Hello All

I have (waves arms) about 10m2 of concrete that's 2-4" thick. I need
to get rid of it so I can lay some decent paving without going about
the DPC of the house.

I was wondering, would a biggist cheap SDS drill do this? (I'm
thinking of the 2kg 40 quid Ferm jobbies in Screwfix). Even if that
takes a bit longer than a hired breaker I'd be happy as I'd have
another tool at the end of it, but would it actually do the job?

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK
uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/

the easiest thing to break concrete at 2-3 inches is a sledge hammer. Once
you have the edge broken it goes very quickly. At 3-4 inches you may well
find that you need to hire a heavy breaker. Your SDS drill will not do it.
You may well buy a new one then use it and it may break to start with but I
am sure that by the end you will need a new SDS drill as it will have worn
out

Simon Avery wrote:

I have (waves arms) about 10m2 of concrete that's 2-4" thick. I need
to get rid of it so I can lay some decent paving without going about
the DPC of the house.

I was wondering, would a biggist cheap SDS drill do this? (I'm
thinking of the 2kg 40 quid Ferm jobbies in Screwfix). Even if that
takes a bit longer than a hired breaker I'd be happy as I'd have
another tool at the end of it, but would it actually do the job?

Don't bother with a cheapo SDS Simon, it'll die long before that
job is done. Yes it'll be under warranty, but that's another
trip to the shop etc.

As AndyM said, hire a kango for £20 - should make a very quick
job of it.

If you want an SDS, spend £100 on a DeWalt 566 - you won't
regret it. But I still wouldn't want to do that area with it,
takes too long.

--
Grunff

On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:04:26 +0100, wanderer wrote:

Wimp! Saw Charlie Dimmock breaking up a larger area than that on the
TV, using a sledge and a bar!

Quite. two people, one long crowbar and a sledge hammer. Once you have
got under an edge(*) just prise it up a few inches and whack it with
the sledge, at a point where it has no support underneath. Concrete is
excellent in compression but next to useless in tension, thats why you
have to put reenforcement into it for areas that are in tension.

(*) That might be the bit you need a power breaker for but a cold
chisel an lump hammer will do.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

the easiest thing to break concrete at 2-3 inches is a sledge hammer. Once
you have the edge broken it goes very quickly.

Or a pickaxe, I reckon the more concentrated impact from a pick starts cracks
better, and you can alternate between thumping and levering.

But I agree with the others, this is a Kango job

"wanderer" wrote:

Hello wanderer

breaker I'd be happy as I'd have another tool at the end
of it, but would it actually do the job?
w| Wimp! Saw Charlie Dimmock breaking up a larger area than
w| that on the TV, using a sledge and a bar!

Yeah, but you've seen where she keeps her muscles...

I tried it with a bar, nothing doing. It's not a nice big flat slab
you can get underneath, it's a 4' wide strip between two buildings,
including a large haunch to one.

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK
uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/

Grunff wrote:

Hello Grunff

I have (waves arms) about 10m2 of concrete that's 2-4"
thick. I need to get rid of it so I can lay some decent
paving without going about the DPC of the house. I was
wondering, would a biggist cheap SDS drill do this?

G| Don't bother with a cheapo SDS Simon, it'll die long before
G| that job is done. Yes it'll be under warranty, but that's
G| another trip to the shop etc.

Yeah, and I've already got a few cheap tools that expired but I never
got around to taking 'em back.

G| As AndyM said, hire a kango for £20 - should make a very
G| quick job of it.

Gotya, and thanks for all the replies. I'll do that over a weekend
soon. (Got me little trailer to refurb first though)

G| If you want an SDS, spend £100 on a DeWalt 566 - you won't
G| regret it. But I still wouldn't want to do that area with
G| it, takes too long.

Understood. I don't really have a need at the moment for one, and the
bosche 20 quid normal drill I bought 7 years ago is still doing a good
enough job for me.

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK
uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/

In message , Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:04:26 +0100, wanderer wrote:

Wimp! Saw Charlie Dimmock breaking up a larger area than that on the
TV, using a sledge and a bar!

Quite. two people, one long crowbar and a sledge hammer. Once you have
got under an edge(*) just prise it up a few inches and whack it with
the sledge, at a point where it has no support underneath. Concrete is
excellent in compression but next to useless in tension, thats why you
have to put reenforcement into it for areas that are in tension.

