I'm shortly to refit our aged bathroom - and have just noticed that there is
no earth bonding at present within the bathroom. There also doesn't seem to
be any earth connection from any cold or hot water pipe back to the earth
terminal by the consumer unit, although there is from the incoming gas pipe
near the gas meter back to the earth terminal by the consumer unit. The
property was built in the 1950's.

As I have to change round some of the pipework, would it be safer to put in
a meter or so of plastic piping to the bath and basin, or continue to use
metal pipes but bond them and the metal fixtures (bath, radiator, pipes)
together ?

At present the bathroom has bath, basin, radiator, all connected with metal
pipes (no bonding), and no other electrical appliances except for ceiling
light with pull chord.

Having looked at the various previous discussions on the subject it looks
rather confusing !

Any advice would be appreciated.

As I have to change round some of the pipework, would it be safer to put
in a meter or so of plastic piping to the bath and basin, or continue to
use metal pipes but bond them and the metal fixtures (bath, radiator,
pipes) together ?

It is safer to use plastic and thus not require bonding.

Christian.

Anon wrote:

As I have to change round some of the pipework, would it be safer to put in
a meter or so of plastic piping to the bath and basin, or continue to use
metal pipes but bond them and the metal fixtures (bath, radiator, pipes)
together ?

Either, but you'd have to make virtually all the pipework in the room
plastic in order to dispense with the supplementary bonding. Short
copper tails to taps don't need bonding if the rest of the pipework is
plastic.

At present the bathroom has bath, basin, radiator, all connected with metal
pipes (no bonding), and no other electrical appliances except for ceiling
light with pull chord.

Pull chord - very musical :-). Where are the light and switch in
relation to the bath and how high above the floor?

Having looked at the various previous discussions on the subject it looks
rather confusing !

Quite simple really: bond together with 4 mm^2 wire all the separate
incoming metal pipes, the bath (if metal) and the electrical earths of
any circuits supplying equipment in the defined Zones. Also bond any
metal waste pipes. The radiator itself doesn't need bonding, only the
metal pipework to it (unless it's fixed to a steel building structure -
unlikely in this case).

The Zones end once you are 3 m away (horizontally) from the bath.
Vertically the Zones stop at 3 m above the floor over and near the bath,
but at 2.25 m above the floor once you're more than 0.6 m horizontally
away from the bath. So the light circuit won't need bonding if it's
more than 0.6 m away from the bath edge and higher than 2.25 m above
floor level.

Bathroom supplementary bonding 'stands alone' and does not need to be
connected to the main earth terminal (in or near the consumer unit).
The rising water main (wherever located) should be bonded to the main
earth terminal in 10 mm^2, just downstream of the main stop-cock (this
is main bonding, like on the gas service).

HTH
--
Andy

Anon wrote:

I'm shortly to refit our aged bathroom - and have just noticed that there is
no earth bonding at present within the bathroom.

Doesn't need it - it only needs equipotential bonding. It's much the
same inside the room, but it doesn't have to be run back to an earth
point.

Read your On-site Guide for details (if you haven't got one, buy one)

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 17:23:08 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

As I have to change round some of the pipework, would it be safer to put
in a meter or so of plastic piping to the bath and basin, or continue to
use metal pipes but bond them and the metal fixtures (bath, radiator,
pipes) together ?

It is safer to use plastic and thus not require bonding.

Christian.

Are you lot sure about this?

I mean it is obviously a valuable opportunity to make the public do
something absolutely pointless at serious cost, that has been missed!


There must be a Part P (Plastic) somewhere.

Andy Wade wrote:
Anon wrote:

As I have to change round some of the pipework, would it be safer to
put in a meter or so of plastic piping to the bath and basin, or
continue to use metal pipes but bond them and the metal fixtures
(bath, radiator, pipes) together ?


Either, but you'd have to make virtually all the pipework in the room
plastic in order to dispense with the supplementary bonding. Short
copper tails to taps don't need bonding if the rest of the pipework is
plastic.

At present the bathroom has bath, basin, radiator, all connected with
metal pipes (no bonding), and no other electrical appliances except
for ceiling light with pull chord.


Pull chord - very musical :-). Where are the light and switch in
relation to the bath and how high above the floor?

Having looked at the various previous discussions on the subject it
looks rather confusing !


Quite simple really: bond together with 4 mm^2 wire all the separate
incoming metal pipes, the bath (if metal) and the electrical earths of
any circuits supplying equipment in the defined Zones. Also bond any
metal waste pipes. The radiator itself doesn't need bonding, only the
metal pipework to it (unless it's fixed to a steel building structure -
unlikely in this case).

