Hi All

In the early days of my Handyman business I had an e mail enquiry from a guy
wanting flat pack assembled. At almost the same time I had the same enquiry
from www.bellonetwork.co.uk who purport to be an advanced search engine
specialising in my type of work.

I then got a call from them, saying that they were indeed THE premier search
engine for building work, and to prove it they would send me 3 job enquiries
absolutely free.

I've since had another direct enquiry from someone, also for flat pack
assembly, immediately followed by the same enquiry from them. Both these
original enquiries came from AOL users.

Two more enquiries have arrived from Bello, but not directly, both users
have Hotmail accounts.

The catch is, the first three jobs are free, the next 100 jobs cost £400
paid in advance. Seems too good to be true - then it probably is.

The first guy (who had a genuine need and paid in full) was a Nigerian. The
guy at Bello sounded like he was too. Not being racist, but Nigerians are
well known for financial scams of all kinds.

If I search Google for flat pack or anything similar Bello don't come up in
the first 5 pages at all.

This seems similar to the old 'past posting' scam. Could these guys have a
way of intercepting AOL or Hotmail users who search for my services, then
sending the same enquiry to me? Both AOL customers claimed just to have
used a search & found me directly.

Call me suspicious...............


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. uk...
Hi All

cost £400 paid in advance.

What do you think? I only saw that in your message.
Learn to see through adverts, scams, offers etc.

The Medway Handyman wrote:

I then got a call from them, saying that they were indeed THE premier search
engine for building work, and to prove it they would send me 3 job enquiries
absolutely free.

I've since had another direct enquiry from someone, also for flat pack
assembly, immediately followed by the same enquiry from them. Both these
original enquiries came from AOL users.

Two more enquiries have arrived from Bello, but not directly, both users
have Hotmail accounts.

The catch is, the first three jobs are free, the next 100 jobs cost £400
paid in advance. Seems too good to be true - then it probably is.

Wo the hell has got 100 jobs on their books? Just up your street too.

First of all even if the trade used the internet the way it is used for
white collar work, they wouldn't have 100 jobs for you. There will be
no time clause to et your money back if the jobs don't come in before
you rach retirement age.

Hang on to your money. You are being conned, maybe even stalked. I'd
give you a 30 quid job if I was going to get 4oo quid back from you
through it. If it is too good to be true it is.

With these 419ers and any variants, the donkeys doing the cold calling
all sit in a mud hut in the disease ridden back of beyond. The gang
masters live in Park Lane when hey are not on holliday in the Caymen
Islands.

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:37:15 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Hi All

In the early days of my Handyman business I had an e mail enquiry from a guy
wanting flat pack assembled. At almost the same time I had the same enquiry
from www.bellonetwork.co.uk who purport to be an advanced search engine
specialising in my type of work.

I then got a call from them, saying that they were indeed THE premier search
engine for building work, and to prove it they would send me 3 job enquiries
absolutely free.

I've since had another direct enquiry from someone, also for flat pack
assembly, immediately followed by the same enquiry from them. Both these
original enquiries came from AOL users.

Two more enquiries have arrived from Bello, but not directly, both users
have Hotmail accounts.

The catch is, the first three jobs are free, the next 100 jobs cost £400
paid in advance. Seems too good to be true - then it probably is.

I'm sorry to see that you're still struggling to get sufficient work.
When I was a handyman in the south of England I had lots of work right
from the beginning. From your website I see that you charge more than
twice the amount I used to charge 10-15 years ago. This may be
considered reasonable under your local circumstances but have you
considered reducing your charges, at least until you build up a solid
clientele? I know you've considered working for free. A temporary
charge reduction would be less drastic.
Advertising costs is another tentacle of the system around your
goolies, dragging you down. I still think you should take my advice
about the fancy dress sandwich board activity in the town centre on
Saturdays. If you're too embarrassed to do it yourself get someone
else to do it for you. You may eventually meet some local government
body formed. to regulate and licence the activity but initially it
should work out to be a low cost exercise.
--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

Drop the (EGG) to email me.

Bello only have a contact number and email - no address.

I'd only hand over what I was willing to loose without seeing a
business that I knew was reputable/that had premises/where I could rely
on credit card protection.

