is a washing machine motor?

I was thinking because instead of swapping my DW router in and out of the
table to put a permanent motor in the table.
This would take some thinking,but if a WM motor can take the punishement of
spinning a large drum its accuracy regards side play of the rotor shaft has
got to be zero tolerance?

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
.uk...
is a washing machine motor?

I was thinking because instead of swapping my DW router in and out of the
table to put a permanent motor in the table.
This would take some thinking,but if a WM motor can take the punishement of
spinning a large drum its accuracy regards side play of the rotor shaft has
got to be zero tolerance?

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite



=============================
Regardless of any other considerations it might not be worth the effort because
you probably couldn't get the required RPM - typically 6000 - 30000 rpm.

Have a look at the motors in Machine Mart for some idea of the possible (low)
speeds. My washing machine has a maximum spin speed of about 1100 rpm so you
wouldn't be able to get much more than this with gearing.

You would be better off using your pillar drill for the long, less detailed
stuff and use your router table for finer work.

If you're interested, Machine Mart have introduced an affordable DIY spindle
moulder which is effectively a dedicated router / router table. See:

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/search....pindle+moulder

Cic.



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Cicero wrote:
"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
.uk...
is a washing machine motor?

I was thinking because instead of swapping my DW router in and out
of the table to put a permanent motor in the table.
This would take some thinking,but if a WM motor can take the
punishement of spinning a large drum its accuracy regards side play
of the rotor shaft has got to be zero tolerance?

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite



=============================
Regardless of any other considerations it might not be worth the
effort because you probably couldn't get the required RPM - typically
6000 - 30000 rpm.

Have a look at the motors in Machine Mart for some idea of the
possible (low) speeds. My washing machine has a maximum spin speed of
about 1100 rpm so you wouldn't be able to get much more than this
with gearing.

You would be better off using your pillar drill for the long, less
detailed stuff and use your router table for finer work.

If you're interested, Machine Mart have introduced an affordable DIY
spindle moulder which is effectively a dedicated router / router
table. See:

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/search....pindle+moulder

Cic.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
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Well thats that up the swanny...almost
Looking at their single phase motors looks promising and not to bad a price
for a 1.5HP motor.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
. uk...
Cicero wrote:
"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
.uk...
is a washing machine motor?

I was thinking because instead of swapping my DW router in and out
of the table to put a permanent motor in the table.
This would take some thinking,but if a WM motor can take the
punishement of spinning a large drum its accuracy regards side play
of the rotor shaft has got to be zero tolerance?

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite



=============================
Regardless of any other considerations it might not be worth the
effort because you probably couldn't get the required RPM - typically
6000 - 30000 rpm.

Have a look at the motors in Machine Mart for some idea of the
possible (low) speeds. My washing machine has a maximum spin speed of
about 1100 rpm so you wouldn't be able to get much more than this
with gearing.

You would be better off using your pillar drill for the long, less
detailed stuff and use your router table for finer work.

If you're interested, Machine Mart have introduced an affordable DIY
spindle moulder which is effectively a dedicated router / router
table. See:

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/search....pindle+moulder

Cic.


Well thats that up the swanny...almost
Looking at their single phase motors looks promising and not to bad a price
for a 1.5HP motor.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

=============================
That's quite a powerful motor. Typically you would find a 1/4 or 1/3 HP for such
uses. My pillar drill has a 1/3 HP motor and it's been used for years (light
use) as an overhead router without mishap.

Cic.


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Cicero wrote:

Regardless of any other considerations it might not be worth the effort because
you probably couldn't get the required RPM - typically 6000 - 30000 rpm.

snip

My washing machine has a maximum spin speed of about 1100 rpm so you
wouldn't be able to get much more than this with gearing.

!!

But your washing machine drum is belt driven, with a pulley diameter
ratio of at least 20:1.

(I still don't like the idea of using a washing machine motor for this,
but for other reasons.)


--
Grunff

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
is a washing machine motor?

I was thinking because instead of swapping my DW router in and out of the
table to put a permanent motor in the table.
This would take some thinking,but if a WM motor can take the punishement of
spinning a large drum its accuracy regards side play of the rotor shaft has
got to be zero tolerance?

It would be more than enough power for a router. WM motors typically do
upto around 15,000 rpm, which is right on the button for a small
router, but not a larger one. The real problem is safety, I wouldnt
really recommend it.


NT

Grunff wrote:

(I still don't like the idea of using a washing machine motor for
this, but for other reasons.)

Whats the drawbacks?

Obviously it'll need a sturdy base(possibly bigger base and support) and a
variable speed controller.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

wrote in message
oups.com...
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
is a washing machine motor?

I was thinking because instead of swapping my DW router in and out of the
table to put a permanent motor in the table.
This would take some thinking,but if a WM motor can take the punishement of
spinning a large drum its accuracy regards side play of the rotor shaft has
got to be zero tolerance?

It would be more than enough power for a router. WM motors typically do
upto around 15,000 rpm, which is right on the button for a small
router, but not a larger one. The real problem is safety, I wouldnt
really recommend it.


