I find that large diameter heat shrink sleeving which is large enough to
passes over wide parts of my cables does not contract enough to hold the
actaul cable when they are heated heated.

Is it possible in the UK to buy just one or two rolls of heat shrink
TAPE? I mean something similar to regular self-adhesive PVC insulation
tape but which contracts when heated. Does such a thing exist?

My web searches such as this one at Farnell's http://snipurl.com/skla
return heat shrink SLEEVES which is not what I want.

"Alix" wrote in message
...
I find that large diameter heat shrink sleeving which is large enough to
passes over wide parts of my cables does not contract enough to hold the
actaul cable when they are heated heated.

Is it possible in the UK to buy just one or two rolls of heat shrink
TAPE? I mean something similar to regular self-adhesive PVC insulation
tape but which contracts when heated. Does such a thing exist?

My web searches such as this one at Farnell's http://snipurl.com/skla
return heat shrink SLEEVES which is not what I want.

Search for "Self Amalgamating Tape"

Alix wrote:

I find that large diameter heat shrink sleeving which is large enough to
passes over wide parts of my cables does not contract enough to hold the
actaul cable when they are heated heated.

Is it possible in the UK to buy just one or two rolls of heat shrink
TAPE? I mean something similar to regular self-adhesive PVC insulation
tape but which contracts when heated. Does such a thing exist?

My web searches such as this one at Farnell's http://snipurl.com/skla
return heat shrink SLEEVES which is not what I want.

I've never seen or heard of such a product. Perhaps self-amalgamating tape
will do what you want?

http://tinyurl.com/fgp2f

HTH

Chris

--
Remove prejudice to reply.

Who? wrote:


"Alix" wrote in message
...
I find that large diameter heat shrink sleeving which is large enough to
passes over wide parts of my cables does not contract enough to hold the
actaul cable when they are heated heated.

Is it possible in the UK to buy just one or two rolls of heat shrink
TAPE? I mean something similar to regular self-adhesive PVC insulation
tape but which contracts when heated. Does such a thing exist?

My web searches such as this one at Farnell's http://snipurl.com/skla
return heat shrink SLEEVES which is not what I want.

Search for "Self Amalgamating Tape"

Curses! Beaten by 4 minutes!

Chris

--
Remove prejudice to reply.

On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 09:34:53 +0100, Alix wrote:

I find that large diameter heat shrink sleeving which is large enough to
passes over wide parts of my cables does not contract enough to hold the
actaul cable when they are heated heated.

Is it possible in the UK to buy just one or two rolls of heat shrink
TAPE? I mean something similar to regular self-adhesive PVC insulation
tape but which contracts when heated. Does such a thing exist?

My web searches such as this one at Farnell's http://snipurl.com/skla
return heat shrink SLEEVES which is not what I want.


http://rswww.com

50m Roll 20mm wide 0.07mm thick 130 deg C shrink temp
Stock Code 170-5403
£13.15


--

On 01 Jul 2006, wrote:


"Alix" wrote in message
...
I find that large diameter heat shrink sleeving which is large
enough to
passes over wide parts of my cables does not contract enough to
hold the actaul cable when they are heated heated.

Is it possible in the UK to buy just one or two rolls of heat
shrink TAPE? I mean something similar to regular self-adhesive
PVC insulation tape but which contracts when heated. Does such a
thing exist?

My web searches such as this one at Farnell's
http://snipurl.com/skla return heat shrink SLEEVES which is not
what I want.

Search for "Self Amalgamating Tape"

I am the OP. The only time I used self-amalgamating tape it was a
squishy thing when it was finished. I would much rather have
something "drier" and less sticky as a final finish.

In article ,
Alix wrote:
I find that large diameter heat shrink sleeving which is large enough to
passes over wide parts of my cables does not contract enough to hold the
actaul cable when they are heated heated.

Is it possible in the UK to buy just one or two rolls of heat shrink
TAPE? I mean something similar to regular self-adhesive PVC insulation
tape but which contracts when heated. Does such a thing exist?

I doubt it as the principle is flawed.

Have you tried the type of heat shrink with the glue inside? That's what I
use for the more demanding apps.

My web searches such as this one at Farnell's http://snipurl.com/skla
return heat shrink SLEEVES which is not what I want.

--
*A closed mouth gathers no feet.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Alix wrote:
I am the OP. The only time I used self-amalgamating tape it was a
squishy thing when it was finished. I would much rather have
something "drier" and less sticky as a final finish.

Self amalgamating tape isn't sticky. But it's not really a substitute for
heat shrink.

--
*Why is it that most nudists are people you don't want to see naked?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Alix wrote:
I find that large diameter heat shrink sleeving which is large enough to
passes over wide parts of my cables does not contract enough to hold the
actaul cable when they are heated heated.