The Zones end once you are 3 m away (horizontally) from the bath.
Vertically the Zones stop at 3 m above the floor over and near the bath,
but at 2.25 m above the floor once you're more than 0.6 m horizontally
away from the bath. So the light circuit won't need bonding if it's
more than 0.6 m away from the bath edge and higher than 2.25 m above
floor level.

Bathroom supplementary bonding 'stands alone' and does not need to be
connected to the main earth terminal (in or near the consumer unit). The
rising water main (wherever located) should be bonded to the main earth
terminal in 10 mm^2, just downstream of the main stop-cock (this is main
bonding, like on the gas service).

HTH

Is extra bonding i.e. parallel bonding connections (Belts and Braces)
allowed by the regs?

Steve

Steve wrote:

Is extra bonding i.e. parallel bonding connections (Belts and Braces)
allowed by the regs?

It's not disallowed. What did you have in mind?

--
Andy

"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
Anon wrote:

As I have to change round some of the pipework, would it be safer to put
in a meter or so of plastic piping to the bath and basin, or continue to
use metal pipes but bond them and the metal fixtures (bath, radiator,
pipes) together ?

Either, but you'd have to make virtually all the pipework in the room
plastic in order to dispense with the supplementary bonding. Short copper
tails to taps don't need bonding if the rest of the pipework is plastic.

At present the bathroom has bath, basin, radiator, all connected with
metal pipes (no bonding), and no other electrical appliances except for
ceiling light with pull chord.

Pull chord - very musical :-). Where are the light and switch in relation
to the bath and how high above the floor?

Having looked at the various previous discussions on the subject it looks
rather confusing !

Quite simple really: bond together with 4 mm^2 wire all the separate
incoming metal pipes, the bath (if metal) and the electrical earths of any
circuits supplying equipment in the defined Zones. Also bond any metal
waste pipes. The radiator itself doesn't need bonding, only the metal
pipework to it (unless it's fixed to a steel building structure - unlikely
in this case).

The Zones end once you are 3 m away (horizontally) from the bath.
Vertically the Zones stop at 3 m above the floor over and near the bath,
but at 2.25 m above the floor once you're more than 0.6 m horizontally
away from the bath. So the light circuit won't need bonding if it's more
than 0.6 m away from the bath edge and higher than 2.25 m above floor
level.

Bathroom supplementary bonding 'stands alone' and does not need to be
connected to the main earth terminal (in or near the consumer unit). The
rising water main (wherever located) should be bonded to the main earth
terminal in 10 mm^2, just downstream of the main stop-cock (this is main
bonding, like on the gas service).

HTH
--
Andy

Thanks for that Andy, the light switch is away from zone 1. I wonder how
effective the earth bond is to the gas pipe - transco replaced the pipe from
the meter with a plastic one last year !

Andy Wade wrote:
Steve wrote:

Is extra bonding i.e. parallel bonding connections (Belts and Braces)
allowed by the regs?


It's not disallowed. What did you have in mind?


Well, the bathroom which I did (pre part P) has all pipes bonded already
but under the kitchen sink there is also bonding of the pipes and sink.

I am soon to fit a new kitchen and would want to continue with this
arrangement, although as the plumbing is all copper it might not be
strictly necessary. I can not see any problem with additional bonding,
only advantage hence 'Belts and Braces' but knowing what regulations can
be like, I thought that I might fall foul of some diktat that does not
allow it ;-)

I think it is time for me to invest in an up to date book covering these
sort of things. Any recommendations?

Steve.

Thanks for that Andy, the light switch is away from zone 1. I wonder how
effective the earth bond is to the gas pipe - transco replaced the pipe from
the meter with a plastic one last year !

A plastic pipe isn't an "extraneous metal part" and can't "introduce a
potential" so the effectiveness of the bonding isn't relevent. Apart
from bathrooms only metal pipes that leave the house need bonding.

"dcbwhaley" wrote in message
oups.com...


Thanks for that Andy, the light switch is away from zone 1. I wonder how
effective the earth bond is to the gas pipe - transco replaced the pipe
from
the meter with a plastic one last year !