NT

======================
I didn't realise that current washing machine motors gave such high rpm. The
last one I repaired was a single tub top entry type and I don't think that gave
such high rpm. I've got a spin drier motor lying around from about the same
time and that certainly gave much higher rpm than the washer motor.

What are the safety issues - assuming that you can mount the motor solidly?

Cic.






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How will you mount a collet perfectly concentricaly on the shaft of a
washing machine motor?

wrote:
How will you mount a collet perfectly concentricaly on the shaft of a
washing machine motor?

Drill a 1/2" hole down the shaft,providing the shaft can accept an 1/2"
bore and at the same time accept a thread cutting on the outside?

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Grunff wrote:
(I still don't like the idea of using a washing machine motor for
this, but for other reasons.)

Whats the drawbacks?

Obviously it'll need a sturdy base(possibly bigger base and support) and a
variable speed controller.


There's a whole big pile of them.

Mounting a collet on the spindle will be tricky.
Mounting the motor to the table won't be too easy.
Being able to adjust the cutter height.
Speed control - washing machine motors are strange beasts with several
windings.

It goes on and on.

Just buy a decent router.


--
Grunff

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
wrote:
How will you mount a collet perfectly concentricaly on the shaft of a
washing machine motor?

Drill a 1/2" hole down the shaft,providing the shaft can accept an 1/2"
bore and at the same time accept a thread cutting on the outside?


How will you center that hole?


--
Grunff

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
. uk...
wrote:
How will you mount a collet perfectly concentricaly on the shaft of a
washing machine motor?

Drill a 1/2" hole down the shaft,providing the shaft can accept an 1/2"
bore and at the same time accept a thread cutting on the outside?

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite



======================
If you want to explore the idea further consider a belt drive using something
like a 'Picador spindle'.

http://www.picadoreng.co.uk/

I'm pretty sure that these take a standard drill chuck which will hold a router
bit, but I don't know what is likely to happen at the speeds being quoted by
others here.

Cic.


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Grunff wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
wrote:
How will you mount a collet perfectly concentricaly on the shaft of
a washing machine motor?

Drill a 1/2" hole down the shaft,providing the shaft can accept an
1/2" bore and at the same time accept a thread cutting on the
outside?


How will you center that hole?

If you look at most drive shafts they have a conical recess this recess is
there when its turned on the Lathe,this will make it easy to center the
drill bit.
However not all shafts are like this.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

If you look at most drive shafts they have a conical recess this recess is
there when its turned on the Lathe,this will make it easy to center the
drill bit.
However not all shafts are like this.


While I'm aware of the dimple you mean, I don't fancy your chances. The
only way you'd be able to get a centered, parallel hole would be to
strip the motor (not too difficult) and stick the armature in a lathe.

All in all way too much hassle. You could get this to work if we lived
in a post-apocalyptic world where you couldn't buy a router, but as
things currently stand, it's barely worth contemplating.


--
Grunff

Grunff wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

If you look at most drive shafts they have a conical recess this
recess is there when its turned on the Lathe,this will make it easy
to center the drill bit.
However not all shafts are like this.


While I'm aware of the dimple you mean, I don't fancy your chances.
The only way you'd be able to get a centered, parallel hole would be
to strip the motor (not too difficult) and stick the armature in a
lathe.

All in all way too much hassle. You could get this to work if we lived
in a post-apocalyptic world where you couldn't buy a router, but as
things currently stand, it's barely worth contemplating.

But this is DIY is it not?

And you can get the motor off any scrap WM it'll cost you nothing providing
the tools are at hand.

I know someone with a small lathe so thats a bonus for me. :-) however if
that wasnt available I would try to drill the shaft.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
wrote:
How will you mount a collet perfectly concentricaly on the shaft of a
washing machine motor?

Drill a 1/2" hole down the shaft,providing the shaft can accept an 1/2"
bore and at the same time accept a thread cutting on the outside?

The ones I've seen have mostly had spindles of around half inch
diameter. Maybe you have something wider already.

Theres a site that shows exactly how to make one of these, plus various
other power tools, but I cant find the addy for it.

Safety issues: there are various issues crop up with home made power
tools.
They can break under load, throwing very fast moving chunks of metal,
it only takes one joint of less than ideal strength for this to happen.
They can lack the level of safety guards that new tools have
They may lack switch interlock
They can lack additional features standard on new tools such as riving
knife etc
They can have non ideally matched cutting tool and rpm, leading to slow
progress leading to a strong temptation to push it too hard to get the
job done.
And of course they can have more basic poor wiring and unprotected
moving part issues.

For a table router that does anything from 6000 to 15000 rpm I'd be
primarily concerned about security and stability of fixing of the bit
to the shaft. It will have to stay accurately centred despite sideways
force, very high rotational speeds and constant vibration, so the
fixing strength and accuracy must be excellent.


NT

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

But this is DIY is it not?

I'm all for DIY, but I've done enough of it to be able to differentiate
between projects that will be rewarding and produce a satisfactory
result, and ones that won't.


And you can get the motor off any scrap WM it'll cost you nothing providing
the tools are at hand.

