed over time.
Back when your heater was bought, the cotten cover improved the
heat resistance of the cord against coming in contact with hot
surfaces. Nowadays, various types of man-made rubber can survive
higher temperatures than cotten so it's no longer used for this
purpose.

However, you'll still find cotten covering on iron cords. The
reason for this is that rubber cords catch on the fabric you are
trying to iron and move it on the ironing board, whereas the
cotten covering helps reduce the effect as it slides easier
against fabrics.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
(Andrew Gabriel) writes:
In article ,
Urman writes:
I am in the UK and have an old portable electric heater.

The mains flex to the heater is like that to a domestic iron: woven
fabric outer overlaying a rubber (?) outer sheath. With each of the
three leads covered in rubber insulation and three cords running
alongside the three leads.

(1) Is the fabric outer to make the flex resistent to KINKING? Or is
it there for HEAT PROTECTION?

(2) Is the RUBBER used in this sort of flex especially resistent to
TEMPERATURE?

(3) Are the alternative materials (such as silicone rubber) used in
modern equivalents to this type of lead SUPERIOR IN ALL RESPECTS to the
sort of flex I have described?

The answers to these questions have completely changed over time.
Back when your heater was bought, the cotten cover improved the
heat resistance of the cord against coming in contact with hot

By "cord" here, I mean the whole cable, and not the three pieces of
string (which are just fillers to keep the outer shape circular,
which helps avoid kinking).

surfaces. Nowadays, various types of man-made rubber can survive
higher temperatures than cotten so it's no longer used for this
purpose.

However, you'll still find cotten covering on iron cords. The
reason for this is that rubber cords catch on the fabric you are
trying to iron and move it on the ironing board, whereas the
cotten covering helps reduce the effect as it slides easier
against fabrics.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 31 Oct 2006, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
Urman writes:
I am in the UK and have an old portable electric heater.

The mains flex to the heater is like that to a domestic iron:
woven fabric outer overlaying a rubber (?) outer sheath. With
each of the three leads covered in rubber insulation and three
cords running alongside the three leads.

(1) Is the fabric outer to make the flex resistent to KINKING?
Or is it there for HEAT PROTECTION?

(2) Is the RUBBER used in this sort of flex especially resistent
to TEMPERATURE?

(3) Are the alternative materials (such as silicone rubber) used
in modern equivalents to this type of lead SUPERIOR IN ALL
RESPECTS to the sort of flex I have described?

The answers to these questions have completely changed over time.
Back when your heater was bought, the cotten cover improved the
heat resistance of the cord against coming in contact with hot
surfaces. Nowadays, various types of man-made rubber can survive
higher temperatures than cotten so it's no longer used for this
purpose.

However, you'll still find cotten covering on iron cords. The
reason for this is that rubber cords catch on the fabric you are
trying to iron and move it on the ironing board, whereas the
cotten covering helps reduce the effect as it slides easier
against fabrics.


Is there somewhere on the net where I can see the British Standard
for main cables for free? The sites I try seem to charge for it.

Based on this search http://tinyurl.com/ycnzz8 I think the standard
is BS6500 (1990).

In article ,
Urman writes:
Is there somewhere on the net where I can see the British Standard
for main cables for free? The sites I try seem to charge for it.

That's because British Standards charge for all their standards.
When the standard is a joint one with some other body (as in the
case of the Wiring Regs), it is usually cheaper from the other
body.

Based on this search http://tinyurl.com/ycnzz8 I think the standard
is BS6500 (1990).

"Electric cables. Flexible cords rated at 300/500V, for use
with appliances and equipment intended for domestic, office
and similar environments."

A 1990 version would be out of date (I see a reference to a
2000 version, but I don't know if that's the latest).

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 31 Oct 2006, Andrew Gabriel wrote:


In article ,
Urman writes:
I am in the UK and have an old portable electric heater.

The mains flex to the heater is like that to a domestic iron:
woven fabric outer overlaying a rubber (?) outer sheath. With
each of the three leads covered in rubber insulation and three
cords running alongside the three leads.

(1) Is the fabric outer to make the flex resistent to KINKING?
Or is it there for HEAT PROTECTION?

(2) Is the RUBBER used in this sort of flex especially resistent
to TEMPERATURE?