I'm generally loathe to hand over cash in advance for any sort of
service that may or may not deliver. As a general practice services are
paid for on completion, goods in advance.

On the plus side they do have a google sponored link, so they probably
do get a fair few enquiries.

Question is are they using those enquiries to operate a scam by
repeatedly recruiting new tradesmen, or are they establishing a pool of
repeat business with those tradesmen?

A reputable business might want to screen its tradesmen, would have a
business address (even if operated from home), and would look more
professional if it billed you at the end of each month for the last
months contacts.

If someone wants to TEST THEM. Ideally some London people. Make an
enquiry on http://www.bellonetwork.co.uk/ for a handyman, wait until
one contacts you - ask them how long/how many jobs they've got off
Bello - if the answer is 1,2 or 3 - and several people all get the same
answer - then SCAM!

Post your results back here!

"Mike Halmarack" ... wrote in message
...
....
I'm sorry to see that you're still struggling to get sufficient work.
When I was a handyman in the south of England I had lots of work right
from the beginning. From your website I see that you charge more than
twice the amount I used to charge 10-15 years ago. This may be
considered reasonable under your local circumstances but have you
considered reducing your charges, at least until you build up a solid
clientele? I know you've considered working for free. A temporary
charge reduction would be less drastic.

I think the sliding scale pricing may put people off. They will look at the
rate for one hour and compare that with other tradesmen, ignoring the fact
that they probably have a call-out fee on top. Supplying materials at cost
+15% also sounds more expensive than supplying them at list price, even if
you are getting more than 15% trade discount and the actual cost to the
customer is less.

Colin Bignell

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:37:15 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

|Hi All
|
|In the early days of my Handyman business I had an e mail enquiry from a guy
|wanting flat pack assembled. At almost the same time I had the same enquiry
|from www.bellonetwork.co.uk who purport to be an advanced search engine
|specialising in my type of work.

|Call me suspicious...............

I never pay out good money to anyone I can not check out.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

nightjar nightjar@ wrote:

I think the sliding scale pricing may put people off. They will look at the
rate for one hour and compare that with other tradesmen, ignoring the fact
that they probably have a call-out fee on top. Supplying materials at cost
+15% also sounds more expensive than supplying them at list price, even if
you are getting more than 15% trade discount and the actual cost to the
customer is less.

I agree Colin.
I just checked the prices !!

If I wanted something doing whether 1 hour or 1 day then I'd say £15 an
hour is a lot for a "handy man" No sliding scale.

I'd be far more inclined to say "while your here can you just ......"

Once you're in and and build up a trust with customers they are more
likely to go for repeat jobs.

Perhaps have a 2 hour minimum so there's not too much time wasting.

Better to be getting £600 a week and working a 40 hour week than £100
pound a week and not building up a client base.

Last year we had a local chap doing a lot of plastering work for £10 an
hour! (but only on weekends as he worked for a building company in the
week)

Also like you say Colin, stating he'll be taking a further 15% on
material is a joke.

Better to say he'd give a 10% discount off list price for all materials
supplied!

Tell the customer how cheap you are, NOT how expensive!

--
http://gymratz.co.uk - Best Gym Equipment & Bodybuilding Supplements UK.
http://trade-price-supplements.co.uk - TRADE PRICED SUPPLEMENTS for ALL!
http://fitness-equipment-uk.com - UK's No.1 Fitness Equipment Suppliers.
http://Water-Rower.co.uk - Worlds best prices on the Worlds best Rower.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Hi All

In the early days of my Handyman business I had an e mail enquiry from a guy
wanting flat pack assembled. At almost the same time I had the same enquiry
from www.bellonetwork.co.uk who purport to be an advanced search engine
specialising in my type of work.

I then got a call from them, saying that they were indeed THE premier search
engine for building work, and to prove it they would send me 3 job enquiries
absolutely free.

I've since had another direct enquiry from someone, also for flat pack
assembly, immediately followed by the same enquiry from them. Both these
original enquiries came from AOL users.

Two more enquiries have arrived from Bello, but not directly, both users
have Hotmail accounts.