Is it possible in the UK to buy just one or two rolls of heat shrink
TAPE? I mean something similar to regular self-adhesive PVC insulation
tape but which contracts when heated. Does such a thing exist?

My web searches such as this one at Farnell's http://snipurl.com/skla
return heat shrink SLEEVES which is not what I want.

Glue-lined zipper heatshrink tubing. You open up the tubing, lay in the
cables, zip the tubing shut and apply heat. Aftrwards, cut off the
zipper along its length with a craft knife, to leave a round cable.
Handy for all those time when you can't get a tube over the end
(especially in the middle of a cable run, replacing a section of damaged
cable..).

The result is a totally water and air-tight cable assembly - as the glue
exudes out of the ends of the tube to make a perfect seal.

But rather over-kill for inside a PC. Spiral wrap is cheaper and more
flexible - as it allows all the cables to be wrapped together, with
cables exiting from the spiral wrap at intermediate points. It comes in
a range or diameters.

--
Sue

It sounds like you are trying to sheath cables?
o Use expanding nylon braid for around the cables
---- expands as large as you want
o Use adhesive lined heatshrink for the ends only
---- glue melts into the braiding to stop it coming apart
---- plain heatshrink can slide off the braiding

That will retain flexibility except around the adhesive
lined heatshrink ends which will be a bit rigid. That can
be minimised by using very short pieces of heatshrink,
since it is the glue that seals the nylon braiding together.

Spiral wrap comes in several sizes - small o.d. to large o.d.,
the large o.d. is useful re cables exiting everywhere (5.25").

Self amalgamating tape is for outside applications really.
It is not really suited here, it can make a right mess.

Try to aim for 3:1 low temp heatshrink vs 2:1 high temp.
Quality heatshrink costs a little more, but is worth it.

Alternatively use...
o More cable ties along the cable to keep wires bundled more
o Velcro cable fasteners to bundle cables up as needed

Most supermarkets carry pk5-6 velcro cable ties for 79-99p.
They work well re not damaging cables, easily undone/redone.

To join wires - spiral-bare-ends-into-one-another vs overlap-twist,
it results in a better connection, less sharp points thro heatshrink.
Note very large heatshrink will readily split on any sharp objects,
and becomes rigidised (shrink increases wall thickness), so it is
far better to use nylon braiding than heatshrink for sleeving.
--
Dorothy Bradbury
www.dorothybradbury.co.uk for quiet Panaflo & NMB-MAT fans

Alix wrote:
I find that large diameter heat shrink sleeving which is large
enough to passes over wide parts of my cables does not contract
enough to hold the actaul cable when they are heated heated.

Is it possible in the UK to buy just one or two rolls of heat
shrink TAPE? I mean something similar to regular self-adhesive
PVC insulation tape but which contracts when heated. Does such a
thing exist?

My web searches such as this one at Farnell's
http://snipurl.com/skla return heat shrink SLEEVES which is not
what I want.

On 01 Jul 2006, wrote:

Glue-lined zipper heatshrink tubing. You open up the tubing, lay in
the cables, zip the tubing shut and apply heat. Aftrwards, cut off
the zipper along its length with a craft knife, to leave a round
cable. Handy for all those time when you can't get a tube over the
end (especially in the middle of a cable run, replacing a section
of damaged cable..).

"Zip the tubing shut"? This sounds clever. Do you have a link to
where this product is shown?


The result is a totally water and air-tight cable assembly - as the
glue exudes out of the ends of the tube to make a perfect seal.

Just what I want.


But rather over-kill for inside a PC. Spiral wrap is cheaper and
more flexible - as it allows all the cables to be wrapped together,
with cables exiting from the spiral wrap at intermediate points. It
comes in a range or diameters.


It's not inside a PC but outside. For example, I have a mic cable
which plugs into the PC. It has a joint which I have made and the
cable gets moved a lot. Most of the PVC insulating tape I have seen
starts to open up or even unravel under the repeated flexing. So I
want to seal the insulating tape on the joint or to replace it
entirely with something which canbe sealed and not need any further
attention.

On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 11:32:37 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Alix wrote:
I find that large diameter heat shrink sleeving which is large enough to
passes over wide parts of my cables does not contract enough to hold the
actaul cable when they are heated heated.

Is it possible in the UK to buy just one or two rolls of heat shrink
TAPE? I mean something similar to regular self-adhesive PVC insulation
tape but which contracts when heated. Does such a thing exist?

I doubt it as the principle is flawed.

No it works, as posted 3 hours ago in Message-ID:


http://rswww.com

50m Roll 20mm wide 0.07mm thick 130 deg C shrink temp
Stock Code 170-5403
£13.15


--

www.cpc.co.uk do heatshrink & adhesive lined, including 4:1 shrink.

Shortest length is 1.2m, if you just need a small piece indicate
a) what size o.d. you need to fit over things and b) end size o.d.

