I am putting in an en-suite with a vent fan into a bedroom where I am
making a 1 metre wide partition along one wall.
Will be moving the two single sockets (for bedside radio/lights) into
the new stud partition, the old cables were left long enough to just
move the sockets when it was re-wired 8 years ago. I will also need to
wire in a new light and an extractor.
Am I now forbidden to do any of this work or is it possible to do it and
get it certified?
If this is so, will it be difficult to get someone and would the cost
be prohibitive?

I had to apply for Building Regs (due to the ventilation and drainage)
and they have sent me a lot of papers including "Part P"!

Thanks

"Peter Hemmings" wrote in message
. uk...
I am putting in an en-suite with a vent fan into a bedroom where I am
making a 1 metre wide partition along one wall.
Will be moving the two single sockets (for bedside radio/lights) into the
new stud partition, the old cables were left long enough to just move the
sockets when it was re-wired 8 years ago. I will also need to wire in a
new light and an extractor.
Am I now forbidden to do any of this work or is it possible to do it and
get it certified?
If this is so, will it be difficult to get someone and would the cost be
prohibitive?

I had to apply for Building Regs (due to the ventilation and drainage) and
they have sent me a lot of papers including "Part P"!

Thanks

I can't understand what all the panic is about. Unless you advertise the
fact you have done something - who is going to know? People make such a
fuss. If it is in your own home are you that bothered and who would ever be
there to take everything apart and stick you in prison!
You need to apply a bit of common sense sometimes.
Just do it. if you haven't the first clue about electrical work then use
the Yellow Pages and get an electrician.

If you are 105% confident that you can do the job safely set your
calendar back two years and go ahead and do it. I doubt if you will
get a dawn raid by the local building inspector to check your wiring.

But if you are not so confident then do yourself a favour and get a
qualified electrician to do it.

Dave

Peter Hemmings wrote:
I am putting in an en-suite with a vent fan into a bedroom where I am
making a 1 metre wide partition along one wall.
Will be moving the two single sockets (for bedside radio/lights) into
the new stud partition, the old cables were left long enough to just
move the sockets when it was re-wired 8 years ago. I will also need to
wire in a new light and an extractor.
Am I now forbidden to do any of this work or is it possible to do it and
get it certified?
If this is so, will it be difficult to get someone and would the cost
be prohibitive?



Can't you split the job in two:
(i) install the wiring while its still a bedroom, no need for inspection
(ii) install the partition.

john2

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
james wrote:

"Peter Hemmings" wrote in message
. uk...
I am putting in an en-suite with a vent fan into a bedroom where I am
making a 1 metre wide partition along one wall.
Will be moving the two single sockets (for bedside radio/lights)
into the new stud partition, the old cables were left long enough
to just move the sockets when it was re-wired 8 years ago. I will
also need to wire in a new light and an extractor.
Am I now forbidden to do any of this work or is it possible to do it
and get it certified?
If this is so, will it be difficult to get someone and would the
cost be prohibitive?

I had to apply for Building Regs (due to the ventilation and
drainage) and they have sent me a lot of papers including "Part P"!

Thanks

I can't understand what all the panic is about. Unless you advertise
the fact you have done something - who is going to know? People make
such a fuss. If it is in your own home are you that bothered and who
would ever be there to take everything apart and stick you in prison!
You need to apply a bit of common sense sometimes.
Just do it. if you haven't the first clue about electrical work then
use the Yellow Pages and get an electrician.

I agree in principle, but it may be a bit more complicated than this. Since
the overall job is subject to building regs, the BCO is likely to want to
see the electrical certificate before issuing the completion notice. This
was certainly the case when we converted part of a garage into a bathroom.

In my view, Part P is handled very badly - and probably illegally - by many
Building Control departments. My understanding is that getting the
electrical work inspected should be covered by the fee paid for building
regs approval. However, my local BC department is not geared up to do
electrical inspections and insists that it is done by a third party -
inevitably at additional expense for DIY-ers. I'm not sure how they get away
with this.
--
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Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

All it requires is a Building Notice to your local council Building
Control dept, same as you did for the ventilation and drainage.

Part P doesn't forbid anything (although many people will tell you
otherwise) - it just makes a lot of electrical work "controlled work",
meaning you must notify the council building control dept OR be part P
approved and exempt from notifying the council.

Roger Mills wrote:

However, my local BC department is not geared up to do
electrical inspections and insists that it is done by a third party -
inevitably at additional expense for DIY-ers. I'm not sure how they get away
with this.

