.... and are there any advantages to having a 110V even though you have
to **** about with a transformer.

wrote:
... and are there any advantages to having a 110V even though you have
to **** about with a transformer.

The transformers are centre tapped so that the maximum voltage from
ground is 55V as against 240V with a normal domestic tool. This is
considerably safer.

MBQ

Safety - no risk of shock in risky situations such as on building sites
working off metal ladders, near water, high risk of cable damage due to
presence of cutting tools or other causes. Not so important in quiet
domestic situations.

cheers

Jacob

wrote:

... and are there any advantages to having a 110V even though you have
to **** about with a transformer.

Because the 110V transformers are actually 55-0-55 centre tapped to earth,
so the most likely exposure you'll get on a wet building site is 55V, which
is not totally safe, but way better than 240V.

Cheers

Tim

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
wrote:

... and are there any advantages to having a 110V even though you have
to **** about with a transformer.

Because the 110V transformers are actually 55-0-55 centre tapped to earth,
so the most likely exposure you'll get on a wet building site is 55V,
which
is not totally safe, but way better than 240V.

There is no regs saying you need 110v on sites. It came about in the 1950s.
240v with RCDs is just as safe, or even safer. Times have moved on and 110v
on sites should cast to history. BTW, it is not the 110v as in the USA,
which is 110v, not 55-0-55. I suppose we could have 120-0-120 transformers,
as the tools can be used anywhere. I know some contractor who will not do
site work as it would mean spending many 1000s on 110v tools.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
There is no regs saying you need 110v on sites. It came about in the
1950s. 240v with RCDs is just as safe, or even safer. Times have moved
on and 110v on sites should cast to history. BTW, it is not the 110v
as in the USA, which is 110v, not 55-0-55. I suppose we could have
120-0-120 transformers, as the tools can be used anywhere. I know some
contractor who will not do site work as it would mean spending many
1000s on 110v tools.

Most of the 'contractors' you seem to quote use DIY shed tools, so no
surprise there.

--
*Do they ever shut up on your planet?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
There is no regs saying you need 110v on sites. It came about in the
1950s. 240v with RCDs is just as safe, or even safer. Times have moved
on and 110v on sites should cast to history. BTW, it is not the 110v
as in the USA, which is 110v, not 55-0-55. I suppose we could have
120-0-120 transformers, as the tools can be used anywhere. I know some
contractor who will not do site work as it would mean spending many
1000s on 110v tools.

Most of the 'contractors' you seem to quote use DIY shed tools, so no
surprise there.

Isn't it sad. The senility has really set in. He has invented some
contractors now. Sad, very sad. Year ago he would have been locked up.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...


There is no regs saying you need 110v on sites. It came about in the
1950s. 240v with RCDs is just as safe, or even safer. Times have moved on
and 110v on sites should cast to history. BTW, it is not the 110v as in
the USA, which is 110v, not 55-0-55. I suppose we could have 120-0-120
transformers, as the tools can be used anywhere. I know some contractor
who will not do site work as it would mean spending many 1000s on 110v
tools.

In the US the 110V is generated by a transformer, often in the home and fed
with a much higher voltage which I thought was 2.2KV though not sure. The
transformer is tapped to give a nominal 55-0-55 wrt ground potential.
Forgive me if I'm wrong.
IANAE

Fred wrote:

In the US the 110V is generated by a transformer, often in the home and fed
with a much higher voltage which I thought was 2.2KV though not sure. The

Done the same way here - 240V is usually steped down from a 11kV feed.

transformer is tapped to give a nominal 55-0-55 wrt ground potential.

IIUC, the US system typically uses 110 - 0 - 110 centre tapped, and both
lives are taken to the property. That way thay can use both to get a
220V supply for higher power fixed appliances like tumble driers etc.


--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Fred wrote:

In the US the 110V is generated by a transformer, often in the home and
fed with a much higher voltage which I thought was 2.2KV though not sure.
The

Done the same way here - 240V is usually steped down from a 11kV feed.

transformer is tapped to give a nominal 55-0-55 wrt ground potential.

IIUC, the US system typically uses 110 - 0 - 110 centre tapped, and both
lives are taken to the property. That way thay can use both to get a 220V
supply for higher power fixed appliances like tumble driers etc.


--

Yes - seem if I was spinning a yarn and you are indeed correct.