Where o.d. is overall diameter. I may have the right size free.

Noted adhesive lined will not be flexible once shrunk, it will
be rigid and can force cables to break. If the cable is not moved
much this is not really important - if it is, layer non heatshrink.
--
DB.

On 01 Jul 2006, Dorothy Bradbury
wrote:

It sounds like you are trying to sheath cables?
o Use expanding nylon braid for around the cables
---- expands as large as you want

Is there some way to stop this braid siding off the joint. It sounds
as if it is in the right ball-park but I don't want it to slide of a
frequently flexed joint such as one I made on my mic cable.

o Use adhesive lined heatshrink for the ends only
---- glue melts into the braiding to stop it coming apart
---- plain heatshrink can slide off the braiding

That will retain flexibility except around the adhesive
lined heatshrink ends which will be a bit rigid. That can
be minimised by using very short pieces of heatshrink,
since it is the glue that seals the nylon braiding together.

SOmeone esle mentioned this too. Where on the net can I see see and
get it from?


Spiral wrap comes in several sizes - small o.d. to large o.d.,
the large o.d. is useful re cables exiting everywhere (5.25").

My need is for a single cable and not to tidily group several cables
together.

Self amalgamating tape is for outside applications really.
It is not really suited here, it can make a right mess.

Try to aim for 3:1 low temp heatshrink vs 2:1 high temp.
Quality heatshrink costs a little more, but is worth it.

Uh oh. This is clever stuff. I havd never though of a ratio of
normal to shrunk dimensions.

Once the heat-shrink has shrunk does it exert a force/tension or does
it shirnk to a new reduced dimension but without any significant
grip? IYSWIM.


Alternatively use...
o More cable ties along the cable to keep wires bundled more
o Velcro cable fasteners to bundle cables up as needed

Most supermarkets carry pk5-6 velcro cable ties for 79-99p.
They work well re not damaging cables, easily undone/redone.

I used to love the velcro ties. Now I prefer those green plastic
plant ties with the long oblong hole which can be undone with a
single tug.


To join wires - spiral-bare-ends-into-one-another vs overlap-twist,
it results in a better connection, less sharp points thro
heatshrink.

Interesting to see you make a distinction. However I can not quite
see the difference between the two methods you decribe. Is "spiral-
bare-ends" where I bare the end of the wire, twist it so the strands
are spiralled together and then, um, how do I do "into one another"?

Presumably "overlap-twist" is where the bared end of the wire are
each not spiralled together to start with. And then I take the two
bared ends and twist them together. Is that correct? Is this with
the insulated portion of the cables side by side or with each
insulated port of cable on opposing sides before the twisting
together?

Note very large heatshrink will readily split on any sharp objects,
and becomes rigidised (shrink increases wall thickness), so it is
far better to use nylon braiding than heatshrink for sleeving.

Alix wrote:
Alix wrote:

I find that large diameter heat shrink sleeving which is large
enough to passes over wide parts of my cables does not contract
enough to hold the actaul cable when they are heated heated.

Is it possible in the UK to buy just one or two rolls of heat
shrink TAPE? I mean something similar to regular self-adhesive
PVC insulation tape but which contracts when heated. Does such a
thing exist?

My web searches such as this one at Farnell's
http://snipurl.com/skla return heat shrink SLEEVES which is not
what I want.


On 01 Jul 2006, wrote:

Glue-lined zipper heatshrink tubing. You open up the tubing, lay in
the cables, zip the tubing shut and apply heat. Aftrwards, cut off
the zipper along its length with a craft knife, to leave a round
cable. Handy for all those time when you can't get a tube over the
end (especially in the middle of a cable run, replacing a section
of damaged cable..).


"Zip the tubing shut"? This sounds clever. Do you have a link to
where this product is shown?

Just search for "zipper heat shrink tubing". I buy mine from my local
electrical supplies company. It is used a lot to make permanent repairs
to mid-sections of power cables.




The result is a totally water and air-tight cable assembly - as the
glue exudes out of the ends of the tube to make a perfect seal.


Just what I want.



But rather over-kill for inside a PC. Spiral wrap is cheaper and
more flexible - as it allows all the cables to be wrapped together,
with cables exiting from the spiral wrap at intermediate points. It
comes in a range or diameters.



It's not inside a PC but outside. For example, I have a mic cable
which plugs into the PC. It has a joint which I have made and the
cable gets moved a lot. Most of the PVC insulating tape I have seen
starts to open up or even unravel under the repeated flexing. So I
want to seal the insulating tape on the joint or to replace it
entirely with something which canbe sealed and not need any further
attention.

Zipper tubing is *very* inflexible once set. Fine for inline repairs to
cables that will not normally move but not for anything that you want to
flex.

As others have said, self-amalgamating tape sounds like the answer. It
will *not* unravel - as the stuff bonds to itself to make a solid
covering. It will not open up.

