Having put in a shower than runs from the hot water system we have
decided that the next one will be electric. My wife says she doesn't
want a bulky box on the wall. Anybody know of a system that minimises
the control box? Ideally, just a dial arrangement as with the ordinary
hot water system.

Many thanks

Hi Pete

Pete L wrote:
Having put in a shower than runs from the hot water system we have
decided that the next one will be electric. My wife says she doesn't
want a bulky box on the wall. Anybody know of a system that minimises
the control box? Ideally, just a dial arrangement as with the ordinary
hot water system.

Many thanks

I got a Triton T300Si electric shower a few years ago. This separates
the control panel, which you mount flush to the wall, from the bulky
heater block. The latter might be mounted under the bath, or in our
case on a wall away from the bath. I think you can separate the two
units by up to 2 or 3m.

They aren't cheap but might work for you. See for instance:


http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Manufact...ers/index.html

HTH
Jon N

"Pete L" wrote in message
ups.com...
Having put in a shower than runs from the hot water system we have
decided that the next one will be electric. My wife says she doesn't
want a bulky box on the wall. Anybody know of a system that minimises
the control box? Ideally, just a dial arrangement as with the ordinary
hot water system.

Get a better boiler instead.

Having put in a shower than runs from the hot water system we have
decided that the next one will be electric.

What is the problem with the existing installation?

A stored energy or instantaneous gas heated shower should provide
significantly better performance than an electric shower. It may be better
to fix your existing installation.

Christian.

Thanks for all your suggestions. Ok, I'll come clean - it was the first
shower I have ever put in and I made a bad mistake. I built a new
en-suite bathroom from an existing bedroom. Having found some hot and
cold pipes that were convenient I used them. They originated from the
kitchen directly downstairs. So, the hot water went from the tank in
the airing cupboard down to the kitchen and then back up to my new
shower! After the event I realised that gravity is good but not that
good and consequently the hot water from the shower is very feeble and
makes it almost unusable. I have investigated putting in a shower pump
but it's not feasible so I'm going to take the electric route. The
Triton model mentioned by some of you looks ideal and I'll probably go
for it.

On 2006-10-23 14:30:19 +0100, "Pete L" said:

Thanks for all your suggestions. Ok, I'll come clean - it was the first
shower I have ever put in and I made a bad mistake. I built a new
en-suite bathroom from an existing bedroom. Having found some hot and
cold pipes that were convenient I used them. They originated from the
kitchen directly downstairs. So, the hot water went from the tank in
the airing cupboard down to the kitchen and then back up to my new
shower! After the event I realised that gravity is good but not that
good and consequently the hot water from the shower is very feeble and
makes it almost unusable. I have investigated putting in a shower pump
but it's not feasible so I'm going to take the electric route. The
Triton model mentioned by some of you looks ideal and I'll probably go
for it.

If you were disappointed by what you did, then you will be very
disappointed with an electric shower.

Because of the limitation to around 10kW of instant heating, when the
mains water is cold the flow rate will be very low indeed - way lower
than you are getting now.
To try and address this, electric showers normally come with very small
shower heads and tiny jets to at least give the user some sensation of
pressure. The problem there is then that these are really
uncomfortable because they are effectlively like needle jets and over a
small area of skin.
In order not to be like that, a larger shower head would be needed.
Then you will be back to poor flow.

Even a small combi boiler can do twice as well as this.

The only ways to make a significant improvement to what you have are to either

a) Increase the pipe sizes to the existing gravity shower and run them
more directly to the cylinder. You can run them via the loft if it
helps.

b) Find a way to fit a pump

c) Replace the hot water system with something with about a 30kW
instant rating e.g. combi boiler (large one)

d) Replace HW cylinder with a thermal store and use that to heat mains
water. This can also deliver tens of kW to the mains water.

Trying to use mains water with an inadequate heat source is going to be
disappointing. It's a last resort short cut for those who can't do
anything else, but it would be unlikely to improve what you already
have; much more likely to be worse.

Andy Hall wrote:

Because of the limitation to around 10kW of instant heating, when the
mains water is cold the flow rate will be very low indeed - way lower
than you are getting now.
To try and address this, electric showers normally come with very small
shower heads and tiny jets to at least give the user some sensation of
pressure. The problem there is then that these are really
uncomfortable because they are effectlively like needle jets and over a
small area of skin.

This really is a matter of individual perception. What you describe
as uncomfortable would be described by many people, myself included,
as invigorating.

I prefer my electric shower to my CH gravity fed shower.

