Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

.... and are there any advantages to having a 110V even though you have
to **** about with a transformer.

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

wrote:
... and are there any advantages to having a 110V even though you have
to **** about with a transformer.

The transformers are centre tapped so that the maximum voltage from
ground is 55V as against 240V with a normal domestic tool. This is
considerably safer.

MBQ

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

Safety - no risk of shock in risky situations such as on building sites
working off metal ladders, near water, high risk of cable damage due to
presence of cutting tools or other causes. Not so important in quiet
domestic situations.

cheers

Jacob

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

I take it then that there are no advantages on a like for like basis of
tools lasting longer etc or being able to take more stick.

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
wrote:

... and are there any advantages to having a 110V even though you have
to **** about with a transformer.

Because the 110V transformers are actually 55-0-55 centre tapped to earth,
so the most likely exposure you'll get on a wet building site is 55V,
which
is not totally safe, but way better than 240V.

There is no regs saying you need 110v on sites. It came about in the 1950s.
240v with RCDs is just as safe, or even safer. Times have moved on and 110v
on sites should cast to history. BTW, it is not the 110v as in the USA,
which is 110v, not 55-0-55. I suppose we could have 120-0-120 transformers,
as the tools can be used anywhere. I know some contractor who will not do
site work as it would mean spending many 1000s on 110v tools.

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

On 22 Mar 2006 06:53:44 -0800, wrote:

I take it then that there are no advantages on a like for like basis of
tools lasting longer etc or being able to take more stick.


It does also allow you to buy some kinds of tool in/from the U.S.,
often at substantially lower prices than in Europe.

Among these are cordless tools with a charger - the charger will
operate from an autotransformer or site transformer, and tools with a
universal motor (i.e. with brushes) which will work from a site
transformer. Machines with induction motors may well not, but this
is due to their being designed for 60Hz operation as opposed to any
voltage issue.


--

..andy

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

wrote:

I take it then that there are no advantages on a like for like basis of
tools lasting longer etc or being able to take more stick.

The tools will run from higher current and hence need heavier windings
on the motors. This may make them a little more resiliant, but by the
same token they are more succceptable to voltage drop on the supply, and
also likely to dissapate more heat internally (due to the extra current).

(you could argue that you only tend to find 110V versions of the better
tools in the first place - so there is less chance of buying a cheap and
very nasty 110V tool)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

John Rumm wrote:
wrote:

I take it then that there are no advantages on a like for like basis of
tools lasting longer etc or being able to take more stick.

The tools will run from higher current and hence need heavier windings
on the motors. This may make them a little more resiliant, but by the
same token they are more succceptable to voltage drop on the supply, and

Depends what you mean. A 10% drop in the supply is a 10% drop whatever
the nominal voltage and leads to a 10% drop in power.

also likely to dissapate more heat internally (due to the extra current).

Power = I*V, double the current and halve the voltage and the power
dissipated remains the same.

MBQ

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

John Rumm wrote:
wrote:

I take it then that there are no advantages on a like for like basis of
tools lasting longer etc or being able to take more stick.

The tools will run from higher current and hence need heavier windings
on the motors. This may make them a little more resiliant, but by the
same token they are more succceptable to voltage drop on the supply, and

Depends what you mean. A 10% drop in the supply is a 10% drop whatever
the nominal voltage and leads to a 10% drop in power.

also likely to dissapate more heat internally (due to the extra current).

Power = I*V, double the current and halve the voltage and the power
dissipated remains the same.

Yep.

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

Andy Hall wrote:
On 22 Mar 2006 06:53:44 -0800, wrote:

I take it then that there are no advantages on a like for like basis of
tools lasting longer etc or being able to take more stick.

It does also allow you to buy some kinds of tool in/from the U.S.,
often at substantially lower prices than in Europe.

Among these are cordless tools with a charger - the charger will
operate from an autotransformer or site transformer, and tools with a
universal motor (i.e. with brushes) which will work from a site
transformer. Machines with induction motors may well not, but this
is due to their being designed for 60Hz operation as opposed to any
voltage issue.

