Security 'chain' for uPVC doors?
 

Hi All,

I am considering fitting a security chain / device to the front (and
possibly rear) doors so that I can leave both ajar over the hot
evenings to get a through draught without having someone 'just wander
in'.

Also it would be handy for generally answering the door to 'unknowns',
especially for the wife and daughter ( who generally won't answer
the door less we are in anyway).

I think Mum has a solid metal bar type on her wooden door / frame and
that seems quite 'positive' (ie, I don't think it could be cut through
with bolt croppers or 'unhooked' *easily* (or possibly unhooked at
all) through the door gap).


I *think* my DG doors have a steel reinforcement to the frame (if not
also within the door itself) and if ordinary screws used from through
the 'fitting' from the inside won't hold, I could inset some small
coach bolts through the outside (under while plastic plugs etc).

So. any thoughts please folks .. (models, suppliers, approx prices /
suitability etc)

All the best ..

T i m

sigh and go on then Mr Bacon .. as you have been good for a while
you can reply as well ... as long as it's not to tell me about
alt.locksmiths.doorstays .... ;-)

Security 'chain' for uPVC doors?
 

T i m wrote:


So. any thoughts please folks .. (models, suppliers, approx prices /
suitability etc)

Hi Tim

Toolstation have some; 80111 and 45579 if you use the search function.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

Security 'chain' for uPVC doors?
 

The message
from "The Medway Handyman" contains
these words:

Toolstation have some; 80111 and 45579 if you use the search function.

I've got the former and it's very good - mostly. It appears secure
enough - certainly it'd be a deterrent, which is all you really can
expect. The drawback is that the kids have a habit of flipping it as the
walk past so the door shuts on it. Not a major problem since I've taught
mine not to do it, but visiting kids just can't leave it alone[1].
The other minor niggle is that it's a bit loose on its pivots, which I
got round by taking it apart and putting a small O-ring in the hinge.

[1] Likewise the catflap. You can almost guarantee the little sods will
lock the cats out - or worse in.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Security 'chain' for uPVC doors?
 

"T i m" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

I am considering fitting a security chain / device to the front (and
possibly rear) doors so that I can leave both ajar over the hot
evenings to get a through draught without having someone 'just wander
in'.

Also it would be handy for generally answering the door to 'unknowns',
especially for the wife and daughter ( who generally won't answer
the door less we are in anyway).

Have they had a personal bad experience?

Both sets of our parents used to lock, bolt and chain doors, as children we
couldn't understand the fuss. During our married life we've only locked our
doors at night, unless it's cold the back door at least is ajar most of the
time. Each door has two locks, they use just one key. We removed the latches
and bolts.

I answer the door to anyone ... I suppose that's just because we're too laid
back, our attitude is that no-one's gong to want to attack us and we've
nothing to steal which anyone would want. If there was it wouldn't matter
anyway ... people are more important than things. Ours is the only house in
the street without a burglar alarm. Perhaps we're wrong.

Our next door neighbour has locks and chain on his door. When he goes into
the garden he locks the door after him, when he takes rubbish to the dustbin
he locks the door after him. I don't know what valuables he's protecting.
When his partner comes back from work and has forgotten her keys she has to
ring him to open the door, he can't hear a knock on the door or the
doorbell.

The other next door neighbour has a drive gate which is locked all the time,
as well as the usual door hardware and security gate which are kept locked.

Next-door-but-one neighbour was paranoid about locking her doors with bolts,
locks and a chain. Then she had fitted one of those ugly 'security' gates
and kept that locked all the time too, whether she was in or out.

During one night early this year she had to call the ambulance. She managed
to open her door when they came but the security gate had to be unlocked
from the outside, she couldn't reach round to do it and wouldn't give the
ambulance crew the key. They had to watch her fall to the floor and die
before the police arrived with the power to force an entry.

I think about this every time I lock our doors at night and wonder ...

Mary

Security 'chain' for uPVC doors?
 

On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:27:41 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
Hi All,

I am considering fitting a security chain / device to the front (and
possibly rear) doors so that I can leave both ajar over the hot
evenings to get a through draught without having someone 'just wander
in'.

Also it would be handy for generally answering the door to 'unknowns',
especially for the wife and daughter ( who generally won't answer
the door less we are in anyway).

Have they had a personal bad experience?

Not that I know of?