The catch is, the first three jobs are free, the next 100 jobs cost £400
paid in advance. Seems too good to be true - then it probably is.

The first guy (who had a genuine need and paid in full) was a Nigerian. The
guy at Bello sounded like he was too. Not being racist, but Nigerians are
well known for financial scams of all kinds.

If I search Google for flat pack or anything similar Bello don't come up in
the first 5 pages at all.

This seems similar to the old 'past posting' scam. Could these guys have a
way of intercepting AOL or Hotmail users who search for my services, then
sending the same enquiry to me? Both AOL customers claimed just to have
used a search & found me directly.

Call me suspicious...............


From the Whois database at :
http://www.whois.net/search.cgi2?str=bellonetwork

"
bellonetwork.com
Registrant:
Max Erixon MaxMathias Europa AB
"
Started in Sept. 2005, so quite new.

They/he also own :

bellonetwork.com
bellonetwork.com.au
bellonetwork.com.es
bellonetwork.se

and, of course:
bellonetwork.dk

Addresses:
Bello Network ApS - Lyngby Hovedgade 46, 1. sal. - 2800 Kgs. Lyngby -
Danmark
Bello Network Sverige AB 556680-2103, Södra Förstadsgatan 2, SE-211 43
Malmö, Sverige

I'll let you decide. If it isn't a huge trans-national scam then it's a
huge trans-national company. Judgin by the


paranoia
Although the UK one could be a fake trying to pass itself off as a
subsidiary ...
/paranoia


Chips.

--
-----------
Chips'll make it better.
-----------

Scam. I've had many similar over the years - most common being offer of
inclusion on a list or directory for a fee, with guaranteed work.
I point out to them that if I work for anybody they pay me, not the
other way round.

cheers

Jacob

wrote:

Scam. I've had many similar over the years - most common being offer of
inclusion on a list or directory for a fee, with guaranteed work.
I point out to them that if I work for anybody they pay me, not the
other way round.

cheers

Jacob

No one uses these stupid directories anyway. There are *very few* places I
look beyond google (and it ****es me off when half the hits are to stupid
directories!).

These a Thompson (blue business phone book), Yellow Pages, and a few
price comparison sites like kelkoo et al (not relevant in this case).

So save your money, and concentrate on word of mouth, a good google ranking
and a few local ads.

Cheers

Tim

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:31:40 +0100, Tim S had this to
say:

wrote:

Scam. I've had many similar over the years - most common being offer of
inclusion on a list or directory for a fee, with guaranteed work.
I point out to them that if I work for anybody they pay me, not the
other way round.

cheers

Jacob

No one uses these stupid directories anyway. There are *very few* places I
look beyond google (and it ****es me off when half the hits are to stupid
directories!).

These a Thompson (blue business phone book), Yellow Pages, and a few
price comparison sites like kelkoo et al (not relevant in this case).

So save your money, and concentrate on word of mouth, a good google ranking
and a few local ads.

It always puzzles me why tradesmen drive about with stickers on their
vehicles, saying something like "Find us fast in Yellow Pages".
If you know their name you'd find them quicker using the Phone Book,
without adjacently listing all their competitors.

--
Frank Erskine

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. uk...
Hi All

In the early days of my Handyman business I had an e mail enquiry from a
guy wanting flat pack assembled. At almost the same time I had the same
enquiry from www.bellonetwork.co.uk who purport to be an advanced search
engine specialising in my type of work.

I then got a call from them, saying that they were indeed THE premier
search engine for building work, and to prove it they would send me 3 job
enquiries absolutely free.

I've since had another direct enquiry from someone, also for flat pack
assembly, immediately followed by the same enquiry from them. Both these
original enquiries came from AOL users.

Two more enquiries have arrived from Bello, but not directly, both users
have Hotmail accounts.

The catch is, the first three jobs are free, the next 100 jobs cost £400
paid in advance. Seems too good to be true - then it probably is.

The first guy (who had a genuine need and paid in full) was a Nigerian.
The guy at Bello sounded like he was too. Not being racist, but Nigerians
are well known for financial scams of all kinds.

If I search Google for flat pack or anything similar Bello don't come up
in the first 5 pages at all.

