What's that Lidl toy like; anyone bother to find out?

Or should I get the four quid one with all those daft angles?

OT:
Anyone know where I can get my hands on 40 million quid? Now that's
what I call doing it one's self!

Not a funny story really but how the hell can a depot be so wide open?
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...ck=1&cset=true

And I thought British Gas had it all:
http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2006/2/emw348241.htm Now I know why
Sid was so elusive:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

And here's me struggling to find a real spirit level that won't break
me.

Mussengrumble:~)

Weatherlawyer wrote:
What's that Lidl toy like; anyone bother to find out?

Assuming it's the same one that started out at £30+ and is gradually
sinking to the bottom of the market...

Starting from the top and working downwards, the laser/level unit itself
is OK. It throws horizontal and/or vertical lines that are good enough
for most indoor uses, and I've used the spot for outdoor layout work at
ranges up to about 20m in sunlight.

On mine, the accuracy of the crossing laser lines on the wall is at
least as good as a plumb-line and a mid-price bubble level.

The laser/level bar clamps into a flat-bottomed slot on a metal table
that can itself be levelled on three screw feet. Unfortunately the
bullseye levelling bubble is rubbish, so you have to use the bubble in
the laser/level bar, and keep turning it through 90deg to make sure the
table is levelled both ways. There is the usual problem about
interacting adjustments of the three feet.

The table rotates on a strong plastic base, with a nice big 360deg scale
that can be set within a quarter-degree. The rotation ring benefits from
a strip-down and lubrication with *light* silicone grease.

But the tripod lets the whole thing down. It feels like you could
crumple it up with your bare hands - and believe me, you'll want to. To
be able to move the crossed horizontal and vertical lines accurately
over a wall, you must be able to rely on the axis of the tripod being
exactly vertical. And that's where the whole thing fails, because the
levelling bubble on the tripod head is even worse than the one on the
table, and the rise/fall mechanism is weak and wobbly. Also the tripod
twists when rotating the table, and may unscrew.

Because of the tripod, you end up having to nurse the whole thing along
very carefully - the slightest problem, and you have to re-level the
whole thing from the ground up. OTOH if you already have a strong and
accurate rise/fall tripod, and can graft the rotating table onto that,
it's a bargain.

As usual with cheap tools, it makes me covet a proper pendulum level
that doesn't need all these bubble rituals... but that is a very
different price point.



--
Ian White

Ian White wrote:

Starting from the top and working downwards, the laser/level unit itself
is OK. It throws horizontal and/or vertical lines that are good enough
for most indoor uses, and I've used the spot for outdoor layout work at
ranges up to about 20m in sunlight.

I use a large piece of reflective sheeting to shine the spot on.
It is visible in bright sunlight for 30 metres, which is as far
as I've needed to measure.

Ian White wrote:
Weatherlawyer wrote:
What's that Lidl toy like; anyone bother to find out?

Assuming it's the same one that started out at £30+ and is gradually
sinking to the bottom of the market...

Starting from the top and working downwards, the laser/level unit itself
is OK. It throws horizontal and/or vertical lines that are good enough
for most indoor uses, and I've used the spot for outdoor layout work at
ranges up to about 20m in sunlight.

Ian,

I bought the Screwfix laser about two years ago. It is brilliant for
lining up sockets around a room. It was worth buying just for that.

Timegoesby wrote:

Ian White wrote:
Weatherlawyer wrote:
What's that Lidl toy like; anyone bother to find out?

Assuming it's the same one that started out at £30+ and is gradually
sinking to the bottom of the market...

Starting from the top and working downwards, the laser/level unit itself
is OK. It throws horizontal and/or vertical lines that are good enough
for most indoor uses, and I've used the spot for outdoor layout work at
ranges up to about 20m in sunlight.

Ian,

I bought the Screwfix laser about two years ago. It is brilliant for
lining up sockets around a room. It was worth buying just for that.

Agreed - and it's equally good for fixing uprights for spur shelving
around a room. But first I had to use a post level to plumb the stem of
the tripod, and then had to hold it very carefully when swivelling the
head unit around.

As I said, it's only the tripod that lets it down.


--
Ian White

Ian White wrote:

Assuming it's the same one that started out at £30+ and is gradually
sinking to the bottom of the market...

I think thats the one I have, except from Makro.

But the tripod lets the whole thing down. It feels like you could
crumple it up with your bare hands - and believe me, you'll want to.

I've not had that problem, so maybe mine is a different make. I have had a
problem with the tripod in as much as it's just not tall enough. Typical
job - hanging two corner cupboards - dead easy to find the levels, if you
can find something the right height to stand the tripod on.