Both sets of our parents used to lock, bolt and chain doors, as children we
couldn't understand the fuss.

Mine would only do so at night (but the front couldn't be opened from
the outside without a key)

During our married life we've only locked our
doors at night, unless it's cold the back door at least is ajar most of the
time.

I expect *you* lock the doors to stop 'spouse' escaping Mary? ;-)

Each door has two locks, they use just one key. We removed the latches
and bolts.

eBay?

I answer the door to anyone ...

As do I .. but then I'm a big ugly bloke and often have one hand near
some sporting equipment that may have been left in the hall ....

I suppose that's just because we're too laid
back, our attitude is that no-one's gong to want to attack us and we've
nothing to steal which anyone would want.

There's loads of dead folk who thought that Mary .. ;-(

My car was broken into because they 'assumed' there must be a radio
hidden away somewhere, I mean, what car doesn't have a radio these
days .. well mine ... (as they found out)?

If there was it wouldn't matter
anyway ... people are more important than things.

Until you try to replace those 'things' and the insurance company says
you hadn't provided sufficient security?

Ours is the only house in
the street without a burglar alarm. Perhaps we're wrong.

Perhaps you have been lucky?

Our next door neighbour has locks and chain on his door. When he goes into
the garden he locks the door after him, when he takes rubbish to the dustbin
he locks the door after him. I don't know what valuables he's protecting.

'His' valuables .. and they needn't be 'valuable' in the commercial
sense?

When his partner comes back from work and has forgotten her keys she has to
ring him to open the door, he can't hear a knock on the door or the
doorbell.

I can hear the doorbell when I leave the key on the inside of our
front door and 'she' wants to get in. But with our multipoint locking
you have to lock the door to stop someone just walking in anytime?

The other next door neighbour has a drive gate which is locked all the time,
as well as the usual door hardware and security gate which are kept locked.

Ok ..

Next-door-but-one neighbour was paranoid about locking her doors with bolts,
locks and a chain.

Wasn't there an old saying '.. better to be safe than sorry ..' ?

Then she had fitted one of those ugly 'security' gates
and kept that locked all the time too, whether she was in or out.

They made me take the laser canon off the front of our house .. ;-(

During one night early this year she had to call the ambulance. She managed
to open her door when they came but the security gate had to be unlocked
from the outside, she couldn't reach round to do it and wouldn't give the
ambulance crew the key. They had to watch her fall to the floor and die
before the police arrived with the power to force an entry.

Life's a compromise .. like those who don't wear a safely belt because
of the fear of drowning usually die when their heads hit something
more solid than water .. like a bridge .. ;-(

I think about this every time I lock our doors at night and wonder ...

Well there is that. But remember some of us are *obliged* to ensure
the security of our houses .. and the reason involves the sorts of
things I would rather not be on the wrong end of when I come home ....

All the best ..

T i m

Security 'chain' for uPVC doors?
 

"T i m" wrote in message
...

Have they had a personal bad experience?

Not that I know of?

So why the nervousness?


During our married life we've only locked our
doors at night, unless it's cold the back door at least is ajar most of
the
time.

I expect *you* lock the doors to stop 'spouse' escaping Mary? ;-)

He could escape at any time he liked. He knows when he's well off.

Usually he locks the doors in any case.

Each door has two locks, they use just one key. We removed the latches
and bolts.

eBay?

Scrap buckets.

I answer the door to anyone ...

As do I .. but then I'm a big ugly bloke and often have one hand near
some sporting equipment that may have been left in the hall ....

But, seriously, have you ever needed it?

I suppose that's just because we're too laid
back, our attitude is that no-one's gong to want to attack us and we've
nothing to steal which anyone would want.

There's loads of dead folk who thought that Mary .. ;-(

Not as many as those dead folks who die on the road.

You don't drive, I take it ... ?

My car was broken into because they 'assumed' there must be a radio
hidden away somewhere, I mean, what car doesn't have a radio these
days .. well mine ... (as they found out)?

We've been known to leave our car keys in the car door (in those days of
door locks) and in the ignition.

And this in a high crime area ...

If there was it wouldn't matter
anyway ... people are more important than things.

Until you try to replace those 'things' and the insurance company says
you hadn't provided sufficient security?

No insurance. We've paid out thousands over the years, we decided that it
wasn't worth it.