240/ne 230 european volt tools are substantially cheaper in Britain
than the 110 equivalent because only a few people buy 110 v equiptment
here. The number is dropping as battery tools take over and sites
supply specific tools not normally required by agency workers.

Agency tradesmen can demand the site provide SDS drills, 110 planers
and circular saws. Smaller sites will usually allow 240 volt tools if
they have to, even though most will carp. Larger sites have too many
middlemen to do so. And they want all their safety rules followed
regardless of anything else.

It is a PITA sorting out wiring and transformers all the time with
110v. They weigh a ton too which adds to the travel expense.

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
There is no regs saying you need 110v on sites. It came about in the
1950s. 240v with RCDs is just as safe, or even safer. Times have moved
on and 110v on sites should cast to history. BTW, it is not the 110v
as in the USA, which is 110v, not 55-0-55. I suppose we could have
120-0-120 transformers, as the tools can be used anywhere. I know some
contractor who will not do site work as it would mean spending many
1000s on 110v tools.

Most of the 'contractors' you seem to quote use DIY shed tools, so no
surprise there.

--
*Do they ever shut up on your planet?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
There is no regs saying you need 110v on sites. It came about in the
1950s. 240v with RCDs is just as safe, or even safer. Times have moved
on and 110v on sites should cast to history. BTW, it is not the 110v
as in the USA, which is 110v, not 55-0-55. I suppose we could have
120-0-120 transformers, as the tools can be used anywhere. I know some
contractor who will not do site work as it would mean spending many
1000s on 110v tools.

Most of the 'contractors' you seem to quote use DIY shed tools, so no
surprise there.

Isn't it sad. The senility has really set in. He has invented some
contractors now. Sad, very sad. Year ago he would have been locked up.

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...


There is no regs saying you need 110v on sites. It came about in the
1950s. 240v with RCDs is just as safe, or even safer. Times have moved on
and 110v on sites should cast to history. BTW, it is not the 110v as in
the USA, which is 110v, not 55-0-55. I suppose we could have 120-0-120
transformers, as the tools can be used anywhere. I know some contractor
who will not do site work as it would mean spending many 1000s on 110v
tools.

In the US the 110V is generated by a transformer, often in the home and fed
with a much higher voltage which I thought was 2.2KV though not sure. The
transformer is tapped to give a nominal 55-0-55 wrt ground potential.
Forgive me if I'm wrong.
IANAE

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
oups.com...

Doctor Drivel wrote:

It is a PITA sorting out wiring and transformers all the time with
110v. They weigh a ton too which adds to the travel expense.

What amazes me, is that is there is just no need for it.

Not now no, maybe but I can remember the good old days.

Now they are the bad old days, and having 110v is needless. Also many tools
are double insulated as well as having RCDs. Why 110V? Madness.

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

Fred wrote:

In the US the 110V is generated by a transformer, often in the home and fed
with a much higher voltage which I thought was 2.2KV though not sure. The

Done the same way here - 240V is usually steped down from a 11kV feed.

transformer is tapped to give a nominal 55-0-55 wrt ground potential.

IIUC, the US system typically uses 110 - 0 - 110 centre tapped, and both
lives are taken to the property. That way thay can use both to get a
220V supply for higher power fixed appliances like tumble driers etc.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

wrote:

Depends what you mean. A 10% drop in the supply is a 10% drop whatever
the nominal voltage and leads to a 10% drop in power.

Yes but voltage drop will be an absolute value for a given length of
wire etc and hence will represent double the difference in percentage
terms since the voltage is halved. (i.e. it is not a function of the
supply voltage, only I and R)

This is hence why you have to take far more care with voltage drop on
12V lighting systems if you are not to see an obvious difference in
brightness between lamp fittings.

also likely to dissapate more heat internally (due to the extra current).


Power = I*V, double the current and halve the voltage and the power
dissipated remains the same.

Power dissipated for a given resistance of motor winding will be I^2*R
hence rises in proportion ot the square of the current.

