I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice.
As we are decorating our hall, stairs & landing, my wife has decided that
she'd like some laminate flooring in the hallway. After pulling up the
carpet, I noticed that the floorboards looked a bit damp in places, the
nails are all rusted and the boards are curling across their width.
After lifting a couple of boards it is now evident that the previous
occupant has at some point filled in between the joists with concrete but
without any form of damp proofing so now the joists are like putty, the
concrete is not level.
I thought about about lifting the boards, laying a dpm and just laying new
t&g boards to give a base for the laminate flooring.
My question is - is this a crap idea ?

Many thanks

Franko.

This sounds more serious than your floorboards. How has the mositure
travelled from the concrete to boards, are they in direct contact with
the concrete or has the moisture travelled via the joists? Why was the
concrete added, is it stabilising the building? Is there any
ventilation of any remaining space between concrete and wood? Is there
any sign of wet/dry rot? Are you sure the moisture is permeating
through the cocrete rather than a pipe leaking into the underfloor
void? One possibility may be a layer of ashpalt over the concrete, but
first step is to find out why the concrete was put in.

wrote in message
oups.com...
This sounds more serious than your floorboards. How has the mositure
travelled from the concrete to boards, are they in direct contact with
the concrete or has the moisture travelled via the joists? Why was the
concrete added, is it stabilising the building? Is there any
ventilation of any remaining space between concrete and wood? Is there
any sign of wet/dry rot? Are you sure the moisture is permeating
through the cocrete rather than a pipe leaking into the underfloor
void? One possibility may be a layer of ashpalt over the concrete, but
first step is to find out why the concrete was put in.


Thanks for the swift reply,

I haven't a clue why it was done in the first place, all the other floors in
the house are solid and damp free and seem to have been concreted/screeded
properly at some point in time.
The concrete is near enough level with the joists so the moisture is
reaching the boards via both means.
The joists are rotten and soft.
there is no underfloor void as I presume the concrete has just been
shovelled in between the joists and levelled off roughly - there has been a
thin layer of some sort of bitumen painted on top of the concrete at some
point in time but this is now cracked & bubbled.
I don't think it adds any stability to the building as it is only in the
hallway.

Thanks for any input.

Franko

The message
from "Franko" contains these words:

My question is - is this a crap idea ?

If the joists are like putty then I'd fix that first.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

"Franko" wrote in message
...
I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice.
As we are decorating our hall, stairs & landing, my wife has decided that
she'd like some laminate flooring in the hallway. After pulling up the
carpet, I noticed that the floorboards looked a bit damp in places, the
nails are all rusted and the boards are curling across their width.
After lifting a couple of boards it is now evident that the previous
occupant has at some point filled in between the joists with concrete but
without any form of damp proofing so now the joists are like putty, the
concrete is not level.
I thought about about lifting the boards, laying a dpm and just laying new
t&g boards to give a base for the laminate flooring.
My question is - is this a crap idea ?

Many thanks

Franko.


Did Fred West ever live or work in the house??
Baz

"Baz" wrote in message
...

"Franko" wrote in message
...
I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice.
As we are decorating our hall, stairs & landing, my wife has decided that
she'd like some laminate flooring in the hallway. After pulling up the
carpet, I noticed that the floorboards looked a bit damp in places, the
nails are all rusted and the boards are curling across their width.
After lifting a couple of boards it is now evident that the previous
occupant has at some point filled in between the joists with concrete but
without any form of damp proofing so now the joists are like putty, the
concrete is not level.
I thought about about lifting the boards, laying a dpm and just laying
new t&g boards to give a base for the laminate flooring.
My question is - is this a crap idea ?

Many thanks

Franko.


Did Fred West ever live or work in the house??
Baz
Lol !
I think the missus will want to bury me when I let her know how much work is
involved in putting it all right !
Franko.

The message
from "Baz" contains these words:

Did Fred West ever live or work in the house??

I had a boss once who lived in Nielson's old house. Got it cheap.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Franko wrote:
I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice.
As we are decorating our hall, stairs & landing, my wife has decided that
she'd like some laminate flooring in the hallway. After pulling up the
carpet, I noticed that the floorboards looked a bit damp in places, the
nails are all rusted and the boards are curling across their width.
After lifting a couple of boards it is now evident that the previous
occupant has at some point filled in between the joists with concrete but
without any form of damp proofing so now the joists are like putty, the
concrete is not level.
I thought about about lifting the boards, laying a dpm and just laying new
t&g boards to give a base for the laminate flooring.
My question is - is this a crap idea ?