On 2006-10-23 19:35:27 +0100, "dcbwhaley" said:


Andy Hall wrote:

Because of the limitation to around 10kW of instant heating, when the
mains water is cold the flow rate will be very low indeed - way lower
than you are getting now.
To try and address this, electric showers normally come with very small
shower heads and tiny jets to at least give the user some sensation of
pressure. The problem there is then that these are really
uncomfortable because they are effectlively like needle jets and over a
small area of skin.

This really is a matter of individual perception. What you describe
as uncomfortable would be described by many people, myself included,
as invigorating.

I prefer my electric shower to my CH gravity fed shower.

If it's only gravity fed under low pressure, that may be the case for
you. Neither are as good as either a pumped or mains pressure one
with adequate heat source.

If it's only gravity fed under low pressure, that may be the case for
you. Neither are as good as either a pumped or mains pressure one
with adequate heat source.

But ultimately the very best shower is a poor substitute for a deep hot
bath with plenty of Radox, a glass of whisky, a plate of biscuits and
a good book :-)

On 2006-10-23 22:38:10 +0100, "dcbwhaley" said:


If it's only gravity fed under low pressure, that may be the case for
you. Neither are as good as either a pumped or mains pressure one
with adequate heat source.

But ultimately the very best shower is a poor substitute for a deep hot
bath with plenty of Radox, a glass of whisky, a plate of biscuits and
a good book :-)

On that I definitely agree with you...

Andy Hall wrote:
If you were disappointed by what you did, then you will be very
disappointed with an electric shower.

Because of the limitation to around 10kW of instant heating, when the
mains water is cold the flow rate will be very low indeed - way lower
than you are getting now.

You don't know what flow rate he is getting now, so you cannot possibly say
that! I get a better flow rate from my 7500 kW shower unit than several
rather poor power showers (NOT gravity fed) I've used in the past. I also
get exactly the temperature I want, straight away - without endless fiddling
around with the controls.

Now I agree that a very good power shower would have a much better flow rate
(and, I would hope, more responsive controls), but (as I said in another
thread) that luxury comes at a price. The cost savings from using gas-heated
water will be more than offset by the increased amount of water you will
use.

To try and address this, electric showers normally come with very
small shower heads and tiny jets to at least give the user some
sensation of pressure. The problem there is then that these are
really uncomfortable because they are effectlively like needle jets and
over
a small area of skin.

You must have unusually sensitive skin. I find such a shower an invigorating
way to start the day!

You don't know what flow rate he is getting now, so you cannot possibly
say that! I get a better flow rate from my 7500 kW shower unit

I should hope so. 7.5MW would give you 50 litres per second. Enough to fill
a bath every 2 seconds!

than several rather poor power showers (NOT gravity fed) I've used in the
past.

Well, if a power shower can't even give you 3 litres per minute, it is
malfunctioning. End of story. Normally speaking, a power shower would give
you around 3-4 times the flow rate of an electric shower. High pressure
pumps are available if that is what you prefer.

I also get exactly the temperature I want, straight away - without
endless fiddling around with the controls.

Clearly you have not used a modern mixer shower. You have two separate
controls. One sets the temperature thermostatically. The other sets the flow
rate. When you finish the shower, the temperature knob stays in the correct
place, ready for use the next time. (Excluding the Mira 415 which annoyingly
requires you to lose your setting after every shower). This is unlike 99% of
electric showers, where one control sets both flow and temperature and you
have to fiddle around endlessly trying to get the temperature right every
time you shower.

You must have unusually sensitive skin. I find such a shower an
invigorating way to start the day!

There's nothing preventing you using a multi pattern head on a power shower.
This will give you a choice everywhere from "soft" child friendly blobbles
to a punishing massage.

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:
You don't know what flow rate he is getting now, so you cannot
possibly say that! I get a better flow rate from my 7500 kW shower
unit

I should hope so. 7.5MW would give you 50 litres per second. Enough
to fill a bath every 2 seconds!

Oh bugger...

than several rather poor power showers (NOT gravity fed) I've used
in the past.

Well, if a power shower can't even give you 3 litres per minute, it is
malfunctioning. End of story. Normally speaking, a power shower would
give you around 3-4 times the flow rate of an electric shower. High
pressure pumps are available if that is what you prefer.

Well, I said they were poor.

I also get exactly the temperature I want, straight away - without
endless fiddling around with the controls.

Clearly you have not used a modern mixer shower. You have two separate
controls. One sets the temperature thermostatically. The other sets
the flow rate.