For a slightly more authoritative source have a look at:
http://www.epanorama.net/links/wire_mains.html
and scroll down to "USA/Canada wiring regulations"

Ignore all the bits about Franklin discovering electricity and Edison
inventing the light bulb. Didn't Swan's predate his patent?

In article ews.net,
"Doctor Drivel" writes:

There is no regs saying you need 110v on sites.

Actually, the Wiring Regs do (BS7671) for all loads up to
some power rating (3kW IIRC).

I presume this will change because the UK has been told it's
not allowed to insist on _only_ 110V on construction sites.
However, as a concession for having the lowest number of
construction site electrocutions, we have been permitted to
keep 110V supplies (EU originally wanted them completely
removed).

--
Andrew Gabriel

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ews.net,
"Doctor Drivel" writes:

There is no regs saying you need 110v on sites.

Actually, the Wiring Regs do (BS7671) for all loads up to
some power rating (3kW IIRC).

I presume this will change because the UK has been told it's
not allowed to insist on _only_ 110V on construction sites.
However, as a concession for having the lowest number of
construction site electrocutions, we have been permitted to
keep 110V supplies (EU originally wanted them completely
removed).


Hmm fascinating.

So the EU wants us to do away with something that has a positive effect on
safety because they didn't invent it.

And the EU wants us to implement Part P, sold on the grounds of safety
by TB Liar, when it has very little to offer safety wise.

I see how this works now...

Tim

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ews.net,
"Doctor Drivel" writes:

There is no regs saying you need 110v on sites.

Actually, the Wiring Regs do (BS7671) for all loads up to
some power rating (3kW IIRC).

I presume this will change because the UK has been told it's
not allowed to insist on _only_ 110V on construction sites.
However, as a concession for having the lowest number of
construction site electrocutions, we have been permitted to
keep 110V supplies (EU originally wanted them completely
removed).


Hmm fascinating.

So the EU wants us to do away
with something that has a positive effect on
safety because they didn't invent it.

No. They seen no need for it, as things have moved on since 1945.

And the EU wants us to implement Part P,
sold on the grounds of safety
by TB Liar, when it has very little to
offer safety wise.

You really should get your brainwashed, sycophantic, Tory mind seen to. You
have nothing to gain by your muddled mind.

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
"Doctor Drivel" writes:

There is no regs saying you need 110v on sites.

Actually, the Wiring Regs do (BS7671) for all loads up to
some power rating (3kW IIRC).

I presume this will change because the UK has been told it's
not allowed to insist on _only_ 110V on construction sites.
However, as a concession for having the lowest number of
construction site electrocutions, we have been permitted to
keep 110V supplies (EU originally wanted them completely
removed).

Are these low electrocutions attributed to 110v or double insulation and
RCDs, etc? And greater safety awareness which the Brits tend to have to say
any Latin race.

In article ews.net,
"Doctor Drivel" writes:

Are these low electrocutions attributed to 110v or double insulation and
RCDs, etc?

55V max WRT earth. I don't think RCD's are normally used (portable
delicate safety critical devices which don't fail-safe on
construction sites are not a good combination). Double insulation
tends to be useless when someone hands you a power tool they just
dropped into a puddle, or dropped off the scaffolding and the
insides are all smashed up.

--
Andrew Gabriel

wrote:
... and are there any advantages to having a 110V even though you have
to **** about with a transformer.

as the other have said, safety.

BUT (and there's always a but) many moons ago, someone I
know was told to put a plug on a 110v item and test it. so he
put a plug on it, plugged it in and it exploded in his face and
damaged 80% of his eyesight. he wasn't told it was 110v
and there was no readily identifying marks on it.

the firm (very famous) eventually accepted liability and paid
out a significant sum in compo as a young trainee should not
have been doing that sort of thing unsupervised.

I take it then that there are no advantages on a like for like basis of
tools lasting longer etc or being able to take more stick.

wrote:

I take it then that there are no advantages on a like for like basis of
tools lasting longer etc or being able to take more stick.

The tools will run from higher current and hence need heavier windings
on the motors. This may make them a little more resiliant, but by the
same token they are more succceptable to voltage drop on the supply, and
also likely to dissapate more heat internally (due to the extra current).

(you could argue that you only tend to find 110V versions of the better
tools in the first place - so there is less chance of buying a cheap and
very nasty 110V tool)


--
Cheers,

John.