(3) Are the alternative materials (such as silicone rubber) used
in modern equivalents to this type of lead SUPERIOR IN ALL
RESPECTS to the sort of flex I have described?

The answers to these questions have completely changed over time.
Back when your heater was bought, the cotten cover improved the
heat resistance of the cord against coming in contact with hot
surfaces. Nowadays, various types of man-made rubber can survive
higher temperatures than cotten so it's no longer used for this
purpose.

However, you'll still find cotten covering on iron cords. The
reason for this is that rubber cords catch on the fabric you are
trying to iron and move it on the ironing board, whereas the
cotten covering helps reduce the effect as it slides easier
against fabrics.



Is Butyl Rubber better than silicone rubber for heat resistance?

On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 21:22:27 GMT, Alex Coleman
wrote:

Is Butyl Rubber better than silicone rubber for heat resistance?

"Liar, liar! Tits on fire!"

"Urman" wrote in message
...
|I am in the UK and have an old portable electric heater.

So donate it to a museum or scrap yard.


| The mains flex to the heater is like that to a domestic iron: woven
| fabric outer overlaying a rubber (?) outer sheath.

Yes, it is vulcanized latex, better known as "rubber".


| With each of the
| three leads covered in rubber insulation and three cords running
| alongside the three leads.

The string is to prevent stretching.

| (1) Is the fabric outer to make the flex resistent to KINKING?

Yes. But it frays with excessive twisting/bending, usually where it
enters the appliance. No need to shout.

| Or is
| it there for HEAT PROTECTION?

No. Cotton is flammable.


| (2) Is the RUBBER used in this sort of flex especially resistent to
| TEMPERATURE?

No. The cord or flex should be kept away from direct heat.
After entering the appliance (iron, toaster, heater) the rubber sheath
and fabric is stripped away and the conductors sheathed in a heat
resistant material that also insulates, such as fibreglass.


| (3) Are the alternative materials (such as silicone rubber) used in
| modern equivalents to this type of lead SUPERIOR IN ALL RESPECTS to the
| sort of flex I have described?

In general, yes, material science has made improvements over
older technology, although the techniques of insulation have changed little.

A neighbour of mine recently asked me if I knew of anyone interested
in a Betamax VCR. I told him he had to be joking and found one
on e-bay to show him, £0.99.
If you want to use old technology, go the whole hog and light a
coal fire, clean out the ashes each day and hire a chimney sweep
on a regular basis - if you can find one - see Mary Poppins.
Get a wooden clothes horse and dry your knickers in front of
the fire.
Otherwise find an empty space in a bin or scrap yard before
you incinerate yourself and your family accidentally.

Androcles

(Note to Dork Van de merde: it's ok for *you* to use old appliances.)

On Oct 31, 9:18 pm, "Androcles" wrote:
"Urman" wrote in ...
|I am in the UK and have an old portable electric heater.

So donate it to a museum or scrap yard.

Why, FFS? It may well be just as serviceable and safe as when it was
manufactured. On the other hand it may need a thorough safety check,
still doesn't mean it's scrap. We all put too much store in modern
"safety" legislation whan all that is needed is a little common sense,
although a decent education system wouldn't go amiss.

A neighbour of mine recently asked me if I knew of anyone interested
in a Betamax VCR. I told him he had to be joking and found one
on e-bay to show him, £0.99.

Different issue entirely. Betamax has been superceded and requires a
ready supply of consumables (tapes) to be effective. Electric heating
is still widely used and the consumables are still widely available to
the vast majority of homes in the country.

What else would you have us dump, just because something more modern is
available? Should all new Mums give up breast feeding just because it's
as old as the ark?

MBQ

wrote:
On Oct 31, 9:18 pm, "Androcles" wrote:
"Urman" wrote in ...

|I am in the UK and have an old portable electric heater.

So donate it to a museum or scrap yard.

Why, FFS? It may well be just as serviceable and safe as when it was
manufactured. On the other hand it may need a thorough safety check,
still doesn't mean it's scrap. We all put too much store in modern
"safety" legislation whan all that is needed is a little common sense,
although a decent education system wouldn't go amiss.