I would be inclined to direct them to page 11, section 1.26 of
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADP_2006.pdf



--
Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

However, my local BC department is not geared up to do electrical
inspections and insists that it is done by a third party - inevitably
at additional expense for DIY-ers. I'm not sure how they get away with
this.


I would be inclined to direct them to page 11, section 1.26 of
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADP_2006.pdf

That's a very interesting paragraph!
Does anyone know if any authorities carry out the tests?

I have not asked mine yet!






Thanks

Can't you split the job in two:
(i) install the wiring while its still a bedroom, no need for inspection
(ii) install the partition.

The en-suite will be required to have lighting and the extractor fan, so
wouldn't pass inspection without electrics.

Christian.

John Rumm wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

However, my local BC department is not geared up to do
electrical inspections and insists that it is done by a third party -
inevitably at additional expense for DIY-ers. I'm not sure how they get away
with this.

I would be inclined to direct them to page 11, section 1.26 of
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADP_2006.pdf



--
Cheers,

John.

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Thanks John :-)

local BCO came today and said fine for doing the wiring myself but I
would have to pay for testing.

Guess who i'll be phoning tomorrow !!!! politeley of course

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Roger Mills wrote:

However, my local BC department is not geared up to do
electrical inspections and insists that it is done by a third
party -
inevitably at additional expense for DIY-ers. I'm not sure how
they get away
with this.

I would be inclined to direct them to page 11, section 1.26 of
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADP_2006.pdf



--
Cheers,

John.

Odd but that link is coming up with a blank page for me - am I
paranoid or has left hook Prescott pulled the page???

AWEM

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 17:03:30 +0100, Peter Hemmings wrote:

John Rumm wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

However, my local BC department is not geared up to do electrical
inspections and insists that it is done by a third party - inevitably
at additional expense for DIY-ers. I'm not sure how they get away with
this.


I would be inclined to direct them to page 11, section 1.26 of
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADP_2006.pdf

That's a very interesting paragraph!
Does anyone know if any authorities carry out the tests?

I have not asked mine yet!


I've so far only had dealings with the LB Islington on this matter. Their
policy is that they will test and certify the electrics, as part of the
overall inspection process. If the electrics and all other works are OK
then they will issue a completion certificate. You will not, however, be
issued with a "Test and Inspect" report or any other paperwork for the
electrics.


--
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The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
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Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 17:22:17 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

Can't you split the job in two:
(i) install the wiring while its still a bedroom, no need for inspection
(ii) install the partition.

The en-suite will be required to have lighting and the extractor fan, so
wouldn't pass inspection without electrics.

Christian.

And, as of this year, the ventilator and waste pipes are now within the
scope of building control.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 18:20:29 +0100, Andrew Mawson wrote:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADP_2006.pdf

Odd but that link is coming up with a blank page for me - am I
paranoid or has left hook Prescott pulled the page???

I get asked what to do with it as it is a .pdf. I can save it to disc
(4.8 Megish) but my ancient OS/2 Adobe Acrobat reader can't make sense of
it and refuses to show anything.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Dave Liquorice wrote:

I get asked what to do with it as it is a .pdf. I can save it to disc
(4.8 Megish) but my ancient OS/2 Adobe Acrobat reader can't make sense of
it and refuses to show anything.

You ought to try the following
http://www.foxitsoftware.com/
There's plenty of free versions, it's a teensy weensy application that
fires up instantly unlike Adopy bloatware rubbish.

--
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The message om
from "Dave Liquorice" contains these words:

I get asked what to do with it as it is a .pdf. I can save it to disc
(4.8 Megish) but my ancient OS/2 Adobe Acrobat reader can't make sense of
it and refuses to show anything.


Well, for what it's worth it says

1.26 The building control body may choose to carry out the inspection
and testing itself, or to contract out some or all of the work to a
specialist body which will then carry out the work on its behalf.
Building control bodies will carry out the necessary inspection and
testing at their expense, not at the housholders' expense.

I've a sneaky feeling that they'll say "Ah, it says "Building control
bodies will
carry out the necessary inspection and testing at their expense, not at
the housholders' expense." but we're not carrying it out, our
subcontractor is and they're charging you, not us.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 19:23:37 UTC, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)"

wrote:

Dave Liquorice wrote:

I get asked what to do with it as it is a .pdf. I can save it to disc
(4.8 Megish) but my ancient OS/2 Adobe Acrobat reader can't make sense of
it and refuses to show anything.

You ought to try the following
http://www.foxitsoftware.com/
There's plenty of free versions, it's a teensy weensy application that
fires up instantly unlike Adopy bloatware rubbish.