If you cover the joint in hot-melt glue and, before the glue has
hardened, wrap the joint with self-amalgamating tape, the result is
almost as good as zipper tube. It can't be used for mains as the
insulation thickness is uncertain (unlike zipper tube, which can be used
for mains voltages and above). Be careful not to burn your fingers...



--
Sue

First check Sue's zip-heatshrink, electrical wholesalers &
such carry it - Newey & Eyre, City Electrical Factors (CEF) etc.
Look in yellow pages, they are scattered in every town/city.


Is there some way to stop this braid siding off the joint. It sounds
as if it is in the right ball-park but I don't want it to slide of a
frequently flexed joint such as one I made on my mic cable.

Nylon overbraid is more for internal PC cables...
o The ends are uncut and will unwind/unbraid readily
o So the ends are covered in a short piece of adhesive heatshrink


Someone esle mentioned this too. Where on the net can I see
see and get it from?

Many places sell it - however if you just want a small piece &
I have the right size available, email, no charge. I need to know
the size it must fit over (eg, a plug) and the end shrunk size.


Once the heat-shrink has shrunk does it exert a force/tension
or does it shirnk to a new reduced dimension but without any
significant grip? IYSWIM.

It will grip quite strongly - but doesn't crush the cable.


Interesting to see you make a distinction. However I can not quite
see the difference between the two methods you decribe. Is "spiral-
bare-ends" where I bare the end of the wire, twist it so the strands
are spiralled together and then, um, how do I do "into one another"?

No...
o Cut the insulation off each end of wire - leaving bare strands
o Push the bare strands of wire-A into those of wire-B
o So each strand slides along the other wires strand
o Slight twist retains it long enough for it to be soldered
o Then slide heatshrink over it

Usual method is people twist wires in parallel together, solder,
then flatten it down to squeeze heatshrink over - not as good.

The zip-able adhesive lined heatshrink accommodates many
diameters - electrical places sell it for outside-sealing cables.
--
DB.

In article ,
Dorothy Bradbury wrote:
Self amalgamating tape is for outside applications really.
It is not really suited here, it can make a right mess.

Eh? It makes no mess at all, as there's no sticky involved. It's rather
like thin PVC insulating tape without the glue. Perhaps the most common
use is car wiring harnesses.

--
*Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Alix wrote:
It's not inside a PC but outside. For example, I have a mic cable
which plugs into the PC. It has a joint which I have made and the
cable gets moved a lot. Most of the PVC insulating tape I have seen
starts to open up or even unravel under the repeated flexing. So I
want to seal the insulating tape on the joint or to replace it
entirely with something which canbe sealed and not need any further
attention.

Best thing is not to have a joint in a flexible cable. A suitable
connector would be a better solution. The snag with heatshrink for this
use is it's not flexible - so the cable flexes immediately before or after
it and breaks. A proper connector will have a rubber gland which sort of
spreads the length of the cable flexing.

The normal mic connector is of course the XLR - but this might be a bit
big and heavy for this use - especially if the PC connector is the
standard mini jack. If the mic and cable is getting a lot of movement, I'd
fit an XLR chassis connector into a suitable instument box and weight or
fix that down and run a cable from there to the PC - and plug the mic
cable into the box. An XLR mic cable is designed to be flexed without
damage.

--
*A bicycle can't stand alone because it's two tyred.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Eh? It makes no mess at all, as there's no sticky involved. It's
rather like thin PVC insulating tape without the glue. Perhaps
the most common use is car wiring harnesses.

That is not self amalgamating tape - that is adhesive-less tape :-)

3 types...
o PVC tape with adhesive
o PVC tape without adhesive - used for looming (eg, car wiring)
o Self amalgamating PVC tape with cold-flowing adhesive

Self amalgamating tape is just that.
--
DB.

On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 13:37:48 GMT, "Dorothy Bradbury"
had this to say:

Eh? It makes no mess at all, as there's no sticky involved. It's
rather like thin PVC insulating tape without the glue. Perhaps
the most common use is car wiring harnesses.

That is not self amalgamating tape - that is adhesive-less tape :-)

3 types...
o PVC tape with adhesive
o PVC tape without adhesive - used for looming (eg, car wiring)
o Self amalgamating PVC tape with cold-flowing adhesive

Self amalgamating tape is just that.

The only self-amalganating tape I've ever come across is
poly-isobutylene (PIB) which is rubbery. It isn't actually sticky, but
does have a rubbery texture. Also, it's not very durable, so it's
normal to further protect it if necessary.

--
Frank Erskine

The only self-amalganating tape I've ever come across is
poly-isobutylene (PIB) which is rubbery. It isn't actually sticky, but
does have a rubbery texture. Also, it's not very durable, so it's
normal to further protect it if necessary.