Ours is the only house in
the street without a burglar alarm. Perhaps we're wrong.

Perhaps you have been lucky?

Or perhaps we don't have the things which people want.

Our next door neighbour has locks and chain on his door. When he goes into
the garden he locks the door after him, when he takes rubbish to the
dustbin
he locks the door after him. I don't know what valuables he's protecting.

'His' valuables .. and they needn't be 'valuable' in the commercial
sense?

Who would want 'uncommercial' valuables?

OI asked him tonight, in the light of this post, why he locked his door all
the time. He said that someone might come in and take him away. He's a BIG
man. I said they'd need a fork lift ... his lady laughed.

When his partner comes back from work and has forgotten her keys she has
to
ring him to open the door, he can't hear a knock on the door or the
doorbell.

I can hear the doorbell when I leave the key on the inside of our
front door and 'she' wants to get in. But with our multipoint locking
you have to lock the door to stop someone just walking in anytime?

But who's going to do that?

The other next door neighbour has a drive gate which is locked all the
time,
as well as the usual door hardware and security gate which are kept
locked.

Ok ..

Next-door-but-one neighbour was paranoid about locking her doors with
bolts,
locks and a chain.

Wasn't there an old saying '.. better to be safe than sorry ..' ?

Then she had fitted one of those ugly 'security' gates
and kept that locked all the time too, whether she was in or out.

They made me take the laser canon off the front of our house .. ;-(

During one night early this year she had to call the ambulance. She
managed
to open her door when they came but the security gate had to be unlocked
from the outside, she couldn't reach round to do it and wouldn't give the
ambulance crew the key. They had to watch her fall to the floor and die
before the police arrived with the power to force an entry.

Life's a compromise .. like those who don't wear a safely belt because
of the fear of drowning usually die when their heads hit something
more solid than water .. like a bridge .. ;-(

I think about this every time I lock our doors at night and wonder ...

Well there is that. But remember some of us are *obliged* to ensure
the security of our houses .. and the reason involves the sorts of
things I would rather not be on the wrong end of when I come home ....

Well, I'm not going to change. If I had a bad experience I might. But you
say that your ladies haven't ...well, that you know of.

I wonder, surely you WOULD know?

Mary

Security 'chain' for uPVC doors?
 

On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 21:48:46 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
.. .

Have they had a personal bad experience?

Not that I know of?

So why the nervousness?

Not all folk have to experience something first hand to be cautious /
wary of it?

I answer the door to anyone ...

As do I .. but then I'm a big ugly bloke and often have one hand near
some sporting equipment that may have been left in the hall ....

But, seriously, have you ever needed it?

No, but that *could* be down to the fact that we don't answer the door
to *everyone* ?

I suppose that's just because we're too laid
back, our attitude is that no-one's gong to want to attack us and we've
nothing to steal which anyone would want.

There's loads of dead folk who thought that Mary .. ;-(

Not as many as those dead folks who die on the road.

Tangent argument. In any case most of us wear our safety belts, drive
safely etc etc. We don't *not* do these things because 'it may never
happen to me' ?

You don't drive, I take it ... ?

Often (see above)

My car was broken into because they 'assumed' there must be a radio
hidden away somewhere, I mean, what car doesn't have a radio these
days .. well mine ... (as they found out)?

We've been known to leave our car keys in the car door (in those days of
door locks) and in the ignition.

My car randomly unlocks (and more embarrassingly, immobilizes)
itself.*Luckily* it isn't a car most folk would want to steal ..
doesn't stop me trying to minimize the risk though?

And this in a high crime area ...

As is this (Nth London)

If there was it wouldn't matter
anyway ... people are more important than things.

Until you try to replace those 'things' and the insurance company says
you hadn't provided sufficient security?

No insurance. We've paid out thousands over the years, we decided that it
wasn't worth it.

I take it you don't drive then? no buildings or contents insurance?

Ours is the only house in
the street without a burglar alarm. Perhaps we're wrong.

Perhaps you have been lucky?

Or perhaps we don't have the things which people want.

People don't always know that you haven't got anything worth stealing
... and don't know that you would be friendly to them if you met them
face to face in your house at night?


'His' valuables .. and they needn't be 'valuable' in the commercial
sense?

Who would want 'uncommercial' valuables?

Who would want to key a car?