The two points I make above have different implications. Voltage drop on
a tool using a universal motor simply results in lower power output in
proportion to the percentage drop of the voltage. On a tool with an
induction motor however, it means higher winding current and hence
possibility of damage.

The dissipation issue comes into play even without any appreciable
voltage drop issue. One of the reasons house fires caused by electrical
installs are far more common in the US than here.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

Weatherlawyer wrote:

240/ne 230 european volt tools are substantially cheaper in Britain
than the 110 equivalent because only a few people buy 110 v equiptment
here. The number is dropping as battery tools take over and sites
supply specific tools not normally required by agency workers.

NIME... If you look at screwfix, axminster, Lawson et al you will note
that the 110V versions are almost always exactly the same price as the
240V versions.

The only difference is you don't get the same range of dribblesq cheap
dross to choose from, since much of it is 230v only


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

Doctor Drivel wrote:

Also many tools are double insulated as well as having RCDs.

Which as you will obviously know makes the RCD less useful.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

In article ews.net,
"Doctor Drivel" writes:

There is no regs saying you need 110v on sites.

Actually, the Wiring Regs do (BS7671) for all loads up to
some power rating (3kW IIRC).

I presume this will change because the UK has been told it's
not allowed to insist on _only_ 110V on construction sites.
However, as a concession for having the lowest number of
construction site electrocutions, we have been permitted to
keep 110V supplies (EU originally wanted them completely
removed).

--
Andrew Gabriel

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

Doctor Drivel wrote:
Now they are the bad old days, and having 110v is needless. Also many
tools are double insulated as well as having RCDs. Why 110V? Madness.

Certainly madness with pressure washers. 2.9kw induction motor at 110v is a
PITA, transformers weigh a ton, voltage drops, extn cables - aaargh!


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ews.net,
"Doctor Drivel" writes:

There is no regs saying you need 110v on sites.

Actually, the Wiring Regs do (BS7671) for all loads up to
some power rating (3kW IIRC).

I presume this will change because the UK has been told it's
not allowed to insist on _only_ 110V on construction sites.
However, as a concession for having the lowest number of
construction site electrocutions, we have been permitted to
keep 110V supplies (EU originally wanted them completely
removed).


Hmm fascinating.

So the EU wants us to do away with something that has a positive effect on
safety because they didn't invent it.

And the EU wants us to implement Part P, sold on the grounds of safety
by TB Liar, when it has very little to offer safety wise.

I see how this works now...

Tim

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

John Rumm wrote:
wrote:

Depends what you mean. A 10% drop in the supply is a 10% drop whatever
the nominal voltage and leads to a 10% drop in power.

Yes but voltage drop will be an absolute value for a given length of
wire etc and hence will represent double the difference in percentage
terms since the voltage is halved. (i.e. it is not a function of the
supply voltage, only I and R)

If you say "since the voltage is halved" then you imply it is a
function of voltage. If you are talking about voltage drop along the
cable then you should have said "since the current is doubled". For a
given cable R then the cable voltage drop is I^2*R so for a doubling of
current the absolute voltage drop is quadrupled.

I was thinking only in terms of the voltage at the input to the device.
If drop in the supply cable is of concern then I suggest the supply is
inadequate.


This is hence why you have to take far more care with voltage drop on
12V lighting systems if you are not to see an obvious difference in
brightness between lamp fittings.

I know.


also likely to dissapate more heat internally (due to the extra current).


Power = I*V, double the current and halve the voltage and the power
dissipated remains the same.

Power dissipated for a given resistance of motor winding will be I^2*R
hence rises in proportion ot the square of the current.

But who says the 120V tool has the same winding resistance as a 240V
tool? If it has then I don't think we are comparing like with like in
terms of the power output of the tool.

MBQ

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
"Doctor Drivel" writes:

There is no regs saying you need 110v on sites.

Actually, the Wiring Regs do (BS7671) for all loads up to
some power rating (3kW IIRC).