I think you've missed the point. Unless there's an OS/2 version in there
that I've missed.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 19:09:04 UTC, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 18:20:29 +0100, Andrew Mawson wrote:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADP_2006.pdf

Odd but that link is coming up with a blank page for me - am I
paranoid or has left hook Prescott pulled the page???

I get asked what to do with it as it is a .pdf. I can save it to disc
(4.8 Megish) but my ancient OS/2 Adobe Acrobat reader can't make sense of
it and refuses to show anything.

Works fine and can be read/displayed using OS/2 GhostScript/GSView. Just
tried it.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 18:20:29 +0100, Andrew Mawson wrote:


http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADP_2006.pdf

Odd but that link is coming up with a blank page for me - am I
paranoid or has left hook Prescott pulled the page???


I get asked what to do with it as it is a .pdf. I can save it to disc
(4.8 Megish) but my ancient OS/2 Adobe Acrobat reader can't make sense of
it and refuses to show anything.

Section 1.26 Approved Document P 2006 edition reads:

"The building control body may choose to carry out the inspection and
testing itself, or to contract out some or all of the work on its
behalf. Building control bodies will carry out the necessary inspection
and testing at their expense, not at the householders' expense."

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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\================================================= ================/

In message , Guy King
writes
The message om
from "Dave Liquorice" contains these words:

I get asked what to do with it as it is a .pdf. I can save it to disc
(4.8 Megish) but my ancient OS/2 Adobe Acrobat reader can't make sense of
it and refuses to show anything.


Well, for what it's worth it says

1.26 The building control body may choose to carry out the inspection
and testing itself, or to contract out some or all of the work to a
specialist body which will then carry out the work on its behalf.
Building control bodies will carry out the necessary inspection and
testing at their expense, not at the housholders' expense.

I've a sneaky feeling that they'll say "Ah, it says "Building control
bodies will
carry out the necessary inspection and testing at their expense, not at
the housholders' expense." but we're not carrying it out, our
subcontractor is and they're charging you, not us.

If they subcontract it out, that is their responsibility, not the
householders.
--
Chris French

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Rumm wrote:

Roger Mills wrote:

However, my local BC department is not geared up to do
electrical inspections and insists that it is done by a third party -
inevitably at additional expense for DIY-ers. I'm not sure how they
get away with this.

I would be inclined to direct them to page 11, section 1.26 of
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADP_2006.pdf


Interesting!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

The message
from chris French contains these words:

1.26 The building control body may choose to carry out the inspection
and testing itself, or to contract out some or all of the work to a
specialist body which will then carry out the work on its behalf.
Building control bodies will carry out the necessary inspection and
testing at their expense, not at the housholders' expense.

I've a sneaky feeling that they'll say "Ah, it says "Building control
bodies will
carry out the necessary inspection and testing at their expense, not at
the housholders' expense." but we're not carrying it out, our
subcontractor is and they're charging you, not us.

If they subcontract it out, that is their responsibility, not the
householders.

I know that, and you know that, but I bet it's what they claim when
pushed in the hope that some people will fold and pay up.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

The en-suite will be required to have lighting and the extractor fan, so
wouldn't pass inspection without electrics.

And, as of this year, the ventilator and waste pipes are now within the
scope of building control.

My understanding was wrong then. I thought they had been under building
control for years.

Christian.

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 18:58:03 +0100, Ed Sirett wrote:

And, as of this year, the ventilator and waste pipes are now within the
scope of building control.

Is it just the waste pipes? I thought it was all new* sanitary fittings.

* as in there weren't any there before, not replacements of existing ones.

And, as of this year, the ventilator and waste pipes are now within the
scope of building control.

Is it just the waste pipes? I thought it was all new* sanitary fittings.

* as in there weren't any there before, not replacements of existing ones.

I thought it is about new sewerage arrangements. A new waste pipe
arrangement and a new santitary fitting in a new location are pretty much
the same thing. They just want to make sure your **** will drain.

Christian.

Guy King wrote:

I've a sneaky feeling that they'll say "Ah, it says "Building control
bodies will
carry out the necessary inspection and testing at their expense, not at
the housholders' expense." but we're not carrying it out, our
subcontractor is and they're charging you, not us.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1131042 also adds to the
evidence that the BC should pay for the inspection
(see "Local authority inspection and testing of electrical
installation work in dwellings")
--
Selah

Staffbull wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

Roger Mills wrote:


However, my local BC department is not geared up to do
electrical inspections and insists that it is done by a third party -
inevitably at additional expense for DIY-ers. I'm not sure how they get away
with this.

