Hmm, I find an open fire with a properly designed back boiler to be an
excellent source of cheap comfortable heat. If the back boiler is feeding
a
heat bank, it's also a good way to provide UFH as well.

The problem is the sheer amount of work keeping an open fire going,
procuring fuel (i.e. splitting logs or shovelling coal), maintaining the
fire and disposing of the ash. If you don't mind the work, then they're
fine!

For me, I enjoy doing it a couple of days a year, but would find it a chore
if done daily.

Christian.

wrote:

Seems to me that you are dishing out advice to people and you really
dont even know what you are talking about.

Pot, Kettle, Black.

Have you worked out how you can run a multi-killowatt Myson kickspace
from a 2Amp fuse yet?

MBQ

Have you worked out how you can run a multi-killowatt Myson kickspace
from a 2Amp fuse yet?

Well, my Myson Kickspace is run off a 3A fuse. It draws less than half an
amp and emits around 2kW of heat.

Christian.

The message . com
from contains these words:

Have you worked out how you can run a multi-killowatt Myson kickspace
from a 2Amp fuse yet?

Er - they only draw enough for the fan - the heat is from the CH
radiator circuit.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:33:57 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
t...
If you really want to be warm, forget about underfloor heating.
Whenever I look at a these systems they invariably are used in
conjunction with other heaters and the owners just wont admit that they
are useless because they spent so much money putting them in.

Certainly, the numbers suggest that unless the room is well insulated, the
total heat output will be insufficient. However, they have significant
advantages over other methods. In particular, they are very useful in
rooms
with tiled floors, such as bathrooms and kitchens, as they enable you to
use
the room without having to find shoes or slippers.

A new floor with lots of foam insulation under, and to the sides up to
screed level, forming a tray, will not be cold. The tiles will eventually
heat up with the heating system and not lose heat to the ground beneath.


Tiles at ambiant temperature will still feel cold as they conduct heat
away from the skin. They need to be closer to body temperature to be
comfortable.

wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Christian.
If you really want to be warm, forget about underfloor heating.
Whenever I look at a these systems they invariably are used in
conjunction with other heaters and the owners just wont admit that they
are useless because they spent so much money putting them in.
Total ********


Its the sole form of heating here apart from open wires we only use on
the very coldest days, and they keep 250sq meters totally warm.

Done properly, its better than anything else.

Put a decent layer of insulation under the floor and leave it at that.
That is mandatory anyway.

Seems to me that you are dishing out advice to people and you really
dont even know what you are talking about.
In another thread you were offering your inside wisdom on wood burning
stoves and you dont even have one.

If you look carefully, you will see I have two open fires and a
woodburner. Plus an oil fire aga, UFH on 95% of the ground floor, a few
towel rails in bathrooms, and fan blown wall mounted heaters upstairs.

The comment you replied to above is, if you look carefully, not mine at all.


Then you said you had a large open fire and now you claim to have under
floor heating.

Come and see for yourself.

And you then rubbish other people's advices.
I really think you should change that misleading name you put on
yourself.
If the UFH is so great why do you need a large open fire?

Because we like it?

If the open fire is so great why do you need the UFH?
Your advice is seriously misleading to genuine enquirers so please
restrain your advice to matters that you actually know about.


Because its a bit of a pain to keep going 24x7.

In Denmark,once I visited a flat that was totally UFH and nothing else.
My sisters house in Sweden is totally UFH and nothing else. They are all
well able to keep theplaces at 22-25C when its -15C outside.




Y

Christian McArdle wrote:
If the UFH is so great why do you need a large open fire?
If the open fire is so great why do you need the UFH?

They do different things. UFH is great at heating a house very comfortably
and efficiently.

An open fire is great to look at. Pathetic at providing low maintenance, low
cost comfortable day to day heat, but really nice now and again.


Exactly.

Its all very well settling down in a room at 22C exactly with the rain
****ing down outside,or sleet bouncing off the windows, but adding a
bloody greatr 10KW of log fire to the mix is psychologically marvellous,
and modern things like thermostsats then reduce the UFH to nothing at
that point, saving expensive oil.




Christian.

Steve Firth wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:05:33 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

An open fire is great to look at. Pathetic at providing low maintenance, low
cost comfortable day to day heat, but really nice now and again.

