I want to make a fireproof box in which to charge and transport Lithium
Polymer batteries, which can explode or catch fire.

A friend is giving me some offcuts of 6mm asbestos substitute.

But what can I glue it together with?
Is there a fireproof glue?
Or would screws work?
--
Chris

The message ]
from Chris ] contains these words:

I want to make a fireproof box in which to charge and transport Lithium
Polymer batteries, which can explode or catch fire.

Why not go to Smiths and spend £8 on a metal filing box?

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

In article , Guy King
writes
The message ]
from Chris ] contains these words:

I want to make a fireproof box in which to charge and transport Lithium
Polymer batteries, which can explode or catch fire.

Why not go to Smiths and spend £8 on a metal filing box?

Metal conducts electricity.
--
Chris

The message ]
from Chris ] contains these words:

I want to make a fireproof box in which to charge and transport Lithium
Polymer batteries, which can explode or catch fire.

Why not go to Smiths and spend £8 on a metal filing box?

Metal conducts electricity.

And? Most people could probably manage to slip a bit of sleeving over a
battery terminal. Or perhaps put an ice-cream tub in the bottom.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Chris wrote:
I want to make a fireproof box in which to charge and transport
Lithium Polymer batteries, which can explode or catch fire.

A friend is giving me some offcuts of 6mm asbestos substitute.

But what can I glue it together with?
Is there a fireproof glue?
Or would screws work?

So make a wooden one and put sand around them.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Chris wrote:

I want to make a fireproof box in which to charge and transport Lithium
Polymer batteries, which can explode or catch fire.

Here's a fairly standard pattern for 1.4S transport (e.g. rocket
motors)


Mil surplus ammo box, such as a .50 cal

Plasma cut big holes in the side, but no more that 2" diameter across
any hole (regularly spaced hexagons are nice). This is for blast
venting, which may or may not be significant to your situation.

Line the inside with plasterboard, glued in place with Gripfill. Use
two layers and staggered corner joints if you're trying to get some
insulation against external fire too.

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Chris wrote:
I want to make a fireproof box in which to charge and transport
Lithium Polymer batteries, which can explode or catch fire.

A friend is giving me some offcuts of 6mm asbestos substitute.

But what can I glue it together with?
Is there a fireproof glue?
Or would screws work?

So make a wooden one and put sand around them.

Sand? - he wants to use it to charge the batteries in, he can't have a
charger in sand!

To the OP, just use normal PVA glue, no it's not fireproof but it's not
highly combustible neither, any fire will be quelled by the asbestos,
although I think you are going to extrordinary lengths for no reason.

Chris wrote:

I want to make a fireproof box in which to charge and transport Lithium
Polymer batteries, which can explode or catch fire.

A friend is giving me some offcuts of 6mm asbestos substitute.

But what can I glue it together with?
Is there a fireproof glue?
Or would screws work?

Fireproof safes are made with 3 layers. Inner and outer layers are
metal, and between them is poured an insulating hydrate, such as
gypsum. This has a 3 stage action. First it insulates. Then as it gets
hotter it dehydrates, giving off steam, which cools it down. Finally,
once all dehydrated, its just an insulator again. You could use your
asbestos as the inner liner.

Glue isnt going to survive any fires. Screws will conduct the heat
right in, plus all the gaps will not keep fire out. You need a welded
metal box. Otherwise what youve got isnt really fireproof.

If you want a zero cost option, one metal box inside another, sat on a
brick to keep them spaced apart, will give some fire resistance, but
not a great amount.


NT

On 5 Oct 2006 16:44:29 -0700, wrote:

Fireproof safes are made with 3 layers. Inner and outer layers are
metal, and between them is poured an insulating hydrate, such as
gypsum. This has a 3 stage action. First it insulates. Then as it gets
hotter it dehydrates, giving off steam, which cools it down. Finally,
once all dehydrated, its just an insulator again. You could use your
asbestos as the inner liner.

A few years ago at the place I worked there was a significant fire (not me,
hones guv). We had stuff in fireproof safes but unfortunately one bloke had
put some key backup tapes into a chipboard cupboard near the server. The
next day he was a tad nervous about having to tell the boss what he'd done.

When we checked, everything in the "fireproof" safe was trashed. Tape
shells had melted, paper was charred. In the chipboard cupboard everything
was fine. One of the firemen said that they find that quite often. The
phenolic glue in the chipboard boils off and cools the interior. As the
wood starts to char it turns into fluffy carbon ash that acts as an
insulator.

The message
from Steve Firth contains these words:

When we checked, everything in the "fireproof" safe was trashed. Tape
shells had melted, paper was charred. In the chipboard cupboard everything
was fine. One of the firemen said that they find that quite often. The
phenolic glue in the chipboard boils off and cools the interior. As the
wood starts to char it turns into fluffy carbon ash that acts as an
insulator.

My FiL was trying to burn some old kitchen carcasses[1] the other day -
hated it, they just wouldn't burn without constant intervention to poke
them and break them up.

[1] Chipboard furniture carcasses, not dead pigs/cow/hens etc.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Chris wrote:
In article , Guy King
writes
The message ]
from Chris ] contains these words:

I want to make a fireproof box in which to charge and transport Lithium
Polymer batteries, which can explode or catch fire.

Why not go to Smiths and spend £8 on a metal filing box?

Metal conducts electricity.

LINE it with fireproof board epoxied on.

Phil L wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Chris wrote:
I want to make a fireproof box in which to charge and transport
Lithium Polymer batteries, which can explode or catch fire.

A friend is giving me some offcuts of 6mm asbestos substitute.

But what can I glue it together with?
Is there a fireproof glue?
Or would screws work?
So make a wooden one and put sand around them.

Sand? - he wants to use it to charge the batteries in, he can't have a
charger in sand!