A plastic pipe isn't an "extraneous metal part" and can't "introduce a
potential" so the effectiveness of the bonding isn't relevent. Apart
from bathrooms only metal pipes that leave the house need bonding.

pg25 of the blue OSG

4.3 Main Equipotential Bonding - Plastic services

There is no requirement to main bond an incoming service where both service
pipe and the pipework within the installation are both of plastic. Where
there is a plastic incoming service and a matal installaition within the
premises, main bonding must be carried out, the bonding being applied on the
customer's side of amy meter, main stop cock or insulating insert

As the gas pipework withing the house is metal then I would suggest main
bonding is still required in this case.

Adam

test, sorry

ARWadsworth wrote:

"dcbwhaley" wrote in message
oups.com...


Thanks for that Andy, the light switch is away from zone 1. I wonder how
effective the earth bond is to the gas pipe - transco replaced the pipe
from
the meter with a plastic one last year !

A plastic pipe isn't an "extraneous metal part" and can't "introduce a
potential" so the effectiveness of the bonding isn't relevent. Apart
from bathrooms only metal pipes that leave the house need bonding.

pg25 of the blue OSG

4.3 Main Equipotential Bonding - Plastic services

There is no requirement to main bond an incoming service where both service
pipe and the pipework within the installation are both of plastic. Where
there is a plastic incoming service and a matal installaition within the
premises, main bonding must be carried out, the bonding being applied on the
customer's side of amy meter, main stop cock or insulating insert

As the gas pipework withing the house is metal then I would suggest main
bonding is still required in this case.

Adam

sorry, another test

Andy Dingley wrote:
Anon wrote:

I'm shortly to refit our aged bathroom - and have just noticed that there is
no earth bonding at present within the bathroom.

Doesn't need it - it only needs equipotential bonding. It's much the
same inside the room, but it doesn't have to be run back to an earth
point.

Read your On-site Guide for details (if you haven't got one, buy one)

test three, very sorry

Steve wrote:
Andy Wade wrote:
Anon wrote:

As I have to change round some of the pipework, would it be safer to
put in a meter or so of plastic piping to the bath and basin, or
continue to use metal pipes but bond them and the metal fixtures
(bath, radiator, pipes) together ?


Either, but you'd have to make virtually all the pipework in the room
plastic in order to dispense with the supplementary bonding. Short
copper tails to taps don't need bonding if the rest of the pipework is
plastic.

At present the bathroom has bath, basin, radiator, all connected with
metal pipes (no bonding), and no other electrical appliances except
for ceiling light with pull chord.


Pull chord - very musical :-). Where are the light and switch in
relation to the bath and how high above the floor?

Having looked at the various previous discussions on the subject it
looks rather confusing !


Quite simple really: bond together with 4 mm^2 wire all the separate
incoming metal pipes, the bath (if metal) and the electrical earths of
any circuits supplying equipment in the defined Zones. Also bond any
metal waste pipes. The radiator itself doesn't need bonding, only the
metal pipework to it (unless it's fixed to a steel building structure -
unlikely in this case).

The Zones end once you are 3 m away (horizontally) from the bath.
Vertically the Zones stop at 3 m above the floor over and near the bath,
but at 2.25 m above the floor once you're more than 0.6 m horizontally
away from the bath. So the light circuit won't need bonding if it's
more than 0.6 m away from the bath edge and higher than 2.25 m above
floor level.

Bathroom supplementary bonding 'stands alone' and does not need to be
connected to the main earth terminal (in or near the consumer unit). The
rising water main (wherever located) should be bonded to the main earth
terminal in 10 mm^2, just downstream of the main stop-cock (this is main
bonding, like on the gas service).

HTH

Is extra bonding i.e. parallel bonding connections (Belts and Braces)
allowed by the regs?

Steve

Steve wrote:

Well, the bathroom which I did (pre part P) has all pipes bonded already
but under the kitchen sink there is also bonding of the pipes and sink.

I am soon to fit a new kitchen and would want to continue with this
arrangement, although as the plumbing is all copper it might not be
strictly necessary. I can not see any problem with additional bonding,
only advantage hence 'Belts and Braces' but knowing what regulations can
be like, I thought that I might fall foul of some diktat that does not
allow it ;-)

Supplementary bonding in a kitchen isn't required at all, but it's
certainly not forbidden. If the incoming water main rises in the
kitchen, as they often do of course, then it needs main bonding to the
main earth terminal (10 mm^2).

I think it is time for me to invest in an up to date book covering these
sort of things. Any recommendations?

The IET On-Site Guide is the usual recommendation:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/IEE-Site-Gui...079047?ie=UTF8

The EGBR is also useful:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Electricians...079047?ie=UTF8

--
Andy