Hmm, I find an open fire with a properly designed back boiler to be an
excellent source of cheap comfortable heat. If the back boiler is feeding a
heat bank, it's also a good way to provide UFH as well.

It most certainly is all of tat, but low maintenace it ain't, and, if
you have to buy your wood at market prices, its pretty expensive too.

Fortunately arouddn here trees fall down all the time, and a bit of time
with a chainsaw and a landrover nets me the odd ton of wood for winter,
for a few hours work.

And its usually quite sociable too,

Christian McArdle wrote:
Hmm, I find an open fire with a properly designed back boiler to be an
excellent source of cheap comfortable heat. If the back boiler is feeding
a
heat bank, it's also a good way to provide UFH as well.

The problem is the sheer amount of work keeping an open fire going,
procuring fuel (i.e. splitting logs or shovelling coal), maintaining the
fire and disposing of the ash. If you don't mind the work, then they're
fine!

For me, I enjoy doing it a couple of days a year, but would find it a chore
if done daily.

It is, but it can be streamlined..I have a huge pile of wood down the
garden, and about once a week/tendays/month (depending on how cold it
is) a SORN registered Series III Land rover gets fired up, and trundles
down there with the chainsaw and bomb. Half and hours excessively
physical work nets a land rover full of wood, which is then carefully
parked by a suitable door at the side of the house.

Ash is a problem - we normally empty the open fire about twice in the
winter - by then its a a wheelbarrow full.

Actually lighting it is simple once you have the knack. It does take an
hour or two to start producing sensible heat though.

Stoves are even less work..as long as teher is a place to stack cut logs
near them, they can be throttle back to burn at whatever temp you want.

HOWEVER they are certainly more work than a CH boiler, and more
polluting in all except CO2. (in the sense that their CO2 comes from
renewables).

A lot depends on a good supply of local cheap fuel. I would not consider
having one in a town for example.



Christian.

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:02:36 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

Interesting thoughts brought up. I think the underfloor option will
probably be too expensive for me, but I will definately look into the
fan heaters. Thanks everyone.

You can hedge your bets if you like. You can install the pipework, but not
fit the expensive manifolds/pump assemblies. Then, if you change your mind
later, you can complete the install. Once the floor is down, the opportunity
won't arise again!

BTW, the Myson Kickspace is very good. I have a 600 hydronic and it heats up
the kitchen very rapidly. It is best fitted on its own heating zone,
although this isn't essential. If you don't install a zone valve at all,
then balancing will be critical, or it will short circuit your heating
system even when off. A room stat is absolutely essential, too. They are so
powerful, the room would rapidly overheat without one.

Christian.


When they break down do you have to remove the units above the Myson
to get access?

When they break down do you have to remove the units above the Myson
to get access?

No. I installed mine after the units were in place. They simply slide out.
The water connections are by flexible hose and the power connection by flex.
The only things holding it in place are the screws to the plinth.

Christian.

Guy King wrote:
The message . com
from contains these words:

Have you worked out how you can run a multi-killowatt Myson kickspace
from a 2Amp fuse yet?

Er - they only draw enough for the fan - the heat is from the CH
radiator circuit.


_I_ know that.

In another thread noelog obviously didn't, but persists in berating
people for posting about things they don't know about. Oh never mind.

MBQ

wrote:
wrote:

Seems to me that you are dishing out advice to people and you really
dont even know what you are talking about.

Pot, Kettle, Black.

Have you worked out how you can run a multi-killowatt Myson kickspace
from a 2Amp fuse yet?

MBQ

well wise guy there are myson electric heaters and thats what I thought
the OP was installing. It later became clear that it was just a water
filled rad with an electic fan.

maybe you could work out yourself how to run a 2 kw heater on a 2 amp
fuse.

read the full thread before you jump in.

On 15 Aug 2006 08:53:29 -0700, wrote:


maybe you could work out yourself how to run a 2 kw heater on a 2 amp
fuse.

Easy, use a 1000v supply.

Next.
--

Matt wrote:
On 15 Aug 2006 08:53:29 -0700, wrote:


maybe you could work out yourself how to run a 2 kw heater on a 2 amp
fuse.

Easy, use a 1000v supply.