I presume this will change because the UK has been told it's
not allowed to insist on _only_ 110V on construction sites.
However, as a concession for having the lowest number of
construction site electrocutions, we have been permitted to
keep 110V supplies (EU originally wanted them completely
removed).

Are these low electrocutions attributed to 110v or double insulation and
RCDs, etc? And greater safety awareness which the Brits tend to have to say
any Latin race.

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ews.net,
"Doctor Drivel" writes:

There is no regs saying you need 110v on sites.

Actually, the Wiring Regs do (BS7671) for all loads up to
some power rating (3kW IIRC).

I presume this will change because the UK has been told it's
not allowed to insist on _only_ 110V on construction sites.
However, as a concession for having the lowest number of
construction site electrocutions, we have been permitted to
keep 110V supplies (EU originally wanted them completely
removed).


Hmm fascinating.

So the EU wants us to do away
with something that has a positive effect on
safety because they didn't invent it.

No. They seen no need for it, as things have moved on since 1945.

And the EU wants us to implement Part P,
sold on the grounds of safety
by TB Liar, when it has very little to
offer safety wise.

You really should get your brainwashed, sycophantic, Tory mind seen to. You
have nothing to gain by your muddled mind.

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

wrote:


Depends what you mean. A 10% drop in the supply is a 10% drop whatever
the nominal voltage and leads to a 10% drop in power.

Yes but voltage drop will be an absolute value for a given length of
wire etc and hence will represent double the difference in percentage
terms since the voltage is halved. (i.e. it is not a function of the
supply voltage, only I and R)


If you say "since the voltage is halved" then you imply it is a
function of voltage. If you are talking about voltage drop along the

No sorry, I was not being clear. By the "voltage is halved" I was
talking about the 110V Vs. the 230V supply difference not the amount of
voltage drop. Hence the implication that a given voltage drop counts
double in percentage terms. e.g. if you get 2.3V drop on a 230V system
that is a 1% drop, but on a 110V system would be a 2% drop.

I was thinking only in terms of the voltage at the input to the device.
If drop in the supply cable is of concern then I suggest the supply is
inadequate.

Or the cable...

also likely to dissapate more heat internally (due to the extra current).


Power = I*V, double the current and halve the voltage and the power
dissipated remains the same.

Power dissipated for a given resistance of motor winding will be I^2*R
hence rises in proportion ot the square of the current.


But who says the 120V tool has the same winding resistance as a 240V
tool? If it has then I don't think we are comparing like with like in
terms of the power output of the tool.

It almost certainly won't have the same winding resistance if it is
designed to develop the same power output. It is the accumulated
incidental losses that will add up to slightly more unwanted dissipation
in the tool. However the figures here are probably negligible.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

You really should get your brainwashed, sycophantic, Tory mind seen to.
You have nothing to gain by your muddled mind.

Don't you *ever* call me a Tory you cankerous festering used tampon!

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

The message
from Richard Conway contains these words:

Its similar to when they got all excited about audio equipment using 4mm
banana plugs for speaker connections. The problem was that the banana
plugs were just the right size for small children to stick into European
power outlets.

But so are many nails. And screws. And the insides of biros. Are they
going to ban everything?

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

The message
from Richard Conway contains these words:

But so are many nails. And screws. And the insides of biros. Are they
going to ban everything?

That was my point - the socket outlets are the fundamentally flawed item
- not the perfectly safe banana plugs

Perhaps they were just going to ban /bent/ banana plugs.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

In article ,
Richard Conway wrote:
Guy King wrote:
The message from
Richard Conway contains these words:

Its similar to when they got all excited about audio equipment using
4mm banana plugs for speaker connections. The problem was that the
banana plugs were just the right size for small children to stick
into European power outlets.

But so are many nails. And screws. And the insides of biros. Are they
going to ban everything?

That was my point - the socket outlets are the fundamentally flawed item
- not the perfectly safe banana plugs

Lots of audio power amps can produce voltages which aren't considered
'safe' these days.