This seems similar to the old 'past posting' scam. Could these guys have
a way of intercepting AOL or Hotmail users who search for my services,
then sending the same enquiry to me? Both AOL customers claimed just to
have used a search & found me directly.

Call me suspicious...............


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257


No it's not a scam, send me £200 and I will tell more :-)

Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:37:15 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:


I'm sorry to see that you're still struggling to get sufficient work.
When I was a handyman in the south of England I had lots of work right
from the beginning.

Did I give the impression I was short of work? Sorry if I did. Far from it
I'm glad to say. I've been fully booked since 1st March and am booked up 3
weeks ahead.

From your website I see that you charge more than
twice the amount I used to charge 10-15 years ago. This may be
considered reasonable under your local circumstances but have you
considered reducing your charges, at least until you build up a solid
clientele?

Far from reducing my charges, customers are more than willing to pay them.
Its not been a problem at all. If anything I'm too cheap.

I know you've considered working for free. A temporary
charge reduction would be less drastic.

Free only for publicity. I'm offering a half days labour as a competition
prise in the June issue of a local paper.

Advertising costs is another tentacle of the system around your
goolies, dragging you down. I still think you should take my advice
about the fancy dress sandwich board activity in the town centre on
Saturdays. If you're too embarrassed to do it yourself get someone
else to do it for you. You may eventually meet some local government
body formed. to regulate and licence the activity but initially it
should work out to be a low cost exercise.

I haven't forgotton the "fancy dress sandwich board activity" idea - one of
the more creative ones!

What I asking about is "Is this a scam". I have no intention of being
involved.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

"Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" wrote:

I agree Colin.
I just checked the prices !!

If I wanted something doing whether 1 hour or 1 day then I'd say £15
an hour is a lot for a "handy man" No sliding scale.

Fortunately my customers don't agree! You couldn't earn a decent living at
£15 per working hour. None of the people I've worked for have a problem
with my price. Some even add a tip to my prices.


Better to be getting £600 a week and working a 40 hour week than £100
pound a week and not building up a client base.

You can't work a 40 charging week. Out of 40 hours you will be lucky to
charge for 30. Out of that £600 a week you have to pay for fuel,
consumables, advertising, tax, NI, vehicle expenses etc. Better off in
McDonalds.

Also like you say Colin, stating he'll be taking a further 15% on
material is a joke.

Should I go & collect them for free? It would cost the client time & fuel
to collect them, why should I do it for free? Again, nobody seems to think
it's a problem.


Tell the customer how cheap you are, NOT how expensive!

I would never ever tell a client I was cheap. That would be a huge
marketing error. I don't want or need to work for people who are looking
for 'cheap'. People don't want cheap, they want reliable, quality,
communication, professional etc.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:54:16 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:37:15 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:


I'm sorry to see that you're still struggling to get sufficient work.
When I was a handyman in the south of England I had lots of work right
from the beginning.

Did I give the impression I was short of work?

Yes, by the very fact that you were considering this "opportunity" to
gain more customers.

Sorry if I did. Far from it
I'm glad to say. I've been fully booked since 1st March and am booked up 3
weeks ahead.

I'm glad for you.

From your website I see that you charge more than
twice the amount I used to charge 10-15 years ago. This may be
considered reasonable under your local circumstances but have you
considered reducing your charges, at least until you build up a solid
clientele?

Far from reducing my charges, customers are more than willing to pay them.

The customers who 're willing to pay the charges are willing to pay
them. If you're booked up for the next 3 weeks and beyond, you may
have cracked it.:-)

Its not been a problem at all. If anything I'm too cheap.

A concept with fascinating possibilities.

I know you've considered working for free. A temporary
charge reduction would be less drastic.

Free only for publicity. I'm offering a half days labour as a competition
prise in the June issue of a local paper.

What do you need publicity for with your current enviable order book
and growing list of satisfied customers? Based on most of the
experienced advice you've already received, word of mouth is what
lubricates the main customer channel.

Advertising costs is another tentacle of the system around your
goolies, dragging you down. I still think you should take my advice
about the fancy dress sandwich board activity in the town centre on
Saturdays. If you're too embarrassed to do it yourself get someone
else to do it for you. You may eventually meet some local government
body formed. to regulate and licence the activity but initially it
should work out to be a low cost exercise.