Many thanks

Franko.



If the joists are that bad, I'd suspect a leak, especially if your mains
supply comes in from the front. You might be able to hear it if you put
your ear to the mains when nothing is being used. Then turn the stopcock
off in the road (if it works) and listen again. Last time I had
experience of this the Water Board ran a test for free and luckily the
fault was just on their side of the wall.

The concrete is near enough level with the joists so the moisture is
reaching the boards via both means.

So effectively, you have a damp concrete floor with some gaps filled with
rotten wood?

I'd remove the rotten joists and fill the gaps with concrete. Then DPM, and
screed over before any wood. If the screed is thin, it'll probably crack
like buggery. If you haven't room to screed at all, you'll just have to lay
the DPM down and put the wood on top, although I can't vouch for longevity.

Better still, remove everything to a reasonable depth and do it properly
with insulation and DPM embedded deeper, which will be more damp resistant
and be up to modern standards. A lot of work, though.

Christian.

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
Franko wrote:
I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice.
As we are decorating our hall, stairs & landing, my wife has decided that
she'd like some laminate flooring in the hallway. After pulling up the
carpet, I noticed that the floorboards looked a bit damp in places, the
nails are all rusted and the boards are curling across their width.
After lifting a couple of boards it is now evident that the previous
occupant has at some point filled in between the joists with concrete but
without any form of damp proofing so now the joists are like putty, the
concrete is not level.
I thought about about lifting the boards, laying a dpm and just laying
new t&g boards to give a base for the laminate flooring.
My question is - is this a crap idea ?

Many thanks
Franko.

If the joists are that bad, I'd suspect a leak, especially if your mains
supply comes in from the front. You might be able to hear it if you put
your ear to the mains when nothing is being used. Then turn the stopcock
off in the road (if it works) and listen again. Last time I had experience
of this the Water Board ran a test for free and luckily the fault was just
on their side of the wall.

Think you could be right Stuart, the water board have been out this
afternoon digging up next doors pretty new block paved front garden - I
asked them if they found a leak and they told me it is just inside the house
!!
Probably been leaking for years for it to rot the joists as bad as this so
it looks like major work for me ahead.
The Missus has just put the finishing touches to all the gloss work today so
I don't think she'll be too pleased !
Franko.

Franko wrote:

Think you could be right Stuart, the water board have been out this
afternoon digging up next doors pretty new block paved front garden - I
asked them if they found a leak and they told me it is just inside the house
!!

How close is their leak to your damp floor?

Chris

wrote in message
ps.com...

Franko wrote:

Think you could be right Stuart, the water board have been out this
afternoon digging up next doors pretty new block paved front garden - I
asked them if they found a leak and they told me it is just inside the
house
!!

How close is their leak to your damp floor?

Chris

Just the other side of the party wall so within about 5 feet minimum.
Franko.

If it's their leak causing your damage, it's highly likely you have a
claim against them. Check they have insurance.

wrote in message
oups.com...
If it's their leak causing your damage, it's highly likely you have a
claim against them. Check they have insurance.

I doubt that I'd have a valid claim if the previous occupier filled the void
between the joists with concrete - besides, i get on well with my neighbour
and would rather not have a good chance of spoiling good neighbour relations
by trying to claim on their insurance.
Looks like I have a busy weekend then :-(
franko.

Franko wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...

Franko wrote:

I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice.
As we are decorating our hall, stairs & landing, my wife has decided that
she'd like some laminate flooring in the hallway. After pulling up the
carpet, I noticed that the floorboards looked a bit damp in places, the
nails are all rusted and the boards are curling across their width.
After lifting a couple of boards it is now evident that the previous
occupant has at some point filled in between the joists with concrete but
without any form of damp proofing so now the joists are like putty, the
concrete is not level.
I thought about about lifting the boards, laying a dpm and just laying
new t&g boards to give a base for the laminate flooring.
My question is - is this a crap idea ?

Many thanks
Franko.

If the joists are that bad, I'd suspect a leak, especially if your mains
supply comes in from the front. You might be able to hear it if you put
your ear to the mains when nothing is being used. Then turn the stopcock
off in the road (if it works) and listen again. Last time I had experience
of this the Water Board ran a test for free and luckily the fault was just
on their side of the wall.


Think you could be right Stuart, the water board have been out this
afternoon digging up next doors pretty new block paved front garden - I
asked them if they found a leak and they told me it is just inside the house
!!
Probably been leaking for years for it to rot the joists as bad as this so
it looks like major work for me ahead.
The Missus has just put the finishing touches to all the gloss work today so
I don't think she'll be too pleased !
Franko.