I would be inclined to direct them to page 11, section 1.26 of
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADP_2006.pdf



--
Cheers,

John.

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Thanks John :-)

local BCO came today and said fine for doing the wiring myself but I
would have to pay for testing.

Guess who i'll be phoning tomorrow !!!! politeley of course


Well guess what, my BCO turned up at midday today (N Somerset)!!

He had a look at what I started (said I may need a structural engineer
but thats another thread!), he came to the electrics and was quite
hesitant when mentioning Part P!
He was implying I had to pay for certification .......
.... I then mentioned 1.26 and he said "Oh you know about that then"!!

He then proceeded to tell me how much money they were paying a
sub-contractor to perform inspections, he also implied that this
paragraph had recently been changed and they were trying to get it
"clarified".

I did say to him that I was expecting them to pay and he did not agree
disagree either.

It seems some local authorities are trying more than others to limit costs!

Peter Hemmings wrote:
He had a look at what I started (said I may need a structural engineer
but thats another thread!), he came to the electrics and was quite
hesitant when mentioning Part P!
He was implying I had to pay for certification .......
... I then mentioned 1.26 and he said "Oh you know about that then"!!

He then proceeded to tell me how much money they were paying a
sub-contractor to perform inspections, he also implied that this
paragraph had recently been changed and they were trying to get it
"clarified".

LOL! I thought the recent change *was* the clarification, ie., it's now
clear who has to pay.

MBQ

Peter Hemmings wrote:
Staffbull wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

Roger Mills wrote:


However, my local BC department is not geared up to do
electrical inspections and insists that it is done by a third party -
inevitably at additional expense for DIY-ers. I'm not sure how they get away
with this.

I would be inclined to direct them to page 11, section 1.26 of
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...F_ADP_2006.pdf



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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\=============================================== ==================/




Thanks John :-)

local BCO came today and said fine for doing the wiring myself but I
would have to pay for testing.

Guess who i'll be phoning tomorrow !!!! politeley of course


Well guess what, my BCO turned up at midday today (N Somerset)!!

He had a look at what I started (said I may need a structural engineer
but thats another thread!), he came to the electrics and was quite
hesitant when mentioning Part P!
He was implying I had to pay for certification .......
... I then mentioned 1.26 and he said "Oh you know about that then"!!

He then proceeded to tell me how much money they were paying a
sub-contractor to perform inspections, he also implied that this
paragraph had recently been changed and they were trying to get it
"clarified".

I did say to him that I was expecting them to pay and he did not agree
disagree either.

It seems some local authorities are trying more than others to limit costs!


Yes, Anglesey is one of them!! I am up to calling the head of
department about page 11 1.26
the BCO still says I have to pay!! I pointed out the aforementioned
and asked why they were not following the regs if i had to....... no
answer apart from take it up with the manager so i will !!

Stephen Gower wrote:

Guy King wrote:

I've a sneaky feeling that they'll say "Ah, it says "Building control
bodies will
carry out the necessary inspection and testing at their expense, not at
the housholders' expense." but we're not carrying it out, our
subcontractor is and they're charging you, not us.


http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1131042 also adds to the
evidence that the BC should pay for the inspection
(see "Local authority inspection and testing of electrical
installation work in dwellings")

Yup, I like the bit where it says:

"There have been reports that some local authorities are asking
householders to have electrical installation work inspected, tested and
certificated by someone other than the person carrying out the work."

snip

"This means in our opinion that local authorities do not have the power
to require householders to retain an electrician to test and certificate
the work in accordance with BS 7671. Local authorities which have
adopted such a practice should discontinue it immediately."


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Stephen Gower wrote:

Guy King wrote:

I've a sneaky feeling that they'll say "Ah, it says "Building control
bodies will
carry out the necessary inspection and testing at their expense, not at
the housholders' expense." but we're not carrying it out, our
subcontractor is and they're charging you, not us.


http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1131042 also adds to the
evidence that the BC should pay for the inspection
(see "Local authority inspection and testing of electrical
installation work in dwellings")

Yup, I like the bit where it says:

"There have been reports that some local authorities are asking
householders to have electrical installation work inspected, tested and
certificated by someone other than the person carrying out the work."

snip

"This means in our opinion that local authorities do not have the power
to require householders to retain an electrician to test and certificate
the work in accordance with BS 7671. Local authorities which have
adopted such a practice should discontinue it immediately."


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/



Thanks John,

More ammo for tomorrow !!! I have to take my £64 building notice fee
for the wiring.