I haven't forgotton the "fancy dress sandwich board activity" idea - one of
the more creative ones!

What I asking about is "Is this a scam". I have no intention of being
involved.

I'd say it's a scam.
--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

Drop the (EGG) to email me.

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:37:15 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Hi All

Snip

Sounds like a good derivation of the old Trade Directory scam.

Call me suspicious...............

Hi Suspicious.)

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:37:15 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

This seems similar to the old 'past posting' scam. Could these guys have a
way of intercepting AOL or Hotmail users who search for my services, then
sending the same enquiry to me? Both AOL customers claimed just to have
used a search & found me directly.

Call me suspicious...............

Google on BelloNetwork

Seems like some sort of franchise worldwide.

Probably a yank had a bright idea and sold it on.

Mike Halmarack wrote:

What do you need publicity for with your current enviable order book
and growing list of satisfied customers? Based on most of the
experienced advice you've already received, word of mouth is what
lubricates the main customer channel.

To make sure my order book stays full. You can never rest on your laurels
(whatever they are). I spent far to long as a sales rep to think it's easy
getting business. You have to constantly top up the pipelone or it runs
dry.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:16:57 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Mike Halmarack wrote:

What do you need publicity for with your current enviable order book
and growing list of satisfied customers? Based on most of the
experienced advice you've already received, word of mouth is what
lubricates the main customer channel.

To make sure my order book stays full. You can never rest on your laurels
(whatever they are). I spent far to long as a sales rep to think it's easy
getting business. You have to constantly top up the pipelone or it runs
dry.

I wish you every success with that.
--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

Drop the (EGG) to email me.

The Medway Handyman wrote:

I would never ever tell a client I was cheap. That would be a huge
marketing error. I don't want or need to work for people who are looking
for 'cheap'. People don't want cheap, they want reliable, quality,
communication, professional etc.

Doh!

Just that you seemed to give the impression you were considering paying
£400 for business, otherwise why would you even mention it rather than
dump it along with all the rest of the junk mail?

--
http://gymratz.co.uk - Best Gym Equipment & Bodybuilding Supplements UK.
http://trade-price-supplements.co.uk - TRADE PRICED SUPPLEMENTS for ALL!
http://fitness-equipment-uk.com - UK's No.1 Fitness Equipment Suppliers.
http://Water-Rower.co.uk - Worlds best prices on the Worlds best Rower.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. uk...
....
Fortunately my customers don't agree! You couldn't earn a decent living
at £15 per working hour. None of the people I've worked for have a
problem with my price.

As the only people you will get as customers are those who are happy with
the price, saying that your customers are happy with your price is no guide
to whether your pricing policy is successful. The number of customers you
get at those prices is the guide to that. My computer guru costs less than
you do.

.....
Should I go & collect them for free? It would cost the client time & fuel
to collect them, why should I do it for free?

My suggestion was that you say you will only charge them list price. If you
can't get better than 15% trade discount off list for most materials, you
are buying in the wrong places.

....
Tell the customer how cheap you are, NOT how expensive!

I would never ever tell a client I was cheap. That would be a huge
marketing error. I don't want or need to work for people who are looking
for 'cheap'. People don't want cheap, they want reliable, quality,
communication, professional etc.

However, they also want all those things as cheaply as possible and I think
you present your prices in a way that makes people think you are expensive.

Colin Bignell

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. uk...
....
The catch is, the first three jobs are free, the next 100 jobs cost £400
paid in advance.
....

So, they give you three jobs, then ask you to pay them £40,000. Not the best
deal in the world IMO.

Colin Bignell

"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. uk...
...
The catch is, the first three jobs are free, the next 100 jobs cost £400
paid in advance.
...

So, they give you three jobs, then ask you to pay them £40,000. Not the
best deal in the world IMO.

Heh - I believe it is £400 for 100 jobs. That is from £4 per job. Assuming
you get 100 new jobs from it, then it compares favourably with Yellow Pages.

No, it does not look like a scam. Whether it is effective or not, who knows?

-- JJ

"Jason" wrote in message
k...