Don't forget, it's much easier to break if you can undermine it (i.e.
remove whatever is underneath it)
--
geoff

In message , OldScrawn
writes
the easiest thing to break concrete at 2-3 inches is a sledge hammer. Once
you have the edge broken it goes very quickly.

Or a pickaxe, I reckon the more concentrated impact from a pick starts cracks
better, and you can alternate between thumping and levering.

But I agree with the others, this is a Kango job

Nah a sledgehammer

--
geoff

On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:17:45 +0100, geoff wrote:

Don't forget, it's much easier to break if you can undermine it (i.e.
remove whatever is underneath it)

If you can get underneath it then one good way of breaking up the
concrete block is to light a fire underneath, then sit back and wait.

That's one of the methods that they used in days gone by to bring down
the walls of a fortress - dig a hole beneath the castle wall, fill it
with firewood, set it alight, then have a party whilst the castle
dwellers shat themselves knowing what was going to happen.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

In message , wanderer
writes
"Simon Avery" wrote in message
...

I was wondering, would a biggist cheap SDS drill do this? (I'm
thinking of the 2kg 40 quid Ferm jobbies in Screwfix). Even if that
takes a bit longer than a hired breaker I'd be happy as I'd have
another tool at the end of it, but would it actually do the job?

Wimp! Saw Charlie Dimmock breaking up a larger area than that on the TV,
using a sledge and a bar!

Well, yeah, but surely the point is that Simon is really just looking
for an excuse to buy a new toy :-)

Not that the rest of us would do any such thing g

--
Graeme

"Andrew McKay" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:17:45 +0100, geoff wrote:

Don't forget, it's much easier to break if you can undermine it (i.e.
remove whatever is underneath it)

If you can get underneath it then one good way of breaking up the
concrete block is to light a fire underneath, then sit back and wait.

That's one of the methods that they used in days gone by to bring down
the walls of a fortress - dig a hole beneath the castle wall, fill it
with firewood, set it alight, then have a party whilst the castle
dwellers shat themselves knowing what was going to happen.

You do need to have a large stone tower on top of it for this to work
though. The bit you missed out is that, as they dug under the defences, the
miners put in a large number of very heavy wooden supports, to stop the
tower falling down on top of them. The fire was to burn the wood away,
allowing the tower to fall under its own weight. Fred Dibnah demonstrated
this technique on TV, when he was demolishing a building. He also
demonstrated how difficult it is to know just when the timber is about to
give way and ended up running off the site as bits of masonry started to
fall.

Colin Bignell

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:34:12 +0100, nightjar wrote:

You do need to have a large stone tower on top of it for this to work
though. The bit you missed out is that, as they dug under the defences, the
miners put in a large number of very heavy wooden supports, to stop the
tower falling down on top of them. The fire was to burn the wood away,
allowing the tower to fall under its own weight. Fred Dibnah demonstrated
this technique on TV, when he was demolishing a building. He also
demonstrated how difficult it is to know just when the timber is about to
give way and ended up running off the site as bits of masonry started to
fall.

You may be correct - but that's not entirely the way I understood it.

Yes, for sure you need to prop up the structure above. But the damage
to the concrete comes about because the concrete gets some localised
heat which it doesn't dissipate very well. And it can't expand and
contract like (for example) a piece of metal. And so it shatters.

However I'm happy to accept that I could be wrong.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

Simon Avery wrote:

Hello All

I have (waves arms) about 10m2 of concrete that's 2-4" thick. I need
to get rid of it so I can lay some decent paving without going about
the DPC of the house.

I was wondering, would a biggist cheap SDS drill do this? (I'm
thinking of the 2kg 40 quid Ferm jobbies in Screwfix). Even if that
takes a bit longer than a hired breaker I'd be happy as I'd have
another tool at the end of it, but would it actually do the job?



If I were you, I'd hire a self drive digger with piointy toothed bucket,
and smash it up and dig it up and put it in teh skip with that.

You can smash screed like that with a sledge, If its really concrete,
its a bit more of a bugger. But a 3tn digger smashing a toothed bucket
down on the lot is pretty hard to resist. Lilewise getting the bucket
under and edge and lifting..

If it's reinforced, all bets are off tho. Concrete saw is about the only
option.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:04:26 +0100, wanderer wrote:


Wimp! Saw Charlie Dimmock breaking up a larger area than that on the
TV, using a sledge and a bar!