That's a fourth :-)

There is a sticky version - basically a low temp cold flow adhesive,
if you leave the roll for a few years it ends up a right mess. A very
gummy adhesive, stretchy thin PVC to conform to irregular shapes.
Either Maplin or RS sold it - threw it out long ago.

We could cover politicians in the stuff, would work for years.

Probably a variety right up to the stuff plumbers & transco use.
--
Dorothy Bradbury

In uk.d-i-y, Alix wrote:
It's not inside a PC but outside. For example, I have a mic cable
which plugs into the PC. It has a joint which I have made and the
cable gets moved a lot. Most of the PVC insulating tape I have seen
starts to open up or even unravel under the repeated flexing. So I
want to seal the insulating tape on the joint or to replace it
entirely with something which canbe sealed and not need any further
attention.

Simple lateral solution: Make a loop in the cable with the joint at its
centre...

---------------------------.
----------\----------------------------
| /
'--****--' **** = joint

.... and put some big shrink-wrap tube over the lot.

--
Mike Barnes

On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 13:54:21 GMT, "Dorothy Bradbury"
had this to say:

The only self-amalganating tape I've ever come across is
poly-isobutylene (PIB) which is rubbery. It isn't actually sticky, but
does have a rubbery texture. Also, it's not very durable, so it's
normal to further protect it if necessary.

That's a fourth :-)

There is a sticky version - basically a low temp cold flow adhesive,
if you leave the roll for a few years it ends up a right mess. A very
gummy adhesive, stretchy thin PVC to conform to irregular shapes.

Surely if it relies on glue to hold it together, it can't be
"self-amalgamating" ?

--
Frank Erskine

Surely if it relies on glue to hold it together, it can't be
"self-amalgamating" ?

Of course it can - the glue is solvent or plasticiser loaded
to soften the thin PVC so it cold welds into a solid mass.
The self-amalgamating PVC tape ends up gluing itself in
such a mess that you can't unpeal the roll after a few years.

The rubber etc self-amalgamating stuff you cite is far better.
--
DB.

On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 14:25:46 GMT, "Dorothy Bradbury"
wrote:

Surely if it relies on glue to hold it together, it can't be
"self-amalgamating" ?

Of course it can - the glue is solvent or plasticiser loaded
to soften the thin PVC so it cold welds into a solid mass.
The self-amalgamating PVC tape ends up gluing itself in
such a mess that you can't unpeal the roll after a few years.

I don't think I have come across that one.

I use the RS version which has a layer of silicone (?) release paper
seperating the layers.


The rubber etc self-amalgamating stuff you cite is far better.

I find if it's installed clean straight from the roll & properly
tensioned at the outset. It does indeed self amalgamate and after a
few years cannot be delaminated. Someone skilled in it's application
can make a reasonably good facsimile of a tapered strain relief
grommet with it, a double ended one housing a repair, even. Repairs to
"Henley Solon" soldering iron leads spring to mind from the dim and
distant past.

DG

Alix wrote:
I find that large diameter heat shrink sleeving which is large enough to
passes over wide parts of my cables does not contract enough to hold the
actaul cable when they are heated heated.

Is it possible in the UK to buy just one or two rolls of heat shrink
TAPE? I mean something similar to regular self-adhesive PVC insulation
tape but which contracts when heated. Does such a thing exist?

My web searches such as this one at Farnell's http://snipurl.com/skla
return heat shrink SLEEVES which is not what I want.

There are at least two shrink capacities in shrink wrap. You must have
come across the version that shrinks (I'm out on a limb here, as I was
not the user of this stuff) by so many percent and there was another
that shrank twice as much. I can't give you any further info, other than
it was used in the aerospace industry.

try this link www.shrinkfit.co.uk/heatshrink.html#poly

Dave

I don't think I have come across that one.

You are fortunate - it is a dreadful cheepy version :-)

I use the RS version which has a layer of silicone (?)
release paper seperating the layers.

Sounds decent.
--
DB.

On 01 Jul 2006, Dorothy Bradbury
wrote:

It sounds like you are trying to sheath cables?
o Use expanding nylon braid for around the cables


[clip]

Dorothy, this is off-topic to this thread but I know you are quite
good on fan cooling matters when I asked for some info about the
computer cooling fans you sell on eBay.

This is a pic of the typical sort of room cooling fan I used to see:
http://www.currys.co.uk:80/images/206877_01_huge.jpg

In recent years the tall or tower fans have become popular in the UK.
http://br / http://www.argos.co.uk...112M.jpgbr /

I know fan specialists talk about air volumes moved, noise levels and
stuff like pressure levels (which I don't truly understand).

Can you compare these two styles of room fan to help me understand
which cools the most for the same level of noise.

Thanks!

This is a pic of the typical sort of room cooling fan I used to see:
http://www.currys.co.uk:80/images/206877_01_huge.jpg

Standard desk fan.
o Large diameter 7" - 9" - 12" - 16" axial fan
o Axial fan = high airflow + low pressure + low noise


In recent years the tall or tower fans have become popular in the UK.
http://www.argos.co.uk/wcsstore/argo...3UC142112M.jpg

Standard tower fan.
o Long length 12" - 24" radial fan
o Radial fan = high airflow + high pressure + higher noise


Can you compare these two styles of room fan to help me
understand which cools the most for the same level of noise.

In general...
o Go for a 16" axial fan set to the lowest speed
o Auto-oscillate mechanism may need lubing annually re noise :-)

Tower fans...
o Radial fans are good for overcoming resistance of a filter
---- eg, Honeywell / Duracraft HEPA filter fan
-------- filter imposes huge airflow resistance = radial fan/blower used
o Radial fans in tower fans without filters are more for compact size

Axial fans...
o Axial fans are best for high airflow at lowest noise if big rotor
---- eg, 16" desktop fan set to the slowest settings
-------- no filter so no downside to the low static pressure of the fan

One counter is...
o Some tower fans are Honeywell - who do decent fans / HVAC control
---- in some instances you may find their tower fan is a little quieter
o However Honeywell HEPA tend to be noisier - even later quiet models
---- minimum blower speed / noise is needed to overcome the filter

So you may want to ask if you can plug the thing in whilst the assistant
waits.

Realise high airflow across legs can create ache/pains - you want
0.1-0.4m/sec,
depending on how susceptible the person is to such & the actual room temps.

A window blind can be as/more useful than a fan - also available on Ebay :-)

Thanks.
--
Dorothy Bradbury

In article ,
Dorothy Bradbury wrote:
Eh? It makes no mess at all, as there's no sticky involved. It's
rather like thin PVC insulating tape without the glue. Perhaps
the most common use is car wiring harnesses.

That is not self amalgamating tape - that is adhesive-less tape :-)

3 types...
o PVC tape with adhesive
o PVC tape without adhesive - used for looming (eg, car wiring)
o Self amalgamating PVC tape with cold-flowing adhesive

Self amalgamating tape is just that.

You live and learn. ;-)

--
*Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Lone Ranger wrote:
On 01 Jul 2006, Dorothy Bradbury
wrote:


It sounds like you are trying to sheath cables?
o Use expanding nylon braid for around the cables



[clip]

Dorothy, this is off-topic to this thread but I know you are quite
good on fan cooling matters when I asked for some info about the
computer cooling fans you sell on eBay.

This is a pic of the typical sort of room cooling fan I used to see:
http://www.currys.co.uk:80/images/206877_01_huge.jpg

In recent years the tall or tower fans have become popular in the UK.
http://br / http://www.argos.co....2M.jpgbr /

I know fan specialists talk about air volumes moved, noise levels and
stuff like pressure levels (which I don't truly understand).

Can you compare these two styles of room fan to help me understand
which cools the most for the same level of noise.


If you don't mind an additional opinion to Dorothy's:

Generally large, slow moving fans produce less noise and are more
efficient than small, fast moving ones, for cooling a room.

A centrifugal (radial) fan, of which your tower fan is an example, will
produce a relatively small area of higher pressure, fast moving air.
They tend to be ideal in a trunked system where there is back-pressure
to overcome. Or if a very direct focused air stream is required.

An axial fan, of which your Curry's model is an example, generally moves
a greater volume of air, at lower noise - but only if there is no back
pressure to overcome.

Thus, for cooling a room, where high pressure is not required, an axial
fan will be more effective and quieter. The larger the diameter, the
slower the rotational speed, the quieter and more effective it will be.

For supplying forced cool air through trunking, a radial fan will
generate the pressures needed. The fan can often be sited outside of
living space, so will not be heard..

--
Sue

General tips re room cooling in summer...

Solar gain from direct sunshine is your enemy
o Solar gain can add 5-10oC to a outdoor (shade) air temperature
o Solar gain downstairs can elevate temps markedly upstairs

Minimise solar gain...
o Keep curtains/blinds closed on windows facing the sun
---- directly reflect as much heat back out as possible
o Keep windows closed on windows facing the sun
---- avoid drawing in air heated near brickwork, fascia etc
---- avoid drawing in air heated in the "curtain-to-window" gap

Maximise natural convection...
o Heat rises - so can be used to draw cool air in as hot goes out
---- sash windows -- gap at top & bottom allows hot out, cool in
---- 2 floors -- open windows downstairs & upstairs
o Open windows opposite to those exposed to solar gain
---- sunset gives a marked drop in air temperatures
---- East has sunlight in the a.m., but not for hours by sunset
-------- ideally open windows on a shaded East side downstairs
---- West has sunlight in the p.m. right through to sunset
-------- ideally open windows on the sunset West side upstairs

Generally it can take 22:00-02:00hrs to see a real drop in air temps,
and building fabric itself will solar gain over several days unfortunately.


Cooling systems...
o UK has high humidity even in summer
---- so evaporative coolers don't work so well here as say Arizona
o UK has high solar gain in summer re bricks/windows
---- bricks can be helped by cavity insulation (if you have a cavity :-)
---- windows benefit from both window blinds & curtains combined
o UK is trying HVAC more often, especially in loft conversions
---- key thing is heat rises + solar gain heats
---- both need to be minimised to avoid HVAC struggling away

Generally room fans make a big difference, particularly when combined
with careful window opening to use natural convection & cool night air.


As for which room fan is quieter, you'd actually have to try them.
Honeywell make very good quality fans (commonly radial hence tower),
and may be quieter - certainly of higher quality than the generic desk fans.

Windows roller blinds up to 8ft, perhaps longer, are easy on Ebay, 29-35ukp.
They are effective for stopping room contents (& curtains) fading, and in
particular stopping UV degradation of materials - especially curtain
linings.

Working on the floor may sound odd, but it's a lot cooler down there :-)
A cool drink (fridge to cool drink cheaper than running a chiller) and a
cool shower/bath do plenty to reduce your temperature.

For PCs, HDs below max op temp (and verify individually because most utils
only report one HD temp if multipled fitted, not always the hottest one).

Small 7" fans of major names (Salton, Pifco etc) can be extremely quiet
on the lowest setting - but ideal in size for placement next to a computer.
--
DB.

On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 12:45:49 +0100, Alix wrote:

It's not inside a PC but outside. For example, I have a mic cable
which plugs into the PC. It has a joint which I have made and the
cable gets moved a lot.

I think your best bet is the rubbery type self amalgamating tape. Careful
application will produce a nice variable flexabilty strain relief. On the
common 2 or 3 mm overall dia PC mic cables and even smaller cores getting
the stuff on can be tricky. The problem is the tension, you need to
stretch it to a good twice it's supplied length. You can get away with
making a narrow strip say 1/2" wide and only and 1" or 2 long, stretching
it then applying it. Most tension is required for the initial stretch,
once streched it doesn't fully spring back so doesn't need as much
tension to apply.

This stuff forms a very good seal and lasts donkeys years outside. I've
taken it of N type aerial conections that have been roof top exposed for
5 years (may be nearer 10 years) and the connectors inside were as
bright and clean as the day I wrapped 'em up.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Alix wrote:
Alix wrote:
I find that large diameter heat shrink sleeving which is large
enough to passes over wide parts of my cables does not contract
enough to hold the actaul cable when they are heated heated.

Is it possible in the UK to buy just one or two rolls of heat
shrink TAPE? I mean something similar to regular self-adhesive
PVC insulation tape but which contracts when heated. Does such a
thing exist?

My web searches such as this one at Farnell's
http://snipurl.com/skla return heat shrink SLEEVES which is not
what I want.

On 01 Jul 2006, wrote:
Glue-lined zipper heatshrink tubing. You open up the tubing, lay in
the cables, zip the tubing shut and apply heat. Aftrwards, cut off
the zipper along its length with a craft knife, to leave a round
cable. Handy for all those time when you can't get a tube over the
end (especially in the middle of a cable run, replacing a section
of damaged cable..).

"Zip the tubing shut"? This sounds clever. Do you have a link to
where this product is shown?


The result is a totally water and air-tight cable assembly - as the
glue exudes out of the ends of the tube to make a perfect seal.

Just what I want.


But rather over-kill for inside a PC. Spiral wrap is cheaper and
more flexible - as it allows all the cables to be wrapped together,
with cables exiting from the spiral wrap at intermediate points. It
comes in a range or diameters.


It's not inside a PC but outside. For example, I have a mic cable
which plugs into the PC. It has a joint which I have made and the
cable gets moved a lot. Most of the PVC insulating tape I have seen
starts to open up or even unravel under the repeated flexing. So I
want to seal the insulating tape on the joint or to replace it
entirely with something which canbe sealed and not need any further
attention.

So use heat shrink TUBING.

"Alix" wrote in message
...
I find that large diameter heat shrink sleeving which is large enough to
passes over wide parts of my cables does not contract enough to hold the
actaul cable when they are heated heated.

Is it possible in the UK to buy just one or two rolls of heat shrink
TAPE? I mean something similar to regular self-adhesive PVC insulation
tape but which contracts when heated. Does such a thing exist?

My web searches such as this one at Farnell's http://snipurl.com/skla
return heat shrink SLEEVES which is not what I want.
It does exist, but is a specialist product, and some forms may even be
'special order' only. The clear version I have used, had a 'UV' activated
adhesive, and you set the glue, before shrinking the tape. The problem is
that most conventional adhesives, do not provide sufficient sheer strength
to take the force that the shrinkage can produce. RS, do a version as part
number 170-5403, which has a thermal welding property, which can work, but
in all honesty, as a 'sealing' product, self amalgamating tape is better.
Remember that the relative 'stiffness' of the heat shrink tape, makes it
very hard to achieve a reliable lap, without leaving holes.