Either way it should be an insurance job. The important thing to stress
is that you weren't aware of any problem until you took the carpet up,
which you only did to put laminate down. If loss adjusters become
involved, they might say it's a long standing thing that you've allowed
to deteriorate.
I had a similar problem in a house I was working on but that was a vinyl
floor which had insulated the room from the devastation below for
several years, so they accepted the claim.

Franko wrote:
I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice.
As we are decorating our hall, stairs & landing, my wife has decided that
she'd like some laminate flooring in the hallway. After pulling up the
carpet, I noticed that the floorboards looked a bit damp in places, the
nails are all rusted and the boards are curling across their width.
After lifting a couple of boards it is now evident that the previous
occupant has at some point filled in between the joists with concrete but
without any form of damp proofing so now the joists are like putty, the
concrete is not level.
I thought about about lifting the boards, laying a dpm and just laying new
t&g boards to give a base for the laminate flooring.
My question is - is this a crap idea ?

Many thanks

Franko.


Rip it all out and do a concrete/DPM/insulation/screed job on it. Unless
you are selling, in which case lay some supermarket polythene bags over
the boards and then carpet.

Yes, folks, thats how MY house was originally sold to me...;-)

Franko wrote:

I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice.
As we are decorating our hall, stairs & landing, my wife has decided
that she'd like some laminate flooring in the hallway. After pulling up
the carpet, I noticed that the floorboards looked a bit damp in places,
the nails are all rusted and the boards are curling across their width.
After lifting a couple of boards it is now evident that the previous
occupant has at some point filled in between the joists with concrete
but without any form of damp proofing so now the joists are like putty,
the concrete is not level.
I thought about about lifting the boards, laying a dpm and just laying
new t&g boards to give a base for the laminate flooring.
My question is - is this a crap idea ?

Many thanks
Franko.

If the joists are that bad, I'd suspect a leak, especially if your mains
supply comes in from the front. You might be able to hear it if you put
your ear to the mains when nothing is being used. Then turn the stopcock
off in the road (if it works) and listen again. Last time I had
experience of this the Water Board ran a test for free and luckily the
fault was just on their side of the wall.


Think you could be right Stuart, the water board have been out this
afternoon digging up next doors pretty new block paved front garden - I
asked them if they found a leak and they told me it is just inside the
house !!
Probably been leaking for years for it to rot the joists as bad as this
so it looks like major work for me ahead.
The Missus has just put the finishing touches to all the gloss work today
so I don't think she'll be too pleased !
Franko.

Either way it should be an insurance job. The important thing to stress is
that you weren't aware of any problem until you took the carpet up, which
you only did to put laminate down. If loss adjusters become involved, they
might say it's a long standing thing that you've allowed to deteriorate.
I had a similar problem in a house I was working on but that was a vinyl
floor which had insulated the room from the devastation below for several
years, so they accepted the claim.

But surely you cannot put in a claim for the result of a stupid diy error
even if it was dine in ignorance ?
Franko.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Franko wrote:
I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice.
As we are decorating our hall, stairs & landing, my wife has decided that
she'd like some laminate flooring in the hallway. After pulling up the
carpet, I noticed that the floorboards looked a bit damp in places, the
nails are all rusted and the boards are curling across their width.
After lifting a couple of boards it is now evident that the previous
occupant has at some point filled in between the joists with concrete but
without any form of damp proofing so now the joists are like putty, the
concrete is not level.
I thought about about lifting the boards, laying a dpm and just laying
new t&g boards to give a base for the laminate flooring.
My question is - is this a crap idea ?

Many thanks

Franko.
Rip it all out and do a concrete/DPM/insulation/screed job on it. Unless
you are selling, in which case lay some supermarket polythene bags over
the boards and then carpet.

Yes, folks, thats how MY house was originally sold to me...;-)

I think I'll go for the former option, I'd feel guilty forever if I sold the
house at some point knowing that I'd bodged a job for someone else to find
in the future and curse me, I still run through jobs in my mind that i did
in my last house over 10 years ago wondering if I did everything correctly !
Franko.

Franko wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
If it's their leak causing your damage, it's highly likely you have a
claim against them. Check they have insurance.

I doubt that I'd have a valid claim if the previous occupier filled the void
between the joists with concrete - besides, i get on well with my neighbour
and would rather not have a good chance of spoiling good neighbour relations
by trying to claim on their insurance.
Looks like I have a busy weekend then :-(
franko.

An insurance claim doesn't have to be acrimonious. Your neighbours may
feel guilty if they discover their leak involved you in work and
expense and you _didn't_ claim. In any case, AIUI, you claim on _your_
insurance and the insurance companies fight it out. How much is your
excess? If you are going to claim, don't touch anything until the
assessor has looked at it.

Your flooring -- concrete with embedded wood battens to take the nails
-- is not unusual, whether original or a previous DIY. After a similar
incident on such professionally laid flooring, I was told that mould
spores from the wood can permeate the concrete so this may have to be
replaced too or the new floorboards will rot. OTOH it could just have
been a builder on a job creation scheme and a douse with fungicide
would be enough. What does the panel think?

Chris

Guy King wrote:

The message
from "Baz" contains these words:

Did Fred West ever live or work in the house??

I had a boss once who lived in Nielson's old house. Got it cheap.


I worked with a bloke who was formerly Nielson's boss in the Civil Service.

Tim

Franko wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Franko wrote:
I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice.
As we are decorating our hall, stairs & landing, my wife has
decided that she'd like some laminate flooring in the hallway.
After pulling up the carpet, I noticed that the floorboards looked
a bit damp in places, the nails are all rusted and the boards are
curling across their width. After lifting a couple of boards it is
now evident that the previous occupant has at some point filled in
between the joists with concrete but without any form of damp
proofing so now the joists are like putty, the concrete is not
level. I thought about about lifting the boards, laying a dpm and just
laying new t&g boards to give a base for the laminate flooring.
My question is - is this a crap idea ?

Many thanks

Franko.
Rip it all out and do a concrete/DPM/insulation/screed job on it.
Unless you are selling, in which case lay some supermarket polythene
bags over the boards and then carpet.

Yes, folks, thats how MY house was originally sold to me...;-)

I think I'll go for the former option, I'd feel guilty forever if I
sold the house at some point knowing that I'd bodged a job for
someone else to find in the future and curse me, I still run through
jobs in my mind that i did in my last house over 10 years ago
wondering if I did everything correctly ! Franko.

How much gap have you got now? - that is to say, how much lower is the
concrete / rotten joists below the other floors in the house?
Is the concrete up to the top of the joists?
If it isn't, you can remove the remainder of the joists and put a few inches
of concrete in, then get it asphalted about half an inch thick, I've seen
asphalt laid over quarry tiles, rough concrete without DPM underneath and
loads of other surfaces without any problems, the asphalt itself is a much
better damp barrier than anything you can buy on a roll.

Franko wrote:
I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice.
As we are decorating our hall, stairs & landing, my wife has
decided that she'd like some laminate flooring in the hallway.
After pulling up the carpet, I noticed that the floorboards looked
a bit damp in places, the nails are all rusted and the boards are
curling across their width. After lifting a couple of boards it is
now evident that the previous occupant has at some point filled in
between the joists with concrete but without any form of damp
proofing so now the joists are like putty, the concrete is not
level. I thought about about lifting the boards, laying a dpm and just
laying new t&g boards to give a base for the laminate flooring.
My question is - is this a crap idea ?

Many thanks

Franko.
Rip it all out and do a concrete/DPM/insulation/screed job on it.
Unless you are selling, in which case lay some supermarket polythene
bags over the boards and then carpet.

Yes, folks, thats how MY house was originally sold to me...;-)

I think I'll go for the former option, I'd feel guilty forever if I
sold the house at some point knowing that I'd bodged a job for
someone else to find in the future and curse me, I still run through
jobs in my mind that i did in my last house over 10 years ago
wondering if I did everything correctly ! Franko.

How much gap have you got now? - that is to say, how much lower is the
concrete / rotten joists below the other floors in the house?
Is the concrete up to the top of the joists?
If it isn't, you can remove the remainder of the joists and put a few
inches of concrete in, then get it asphalted about half an inch thick,
I've seen asphalt laid over quarry tiles, rough concrete without DPM
underneath and loads of other surfaces without any problems, the asphalt
itself is a much better damp barrier than anything you can buy on a roll.
The concrete is just about level with the top of the joists and level with
the other floors in the house.
I've had another think about it and may just latex the surface to flatten it
all off, lay a polythene dpm, new t&g floorboards and top it off with the
laminate.
The neighbours leak has been fixed so I can't see a problem with water
pressure forcing any water through the latex although I realise that the
damp will still rise through capillary action but I'm hoping that the dpm
should hold that back.
I'm not too worried about the joists at this time as the concrete seems to
add support to the structure.
Any thoughts on this course of action ?
Franko.