A neighbour of mine recently asked me if I knew of anyone interested
in a Betamax VCR. I told him he had to be joking and found one
on e-bay to show him, £0.99.

Different issue entirely. Betamax has been superceded and requires a
ready supply of consumables (tapes) to be effective. Electric heating
is still widely used and the consumables are still widely available to
the vast majority of homes in the country.

What else would you have us dump, just because something more modern is
available? Should all new Mums give up breast feeding just because it's
as old as the ark?

MBQ

I agree with you in general, but not in this specific case. Heaters
several decades old are routinely risky appliances, frequently with
bare live parts, insulation in very poor condition, and often no
effective cordgrip and/or perished rubber wire. With an old cloth
rubber cord it sounds that age. I would not use it without a proper
checkup first.


NT

In article .com,
writes:
I agree with you in general, but not in this specific case. Heaters
several decades old are routinely risky appliances, frequently with
bare live parts, insulation in very poor condition, and often no
effective cordgrip and/or perished rubber wire. With an old cloth
rubber cord it sounds that age. I would not use it without a proper
checkup first.

They are however easily servicable, and most perishable parts are
easily replaced with modern equivalents. Once serviced, the are often
much better quality and more robust than anything you can buy today.

There is one gotcha to look out for though -- if it doesn't conform
to IP2X (finger unable to touch a live part) then it's not going to
be able to pass a PAT test. Older heaters often didn't have closely
enough spaced wire grills to conform (check underneath convector
heaters too). For this touch test, a silica glass tube containing an
element also counts as a live part (common in old Dimplex radiant
heaters) as the glass is too fragile by itself to be regarded as
suitable insulation to provide protection against electric shock.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Nov 4, 1:29 am, wrote:
wrote:
On Oct 31, 9:18 pm, "Androcles" wrote:
"Urman" wrote in ...
|I am in the UK and have an old portable electric heater.
So donate it to a museum or scrap yard.
Why, FFS? It may well be just as serviceable and safe as when it was
manufactured. On the other hand it may need a thorough safety check,
still doesn't mean it's scrap. We all put too much store in modern
"safety" legislation whan all that is needed is a little common sense,
although a decent education system wouldn't go amiss.

A neighbour of mine recently asked me if I knew of anyone interested
in a Betamax VCR. I told him he had to be joking and found one
on e-bay to show him, £0.99.

Different issue entirely. Betamax has been superceded and requires a
ready supply of consumables (tapes) to be effective. Electric heating
is still widely used and the consumables are still widely available to
the vast majority of homes in the country.

What else would you have us dump, just because something more modern is
available? Should all new Mums give up breast feeding just because it's
as old as the ark?

MBQI agree with you in general, but not in this specific case. Heaters
several decades old are routinely risky appliances, frequently with
bare live parts, insulation in very poor condition, and often no
effective cordgrip and/or perished rubber wire. With an old cloth
rubber cord it sounds that age. I would not use it without a proper
checkup first.

So, actually, you do agree in this case as I said "it may need a
thorough safety check".

MBQ

In article .com,
wrote:
A neighbour of mine recently asked me if I knew of anyone interested
in a Betamax VCR. I told him he had to be joking and found one
on e-bay to show him, £0.99.

Price actually sold at? And there are some versions that are very much in
demand.

Different issue entirely. Betamax has been superceded and requires a
ready supply of consumables (tapes) to be effective.

Still easily obtainable as they are shared with the pro BetaCam system.

--
*42.7% of statistics are made up. Sorry, that should read 47.2% *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:
A neighbour of mine recently asked me if I knew of anyone interested
in a Betamax VCR. I told him he had to be joking and found one
on e-bay to show him, £0.99.

Price actually sold at? And there are some versions that are very much in
demand.

Different issue entirely. Betamax has been superceded and requires a
ready supply of consumables (tapes) to be effective.

Still easily obtainable as they are shared with the pro BetaCam system.

Only the original Betacam oxide tapes (pre Betacam SP and therefore pre
1988) will work in domestic Betamax machines. The SP/SX/DigiBeta/M50 tapes
are metal formulations. Magnetically they won't work, and mechanically
they'll damage the Betamax heads.

The Betacam oxide tapes did work very well though :-)

In any case if a Betamax machine comes with a selection of serviceable
tapes, what's the problem for timeshift use ?

