Hi all,

I have just had a look into my loftspace as I'm interested in turning it
into some sort of computer\play area. I'm not talking about habitable at
this point just simple flooring etc.

You will see from the photo that there are trusses which in their
current position render the space quite useless. The property is a
council semi, quite solid, probably built 40s\50s.

Questions are as follows.

1) Difficulty level (1 (low) - 10 (tricky)) in repositioning trusses to
allow workable space

2) Position trusses would have to be placed if moved? e.g. vertical near
the edges or horizontally near the roof apex

3) Cost of having someone in to do only that (I would do flooring etc
myself)

4) Time to complete?

5) Is this a fairly common job in the trade?

I am aware that before doing anything I would need to contact the local
authority - this is just to give me an idea.

Photo: http://www.silverbyte.co.uk/images/loft.jpg

Thanks in advance

Jonni

In article ,
Jonni writes:
Hi all,

I have just had a look into my loftspace as I'm interested in turning it
into some sort of computer\play area. I'm not talking about habitable at
this point just simple flooring etc.

You will see from the photo that there are trusses which in their
current position render the space quite useless. The property is a
council semi, quite solid, probably built 40s\50s.

If I'm judging the size of that space correctly (about 5' high by
10' wide), I rather doubt those trusses are required at all.
They appear to be transfering some of the weight onto a centre
supporting wall, but the roof span looks to be tiny at that point
anyway. Alternatively, if there is no supporting wall under the
centre, they are supporting the ceiling (hanging from the rafters),
but that seems unlikely in a house that old, with only a 10' span.

You need to get a structural surveyor to check the size and spacing
of the rafters, with respect to the weight of the roof covering, and
say for sure if the trusses are required or not. If something is
required, you might be able to swap them for purlins at each side.
Surveyor should also be asked to comment on max loading on the loft
floor, given the size/spacing of the ceiling joists. You may find
you can't actually put anything much up there without strengthening
the ceiling joists, which will lose you headroom.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Jonni wrote:

You will see from the photo that there are trusses which in their
current position render the space quite useless. The property is a
council semi, quite solid, probably built 40s\50s.

1) Difficulty level (1 (low) - 10 (tricky)) in repositioning trusses to
allow workable space

2) Position trusses would have to be placed if moved? e.g. vertical near
the edges or horizontally near the roof apex

3) Cost of having someone in to do only that (I would do flooring etc
myself)

4) Time to complete?

5) Is this a fairly common job in the trade?

I am aware that before doing anything I would need to contact the local
authority - this is just to give me an idea.

Photo: http://www.silverbyte.co.uk/images/loft.jpg

What a stupid list!

To start with you want better photos.

Modern roof trusses are not like that -which may or may not be because
they are not trusses of the modern style. However they might be early
versions of the modern composite truss though, except that the timber
is too new.

What are those cross pieces? And is there a ridge board -a 7 x 1 or
something, down the middle of the top where the rafters meet?

What section are the actuall rafters? And how far apart are they?
Measure from a side of one to the corresponding side of another and
measure three or four. I'll bet they are in metric.

Weatherlawyer wrote:
What a stupid list!

To start with you want better photos.

Modern roof trusses are not like that -which may or may not be because
they are not trusses of the modern style. However they might be early
versions of the modern composite truss though, except that the timber
is too new.

What are those cross pieces? And is there a ridge board -a 7 x 1 or
something, down the middle of the top where the rafters meet?

What section are the actuall rafters? And how far apart are they?
Measure from a side of one to the corresponding side of another and
measure three or four. I'll bet they are in metric.


Why is it "stupid list" Michael?, it is any more, or any less stupid
than the questions you went on to ask me? - would someone with such a
low level of understanding about this subject (quite obvious from my
'stupid list') be able to answer your questions?

Having done some digging I see that I should have expected that sort of
response from you. Since you know all about trusses (and apparently
earthquakes, weather and homophobia) - I'll give you some friendly
advice, think before you type, you never quite know who you're
responding to.

Speak to you soon.

Jonni wrote:
Hi all,

I have just had a look into my loftspace as I'm interested in turning
it into some sort of computer\play area. I'm not talking about
habitable at this point just simple flooring etc.

You will see from the photo that there are trusses which in their
current position render the space quite useless. The property is a
council semi, quite solid, probably built 40s\50s.

Questions are as follows.

1) Difficulty level (1 (low) - 10 (tricky)) in repositioning trusses
to allow workable space

You cannot just 'remove' or 'reposition' those trusses, they are there to
carry a load.

2) Position trusses would have to be placed if moved? e.g. vertical
near the edges or horizontally near the roof apex

What you have to do is to cut 4 holes in the pine end and party wall (2 in
each) and fit something like a 9 x 4 purlin on either side at the centre of
the roof and fixed into the holes that have been cut out.


3) Cost of having someone in to do only that (I would do flooring etc
myself)

Fairly expensive! Remember though, if you are using it as you suggested,
you cannot just lay a floor on top of the ceiling rafters, they won't take
the loading without bending or possibly snapping.

4) Time to complete?

As long as it takes.

5) Is this a fairly common job in the trade?

Yes, and it really needs a professional to give you the necessary advice on
loading calculations etc.

I am aware that before doing anything I would need to contact the
local authority - this is just to give me an idea.

Jonni, please seek some professional advice on this, as this is a dangerous
job for an amateur to do.

Brian G

"Jonni" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I have just had a look into my loftspace as I'm interested in turning it
into some sort of computer\play area. I'm not talking about habitable at
this point just simple flooring etc.

You will see from the photo that there are trusses which in their current
position render the space quite useless. The property is a council semi,
quite solid, probably built 40s\50s.

Questions are as follows.

1) Difficulty level (1 (low) - 10 (tricky)) in repositioning trusses to
allow workable space

Similar to a loftspace I had once and successfully converted. Same angled
struts, slightly further apart. My rafters were 6"x2" and yours look
similarly sized. My ceiling joists which became floor joists were also
6"x2", however I can't see the size of your ceiling joists. I got a
structural survey through www.engineersreports.co.uk (or similar). That is
the best investment you can make. If its do-able the report will tell you
what you have to do. Might even be straightforward enough to diy. A few
hundred pounds from memory. If your ceiling joists are 6"x2" I expect the
project is do-able, if smaller I would expect you would need to add deeper
floor joists. Not particularly difficult but it eats into your headroom.
A lot depends on your ceiling joist support arrangement which you don't
mention. A structural engineer would be able to tell you whether your
rafters would need a purlin supported by your end walls or by a dwarf wall
built off your ceiling/floor joists which is what I did.

If you are happy with the headroom its probably do-able, but you need a
proper survey to tell.

Jim A

The message
from "Brian G" contains these words:

3) Cost of having someone in to do only that (I would do flooring etc
myself)

Fairly expensive! Remember though, if you are using it as you suggested,
you cannot just lay a floor on top of the ceiling rafters, they won't take
the loading without bending or possibly snapping.

And anyway, you'll need to top up the loft insulation before you put the
floor down. You seem to only have 4" which is half what's now
recommended.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
oups.com...

Jonni wrote:

You will see from the photo that there are trusses which in their
current position render the space quite useless. The property is a
council semi, quite solid, probably built 40s\50s.

1) Difficulty level (1 (low) - 10 (tricky)) in repositioning trusses to
allow workable space

2) Position trusses would have to be placed if moved? e.g. vertical near
the edges or horizontally near the roof apex

3) Cost of having someone in to do only that (I would do flooring etc
myself)

4) Time to complete?

5) Is this a fairly common job in the trade?

I am aware that before doing anything I would need to contact the local
authority - this is just to give me an idea.

Photo: http://www.silverbyte.co.uk/images/loft.jpg

They are not trusses at all. Just 4" x 2 timbers with a diagonal bracing to
a centre ceiling beam, there is also a ridge board.
The diagonal bracings take place of a centre under rafter purling. I'm
surprised no one as mentioned the open boarded roof, not t&g, most unusual,
in fact the roof carcasing is unusual. To use the roof space you would
have to put in a quite substanual under rafter purling either in timber or
steel, reinforce the ceiling joist before taking the diagonal bracings out
and boarding the floor. An engineers report would work out the stresses and
sizes of the material need. Council approval would probably need and to be
notified if the property is still rented from them.

K. S

Jonni wrote:

I have just had a look into my loftspace as I'm interested in turning it
into some sort of computer\play area. I'm not talking about habitable at
this point just simple flooring etc.
You will see from the photo that there are trusses which in their
current position render the space quite useless. The property is a
council semi, quite solid, probably built 40s\50s.

Questions are as follows.

1) Difficulty level (1 (low) - 10 (tricky)) in repositioning trusses to
allow workable space

Well, it looks more like a traditionally joined roof to me rather than a
trussed one. This makes things somewhat more doable.

A few questions:

What sizes are the timbers used for the: rafters, ceiling joists, and
struts?

What is the approx span of the ceiling joists?

Is there a supporting wall coincident with the struts that run down to
the centre of the span?

2) Position trusses would have to be placed if moved? e.g. vertical near
the edges or horizontally near the roof apex

The most obvious replacement would be either to add a purlin (i.e. large
horizontal timber running the width of the loft about mid way up the
rafter span (with a single strut to a centre supporting wall), or
possibly a dwarf wall a little below the mid span of the rafters that
transfers the load to the floor. (assuming here that the struts you see
are acting in compression supporting the rafter slope rather than in
tension carrying the mid span of the ceiling.

3) Cost of having someone in to do only that (I would do flooring etc
myself)

You may need to uprate the floor (took two of us six days on my place).
The superstructure changes would be quite simple if not adding dormers
etc - perhaps a week for the basics. You can translate those times into
money for your area!

4) Time to complete?

Yo get insulation in, a velux perhaps, plasterboard etc say four to six
weeks. This assumes you are still using a ladder for access.

5) Is this a fairly common job in the trade?

common enough, although many builders will shy away from loft
conversions because of the perceived complexities.

See if you get any more information from:

http://www.internode.co.uk/loft/floor.htm

and

http://www.internode.co.uk/loft/superstructure.htm


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

keith_765 wrote:
"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
oups.com...
Jonni wrote:

You will see from the photo that there are trusses which in their
current position render the space quite useless. The property is a
council semi, quite solid, probably built 40s\50s.

1) Difficulty level (1 (low) - 10 (tricky)) in repositioning trusses to
allow workable space

2) Position trusses would have to be placed if moved? e.g. vertical near
the edges or horizontally near the roof apex

3) Cost of having someone in to do only that (I would do flooring etc
myself)

4) Time to complete?

5) Is this a fairly common job in the trade?

I am aware that before doing anything I would need to contact the local
authority - this is just to give me an idea.

Photo: http://www.silverbyte.co.uk/images/loft.jpg
They are not trusses at all. Just 4" x 2 timbers with a diagonal bracing to
a centre ceiling beam, there is also a ridge board.

Look like trusses to me mate.

Anything with diagonal bracing is a truss...

The diagonal bracings take place of a centre under rafter purling.

They do a lot more than that.

I'm surprised no one as mentioned the open boarded roof, not t&g, most unusual,
in fact the roof carcasing is unusual. To use the roof space you would
have to put in a quite substanual under rafter purling either in timber or
steel, reinforce the ceiling joist before taking the diagonal bracings out
and boarding the floor. An engineers report would work out the stresses and
sizes of the material need. Council approval would probably need and to be
notified if the property is still rented from them.

I think you would in all probability have to replace or double up the
rafters as well.

My gut reaction when looking at a loft like that is 'forget it'

It will never ever repay the effort involved, better to find a bigger
house and use the money saved to buy it..


K. S

"Jonni" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I have just had a look into my loftspace as I'm interested in turning it
into some sort of computer\play area. I'm not talking about habitable at
this point just simple flooring etc.

You will see from the photo that there are trusses which in their current
position render the space quite useless. The property is a council semi,
quite solid, probably built 40s\50s.

SNIP


You mean to do a conversion like this, easy just remove the beams.....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/3770939.stm