Franko wrote:
I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice.
As we are decorating our hall, stairs & landing, my wife has
decided that she'd like some laminate flooring in the hallway.
After pulling up the carpet, I noticed that the floorboards looked
a bit damp in places, the nails are all rusted and the boards are
curling across their width. After lifting a couple of boards it is
now evident that the previous occupant has at some point filled in
between the joists with concrete but without any form of damp
proofing so now the joists are like putty, the concrete is not
level. I thought about about lifting the boards, laying a dpm and just
laying new t&g boards to give a base for the laminate flooring.
My question is - is this a crap idea ?

Many thanks

Franko.
Rip it all out and do a concrete/DPM/insulation/screed job on it.
Unless you are selling, in which case lay some supermarket polythene
bags over the boards and then carpet.

Yes, folks, thats how MY house was originally sold to me...;-)

I think I'll go for the former option, I'd feel guilty forever if I
sold the house at some point knowing that I'd bodged a job for
someone else to find in the future and curse me, I still run through
jobs in my mind that i did in my last house over 10 years ago
wondering if I did everything correctly ! Franko.

How much gap have you got now? - that is to say, how much lower is the
concrete / rotten joists below the other floors in the house?
Is the concrete up to the top of the joists?
If it isn't, you can remove the remainder of the joists and put a few
inches of concrete in, then get it asphalted about half an inch thick,
I've seen asphalt laid over quarry tiles, rough concrete without DPM
underneath and loads of other surfaces without any problems, the asphalt
itself is a much better damp barrier than anything you can buy on a roll.

The neighbours leak has been fixed so I can't see a problem with water
pressure forcing any water through the latex although I realise that the
damp will still rise through capillary action but I'm hoping that the dpm
should hold that back.
I'm not too worried about the joists at this time as the concrete seems to
add support to the structure.
Any thoughts on this course of action ?
Franko.

Franko wrote:
Franko wrote:

I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice.
As we are decorating our hall, stairs & landing, my wife has
decided that she'd like some laminate flooring in the hallway.
After pulling up the carpet, I noticed that the floorboards looked
a bit damp in places, the nails are all rusted and the boards are
curling across their width. After lifting a couple of boards it is
now evident that the previous occupant has at some point filled in
between the joists with concrete but without any form of damp
proofing so now the joists are like putty, the concrete is not
level. I thought about about lifting the boards, laying a dpm and just
laying new t&g boards to give a base for the laminate flooring.
My question is - is this a crap idea ?

Many thanks

Franko.

Rip it all out and do a concrete/DPM/insulation/screed job on it.
Unless you are selling, in which case lay some supermarket polythene
bags over the boards and then carpet.

Yes, folks, thats how MY house was originally sold to me...;-)

I think I'll go for the former option, I'd feel guilty forever if I
sold the house at some point knowing that I'd bodged a job for
someone else to find in the future and curse me, I still run through
jobs in my mind that i did in my last house over 10 years ago
wondering if I did everything correctly ! Franko.

How much gap have you got now? - that is to say, how much lower is the
concrete / rotten joists below the other floors in the house?
Is the concrete up to the top of the joists?
If it isn't, you can remove the remainder of the joists and put a few
inches of concrete in, then get it asphalted about half an inch thick,
I've seen asphalt laid over quarry tiles, rough concrete without DPM
underneath and loads of other surfaces without any problems, the asphalt
itself is a much better damp barrier than anything you can buy on a roll.


The neighbours leak has been fixed so I can't see a problem with water
pressure forcing any water through the latex although I realise that the
damp will still rise through capillary action but I'm hoping that the dpm
should hold that back.
I'm not too worried about the joists at this time as the concrete seems to
add support to the structure.
Any thoughts on this course of action ?
Franko.



There's only one course of action. Ring your insurance company. :-)

I really would get this assessed by the insurance company. There may be
other serious damage that you are unaware of, e.g. undermining of
foundations as the subsoil is slowly flushed away.

Generally I'm relucanat to make an insurance claim, but there's a point
at which you need to say "This is what I bought insurance for".

The message . com
from " contains these words:

Generally I'm relucanat to make an insurance claim, but there's a point
at which you need to say "This is what I bought insurance for".

Like my parents in law. The burst pipe in the loft (away for a week) had
run to nearly 25 grand so far.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.