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

In message , Mark Carver
writes
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:
A neighbour of mine recently asked me if I knew of anyone interested
in a Betamax VCR. I told him he had to be joking and found one
on e-bay to show him, £0.99.
Price actually sold at? And there are some versions that are very
much in
demand.

Different issue entirely. Betamax has been superceded and requires a
ready supply of consumables (tapes) to be effective.
Still easily obtainable as they are shared with the pro BetaCam
system.

Only the original Betacam oxide tapes (pre Betacam SP and therefore pre
1988) will work in domestic Betamax machines. The SP/SX/DigiBeta/M50
tapes are metal formulations. Magnetically they won't work, and
mechanically they'll damage the Betamax heads.

The Betacam oxide tapes did work very well though :-)

In any case if a Betamax machine comes with a selection of serviceable
tapes, what's the problem for timeshift use ?

I've got some unused betamax tapes somewhere

--
geoff

In article ,
Mark Carver wrote:
Still easily obtainable as they are shared with the pro BetaCam system.

Only the original Betacam oxide tapes (pre Betacam SP and therefore pre
1988) will work in domestic Betamax machines.

Indeed. Which is way I said BetaCam rather than BetaCam SP. But the tapes
are still available, or were last time I looked.

The SP/SX/DigiBeta/M50 tapes
are metal formulations. Magnetically they won't work, and mechanically
they'll damage the Betamax heads.

What about the last generation high band Betamax machines? I'd guess they
used metal tape?

The Betacam oxide tapes did work very well though :-)

In any case if a Betamax machine comes with a selection of serviceable
tapes, what's the problem for timeshift use ?

Yup. And if the tape is oxide shedding it's no big deal to replace it with
stuff from a VHS cassette. That's what I did with my V2000 machine.

--
*This message has been ROT-13 encrypted twice for extra security *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Urman wrote

I am in the UK and have an old portable electric heater.

The mains flex to the heater is like that to a domestic iron:
woven fabric outer overlaying a rubber (?) outer sheath.
With each of the three leads covered in rubber insulation
and three cords running alongside the three leads.

(1) Is the fabric outer to make the flex resistent to KINKING?

Nope, its just there to keep the 3 inner wires together.

Its a bit more flexible than the more common plastic or rubber outer.

Or is it there for HEAT PROTECTION?

NOpe.

(2) Is the RUBBER used in this sort of flex
especially resistent to TEMPERATURE?

Nope, its what was used before plastic was cheaper.

(3) Are the alternative materials (such as silicone rubber)
used in modern equivalents to this type of lead SUPERIOR
IN ALL RESPECTS to the sort of flex I have described?

Not really, its just cheaper now than rubber.

Urman wrote:

I am in the UK and have an old portable electric heater.

The mains flex to the heater is like that to a domestic iron: woven
fabric outer overlaying a rubber (?) outer sheath. With each of the
three leads covered in rubber insulation and three cords running
alongside the three leads.

(1) Is the fabric outer to make the flex resistent to KINKING?

no, they probably kink more than any other type of flex


Or is
it there for HEAT PROTECTION?

sort of, it offers some protection but not a lot. Modern pvc flexes are
nowhere near as heat tolerant as cotton/rubber.


(2) Is the RUBBER used in this sort of flex especially resistent to
TEMPERATURE?

relative to pvc, yes. Relative to any other rubber, no


(3) Are the alternative materials (such as silicone rubber) used in
modern equivalents to this type of lead SUPERIOR IN ALL RESPECTS to the
sort of flex I have described?

butyl rubber


NT

"Urman" wrote in message
...
I am in the UK and have an old portable electric heater.

The mains flex to the heater is like that to a domestic iron: woven
fabric outer overlaying a rubber (?) outer sheath. With each of the
three leads covered in rubber insulation and three cords running
alongside the three leads.

(1) Is the fabric outer to make the flex resistent to KINKING? Or is
it there for HEAT PROTECTION?

(2) Is the RUBBER used in this sort of flex especially resistent to
TEMPERATURE?

(3) Are the alternative materials (such as silicone rubber) used in
modern equivalents to this type of lead SUPERIOR IN ALL RESPECTS to the
sort of flex I have described?

they dont do that anymore