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| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
wrote:

I take it then that there are no advantages on a like for like basis of
tools lasting longer etc or being able to take more stick.

The tools will run from higher current and hence need heavier windings
on the motors. This may make them a little more resiliant, but by the
same token they are more succceptable to voltage drop on the supply, and

Depends what you mean. A 10% drop in the supply is a 10% drop whatever
the nominal voltage and leads to a 10% drop in power.

also likely to dissapate more heat internally (due to the extra current).

Power = I*V, double the current and halve the voltage and the power
dissipated remains the same.

MBQ

wrote in message
oups.com...

John Rumm wrote:
wrote:

I take it then that there are no advantages on a like for like basis of
tools lasting longer etc or being able to take more stick.

The tools will run from higher current and hence need heavier windings
on the motors. This may make them a little more resiliant, but by the
same token they are more succceptable to voltage drop on the supply, and

Depends what you mean. A 10% drop in the supply is a 10% drop whatever
the nominal voltage and leads to a 10% drop in power.

also likely to dissapate more heat internally (due to the extra current).

Power = I*V, double the current and halve the voltage and the power
dissipated remains the same.

Yep.

wrote:

Depends what you mean. A 10% drop in the supply is a 10% drop whatever
the nominal voltage and leads to a 10% drop in power.

Yes but voltage drop will be an absolute value for a given length of
wire etc and hence will represent double the difference in percentage
terms since the voltage is halved. (i.e. it is not a function of the
supply voltage, only I and R)

This is hence why you have to take far more care with voltage drop on
12V lighting systems if you are not to see an obvious difference in
brightness between lamp fittings.

also likely to dissapate more heat internally (due to the extra current).


Power = I*V, double the current and halve the voltage and the power
dissipated remains the same.

Power dissipated for a given resistance of motor winding will be I^2*R
hence rises in proportion ot the square of the current.

The two points I make above have different implications. Voltage drop on
a tool using a universal motor simply results in lower power output in
proportion to the percentage drop of the voltage. On a tool with an
induction motor however, it means higher winding current and hence
possibility of damage.

The dissipation issue comes into play even without any appreciable
voltage drop issue. One of the reasons house fires caused by electrical
installs are far more common in the US than here.

--
Cheers,

John.

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On 22 Mar 2006 06:53:44 -0800, wrote:

I take it then that there are no advantages on a like for like basis of
tools lasting longer etc or being able to take more stick.


It does also allow you to buy some kinds of tool in/from the U.S.,
often at substantially lower prices than in Europe.

Among these are cordless tools with a charger - the charger will
operate from an autotransformer or site transformer, and tools with a
universal motor (i.e. with brushes) which will work from a site
transformer. Machines with induction motors may well not, but this
is due to their being designed for 60Hz operation as opposed to any
voltage issue.


--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On 22 Mar 2006 06:53:44 -0800, wrote:

I take it then that there are no advantages on a like for like basis of
tools lasting longer etc or being able to take more stick.

It does also allow you to buy some kinds of tool in/from the U.S.,
often at substantially lower prices than in Europe.

Among these are cordless tools with a charger - the charger will
operate from an autotransformer or site transformer, and tools with a
universal motor (i.e. with brushes) which will work from a site
transformer. Machines with induction motors may well not, but this
is due to their being designed for 60Hz operation as opposed to any
voltage issue.

240/ne 230 european volt tools are substantially cheaper in Britain
than the 110 equivalent because only a few people buy 110 v equiptment
here. The number is dropping as battery tools take over and sites
supply specific tools not normally required by agency workers.

Agency tradesmen can demand the site provide SDS drills, 110 planers
and circular saws. Smaller sites will usually allow 240 volt tools if
they have to, even though most will carp. Larger sites have too many
middlemen to do so. And they want all their safety rules followed
regardless of anything else.

It is a PITA sorting out wiring and transformers all the time with
110v. They weigh a ton too which adds to the travel expense.

Weatherlawyer wrote:

240/ne 230 european volt tools are substantially cheaper in Britain
than the 110 equivalent because only a few people buy 110 v equiptment
here. The number is dropping as battery tools take over and sites
supply specific tools not normally required by agency workers.

NIME... If you look at screwfix, axminster, Lawson et al you will note
that the 110V versions are almost always exactly the same price as the
240V versions.

The only difference is you don't get the same range of dribblesq cheap
dross to choose from, since much of it is 230v only


--
Cheers,

John.

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