I do have a decent camera tripod though and it fits the base.

Saved me ages getting the levels on my driveway sorted, although I waited
till late afternoon to do the job, so the dot was easy to see.

As usual with cheap tools, it makes me covet a proper pendulum level
that doesn't need all these bubble rituals... but that is a very
different price point.

I know exactly what you mean!


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

In article . com,
wrote:
I bought the Screwfix laser about two years ago. It is brilliant for
lining up sockets around a room. It was worth buying just for that.

I'd say most would measure from the top of the skirting board? Having all
the sockets at a *true* level might look rather strange in the average
house.

--
*Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Weatherlawyer wrote:
What's that Lidl toy like; anyone bother to find out?

Or should I get the four quid one with all those daft angles?

OT:
Anyone know where I can get my hands on 40 million quid? Now that's
what I call doing it one's self!

Not a funny story really but how the hell can a depot be so wide open?

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...tain-robbery,1
,6254059.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true


Try the BBC for the facts next time.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...nt/4742064.stm

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Ian White wrote:

Assuming it's the same one that started out at £30+ and is gradually
sinking to the bottom of the market...

I think thats the one I have, except from Makro.

But the tripod lets the whole thing down. It feels like you could
crumple it up with your bare hands - and believe me, you'll want to.

I've not had that problem, so maybe mine is a different make.

On mine, the rise-and-fall stem can tilt inside the tube in a very
uncertain way, and it moves again when the clamp is tightened. That
means the bubble level on the tripod head is fairly meaningless.

Which reminds me...

We see a lot of built-in spirit levels of the single-vial, double-vial
("T") and bullseye varieties; but are there any sources of these as
separate components that can be bolted on to existing equipment? The
only one I remember seeing was a bullseye type in the CPC catalogue
(IIRC) and that was too big for many uses.


--
Ian White

Ian White wrote:
Weatherlawyer wrote:

What's that Lidl toy like; anyone bother to find out?

Assuming it's the same one that started out at £30+ and is gradually
sinking to the bottom of the market...

Starting from the top and working downwards, the laser/level unit itself
is OK. It throws horizontal and/or vertical lines that are good enough
for most indoor uses, and I've used the spot for outdoor layout work at
ranges up to about 20m in sunlight.

For further distances, try a black target.

On mine, the accuracy of the crossing laser lines on the wall is at
least as good as a plumb-line and a mid-price bubble level.

The laser/level bar clamps into a flat-bottomed slot on a metal table
that can itself be levelled on three screw feet. Unfortunately the
bullseye levelling bubble is rubbish,

This is used only to get a rough idea of level for the tripod. It is
used in conjunction with the legs of the tripod. Once it is set to
somewhere close to level, just ignore it.


so you have to use the bubble in
the laser/level bar, and keep turning it through 90deg to make sure the
table is levelled both ways. There is the usual problem about
interacting adjustments of the three feet.

To remove the problem of three feet and the interaction of them when
making adjustments, position your self so that the feet are in the
formation of an aircraft's landing gear. One leg furthest away from you
and the other two reaching out to either side of you.
Without moving your feet, put the laser level so that it goes over the
front adjuster and you can now set pitch (forwards to backwards) by
moving the front adjuster. Rotate the level 90 degrees and adjust in
roll the same way. When you are happy with that, turn the level 180
degrees and check again. Any error tells you that the level bubble is
out. For this, there is an answer that involved a piece of wood and a
hammer.

The table rotates on a strong plastic base, with a nice big 360deg scale
that can be set within a quarter-degree. The rotation ring benefits from
a strip-down and lubrication with *light* silicone grease.

But the tripod lets the whole thing down. It feels like you could
crumple it up with your bare hands - and believe me, you'll want to. To
be able to move the crossed horizontal and vertical lines accurately
over a wall, you must be able to rely on the axis of the tripod being
exactly vertical.

Why? The leveling of the rotatable clamp for the laser will cater for this.

And that's where the whole thing fails, because the
levelling bubble on the tripod head is even worse than the one on the
table, and the rise/fall mechanism is weak and wobbly. Also the tripod
twists when rotating the table, and may unscrew.

I bought one of these some years ago. I took a few hours to ensure that
there was no backlash in whole system and that the laser could be
rotated by a finger's touch and it has covered its costs many time over.