Quite. two people, one long crowbar and a sledge hammer. Once you have
got under an edge(*) just prise it up a few inches and whack it with
the sledge, at a point where it has no support underneath. Concrete is
excellent in compression but next to useless in tension, thats why you
have to put reenforcement into it for areas that are in tension.


True, but use a digger. Then you won't have to carry all the bits into
the skip.



(*) That might be the bit you need a power breaker for but a cold
chisel an lump hammer will do.

Simon Avery wrote:

"wanderer" wrote:

Hello wanderer


breaker I'd be happy as I'd have another tool at the end
of it, but would it actually do the job?

w| Wimp! Saw Charlie Dimmock breaking up a larger area than
w| that on the TV, using a sledge and a bar!


Yeah, but you've seen where she keeps her muscles...

I tried it with a bar, nothing doing. It's not a nice big flat slab
you can get underneath, it's a 4' wide strip between two buildings,
including a large haunch to one.


Ah. Barely enough room for a minidigger then.

Kanga, and mini digger if it will get in teh space.

Yeah, but you've seen where she keeps her muscles...

But you've got mares with much bigger muscles than her Simon. Can't you
get a few of them round to do the job...


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"BillR" wrote in message ...
Simon Avery wrote:
Hello All

I have (waves arms) about 10m2 of concrete that's 2-4" thick. I need
to get rid of it so I can lay some decent paving without going about
the DPC of the house.

I was wondering, would a biggist cheap SDS drill do this? (I'm
thinking of the 2kg 40 quid Ferm jobbies in Screwfix). Even if that
takes a bit longer than a hired breaker I'd be happy as I'd have
another tool at the end of it, but would it actually do the job?

sds is not the right tool for this job. Had to do similar area recently,
used a hired kango.
SDS with chisel bit ok for tidying up around the edges

As a few others have pointed out...a BFH is your best and cheapest
option. I smashed up about 20 square metres of contrete slabs on top
of about 6" of conrete & hardcore...the sledgehammer head weighs about
10kg....picture your mother in laws face on the concrete....BAM! A
nice bif crowbar helps too..

The hard bit was getting rid of the concrete...my local dump will only
take 5 bags of rubble...when i turned up there with two tons in a
trailer and another ton in the back of the truck.... Had to pay £10
per load at another "commercial" dump...still cheaper than a skip
though...

In article , Simon Avery
writes
I have (waves arms) about 10m2 of concrete that's 2-4" thick. I need
to get rid of it so I can lay some decent paving without going about
the DPC of the house.

I was wondering, would a biggist cheap SDS drill do this? (I'm
thinking of the 2kg 40 quid Ferm jobbies in Screwfix). Even if that
takes a bit longer than a hired breaker I'd be happy as I'd have
another tool at the end of it, but would it actually do the job?

I'd doubt it, but you could drill lots of holes all over the concrete,
pack them all with timber and wait for rain...

On the other hand, you could ask your local scout troop to smash it up
for you with a few sledge hammers. That's the *best* way of saving
effort -- get someone else to do it!

--
Paul

In message , Graeme
writes
In message , wanderer
writes
"Simon Avery" wrote in message
...

I was wondering, would a biggist cheap SDS drill do this? (I'm
thinking of the 2kg 40 quid Ferm jobbies in Screwfix). Even if that
takes a bit longer than a hired breaker I'd be happy as I'd have
another tool at the end of it, but would it actually do the job?

Wimp! Saw Charlie Dimmock breaking up a larger area than that on the TV,
using a sledge and a bar!

Well, yeah, but surely the point is that Simon is really just looking
for an excuse to buy a new toy :-)

Not that the rest of us would do any such thing g

Some of us need no reason
--
geoff

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:13:13 +0100, geoff wrote:

Bugger that - dynamite works much faster

Wasn't around in days of old when knights were bold. And paper was not
invented. They wiped their r's on a blade of grass, and walked away
contented.

I digress...

Not much time to sit back and have a drink while you're waiting though

Hell, there's always time to sit back and have a drink.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

In article ,
"IMM" wrote:

The castle in St. Andrews still has the mine and the three counter mines
the defenders dug. You can go down the final counter mine and then drop
down into the mine. The guide stuff says its the only surviving example
in Europe. Both were cut out of rock, so I don't quite understand how
the attackers intended to collapse it to bring down the wall. Unless
they simply intended to gain access to the inside of the castle.

What was the counter mine for? To get out?

