I recently hand dug a foundation trench - first time for many years and
the last if I can help it :-(

Anyway I tried one of those American type shovels - a semi pointed pan
and a 5' straight stale with no 'T' handle. As far as digging can be
fun, it really was a joy to use and almost effortless in comparison
with the traditional short square UK type shovel.

Less bending of the back, it went through the ground easier, and when
you hit a stone it does not send the vibration through your wrist which
is on top of the handle.

Has anyone else used these and found them to be better? I wondered why
they are not more commonly used in the UK.

The only downside was in squaring the bottom of the trench, but there
are versions with a square pan.

dg

"dg" wrote in message
ups.com...
I recently hand dug a foundation trench - first time for many years and
the last if I can help it :-(

Anyway I tried one of those American type shovels - a semi pointed pan
and a 5' straight stale with no 'T' handle. As far as digging can be
fun, it really was a joy to use and almost effortless in comparison
with the traditional short square UK type shovel.

Less bending of the back, it went through the ground easier, and when
you hit a stone it does not send the vibration through your wrist which
is on top of the handle.

Has anyone else used these and found them to be better? I wondered why
they are not more commonly used in the UK.

The only downside was in squaring the bottom of the trench, but there
are versions with a square pan.

dg


They are good and used in Ireland too. I have seen them for sale in focus so
they are aroudn in the UK.

"dg" wrote
Has anyone else used these and found them to be better? I wondered why
they are not more commonly used in the UK.

The only downside was in squaring the bottom of the trench, but there
are versions with a square pan.



I once watched a 6 foot 8 builder expertly square up the bottom of a
footings with a traditional English shovel designed for a 5 foot Victorian
(the standard size it seems). Like a Warner Brothers Toon animation it was.
Funnily enough he was always moaning about his back......

H

HLAH wrote:
"dg" wrote
Has anyone else used these and found them to be better? I wondered why
they are not more commonly used in the UK.

The only downside was in squaring the bottom of the trench, but there
are versions with a square pan.



I once watched a 6 foot 8 builder expertly square up the bottom of a
footings with a traditional English shovel designed for a 5 foot Victorian
(the standard size it seems). Like a Warner Brothers Toon animation it was.
Funnily enough he was always moaning about his back......

H

The "traditional short square UK type shovel" isn't for heavy digging
it's for muck shifting or for loose stuff like gravel etc.
For digging you need the tapered builders type shovel which is much
easier than a square shovel or a spade. In conjunction of course with a
pick.
Don't know how this compares in use with an Irish shovel but I'd have
a go if I had one as I've a lot of faith in old traditional tools.
Bought a garden 'azada' - the adze shaped mattock thingy which field
workers use in Spain and Portugal (and lots of other places I guess).
It's really very useful and a pleasure to use. Different from a mattock
as the blade curves in like an adze and permits a long scraping stroke
rather than a short chop. These are also used for heavy digging
doubling up as pick and shovel.

cheers
Jacob

The message .com
from "normanwisdom" contains these words:

Bought a garden 'azada' - the adze shaped mattock thingy which field
workers use in Spain and Portugal (and lots of other places I guess).

I used my brother's one of them to shave the clay in the bottom of some
foundations. Much the best tool for the job.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Anyway I tried one of those American type shovels - a semi pointed pan
and a 5' straight stale with no 'T' handle. As far as digging can be
fun, it really was a joy to use and almost effortless in comparison
with the traditional short square UK type shovel.

I can't say I've ever associated the shape with a country. I wouldn't dream
of using anything other than what you describe as an "American" shovel for
digging deep holes.

Christian.

HLAH wrote:
"dg" wrote
Has anyone else used these and found them to be better? I wondered why
they are not more commonly used in the UK.

The only downside was in squaring the bottom of the trench, but there
are versions with a square pan.



I once watched a 6 foot 8 builder expertly square up the bottom of a
footings with a traditional English shovel designed for a 5 foot Victorian
(the standard size it seems). Like a Warner Brothers Toon animation it was.
Funnily enough he was always moaning about his back......

H


bought mine from homebase, saves a lot of back ache.

Paul

normanwisdom wrote:
Bought a garden 'azada' - the adze shaped mattock thingy which field
workers use in Spain and Portugal (and lots of other places I guess).
It's really very useful and a pleasure to use. Different from a mattock
as the blade curves in like an adze and permits a long scraping stroke
rather than a short chop. These are also used for heavy digging
doubling up as pick and shovel.


I use a mattock for breaking up the soil then a spade or shovel to move
it. Much easier in my opinion.

The message .com
from contains these words:

normanwisdom wrote:
Bought a garden 'azada' - the adze shaped mattock thingy which field
workers use in Spain and Portugal (and lots of other places I guess).
It's really very useful and a pleasure to use. Different from a mattock
as the blade curves in like an adze and permits a long scraping stroke
rather than a short chop. These are also used for heavy digging
doubling up as pick and shovel.


I use a mattock for breaking up the soil then a spade or shovel to move
it. Much easier in my opinion.

I have had to do quite a lot of manual excavation over the years in clay
that has a good proportion of stone imbedded in it. I have never used an
azada but I suspect that it would be too light to make much of a
impression on such subsoil.

Even my mattock was too much like hard work at times so the technique I
adopted to excavate when replacing the floor in my barn (30' x 18' and
originally sloping) was to take a garden fork and drive it into the
ground using a sledge hammer on the footbar and lever the clods out of
the ground.

--
Roger Chapman