I can hear the doorbell when I leave the key on the inside of our
front door and 'she' wants to get in. But with our multipoint locking
you have to lock the door to stop someone just walking in anytime?

But who's going to do that?

*I* don't know their names but the Police have a list of those who
regularly do and a bigger list of those they want to find out about?


Well, I'm not going to change. If I had a bad experience I might. But you
say that your ladies haven't ...well, that you know of.

I wouldn't want them to take the chance?

So out of interest, are the Neighborhood watch, Security companies,
the Police, Locksmiths, banks, CCTV system suppliers etc all wasting
their time?

I wonder, surely you WOULD know?

Like I said *I'm* obliged to maintain a reasonable level of security
...

All the best ..

T i m

Security 'chain' for uPVC doors?
 

"T i m" wrote in message
...

No insurance. We've paid out thousands over the years, we decided that it
wasn't worth it.

I take it you don't drive then? no buildings or contents insurance?

Sorry, I meant buildings and contents insurance. I thought everyone round
here knew that :-)

Of course we have car and scooter insurance, we're law abiding.

Ours is the only house in
the street without a burglar alarm. Perhaps we're wrong.

Perhaps you have been lucky?

Or perhaps we don't have the things which people want.

People don't always know that you haven't got anything worth stealing
.. and don't know that you would be friendly to them if you met them
face to face in your house at night?

I reckon that all the local lads know everythng in our house. I've said that
the house is locked at night - when we remember.


'His' valuables .. and they needn't be 'valuable' in the commercial
sense?

Who would want 'uncommercial' valuables?

Who would want to key a car?

Um, I don't know what that means.


I can hear the doorbell when I leave the key on the inside of our
front door and 'she' wants to get in. But with our multipoint locking
you have to lock the door to stop someone just walking in anytime?

But who's going to do that?

*I* don't know their names but the Police have a list of those who
regularly do and a bigger list of those they want to find out about?

I wasn't asking for names :-) I do think it's easy to exaggerate risks.
Recently there was a public meeting about a local ginnel which some folk
want closed. I shan't go into the details but someone said that it was
dangerous, people were scared of being mugged and raped every time they
walked through the ginnel. The police were there. I asked them how many
people had been mugged or raped in the ginnel in its seventy year history.

None.

But people are mugged on the main road, someone was shot and killed a couple
of years ago. No-one suggests closing that and people walk along it.

Look, Tim, I'm certainly not saying that you and your ladies are wrong or
that I'm right, it's just different points of view. My personal take is that
I wouldn't want to be looking over my shoulder (as it were) all the time.
Life's too short.


Well, I'm not going to change. If I had a bad experience I might. But you
say that your ladies haven't ...well, that you know of.

I wouldn't want them to take the chance?

Do you allow them to walk down the street without you? People are mugged ...

So out of interest, are the Neighborhood watch, Security companies,
the Police, Locksmiths, banks, CCTV system suppliers etc all wasting
their time?

Not all of them but I do think that fears are played on for the sake of
profit by some companies. I'm officially the NW co-ordinator in this street.
I don't do anything. Don't need to with all the 'protection' people have
installed for themselves - at high costs and, sadly, resulting loneliness.

Bad things which people do to other people are awful but they happen
everywhere, not just in houses. We simply can't protect against everything.
Perhaps I'm too lazy to think of what might happen.

I don't rejoice in advance of possible good luck either :-)

Mary

Security 'chain' for uPVC doors?
 

On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 23:09:37 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


No insurance. We've paid out thousands over the years, we decided that it
wasn't worth it.

I take it you don't drive then? no buildings or contents insurance?

Sorry, I meant buildings and contents insurance. I thought everyone round
here knew that :-)

So you do or do not have:
Contents insurance?
Buildings insurance?


Who would want to key a car?

Um, I don't know what that means.

sigh .. so worldly wise ... when you run a nice big scratch down
the side of someone's car with a key .. seriously though, if you
don't know the risks you can manage them ?



I wasn't asking for names :-) I do think it's easy to exaggerate risks.

Of course.

Recently there was a public meeting about a local ginnel which some folk
want closed. I shan't go into the details but someone said that it was
dangerous, people were scared of being mugged and raped every time they
walked through the ginnel. The police were there. I asked them how many
people had been mugged or raped in the ginnel in its seventy year history.

None.

So they would only be aware of the *reported* instances though then?