"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. uk...
...
The catch is, the first three jobs are free, the next 100 jobs cost £400
paid in advance.
...

So, they give you three jobs, then ask you to pay them £40,000. Not the
best deal in the world IMO.

Heh - I believe it is £400 for 100 jobs.

That is one way to read the offer. I generally assume the worst case, until
I have read the small print in detail.

Colin Bignell

In article ,
nightjar nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com wrote:
As the only people you will get as customers are those who are happy
with the price, saying that your customers are happy with your price is
no guide to whether your pricing policy is successful. The number of
customers you get at those prices is the guide to that. My computer
guru costs less than you do.

I doubt a computer 'guru' needs a van and loads of expensive tools. And
the country is awash with them.

--
*You! Off my planet!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
nightjar nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com wrote:
As the only people you will get as customers are those who are happy
with the price, saying that your customers are happy with your price is
no guide to whether your pricing policy is successful. The number of
customers you get at those prices is the guide to that. My computer
guru costs less than you do.

I doubt a computer 'guru' needs a van and loads of expensive tools. And
the country is awash with them.


Indeed. For my work I need precisely one small multi-toolset containing
anti-static strap, screwdriver with selection of bits (all types known to
man required), sidecutters (for getting tie wraps off cable) and a small
pair of pliers and access to a labelling machine and of course as many PCs
as possible - one for general use and several for testing.

If I practised freelance, I'd need the toolkit, a few CD's (and the odd
floppy) of software tools, firmware packs etc and random linux distros and
no labelling machine. Laptop with modem/NIC would be essential. A car would
be a liability in London but essential outside.

Cheers

Tim

Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬) wrote:
nightjar nightjar@ wrote:

I think the sliding scale pricing may put people off. They will look atthe
rate for one hour and compare that with other tradesmen, ignoring the fact
that they probably have a call-out fee on top. Supplying materials at cost
+15% also sounds more expensive than supplying them at list price, evenif
you are getting more than 15% trade discount and the actual cost to the
customer is less.

I agree Colin.
I just checked the prices !!

If I wanted something doing whether 1 hour or 1 day then I'd say £15 an
hour is a lot for a "handy man" No sliding scale.

I'd be far more inclined to say "while your here can you just ......"

Once you're in and and build up a trust with customers they are more
likely to go for repeat jobs.

Perhaps have a 2 hour minimum so there's not too much time wasting.

Better to be getting £600 a week and working a 40 hour week than £100
pound a week and not building up a client base.

Last year we had a local chap doing a lot of plastering work for £10 an
hour! (but only on weekends as he worked for a building company in the
week)

Also like you say Colin, stating he'll be taking a further 15% on
material is a joke.

Better to say he'd give a 10% discount off list price for all materials
supplied!

He's just being honest about it. Other tradesman will also charge more
than cost but never say so or they'll screw you somewhere else. If this
honesty helps or hinders, I don't know.

To me, a tradesman offering discounts just sounds like a scammer. Like
people who offer discounts for the elderly etc. But that's just me I
suppose and plenty of people fall for this stuff.

"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Jason" wrote in message
k...

"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message . uk...
...
The catch is, the first three jobs are free, the next 100 jobs cost
£400 paid in advance.
...

So, they give you three jobs, then ask you to pay them £40,000. Not the
best deal in the world IMO.

Heh - I believe it is £400 for 100 jobs.

That is one way to read the offer. I generally assume the worst case,
until I have read the small print in detail.

Yeah - pay 40 grand in advance for leads to put up 100 shelves. Anyone would
see how quickly they can make their money back...;-)

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
nightjar nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com wrote:
As the only people you will get as customers are those who are happy
with the price, saying that your customers are happy with your price is
no guide to whether your pricing policy is successful. The number of
customers you get at those prices is the guide to that. My computer
guru costs less than you do.

I doubt a computer 'guru' needs a van

He still needs transport and the car he drives probably cost about the same
as my Renualt Master.

and loads of expensive tools.

Assuming a 47 week year, a 40 hour week and a four year writing off period,
£1 an hour covers £7,500 worth of tools.

And
the country is awash with them.

That doesn't make them cheap though.