Next.
:-)

Nice one, Cyril..

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Richard wrote:
Christian McArdle wrote:



There is an advantage in having rapidly responding heat output in a
kitchen.
This is because the kitchen can hold other considerable heat producing
devices, such as ovens, microwaves, washing machines and hobs. A
responsive
system can rapidly shut down, whilst a slow acting system may overheat
the
room.

This is why I think a composite system containing both fan convectors
and a
low output underfloor system would work most effectively in a kitchen.
It
is, however, I concede, not the cheapest option by a large marign.

Christian.



Hi Christian

Sorry, I intended to convey in my posting that I think a composite system
is sensible, but wanted to see why Dr D doesn't.

I don't think the very small advantages are worth the extra cost.
If the room is in use and heated the floor will come up to room temp
whether its heated or not. Kickspace only useful if you leave it cold, and
require rapid heating just when you are using it. I've got fan blown
heaters here, and they are great in the bedrooms - take up almost no
space, and heat them from icy to cosy in an hour or so..but they are
pretty useless if what you want is all day heat. Noisy and sometimes
smelly due to dust getting trapped in them.

Dr Drivel can safely be ignored on all issues - I think that the rest of
us who may disagree on other things, would agree on that point.

This fellow used Polyplumb as well. Amazing.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Christian McArdle wrote:
I have a solid concrete floor which we are ripping up and going to
re-lay.
You could try something like a Continental Solution 10 kit. Make sure,
whatever you choose, that the floor construction is appropriate before
laying any concrete.

http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/s...lution_10.html
http://www.continental-ufh.com

Christian.
If you really want to be warm, forget about underfloor heating.
Whenever I look at a these systems they invariably are used in
conjunction with other heaters and the owners just wont admit that they
are useless because they spent so much money putting them in.

Total ********

I agree with Christian.

wrote in message
ups.com...

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Christian.
If you really want to be warm, forget about underfloor heating.
Whenever I look at a these systems they invariably are used in
conjunction with other heaters and the owners just wont admit that they
are useless because they spent so much money putting them in.

Total ********


Its the sole form of heating here apart from open wires we only use on
the very coldest days, and they keep 250sq meters totally warm.

Done properly, its better than anything else.


Put a decent layer of insulation under the floor and leave it at that.

That is mandatory anyway.


Seems to me that you are dishing out advice to people and you really
dont even know what you are talking about.

I full agree.

In another thread you were offering your inside wisdom on wood burning
stoves and you dont even have one.
Then you said you had a large open fire and now you claim to have under
floor heating.
And you then rubbish other people's advices.
I really think you should change that misleading name you put on
yourself.
If the UFH is so great why do you need a large open fire?
If the open fire is so great why do you need the UFH?
Your advice is seriously misleading to genuine enquirers so please
restrain your advice to matters that you actually know about.

Again, I agree.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Christian McArdle wrote:
If you really want to be warm, forget about underfloor heating.
Whenever I look at a these systems they invariably are used in
conjunction with other heaters and the owners just wont admit that they
are useless because they spent so much money putting them in.

Certainly, the numbers suggest that unless the room is well insulated,
the
total heat output will be insufficient. However, they have significant
advantages over other methods. In particular, they are very useful in
rooms
with tiled floors, such as bathrooms and kitchens, as they enable you to
use
the room without having to find shoes or slippers. They are also useful
in
wetter rooms, as puddles of water will evaporate more readily. Finally,
the
heating will be much quieter than the alternative, which in most kitchens
would be a fan convector, as wall space is too valuable to use for
passively
convected radiators.

That said, the fan convector has a considerable advantage in terms of
rapidity of heating. I think the best solution for a kitchen is to
actually
have both underfloor and fan convector. This gives the best of both
worlds,
with warm feet, rapid response and high total heat output.

In my own kitchen, I have a fan convector (plus an absolutely tiny
radiator
that was there already that couldn't heat a cupboard, let alone a
kitchen).
This does provide very effective and rapid heating. However, I do miss
having a warm floor and it is a pain in winter having to find footwear
for
every foray into the room, unless the heating has been on for hours.

Christian.


Actually the best kitchen heater is an Aga.

You can cook on it too.

I consider an Aga a totally useless super expensive waste of time. Most
people burner food on it, not cook