But people are mugged on the main road, someone was shot and killed a couple
of years ago. No-one suggests closing that and people walk along it.

Of course, more people will be attacked where there are more people?

Look, Tim, I'm certainly not saying that you and your ladies are wrong or
that I'm right, it's just different points of view.

Of course ;-)

My personal take is that
I wouldn't want to be looking over my shoulder (as it were) all the time.
Life's too short.

There are quite a few places round here that if you were to walk
through them at the wrong time of day (or wearing / doing the wrong
things) you life would be short if you *didn't* look over your
shoulder?

Do you allow them to walk down the street without you? People are mugged ...

The wife rarely walks anywhere (bad knees / no need) and the daughter
will generally be with someone (or her group) during the day and would
be taken / collected by one of us if moving about at night. An older
lady neighbor was mugged at the cash point at the top of the road
recently (lunchtime), many neighbours have been burgled (houses) or
stuff stolen from their outbuildings. Neighbour 3 doors along has had
3 motorbikes stolen out of his front garden (before he moved). I
watched a couple of lads acting suspiciously in Gregs the other day ..
turns out they were stealing a bottle of drink (they say it happens
all the time) and the Police patrol most of the time. The local tramp
was beaten up and had his bike stolen. Yes, we are careful.

So out of interest, are the Neighborhood watch, Security companies,
the Police, Locksmiths, banks, CCTV system suppliers etc all wasting
their time?

Not all of them but I do think that fears are played on for the sake of
profit by some companies.

I'm not aware of any company that would invest thousands of pounds in
security systems / staff if there was no problem to address? Some
local companies are having difficulty getting insurance and this is
not particularly a 'bad place'? Our local Dorothy Perkins fitted a
nice new 'vandal proof covert dome camera system to protect the shops
back entrance for staff exiting / unloading. Lasted two weeks before
it was stolen. Our daughter enrolled in local Tai-quan-do classes ..
in the hope that if something should happen she might just have a
chance ..?


I'm officially the NW co-ordinator in this street.
I don't do anything. Don't need to with all the 'protection' people have
installed for themselves - at high costs

'High costs' compared with rising insurance premiums or the disruption
caused by loosing all your stuff?

and, sadly, resulting loneliness.

Suits us fine. On our door it says "No religious, political, cold
callers or free papers thanks". Last thing I want is the neighbours
wandering in and out taking our sugar! ;-)

Bad things which people do to other people are awful but they happen
everywhere, not just in houses.

Indeed, but I think you will find something like that happening in the
home is more destructive than if it happens outside it?

We simply can't protect against everything.

Correct, but we can resist being 'victims'.. by not being in the wrong
place at the wrong time, not advertising our possessions to all and
sundry (how many un flattened "Huge Plasma TV in here" empty cardboard
boxes do you see sitting like an advert in peoples front gardens)?

Perhaps I'm too lazy to think of what might happen.

Or just a frightening old witch with no valuables? ;-)

I don't rejoice in advance of possible good luck either :-)

Probably (god forbid) just as well! ;-)

Love ..

T i m

Security 'chain' for uPVC doors?
 

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 23:09:37 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


No insurance. We've paid out thousands over the years, we decided that
it
wasn't worth it.

I take it you don't drive then? no buildings or contents insurance?

Sorry, I meant buildings and contents insurance. I thought everyone round
here knew that :-)

So you do or do not have:
Contents insurance?
Buildings insurance?

Neither. We've saved a few thousand since we took the decision not to have
them.


Who would want to key a car?

Um, I don't know what that means.

sigh .. so worldly wise ... when you run a nice big scratch down
the side of someone's car with a key ..

Oh, hereabouts it's called 'pennying'. Most keys don't work on most modern
car finishes, if you sharpen a penny it does.

seriously though, if you
don't know the risks you can manage them ?

I don't understand that.

sigh there's so much I don't know, unlike most people in here :-)


Recently there was a public meeting about a local ginnel which some folk
want closed. I shan't go into the details but someone said that it was
dangerous, people were scared of being mugged and raped every time they
walked through the ginnel. The police were there. I asked them how many
people had been mugged or raped in the ginnel in its seventy year history.

None.

So they would only be aware of the *reported* instances though then?

LOL! You think that if people were mugged or raped they wouldn't report it?