Make sure you get the speed controller too. You will need that as a
starting point when building yours.


I know someone with a small lathe so thats a bonus for me. :-) however if
that wasnt available I would try to drill the shaft.

That's good. I think if you drilled the hole using a drill press the
thing would fly apart at around 2000rpm.

--
Grunff

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

is a washing machine motor?

Who cares? Washing machine motors are weird little buggers and
effectively off-limits to practical DIY. Because they're multi-speed,
reversible and all the rest of it, they need complex drive electronics.
Because they're already in a washing machine housing they ignore a
casing of their own so as to improve cooling airflow.

Although a dedicated DIYer _could_ re-use a modern washing machine
motor, there's just no good reason to. Many other motors are more
useful and a whole lot less trouble to recycle.

Grunff wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

If you look at most drive shafts they have a conical recess this recess is
there when its turned on the Lathe,this will make it easy to center the
drill bit.
However not all shafts are like this.

While I'm aware of the dimple you mean, I don't fancy your chances. The
only way you'd be able to get a centered, parallel hole would be to
strip the motor (not too difficult) and stick the armature in a lathe.

All in all way too much hassle. You could get this to work if we lived
in a post-apocalyptic world where you couldn't buy a router, but as
things currently stand, it's barely worth contemplating.

The armature is already in a lathe, no stripping needed. Just apply
some volts to the motor and the lathe is powered.


NT

wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

is a washing machine motor?

Who cares? Washing machine motors are weird little buggers and
effectively off-limits to practical DIY. Because they're multi-speed,
reversible and all the rest of it, they need complex drive electronics.
Because they're already in a washing machine housing they ignore a
casing of their own so as to improve cooling airflow.

Although a dedicated DIYer _could_ re-use a modern washing machine
motor, there's just no good reason to. Many other motors are more
useful and a whole lot less trouble to recycle.

In a typical front loader the motor has 6 wires. 2 are for tacho and
can be ignored. 2 are armature, 2 are stator. Connect these 2 windings
in series and run the motor off a transformer with a few tappings on
for different speeds. Last time I ran one I think it was on about 40v
for low speed use, so probably would take mains directly, as long as
the 2 winds are in series.


NT

wrote:

The armature is already in a lathe, no stripping needed. Just apply
some volts to the motor and the lathe is powered.


I don't think it'd work. The main point of using a lathe is to ensure
that your drill bit is parallel to the shaft. I don't see how you'd
achieve this with sufficient accuracy without a lathe.


--
Grunff

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
.uk...
is a washing machine motor?

Until recently, I had a couple of commercially built high speed bench drills
that used Hoover washing machine motors. I think they were 1/8 HP. The drive
was by 1/4" round leather sewing machine belts, so they certainly were not
very powerful.

Colin Bignell

In article ,
"The3rd Earl Of Derby" writes:
is a washing machine motor?

I was thinking because instead of swapping my DW router in and out of the
table to put a permanent motor in the table.
This would take some thinking,but if a WM motor can take the punishement of
spinning a large drum its accuracy regards side play of the rotor shaft has
got to be zero tolerance?

Controlling them is not simple. Uncontrolled and with no load,
they will spin fast enough for the armature to come to pieces
(i.e. explode at those speeds). They are highly optimised for
just what they were designed for.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article . com,
writes:
In a typical front loader the motor has 6 wires. 2 are for tacho and
can be ignored. 2 are armature, 2 are stator. Connect these 2 windings
in series and run the motor off a transformer with a few tappings on
for different speeds. Last time I ran one I think it was on about 40v
for low speed use, so probably would take mains directly, as long as
the 2 winds are in series.

This is not at all safe. They must not be run without speed control
and with no load as they can way exceed the safe operating speed of
the armature, and turn into a bomb as the thing flies to pieces.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article . com,
writes:

In a typical front loader the motor has 6 wires. 2 are for tacho and
can be ignored. 2 are armature, 2 are stator. Connect these 2 windings
in series and run the motor off a transformer with a few tappings on
for different speeds. Last time I ran one I think it was on about 40v
for low speed use, so probably would take mains directly, as long as
the 2 winds are in series.

This is not at all safe. They must not be run without speed control
and with no load as they can way exceed the safe operating speed of
the armature, and turn into a bomb as the thing flies to pieces.

I think this may be a misunderstanding or something similar. Your bomb
scenario occurs if the motor is driven so hard that it runs full tilt
on full load, then that load is removed. The speed I was running mine
at was way way below that.

Series wound motors dont have no speed limit, speed is still limited by
what you feed them. The issue with series wound is that you _can_ run
them under such conditions that unloading them would become dangerous.
With a router you would never run them under such conditions.

I'd make a vague estimate that it was doing perhaps 2,000 rpm on 40v
with no load, so that one would be fine offload on mains.

Washing machine controllers run them in parallel wound mode off mains,
using triac pahse chopping for speed control. When you put them in
series mode the required drive V increases and the need for electronics
disappears. I certainly wouldnt connect one to mains when wired
parallel - and with an unknown motor I'd check its no load speed was
acceptable in series mode before giving it full mains.

Night


NT