The only other thing to check is that the vertical line generator does
just that.
Take a plumb bob and see if the laser line agrees with it. Mine didn't
and I had to put some marks on the laser bubble to correct this. This
meant that when I wanted a vertical line, I hade to change the laser
level setting so that the adaptor would make the line vertical. It was
not out by much, but it would have been visually visible.

One final word on this. Do you know that the laser is pointing in a
level way. Does it point up or down?

To check, measure the laser output relevent to the face it normally sits
on, turn it upside down and calculate again. This will give you the
differnce that the spot will shine at. Now put the laser on a flat,
stable surface and point it at the farthest point that you can. Turn the
leser upside down and measure the differnce, in the vertical, of the
spot. This should be the same as the calculated difference you worked
out earlier. If not, then this will have to be factored in. However, if
you take off the plastic front of the laser, you should see a triangle
of adjustement screws. Good luck with these.

Dave

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 17:00:55 +0000, Ian White wrote:
We see a lot of built-in spirit levels of the single-vial, double-vial
("T") and bullseye varieties; but are there any sources of these as
separate components that can be bolted on to existing equipment? The
only one I remember seeing was a bullseye type in the CPC catalogue
(IIRC) and that was too big for many uses.

I've been looking for a decent self levelling laser level for a while. I've
also got one of those tripod levels which I found a waste of money. The
height adjustment is too limited to be of any use to me.

I almost bought a stanley CL90 laser level last year from my local builders
merchant for £250. Im glad I didnt! I happened to call in Homebase this
week and they had three of the CL90 units for a clearance offer of £74.99!
It is one of these http://tinyurl.com/zb5hd

I have tried it briefly and it is great! The laser sits on a bracket which
itself slides up and down a floor to ceiling pole. The laser unit has 3
modes. Modes 1&2 are self levelling. The bracket also has two keyhole
screws holes for wall mounting.

Mode 1 is a cross pattern. So, for example you can set your tiles level or
set up a row of horizontal pipe clips. Mode 2 is cross pattern and vertical
pattern at a 90 degrees offset. Mode 3 allows you to project a cross
pattern offset from true vertical. This would be handy if you wanted to run
a waste pipe with a set fall.

All in all definetly worth the money. I got mine from the Homebase in
Newmarket so it may be worth calling a store before you travel. The barcode
on the box is 3253561771552.

Martyn


--
Geosolar, Cambridge. Gas central heating installations.
High quality ATAG boilers www.geosolar.co.uk

Ian White formulated the question :
Weatherlawyer wrote:
What's that Lidl toy like; anyone bother to find out?


But the tripod lets the whole thing down. It feels like you could crumple it
up with your bare hands - and believe me, you'll want to. To be able to move
the crossed horizontal and vertical lines accurately over a wall, you must be
able to rely on the axis of the tripod being exactly vertical. And that's
where the whole thing fails, because the levelling bubble on the tripod head
is even worse than the one on the table, and the rise/fall mechanism is weak
and wobbly. Also the tripod twists when rotating the table, and may unscrew.


As usual with cheap tools, it makes me covet a proper pendulum level that
doesn't need all these bubble rituals... but that is a very different price
point.

I described an el cheapo pendulum laser level a while back in the group
- that I am still very pleased with. The pendulum mounting of the laser
completely does away with the need to worry about setting the base with
any great accuracy, just set it roughly level then accurately at the
height you want. Mine cost just £20 - is as accurate H/V as I have been
able to check it with my extremely precise level and plumbob.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Dave wrote:
Ian White wrote:
Weatherlawyer wrote:

What's that Lidl toy like; anyone bother to find out?

Assuming it's the same one that started out at £30+ and is gradually
sinking to the bottom of the market...
Starting from the top and working downwards, the laser/level unit
itself is OK. It throws horizontal and/or vertical lines that are
good enough for most indoor uses, and I've used the spot for outdoor
layout work at ranges up to about 20m in sunlight.

For further distances, try a black target.

Ah, you must have seen me out there, watching the red dot on my black
jeans as I walked backwards into the hole.

On mine, the accuracy of the crossing laser lines on the wall is at
least as good as a plumb-line and a mid-price bubble level.
The laser/level bar clamps into a flat-bottomed slot on a metal
table that can itself be levelled on three screw feet. Unfortunately
the bullseye levelling bubble is rubbish,

This is used only to get a rough idea of level for the tripod. It is
used in conjunction with the legs of the tripod. Once it is set to
somewhere close to level, just ignore it.

Different bubble. I was still talking about the bubble on the rotating
clamp for the laser, not the one on the head of the tripod (we get to
that one later).



so you have to use the bubble in the laser/level bar, and keep
turning it through 90deg to make sure the table is levelled both
ways. There is the usual problem about interacting adjustments of the
three feet.