Best Wishes

On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 00:55:12 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Alix wrote:

It's not inside a PC but outside. For example, I have a mic cable
which plugs into the PC. It has a joint which I have made and the
cable gets moved a lot. Most of the PVC insulating tape I have seen
starts to open up or even unravel under the repeated flexing. So I
want to seal the insulating tape on the joint or to replace it
entirely with something which canbe sealed and not need any further
attention.

So use heat shrink TUBING.

Or if it won't fit over the connectors you could even use heat shrink
TAPE.


--

On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 10:36:14 GMT, "Roger Hamlett"
wrote:

"Alix" wrote in message
...
I find that large diameter heat shrink sleeving which is large enough to
passes over wide parts of my cables does not contract enough to hold the
actaul cable when they are heated heated.

Is it possible in the UK to buy just one or two rolls of heat shrink
TAPE? I mean something similar to regular self-adhesive PVC insulation
tape but which contracts when heated. Does such a thing exist?

My web searches such as this one at Farnell's http://snipurl.com/skla
return heat shrink SLEEVES which is not what I want.

It does exist, but is a specialist product,

Not really that specialist, its been available for at least 15 years
from niche suppliers and around 5 years from mainstream distributors.

and some forms may even be
'special order' only. The clear version I have used, had a 'UV' activated
adhesive, and you set the glue, before shrinking the tape. The problem is
that most conventional adhesives, do not provide sufficient sheer strength
to take the force that the shrinkage can produce. RS, do a version as part
number 170-5403,

Really? Despite me posting that exact stock number, its dimensions,
price and shrink temp 28 minutes after the original posting in this
tread you seem to be the only other person on the planet that believes
it even exists. Is news propogation that bad? Are RS really just
taking the **** and listing a line that doesn't exist? Have I really
not been using it for over 10 years?

Roger me senseless Baldrick, I must be going as mad as Dr Dribble.


--

"Matt" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 10:36:14 GMT, "Roger Hamlett"
wrote:

"Alix" wrote in message
...
I find that large diameter heat shrink sleeving which is large enough
to
passes over wide parts of my cables does not contract enough to hold
the
actaul cable when they are heated heated.

Is it possible in the UK to buy just one or two rolls of heat shrink
TAPE? I mean something similar to regular self-adhesive PVC
insulation
tape but which contracts when heated. Does such a thing exist?

My web searches such as this one at Farnell's http://snipurl.com/skla
return heat shrink SLEEVES which is not what I want.

It does exist, but is a specialist product,

Not really that specialist, its been available for at least 15 years
from niche suppliers and around 5 years from mainstream distributors.

and some forms may even be
'special order' only. The clear version I have used, had a 'UV'
activated
adhesive, and you set the glue, before shrinking the tape. The problem
is
that most conventional adhesives, do not provide sufficient sheer
strength
to take the force that the shrinkage can produce. RS, do a version as
part
number 170-5403,

Really? Despite me posting that exact stock number, its dimensions,
price and shrink temp 28 minutes after the original posting in this
tread you seem to be the only other person on the planet that believes
it even exists. Is news propogation that bad? Are RS really just
taking the **** and listing a line that doesn't exist? Have I really
not been using it for over 10 years?

Roger me senseless Baldrick, I must be going as mad as Dr Dribble.
Newsfeeds are by no means instantaneous. I had not seen your reply when I
posted (it has appeared since, so 'yes' propogation _is_ that bad). You
can reckon at times that a posting may take several hours to propogate
round the world, and I have seen emails take over a fortnight (the classic
one is where the email is beaten by the 'snail mail' package it relates
to...). This is why it is particularly important to layout messages, so
that people can see what you are replying to, and not assume that other
people have seen exactly what you have seen (comment to top posters here,
not you!... :-)
If you re-read my reply, you will see that I say the tape, _may_ be
specialist. The RS form, I do not believe to be that good, while the UV
version I have used was only available in large order, from a specialist
supplier. Hence my comment.
The tapes do exist, but RS is one of the few 'end user' suppliers who do a
form in small quantities.

Best Wishes

Matt wrote:

Are RS really just
taking the **** and listing a line that doesn't exist? Have I really
not been using it for over 10 years?

No RS just take the **** with the gawd awful web site.
--

In article ,
nospam wrote:
Are RS really just
taking the **** and listing a line that doesn't exist? Have I really
not been using it for over 10 years?

No RS just take the **** with the gawd awful web site.

They seem to have re-vamped it recently and it's even worse than before on
my browser...

--
*Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.