Colin Bignell

In article ,
nightjar nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com wrote:
I doubt a computer 'guru' needs a van

He still needs transport and the car he drives probably cost about the
same as my Renualt Master.

Few people would use a van as personal transport for leisure use - indeed
they're probably not insured for this. So would have both car or estate
etc plus van. Your computer guy can use a car for both.

and loads of expensive tools.

Assuming a 47 week year, a 40 hour week and a four year writing off
period, £1 an hour covers £7,500 worth of tools.

Could be.

And the country is awash with them.

That doesn't make them cheap though.

Dunno. All I know is I wouldn't take any work in my freelance field which
only offered 15 quid an hour - and I don't usually need to carry equipment
or tools.
If I did, my rate goes up.

--
*Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
nightjar nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com wrote:
I doubt a computer 'guru' needs a van

He still needs transport and the car he drives probably cost about the
same as my Renualt Master.

Few people would use a van as personal transport for leisure use - indeed
they're probably not insured for this. So would have both car or estate
etc plus van.

I do not consider that a valid assumption, as I have been in the position
where I could only afford one or the other, so I used a van for everything
and I know other people who have been or are in the same situation. I had a
business insurance that covered any use except motor trade and competition.

Your computer guy can use a car for both.

I expect he does but the extensive signwriting makes it quite obvious that
it is a business vehicle.

....
That doesn't make them cheap though.

Dunno. All I know is I wouldn't take any work in my freelance field which
only offered 15 quid an hour - and I don't usually need to carry equipment
or tools.

I didn't suggest £15 per hour. I only suggested that people do not expect to
see a handyman charging £40 per hour.

Colin Bignell

Colin Bignell wrote;

I didn't suggest £15 per hour. I only suggested that people do not
expect to see a handyman charging £40 per hour.


One reason I have prices on my site. People expecting to pay silly money
don't ring in the first place and waste my time.

Can you think of any labour based service that charges less than £40 per
hour for a home visit? Also bear in mind that mt rate drops to as low as
£20 per hour for a full day. Again, not expensive in my view or that of my
customers.

More small business's go broke as a result of being afraid to charge
sensible prices than any other reason (apart from cashflow maybe).


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I didn't suggest £15 per hour. I only suggested that people do not
expect to see a handyman charging £40 per hour.


One reason I have prices on my site. People expecting to pay silly
money don't ring in the first place and waste my time.

Can you think of any labour based service that charges less than £40 per
hour for a home visit? Also bear in mind that mt rate drops to as low
as £20 per hour for a full day. Again, not expensive in my view or
that of my customers.

Absolutely. If 40 quid an hour is for the first hour and includes
travelling time it's reasonable.

--
*When the going gets tough, use duct tape

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. uk...
Colin Bignell wrote;

I didn't suggest £15 per hour. I only suggested that people do not
expect to see a handyman charging £40 per hour.


One reason I have prices on my site. People expecting to pay silly money
don't ring in the first place and waste my time.

I never view talking to a potential customer as a waste of time.

Can you think of any labour based service that charges less than £40 per
hour for a home visit?

I would class a handyman as semi-skilled - able to do routine work but
lacking the additional skills of a craftsman - and for semi-skilled work, on
the South Coast, I pay about £15 - £25 an hour and, even for those who add
call-out charges, that comes out at less than £40 for the first hour.

Also bear in mind that mt rate drops to as low as £20 per hour for a full
day. Again, not expensive in my view or that of my customers.

Studies show that you have about 8 seconds to make a sale on a web site, so
few people will take the time to work that out. As I said at the start, I
think the way that you present your prices is probably losing you customers.
A banner headline on the lines of 'rates from £20 an hour' would be much
more attractive, after which you can give them the details and let them work
out whether they prefer to pay your way or a flat hourly rate and a callout
charge or, what I usually prefer, a quote for the whole job.

More small business's go broke as a result of being afraid to charge
sensible prices than any other reason (apart from cashflow maybe).

Plenty also go under because the owner works out what he wants to earn and
sets the prices according to that, rather than by what the market can bear.
Personally, I would be worried if I only had three weeks' work in hand and
would be looking at ways I could improve my sales.

Colin Bignell