To the OP, just use normal PVA glue, no it's not fireproof but it's not
highly combustible neither, any fire will be quelled by the asbestos,
although I think you are going to extrordinary lengths for no reason.


Yup. Get a ceramic cooking pot.

In article , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Chris wrote:
I want to make a fireproof box in which to charge and transport
Lithium Polymer batteries, which can explode or catch fire.

Get a ceramic cooking pot.

Good idea. I'll do that. Thanks.
--
Chris

"Chris" ] wrote in message
]...
I want to make a fireproof box in which to charge and transport Lithium
Polymer batteries, which can explode or catch fire.

A friend is giving me some offcuts of 6mm asbestos substitute.

But what can I glue it together with?
Is there a fireproof glue?
Or would screws work?
--
Chris

High temp silicone sealant (example at
http://www.fluesystems.com/sundries/info/flexseal.htm ) is readily available
at builders merchants

Peter K

Chris wrote:
In article , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Chris wrote:
I want to make a fireproof box in which to charge and transport
Lithium Polymer batteries, which can explode or catch fire.

Get a ceramic cooking pot.

Good idea. I'll do that. Thanks.

I charge my LIPOS in flower pots. Carry em in my pockets.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:

I charge my LIPOS in flower pots. Carry em in my pockets.

20 years ago, a guy at work had an interesting accident.
Staff had relatively recently been issued with pagers,
and they were powered by Ni-Cds. One day he walked into the
door frame, but thought nothing more of it for a few seconds,
until the pager in his pocket burst into flames. He had broken
the pager in the collision with the door frame, which had
shorted out the battery, and Ni-Cds can deliver quite a punch
when angry...

--
Andrew Gabriel

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:
I charge my LIPOS in flower pots. Carry em in my pockets.

20 years ago, a guy at work had an interesting accident.
Staff had relatively recently been issued with pagers,
and they were powered by Ni-Cds. One day he walked into the
door frame, but thought nothing more of it for a few seconds,
until the pager in his pocket burst into flames. He had broken
the pager in the collision with the door frame, which had
shorted out the battery, and Ni-Cds can deliver quite a punch
when angry...

Yup. I've had one catch fire. Also seen a car battery explode.

Never had a LIPO go yet, though.

On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 12:35:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Never had a LIPO go yet, though.

Obviously you're not buying from Sony then.

Steve Firth wrote:
On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 12:35:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Never had a LIPO go yet, though.

Obviously you're not buying from Sony then.

Quite right. Enerland mainly, via retail outlets. Also occasionally
Kokam, but they are ****e. And E-tech.

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:
I charge my LIPOS in flower pots. Carry em in my pockets.

20 years ago, a guy at work had an interesting accident.
Staff had relatively recently been issued with pagers,
and they were powered by Ni-Cds. One day he walked into the
door frame, but thought nothing more of it for a few seconds,
until the pager in his pocket burst into flames. He had broken
the pager in the collision with the door frame, which had
shorted out the battery, and Ni-Cds can deliver quite a punch
when angry...

We had a visiting photographer have a similar problem, he put an empty
..22 case in his pocket, straight accross a spare flash pack, the output
was enough to set a live one off when it was tried too!

On 07 Oct 2006 08:54:43 GMT, andrew@a17 (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:

I charge my LIPOS in flower pots. Carry em in my pockets.

20 years ago, a guy at work had an interesting accident.
Staff had relatively recently been issued with pagers,
and they were powered by Ni-Cds. One day he walked into the
door frame, but thought nothing more of it for a few seconds,
until the pager in his pocket burst into flames. He had broken
the pager in the collision with the door frame, which had
shorted out the battery, and Ni-Cds can deliver quite a punch
when angry...

I think it was the HSE (could have been the IEE?) in the late 80's
that reported problems with early lithium cells, tales of totally
destroyed labs and workshops because they had somehow got charged due
to failure of blocking diodes or the absence of them altogether. Made
for pretty frightening reading.


--

Matt wrote:
On 07 Oct 2006 08:54:43 GMT, andrew@a17 (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:
I charge my LIPOS in flower pots. Carry em in my pockets.
20 years ago, a guy at work had an interesting accident.
Staff had relatively recently been issued with pagers,
and they were powered by Ni-Cds. One day he walked into the
door frame, but thought nothing more of it for a few seconds,
until the pager in his pocket burst into flames. He had broken
the pager in the collision with the door frame, which had
shorted out the battery, and Ni-Cds can deliver quite a punch
when angry...

I think it was the HSE (could have been the IEE?) in the late 80's
that reported problems with early lithium cells, tales of totally
destroyed labs and workshops because they had somehow got charged due
to failure of blocking diodes or the absence of them altogether. Made
for pretty frightening reading.


Lithium cells can and do explode very dramatically and burn rather well.

There have been plenty of incidents in the RC fraternity where we use
extremely low impedance cells right at the limit. With multi-use
chargers that are easy to set wrong.

The most chilling was a guy who left one on the front seat of his car on
a hot California day..it wasn't even connected, but the heat inside the
car was enough to cause it to deform and short out, and it burnt the
whole car out.

Mostly the 'lithium ion' celsl (incorrectly named) use thick steel
jackets to prevent this, but are too heavy. And can explode. The
'polymer' cells just swell and pop. In low current applications the
cells generally come with circuitry inside to limit peak currents and to
disconnect them if the voltage gets too high on charge or too low on
discharge. On model aircraft hese introduce too much weight and
loss,with currents on big models often exceeding 100A, and 20-50A being
typical, we have to run them 'bare'

Needless to say a failing motor or a props trike can cause the whole
thing to pop and often catch fire.

However its no worse really that having a model and a car full of
methanol and nitromethane mix...