To remove the problem of three feet and the interaction of them when
making adjustments, position your self so that the feet are in the
formation of an aircraft's landing gear. One leg furthest away from you
and the other two reaching out to either side of you.
Without moving your feet, put the laser level so that it goes over the
front adjuster and you can now set pitch (forwards to backwards) by
moving the front adjuster. Rotate the level 90 degrees and adjust in
roll the same way.

I do that, but it's still a pest because of the problems with rotation.

When you are happy with that, turn the level 180 degrees and check
again. Any error tells you that the level bubble is out. For this,
there is an answer that involved a piece of wood and a hammer.

The table rotates on a strong plastic base, with a nice big 360deg
scale that can be set within a quarter-degree. The rotation ring
benefits from a strip-down and lubrication with *light* silicone grease.
But the tripod lets the whole thing down. It feels like you could
crumple it up with your bare hands - and believe me, you'll want to.
To be able to move the crossed horizontal and vertical lines
accurately over a wall, you must be able to rely on the axis of the
tripod being exactly vertical.

Why? The leveling of the rotatable clamp for the laser will cater for this.

Sorry, you're right about that - the levelling of the tripod head
doesn't matter. But what *does* matter is the wobble in the tripod stem
when it's cranked up and down...

and the rise/fall mechanism is weak and wobbly. Also the tripod
twists when rotating the table, and may unscrew.

I bought one of these some years ago. I took a few hours to ensure that
there was no backlash in whole system and that the laser could be
rotated by a finger's touch

I don't want a light action, because I also use it outdoors, but I do
need a smooth action that allows accurate setting of angles with no
snatch. The first thing I tried was Kilopoise grease, which is designed
specifically for applications like these. It gives a beautifully smooth
motion, but the tripod had nowhere near enough resistance to the
twisting force.

At the moment I've had to compromise with a light grease which still
leaves some snatch, so would be very interested in more details of how
you improved it, Dave.

and it has covered its costs many time over.

Same here. Hate the tripod, but love the level.

The only other thing to check is that the vertical line generator does
just that.
Take a plumb bob and see if the laser line agrees with it. Mine didn't
and I had to put some marks on the laser bubble to correct this. This
meant that when I wanted a vertical line, I hade to change the laser
level setting so that the adaptor would make the line vertical. It was
not out by much, but it would have been visually visible.

Mine is OK. When the clamping table is accurately levelled, the lines on
the wall are vertical and horizontal, as accurately as I can measure
them by more traditional methods.

One final word on this. Do you know that the laser is pointing in a
level way. Does it point up or down?

Good point - I haven't tried it for projecting a dado all around a large
room. However, it's good enough to lay out a wall of uprights and
shelving.

To check, measure the laser output relevent to the face it normally
sits on, turn it upside down and calculate again. This will give you
the differnce that the spot will shine at. Now put the laser on a flat,
stable surface and point it at the farthest point that you can. Turn
the leser upside down and measure the differnce, in the vertical, of
the spot. This should be the same as the calculated difference you
worked out earlier. If not, then this will have to be factored in.
However, if you take off the plastic front of the laser, you should see
a triangle of adjustement screws. Good luck with these.

Thanks for all that information, Dave - definitely a keeper!



--
Ian White

Ian White wrote:

Dave wrote:

Ian White wrote:

For further distances, try a black target.

Ah, you must have seen me out there, watching the red dot on my black
jeans as I walked backwards into the hole.

For some reason, a black target shows up the red laser dot more than
almost any other colour.


I bought one of these some years ago. I took a few hours to ensure
that there was no backlash in whole system and that the laser could be
rotated by a finger's touch


I don't want a light action, because I also use it outdoors, but I do
need a smooth action that allows accurate setting of angles with no
snatch. The first thing I tried was Kilopoise grease, which is designed
specifically for applications like these. It gives a beautifully smooth
motion, but the tripod had nowhere near enough resistance to the
twisting force.

At the moment I've had to compromise with a light grease which still
leaves some snatch, so would be very interested in more details of how
you improved it, Dave.

All I did was to improve it mechanically.

You do raise a point about the wind shifting the laser and I have not
looked at this. Though the rotatable top does have a lock screw, I have
not looked at the consequences of using it. Does it lock without
rotation/lift/shift? Does it lock without rotation, but rotate when
un-locked etc. I will have to look at this, along with any backlash that
may be caused by winding up/down