That's just the problem. I have used those, and they don't seem to work.
Whether they used to work, and have just gone bad, or were bad from the
outset, I have no idea. These were other people's showers, so I felt it rude
to enquire. My typical experience is that the adjustments are exquisitely
sensitive, so that even a tiny change in the position of the temperature
control causes a large deviation in the water temperature. I've also found
that the controls were not properly independent - adjusting one could have
an effect on the other. I've experienced problems with control placements,
so that they were easily knocked. I've also experienced long delays before
the water starts arriving at the right temperature, probably because of long
pipe runs.

This is unlike 99% of electric showers, where one
control sets both flow and temperature and you have to fiddle around
endlessly trying to get the temperature right every time you shower.

And yet my experience is the exact opposite. Switch on, jump in the shower
straight away, perhaps a quick temperature adjustment depending on how I'm
feeling. No possibility of accidentally disturbing controls whilst
showering. Totally trouble-free.

On 2006-10-24 11:31:34 +0100, "Pyriform" said:

Andy Hall wrote:
If you were disappointed by what you did, then you will be very
disappointed with an electric shower.

Because of the limitation to around 10kW of instant heating, when the
mains water is cold the flow rate will be very low indeed - way lower
than you are getting now.

You don't know what flow rate he is getting now, so you cannot possibly
say that!

I can, as a fairly educated guess. It would be highly unlikely that
even the most feeble of gravity showers couldn't manage the 4 litres
per minute of an electric shower.


I get a better flow rate from my 7500 kW shower unit than several
rather poor power showers (NOT gravity fed) I've used in the past.

Really. Where in the garden do you have the 7.5MW power generating
plant? Do the neighbours complain?


I also get exactly the temperature I want, straight away - without
endless fiddling around with the controls.

The same is perfectly well achievable with a mains or pumped shower
having a thermostatic valve.

It is a matter of implementing the plumbin correctly.



Now I agree that a very good power shower would have a much better flow
rate (and, I would hope, more responsive controls), but (as I said in
another thread) that luxury comes at a price.

I don't consider that having a proper shower is a luxury.


The cost savings from using gas-heated water will be more than offset
by the increased amount of water you will use.

In the overall scheme of things this is neither here nor there.


To try and address this, electric showers normally come with very
small shower heads and tiny jets to at least give the user some
sensation of pressure. The problem there is then that these are
really uncomfortable because they are effectlively like needle jets and over
a small area of skin.

You must have unusually sensitive skin. I find such a shower an
invigorating way to start the day!

Not particularly, I just hate these horrible little pencil jet shower
heads where you have to run around in the shower to get wet.
Invigorating is plenty of water and a certain amount of pressure over a
larger area. If I wanted flagellation, there are better ways to
achieve it.

On 2006-10-24 13:51:47 +0100, "Pyriform" said:

Christian McArdle wrote:
You don't know what flow rate he is getting now, so you cannot
possibly say that! I get a better flow rate from my 7500 kW shower
unit

I should hope so. 7.5MW would give you 50 litres per second. Enough
to fill a bath every 2 seconds!

Oh bugger...

than several rather poor power showers (NOT gravity fed) I've used
in the past.

Well, if a power shower can't even give you 3 litres per minute, it is
malfunctioning. End of story. Normally speaking, a power shower would
give you around 3-4 times the flow rate of an electric shower. High
pressure pumps are available if that is what you prefer.

Well, I said they were poor.

I also get exactly the temperature I want, straight away - without
endless fiddling around with the controls.

Clearly you have not used a modern mixer shower. You have two separate
controls. One sets the temperature thermostatically. The other sets
the flow rate.

That's just the problem. I have used those, and they don't seem to
work. Whether they used to work, and have just gone bad, or were bad
from the outset, I have no idea. These were other people's showers, so
I felt it rude to enquire. My typical experience is that the
adjustments are exquisitely sensitive, so that even a tiny change in
the position of the temperature control causes a large deviation in the
water temperature.

This happens if a cheap, non thermostatic valve is used


I've also found that the controls were not properly independent -
adjusting one could have an effect on the other.

This doesn't happen if the cold and hot feeds are independently derived
from the roof storage tank.


I've experienced problems with control placements, so that they were
easily knocked. I've also experienced long delays before the water
starts arriving at the right temperature, probably because of long pipe
runs.

More bad implementation


This is unlike 99% of electric showers, where one
control sets both flow and temperature and you have to fiddle around
endlessly trying to get the temperature right every time you shower.

And yet my experience is the exact opposite. Switch on, jump in the
shower straight away, perhaps a quick temperature adjustment depending
on how I'm feeling. No possibility of accidentally disturbing controls
whilst showering. Totally trouble-free.

Totally disappointing..