But people are mugged on the main road, someone was shot and killed a
couple
of years ago. No-one suggests closing that and people walk along it.

Of course, more people will be attacked where there are more people?

More people to witness such attacks you mean?



My personal take is that
I wouldn't want to be looking over my shoulder (as it were) all the time.
Life's too short.

There are quite a few places round here that if you were to walk
through them at the wrong time of day (or wearing / doing the wrong
things) you life would be short if you *didn't* look over your
shoulder?

I suggest you move to Chapeltown, the red light, drug and high crime area of
Leeds. That's where we live. Yorkshire Ripper country.

Do you allow them to walk down the street without you? People are mugged
...

The wife rarely walks anywhere (bad knees / no need) and the daughter
will generally be with someone (or her group) during the day and would
be taken / collected by one of us if moving about at night.

Gosh, our children wouldn't have been seen dead being collected by parents!
They'd have lost all their street cred.

An older
lady neighbor was mugged at the cash point at the top of the road
recently (lunchtime), many neighbours have been burgled (houses) or
stuff stolen from their outbuildings. Neighbour 3 doors along has had
3 motorbikes stolen out of his front garden (before he moved). I
watched a couple of lads acting suspiciously in Gregs the other day ..
turns out they were stealing a bottle of drink (they say it happens
all the time) and the Police patrol most of the time. The local tramp
was beaten up and had his bike stolen. Yes, we are careful.

Would a chain on a plastic door have prevented any of those things though?
That's what the question was about.

So out of interest, are the Neighborhood watch, Security companies,
the Police, Locksmiths, banks, CCTV system suppliers etc all wasting
their time?

Not all of them but I do think that fears are played on for the sake of
profit by some companies.

I'm not aware of any company that would invest thousands of pounds in
security systems / staff if there was no problem to address?

It's called selling. Salesmen can sell anything to anyone (except to us),
they use figures and statistics and ... gullibility. Yes, even when talking
to companies. I've seen it happen.

Some
local companies are having difficulty getting insurance and this is
not particularly a 'bad place'? Our local Dorothy Perkins fitted a
nice new 'vandal proof covert dome camera system to protect the shops
back entrance for staff exiting / unloading. Lasted two weeks before
it was stolen. Our daughter enrolled in local Tai-quan-do classes ..
in the hope that if something should happen she might just have a
chance ..?

I really think you should move to somewhere which speaks English. Like
Chapeltow ... oh. Um. we have thirty odd languages in the parish. Forget
that -)


I'm officially the NW co-ordinator in this street.
I don't do anything. Don't need to with all the 'protection' people have
installed for themselves - at high costs

'High costs' compared with rising insurance premiums or the disruption
caused by loosing all your stuff?

Well, in our case the answer would be yes. But we haven't spent huge sums on
protection.

I tell a lie. We spent a lot of time and money and effort in building a high
fence round our back garden. Any human invader would need a ladder to get
over it. It was to keep out fox. Our chickens are more important than
anything anyone would want to steal from us.

and, sadly, resulting loneliness.

Suits us fine. On our door it says "No religious, political, cold
callers or free papers thanks". Last thing I want is the neighbours
wandering in and out taking our sugar! ;-)

Most of our neighbours can't read English so such notices would be useless.
But are you saying, honestly, that your neighbours would want to steal your
sugar? If so, give them some. Are you saying that you don't talk to your
neighbours? That you live in a little cocoon, with no social interaction
except with each other?

Bad things which people do to other people are awful but they happen
everywhere, not just in houses.

Indeed, but I think you will find something like that happening in the
home is more destructive than if it happens outside it?

I can't see why.

We simply can't protect against everything.

Correct, but we can resist being 'victims'.. by not being in the wrong
place at the wrong time, not advertising our possessions to all and
sundry (how many un flattened "Huge Plasma TV in here" empty cardboard
boxes do you see sitting like an advert in peoples front gardens)?

I've never looked. But we weren't talking about advertising possessions, it
was about a chain on the door.

Perhaps I'm too lazy to think of what might happen.

Or just a frightening old witch with no valuables? ;-)

Not frightening enough to stop people coming to talk to us, borrow things,
asking advice and the like. Nor a witch, the local loony is a better
description but it doesn't put anyone off.

I don't rejoice in advance of possible good luck either :-)

Probably (god forbid) just as well! ;-)

I don't understand that either.

Mary