So an alternative output connector to banana plugs which is safe is no bad
thing. Something like the Neutric Speakon.

--
*Time is what keeps everything from happening at once.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

Lots of audio power amps can produce voltages which aren't considered
'safe' these days.

True, but at least getting a belt off a power amp has its advantages.
For a start it'd be the only time I ever danced to the right rythym.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

In article ews.net,
"Doctor Drivel" writes:

Are these low electrocutions attributed to 110v or double insulation and
RCDs, etc?

55V max WRT earth. I don't think RCD's are normally used (portable
delicate safety critical devices which don't fail-safe on
construction sites are not a good combination). Double insulation
tends to be useless when someone hands you a power tool they just
dropped into a puddle, or dropped off the scaffolding and the
insides are all smashed up.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Fred wrote:

In the US the 110V is generated by a transformer, often in the home and
fed with a much higher voltage which I thought was 2.2KV though not sure.
The

Done the same way here - 240V is usually steped down from a 11kV feed.

transformer is tapped to give a nominal 55-0-55 wrt ground potential.

IIUC, the US system typically uses 110 - 0 - 110 centre tapped, and both
lives are taken to the property. That way thay can use both to get a 220V
supply for higher power fixed appliances like tumble driers etc.


--

Yes - seem if I was spinning a yarn and you are indeed correct.

For a slightly more authoritative source have a look at:
http://www.epanorama.net/links/wire_mains.html
and scroll down to "USA/Canada wiring regulations"

Ignore all the bits about Franklin discovering electricity and Edison
inventing the light bulb. Didn't Swan's predate his patent?

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

In article , Tim S
wrote:

You really should get your brainwashed, sycophantic, Tory mind seen to.
You have nothing to gain by your muddled mind.

Don't you *ever* call me a Tory you cankerous festering used tampon!


We have finally found the one who voted Bliar in by the look of it. :-)

--
AJL

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
In article , Tim S
wrote:

You really should get your brainwashed, sycophantic, Tory mind seen to.
You have nothing to gain by your muddled mind.

Don't you *ever* call me a Tory you cankerous festering used tampon!


We have finally found the one who voted Bliar in by the look of it. :-)

Tory BLiar?

You are kidding, right?

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

In article ,
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
In article , Tim S
wrote:

You really should get your brainwashed, sycophantic, Tory mind seen to.
You have nothing to gain by your muddled mind.

Don't you *ever* call me a Tory you cankerous festering used tampon!


We have finally found the one who voted Bliar in by the look of it. :-)

Some wouldn't believe the grieve Thatcher and her cronies caused to the
average working man - including me. 'Nulabour' started well but lost the
plot somewhat.

Watching the outburst from Cameron after the Budget doesn't give me
confidence to change my vote.

--
*Is there another word for synonym?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Tim S
wrote:

You really should get your brainwashed, sycophantic, Tory mind seen to.
You have nothing to gain by your muddled mind.

Don't you *ever* call me a Tory you cankerous festering used tampon!

We have finally found the one who voted Bliar in by the look of it. :-)

Like most of the country.

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
oups.com...

Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
In article , Tim S
wrote:

You really should get your brainwashed, sycophantic, Tory mind seen
to.
You have nothing to gain by your muddled mind.

Don't you *ever* call me a Tory you cankerous festering used tampon!


We have finally found the one who voted Bliar in by the look of it. :-)

Tory BLiar?

Can you confirm lies please.

Why are power tools made in 110V and 240V?
 

In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
roups.com...

Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
In article , Tim S
wrote:

You really should get your brainwashed, sycophantic, Tory mind
seen to.
You have nothing to gain by your muddled mind.

Don't you *ever* call me a Tory you cankerous festering used tampon!


We have finally found the one who voted Bliar in by the look of it. :-)

Tory BLiar?

Can you confirm lies please.

Well he started when he was young (look it up)

he then continued (he used to "watch his favourite footballer from the
stands - only problem was that the footballer retired before Bliar was
old enough to watch football - I forget, it's in Hansard) ...
it went downhill from then

--
geoff