No, so the defenders could attack the miners before the mine got under
the walls. Since they were cutting through rock the defenders eventually
found them by sound. The castle was eventually taken when some French
warships arrived off the coast and bombarded it. This was during the
religious strife during the reformation when Mary Queen of Scots was
very young and there was a series of regents.

Peter

--
Peter Ashby
School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee, Scotland
To assume that I speak for the University of Dundee is to be deluded.
Reverse the Spam and remove to email me.

On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:35:46 GMT, (Simon
Avery) wrote:

Kanga and my trailer (once I've finished it) is what I think I'm going
to use.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

You mentioned a magic word. I'm seriously looking at a trailer option
presently, but haven't got further than noticing trailers for sale in
the entrance to the local B&Q shed (and no, I'm not considering buying
one but it got me thinking....).

Can you offer any useful snippets about what trailer or trailer bits
are worth looking at?

My needs are simple - I want something relatively small, say 4ft
square, which I can toss rubbish into for taking down the dump.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

In article ,
Andrew McKay wrote:

You mentioned a magic word. I'm seriously looking at a trailer option
presently, but haven't got further than noticing trailers for sale in
the entrance to the local B&Q shed (and no, I'm not considering buying
one but it got me thinking....).

a colleague bought one of those a while ago and seems happy with it.

Peter

--
Peter Ashby
School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee, Scotland
To assume that I speak for the University of Dundee is to be deluded.
Reverse the Spam and remove to email me.

Andrew McKay wrote:

Hello Andrew

Kanga and my trailer (once I've finished it) is what I
think I'm going to use.

AM| Ding! Ding! Ding!

I'll have a 99 please!

AM| You mentioned a magic word. I'm seriously looking at a
AM| trailer option presently, but haven't got further than
AM| noticing trailers for sale in the entrance to the local B&Q
AM| shed (and no, I'm not considering buying one but it got me
AM| thinking....).

They little galvanised things? They look ok for light work, but a few
careless stones will mean they will soon get dented, bashed and start
to rust. Not sure about their weight abilities, but that shouldn't be
an issue for you.

AM| Can you offer any useful snippets about what trailer or
AM| trailer bits are worth looking at?
AM| My needs are simple - I want something relatively small, say
AM| 4ft square, which I can toss rubbish into for taking down
AM| the dump.

Then the cheapie B&Q ones may well do the job. I don't know of any
cheaper options, unless you happen to own a welder and have a spare
axle knocking about. Grab some thin blue polyprop rope too if you're
doing bulky rubbish, small trailers bounce quite well. They are
lightweight so won't stand abuse, but look after them and they should
be ok. Trailer specilist places may be worth a look, but IME they tend
to be overpriced, especially for spares and accessories. My local one
also has the same trailer (A Caddy, iirc) that B&Q does but 50 quid
dearer. If it doesn't have a jockey wheel, be aware you prolly won't
be able to unhitch it loaded, but they're dead easy to move around
when empty.

PLEASE practice your reversing if you've not towed a trailer before,
or at least stay out of the lanes! (Bane of my life, trailer drivers
who can't reverse). The smaller the trailer the harder it is to
reverse.

Check your licence. Towing rules changed ~96 so if your licence was
gained after that you may need a seperate test (or not, it's
complicated - I can get you some info if this is the case).

I've got four trailers now, but my little one is what I've just
finished refurbing for the fourth time (had it 16 years or so,
exchanged it rotted for a couple of hours work). 6'x4', 1/2 tonne or
so. Home built and uses the back axle off a Vauxhall Viva, complete
with drive shaft that's been collared and welded up to the chassis.
Useful size, small enough for my lawnmower, big enough so it's usable.
Hopefully this 18mm wpb ply, with four coats of bitumastic emulsion,
should last a good few years.

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK
uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:50:09 GMT, (Simon
Avery) wrote:

PLEASE practice your reversing if you've not towed a trailer before,
or at least stay out of the lanes! (Bane of my life, trailer drivers
who can't reverse). The smaller the trailer the harder it is to
reverse.

That's a concern for me, not having towed anything before. Thanks for
the tip.

Check your licence. Towing rules changed ~96 so if your licence was
gained after that you may need a seperate test (or not, it's
complicated - I can get you some info if this is the case).

I passed in c. 1976 so I should be okay.

I also passed my motorbike test a couple of years earlier than that,
so can ride any two wheeled chariot, none of this poncing around with
tests and limits for me. However you wouldn't get me back on two
wheels now for love nor money - way too dangerous!

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk