Knowledgable People.

I have been looking at cources about becomming a Domestice
Electrician. There are 2 aims, 1 wire my own new build, 2 charge for
work on other peoples houses.

There are 5 day Part P cources, which have exames and stuff, and issue
EAL Certificates.

There then appears to be the need to join the NEICC (or similar). At
this point my work (on my own house) is inspected, and I can then
issue Part P certificates. This is probably the cheepest way to wire
my house, if I count my time as "free".

I then set up a company, and have a new carrear, probably doing
further training - I have my own company allready, which can simply do
different work.

Is this all there is too it, or is there a pile of stuff I am not
being told ?

I am allready a CEng, and before Part P would happly wire a whole
house, probably making a few minor mistakes.

Thanks
Rick

"Rick" wrote in message
...

Knowledgable People.

I have been looking at cources about becomming a Domestice
Electrician. There are 2 aims, 1 wire my own new build, 2 charge for
work on other peoples houses.

There are 5 day Part P cources, which have exames and stuff, and issue
EAL Certificates.

There then appears to be the need to join the NEICC (or similar). At
this point my work (on my own house) is inspected, and I can then
issue Part P certificates. This is probably the cheepest way to wire
my house, if I count my time as "free".

I then set up a company, and have a new carrear, probably doing
further training - I have my own company allready, which can simply do
different work.

Is this all there is too it, or is there a pile of stuff I am not
being told ?

I am allready a CEng, and before Part P would happly wire a whole
house, probably making a few minor mistakes.

Thanks
Rick



You must have got your CEng via a spell checker, I thought the post was from
a 14 year old!

You must have got your CEng via a spell checker, I thought the post was from
a 14 year old!


Yeah, go for it! easy, piece of pi55!
Took me a 5 year apprenticeship, 2 more to be approved, and feck knows
how long for Elec Tech.. and NICEIC Oh, and the cable jointing, HV
authorisation,
Data, Comms, Fire Alarms. Design and test, fault finding. Even did a
coded welding course. 50 in march and still learning! so if you start
now you should be finished before Burns night! G




--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 17:51:24 +0000 (UTC), "Grumpy owd man"
wrote:



You must have got your CEng via a spell checker, I thought the post was from
a 14 year old!


Yeah, go for it! easy, piece of pi55!
Took me a 5 year apprenticeship, 2 more to be approved, and feck knows
how long for Elec Tech.. and NICEIC Oh, and the cable jointing, HV
authorisation,
Data, Comms, Fire Alarms. Design and test, fault finding. Even did a
coded welding course. 50 in march and still learning! so if you start
now you should be finished before Burns night! G

This is the exact reason why I asked, I always thought proper
qualified sparkies had years of apprentiship, not just a one week
cource, and sombody check out their first job.

Rick

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 15:41:16 GMT, Rick wrote:

I have been looking at cources about becomming a Domestice
Electrician. There are 2 aims, 1 wire my own new build, 2 charge for
work on other peoples houses.

Are you planning on going full time? Because even as an occasional
part time sparkie with full qualifications (maybe you're primarily a
kitchen or bathroom fitter) it's still far too expensive to part with
the money for NICEIC etc. that you must splash out to be qualified under
Part P.

This is not merely a daft regulation for amateurs, it's a daft
regulation for tradesmen too.

"Rick" wrote in message
...

Knowledgable People.

I have been looking at cources about becomming a Domestice
Electrician. There are 2 aims, 1 wire my own new build,

I can see that might be difficult to do in the old colours and claim it was
all done before 1 Jan 2005

2 charge for
work on other peoples houses.

There are 5 day Part P cources, which have exames and stuff, and issue
EAL Certificates.

Are you sure that is not a course aimed at already qualified electrician,
who simply need to add the ability to self-certify? I certainly wouldn't let
you near my factories if you had only done five days' training, but then
they are not subject to Part P, so I can happily do them myself.

Colin Bignell

In article ,
Rick wrote:
Is this all there is too it, or is there a pile of stuff I am not
being told ?

If you Google on this topic from this group you'll get chapter and verse
on the costs involved. IIRC, it's not that attractive.

--
*We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Rick" wrote in message
...

Knowledgable People.

I have been looking at cources about becomming a Domestice
Electrician. There are 2 aims, 1 wire my own new build, 2 charge for
work on other peoples houses.

There are 5 day Part P cources, which have exames and stuff, and issue
EAL Certificates.

There then appears to be the need to join the NEICC (or similar). At
this point my work (on my own house) is inspected, and I can then
issue Part P certificates. This is probably the cheepest way to wire
my house, if I count my time as "free".

I then set up a company, and have a new carrear, probably doing
further training - I have my own company allready, which can simply do
different work.

Is this all there is too it, or is there a pile of stuff I am not
being told ?

I am allready a CEng, and before Part P would happly wire a whole
house, probably making a few minor mistakes.


Thanks
Rick




I just wonder about "a few minor mistakes" the ability to kill injure and
burn the house down relies on you making minor mistakes its either right or
down right dangerous

Mr Fixit wrote:

I just wonder about "a few minor mistakes" the ability to kill injure and
burn the house down relies on you making minor mistakes its either right or
down right dangerous

Don't quite see the logic there. It depends on the mistake in question
and also if you spot it and rectify it. The majority of the installed
wiring infrastructure in peoples homes across the country are not going
to be to current standards and hence would be considered a "mistake"
should someone implement the same work today, however you don't see
folks frying themselves every five mins as a result.

Generally the folks who never make mistakes are the ones who sit in
their armchairs and never do anything.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Mr Fixit wrote:

I just wonder about "a few minor mistakes" the ability to kill injure and
burn the house down relies on you making minor mistakes its either right
or down right dangerous

Don't quite see the logic there. It depends on the mistake in question and
also if you spot it and rectify it. The majority of the installed wiring
infrastructure in peoples homes across the country are not going to be to
current standards and hence would be considered a "mistake" should someone
implement the same work today, however you don't see folks frying
themselves every five mins as a result.

Generally the folks who never make mistakes are the ones who sit in their
armchairs and never do anything.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=====

================================================== ==========/

how can you wire a 13amp socket incorrectly and it still be 100% safe or a
shower or a cooker & how many house fires start on there own ????
have a look at
http://www.nurs.co.uk/news/articles/...69473296_1.htm
Quote On average 10 people die and about 750 are seriously injured each
year in accidents involving unsafe electrical installations in the home,
according to the Government. In addition, 2,336 house fires last year were
caused by faulty electrical work

just because you have not fried yourself plenty have and I have seen proper
electricians that have fried?

On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 21:49:28 GMT, "Mr Fixit"
wrote:

On average 10 people die and about 750 are seriously injured each
year in accidents involving unsafe electrical installations in the home,
according to the Government. In addition, 2,336 house fires last year were
caused by faulty electrical work

Got a reference for any of these figures? (because they're wrong, or at
least mislabelled).

Amateur electrical installation work is _NOT_ killing large numbers of
people. If it is, show me the figures. Of installation work in general,
amateur work does not have a significantly higher risk than commercial
work (OTOH, the accident rate in carrying the work out is far higher).
The TV celeb's daughter case that gets trotted out to justify part P was
carried out commercially, not as DIY

We do have an issue with electrical safety, particularly those incidents
that lead to house fires - the third major single cause of house fires
(after smoking and cooking) from the last figures I saw.

However take a look at these electrical accidents in more detail. They
have two major causes, firstly portable appliances, secondly old
installations. The first are specifically _not_ installations (and so
are not improved by part P). Now PAT testing is an improvement here and
I certainly welcome its increasing use in commercial premises. That's
something that would be a useful and positive step for a government to
take. In installations causing accidents the causes are predominantly
old failed insulation and unrepaired damage - NOT faulty new
installations.

Part P is not only not a safety measure (it's a tax measure) it's also
an _unsafe_ measure. By making it more difficult and more expensive to
repair old or damaged installations it is making it _more_ likely that
they will cause an accident. Nor does it reduce accidents from fauty new
installations, because the evidence is that the installations just
weren't causing that many accidents in the first place.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 21:49:28 GMT, "Mr Fixit"
wrote:

On average 10 people die and about 750 are seriously injured each
year in accidents involving unsafe electrical installations in the home,
according to the Government. In addition, 2,336 house fires last year were
caused by faulty electrical work

Got a reference for any of these figures? (because they're wrong, or at
least mislabelled).

the DTI ?? http://www.dti.gov.uk/homesafetynetw...f/tvdetail.pdf

Amateur electrical installation work is _NOT_ killing large numbers of
people. If it is, show me the figures. Of installation work in general,
amateur work does not have a significantly higher risk than commercial
work (OTOH, the accident rate in carrying the work out is far higher).
The TV celeb's daughter case that gets trotted out to justify part P was
carried out commercially, not as DIY

We do have an issue with electrical safety, particularly those incidents
that lead to house fires - the third major single cause of house fires
(after smoking and cooking) from the last figures I saw.

However take a look at these electrical accidents in more detail. They
have two major causes, firstly portable appliances, secondly old
installations. The first are specifically _not_ installations (and so
are not improved by part P). Now PAT testing is an improvement here and
I certainly welcome its increasing use in commercial premises. That's
something that would be a useful and positive step for a government to
take. In installations causing accidents the causes are predominantly
old failed insulation and unrepaired damage - NOT faulty new
installations.

Part P is not only not a safety measure (it's a tax measure) it's also
an _unsafe_ measure. By making it more difficult and more expensive to
repair old or damaged installations it is making it _more_ likely that
they will cause an accident. Nor does it reduce accidents from fauty new
installations, because the evidence is that the installations just
weren't causing that many accidents in the first place.

Andy,
I agree, it's to stop electricains doing domestic jobs for folding
money, but if you look closely the tax issue can be partly avoided by
issuing a completion certificate from Guidance note 3 which satisfies
BS 7671, Then issue a periodic test certificate for part 'P' through
the official channels. QED Job's a good un.

In article ,
"Mr Fixit" writes:

http://www.nurs.co.uk/news/articles/...69473296_1.htm
Quote On average 10 people die and about 750 are seriously injured each
year in accidents involving unsafe electrical installations in the home,
according to the Government. In addition, 2,336 house fires last year were
caused by faulty electrical work

Those figures are completely wrong -- no idea where they came from,
but they aren't the Government's figures. The fires figure includes
(and comprises mostly) appliance faults, rather than installation
faults. Deaths due to installation faults has been falling steadily
over the last 30 years, and had already reached insignificant levels
(around 1.8% of accidental deaths in the home). Furthermore, the
government predicts Part P will only reduce those incidents by 20%,
which is only a drop of 0.3% in accidental deaths in the home.
OTOH, deaths due to trips and falls which is orders of magnitiude
bigger, is rising. A campaign to make people chuck out extension
cords and fit more sockets would probably have had a much larger
effect on reducing accidental deaths in the home, whereas Part P
is more likely to lead to have the opposite effect, wiping out any
Part P savings. So if you were looking to justify it on a health
and safety grounds, that just doesn't even come close to standing up.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
"Mr Fixit" writes:

http://www.nurs.co.uk/news/articles/...69473296_1.htm
Quote On average 10 people die and about 750 are seriously injured each
year in accidents involving unsafe electrical installations in the home,
according to the Government. In addition, 2,336 house fires last year
were
caused by faulty electrical work

Those figures are completely wrong -- no idea where they came from,
but they aren't the Government's figures. The fires figure includes
(and comprises mostly) appliance faults, rather than installation
faults. Deaths due to installation faults has been falling steadily
over the last 30 years, and had already reached insignificant levels
(around 1.8% of accidental deaths in the home). Furthermore, the
government predicts Part P will only reduce those incidents by 20%,
which is only a drop of 0.3% in accidental deaths in the home.
OTOH, deaths due to trips and falls which is orders of magnitiude
bigger, is rising. A campaign to make people chuck out extension
cords and fit more sockets would probably have had a much larger
effect on reducing accidental deaths in the home, whereas Part P
is more likely to lead to have the opposite effect, wiping out any
Part P savings. So if you were looking to justify it on a health
and safety grounds, that just doesn't even come close to standing up.

--
Andrew Gabriel
I never said part p would make any difference it was a reference to the OP
saying "I can make a few mistakes and learn from them"
http://www.dti.gov.uk/homesafetynetw...f/tvdetail.pdf

Mr Fixit wrote:

how can you wire a 13amp socket incorrectly and it still be 100% safe or a

I could leave the earth sleeving off - mistake certainly, but unlikely
to (directly) affect safety once installed and working.

shower or a cooker & how many house fires start on there own ????
have a look at
http://www.nurs.co.uk/news/articles/...69473296_1.htm
Quote On average 10 people die and about 750 are seriously injured each
year in accidents involving unsafe electrical installations in the home,
according to the Government. In addition, 2,336 house fires last year were
caused by faulty electrical work

The usual case of the government not understanding their own stats (as
was the case with the RIA for part P). The two thousand odd house fires
include all those started by faulty/misused appliances (the majority of
the cases).

The biggest risk factor with fixed wiring is *not* doing anything to
improve the old/inadequate instalations that are around.

just because you have not fried yourself plenty have and I have seen proper
electricians that have fried?

Sorry, but I am not sure exactly what you are arguing, or how it relates
to the OPs question about the steps required in becoming a qualified
electrician.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Mr Fixit wrote:

how can you wire a 13amp socket incorrectly and it still be 100% safe or
a

I could leave the earth sleeving off - mistake certainly, but unlikely to
(directly) affect safety once installed and working.

shower or a cooker & how many house fires start on there own ????
have a look at
http://www.nurs.co.uk/news/articles/...69473296_1.htm
Quote On average 10 people die and about 750 are seriously injured each
year in accidents involving unsafe electrical installations in the home,
according to the Government. In addition, 2,336 house fires last year
were caused by faulty electrical work

The usual case of the government not understanding their own stats (as was
the case with the RIA for part P). The two thousand odd house fires
include all those started by faulty/misused appliances (the majority of
the cases).

The biggest risk factor with fixed wiring is *not* doing anything to
improve the old/inadequate instalations that are around.

just because you have not fried yourself plenty have and I have seen
proper electricians that have fried?

Sorry, but I am not sure exactly what you are arguing, or how it relates
to the OPs question about the steps required in becoming a qualified
electrician.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

it has nothing to do with becoming a electrician but the blasé way of oh I
can make a few mistakes on my own house and learn from them

In article ,
Mr Fixit wrote:
how can you wire a 13amp socket incorrectly and it still be 100% safe or
a shower or a cooker & how many house fires start on there own ????
have a look at

http://www.nurs.co.uk/news/articles/...69473296_1.htm

That's an advert - not a statistical document.

Quote On average 10 people die and about 750 are seriously injured
each year in accidents involving unsafe electrical installations in the
home, according to the Government. In addition, 2,336 house fires last
year were caused by faulty electrical work

But what they don't say is how many of these faults or accidents are
caused by overloaded extension cables or adaptors, etc, rather than wiring
covered by Part Pee. I'll guess at the *vast* majority.

just because you have not fried yourself plenty have and I have seen
proper electricians that have fried?

Then they need re-training. Last time I got an accidental electric shock
was when I was 14.

--
*Two many clicks spoil the browse *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Last time I got an accidental electric shock
was when I was 14.

And when was the last time you got a 'deliberate' electric shock ?
Surely you don't do what I do and brush a finger across the live just
to make sure everythng is switched off !

Rob

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 15:41:16 GMT, Rick wrote:

|
| Knowledgable People.
|
| I have been looking at cources about becomming a Domestice
| Electrician. There are 2 aims, 1 wire my own new build, 2 charge for
| work on other peoples houses.

I have a very old, 1957, HNC in Electrical Engineering, a *real* 4
year Student apprenticeship in an Engineering factory, and 30 years
experience designing little power stations for aircraft.

Does this qualify me to do house wiring, if I bone up on the latest
regs?
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net
For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 15:41:16 GMT, Rick wrote:

|
| Knowledgable People.
|
| I have been looking at cources about becomming a Domestice
| Electrician. There are 2 aims, 1 wire my own new build, 2 charge for
| work on other peoples houses.

I have a very old, 1957, HNC in Electrical Engineering, a *real* 4
year Student apprenticeship in an Engineering factory, and 30 years
experience designing little power stations for aircraft.

Does this qualify me to do house wiring, if I bone up on the latest
regs?

No. I have a fairly similar background except that mine was a degree
with a 1-3-1 sandwich course. It thus also included quite a lot of
practical 'shop floor' work. However I can think of very little that
one does as an apprentice in an engineering factory that helps in
knowing how to do house wiring (unless you actually worked as an
electrician in the factory of course).

--
Chris Green

In article ,
wrote:
I have a very old, 1957, HNC in Electrical Engineering, a *real* 4
year Student apprenticeship in an Engineering factory, and 30 years
experience designing little power stations for aircraft.

Does this qualify me to do house wiring, if I bone up on the latest
regs?

No. I have a fairly similar background except that mine was a degree
with a 1-3-1 sandwich course. It thus also included quite a lot of
practical 'shop floor' work. However I can think of very little that
one does as an apprentice in an engineering factory that helps in
knowing how to do house wiring (unless you actually worked as an
electrician in the factory of course).

House wiring is 99% building work anyway. The amount of electrical
knowledge needed is relatively small.

--
* I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 17:13:41 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

| In article ,
| wrote:
| I have a very old, 1957, HNC in Electrical Engineering, a *real* 4
| year Student apprenticeship in an Engineering factory, and 30 years
| experience designing little power stations for aircraft.
|
| Does this qualify me to do house wiring, if I bone up on the latest
| regs?
|
| No. I have a fairly similar background except that mine was a degree
| with a 1-3-1 sandwich course. It thus also included quite a lot of
| practical 'shop floor' work. However I can think of very little that
| one does as an apprentice in an engineering factory that helps in
| knowing how to do house wiring (unless you actually worked as an
| electrician in the factory of course).

The first job I did after coming out of the Apprentice School was
electricians mate wiring big machines.
|
| House wiring is 99% building work anyway. The amount of electrical
| knowledge needed is relatively small.

The building bit is a doddle :-)
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net
For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:
I have a very old, 1957, HNC in Electrical Engineering, a *real* 4
year Student apprenticeship in an Engineering factory, and 30 years
experience designing little power stations for aircraft.

Does this qualify me to do house wiring, if I bone up on the latest
regs?

No. I have a fairly similar background except that mine was a degree
with a 1-3-1 sandwich course. It thus also included quite a lot of
practical 'shop floor' work. However I can think of very little that
one does as an apprentice in an engineering factory that helps in
knowing how to do house wiring (unless you actually worked as an
electrician in the factory of course).

House wiring is 99% building work anyway. The amount of electrical
knowledge needed is relatively small.


Full cable calcs for each circuit calculating Earth fault loop impedance and
disconnection times, voltage drop restraints, ever changing regulations,
good practice, ????????


--
* I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 19:13:04 GMT, "Tim Morley" tim.morley*REMOVE
wrote:

|
| "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
| ...
| In article ,
| wrote:
| I have a very old, 1957, HNC in Electrical Engineering, a *real* 4
| year Student apprenticeship in an Engineering factory, and 30 years
| experience designing little power stations for aircraft.
|
| Does this qualify me to do house wiring, if I bone up on the latest
| regs?
|
| No. I have a fairly similar background except that mine was a degree
| with a 1-3-1 sandwich course. It thus also included quite a lot of
| practical 'shop floor' work. However I can think of very little that
| one does as an apprentice in an engineering factory that helps in
| knowing how to do house wiring (unless you actually worked as an
| electrician in the factory of course).
|
| House wiring is 99% building work anyway. The amount of electrical
| knowledge needed is relatively small.
|
|
| Full cable calcs for each circuit calculating Earth fault loop impedance and
| disconnection times, voltage drop restraints, ever changing regulations,
| good practice, ????????

Bit of boning up to do. No probs
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net
For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/

In article ,
Tim Morley tim.morley*REMOVE wrote:
House wiring is 99% building work anyway. The amount of electrical
knowledge needed is relatively small.


Full cable calcs for each circuit calculating Earth fault loop impedance
and disconnection times, voltage drop restraints, ever changing
regulations, good practice, ????????

Don't be silly. In the average house you don't need to calculate anything.

--
*Gargling is a good way to see if your throat leaks.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 7 Jan 2006 12:54:33 GMT, in uk.d-i-y wrote:

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 15:41:16 GMT, Rick wrote:

|
| Knowledgable People.
|
| I have been looking at cources about becomming a Domestice
| Electrician. There are 2 aims, 1 wire my own new build, 2 charge for
| work on other peoples houses.

I have a very old, 1957, HNC in Electrical Engineering, a *real* 4
year Student apprenticeship in an Engineering factory, and 30 years
experience designing little power stations for aircraft.

Does this qualify me to do house wiring, if I bone up on the latest
regs?

No. I have a fairly similar background except that mine was a degree
with a 1-3-1 sandwich course. It thus also included quite a lot of
practical 'shop floor' work. However I can think of very little that
one does as an apprentice in an engineering factory that helps in
knowing how to do house wiring (unless you actually worked as an
electrician in the factory of course).

I did. Well as an apprentice in the electricians department, aircraft
wiring dept, and aircraft electricians school (still got my Bristol
Britannia wiring manual somewhere). Does that qualify me? :-)

Seriously, don't you need an up to date City & Guilds or whatever they
call them these days to work as an electrician? I won't be surprised if
the answer is "no"!

Phil
The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/
The Google uk.d-i-y archive is at http://tinyurl.com/65kwq
Remove NOSPAM from address to email me

snipped

Seriously, don't you need an up to date City & Guilds or whatever they
call them these days to work as an electrician? I won't be surprised if
the answer is "no"!

Most decent reputablecompanies wont take you on unless you can prove
competence and qualifications

On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 10:31:11 GMT, "Stephen Dawson"
wrote:

Most decent reputablecompanies wont take you on unless you can prove
competence and qualifications

So what? Safety has never been about what the decent companies did,
it's what the cowboys do.

Part P is based around the status of "head office", not the skill of the
people actually doing the work. As there is more work around than
electricians can handle at present, there's a great incentive for
unscrupulous firms who do have the relevant NICEIC members for the
organisation to employ less than fully skilled sparkies to work on the
jobs themselves.

Rick wrote:
Knowledgable People.

I have been looking at cources about becomming a Domestice
Electrician. There are 2 aims, 1 wire my own new build, 2 charge for
work on other peoples houses.

There are 5 day Part P cources, which have exames and stuff, and issue
EAL Certificates.

There then appears to be the need to join the NEICC (or similar). At
this point my work (on my own house) is inspected, and I can then
issue Part P certificates. This is probably the cheepest way to wire
my house, if I count my time as "free".

I then set up a company, and have a new carrear, probably doing
further training - I have my own company allready, which can simply do
different work.

Is this all there is too it, or is there a pile of stuff I am not
being told ?

I am allready a CEng, and before Part P would happly wire a whole
house, probably making a few minor mistakes.

Thanks
Rick

Rick, and everone else in his position
Iv'e seen a lot of folk on this site take the rise out of someone who
wants to be a spakie, this is easy but not constructive or too smart.
It's true what the 'grumpy old man said' but it does not mean it can't
be done. I have trained mature people to become self employed
electricians in my professional role as a college lecturer. Colleges
near to you will also be able to do the same for you. It will take
time, at least a couple of years to get your City & Guilds 2330 level
3. Following this you will need to gain the City & Guilds 2391
Inspection testing and verification course (usually 12 weeks evenings)
Then you will be able to apply for Part 'P' registration, NAPIT seem to
be the most accessible for one man bands.
You could wire the house and get the Building Control of the council to
appoint a tester to inspect the job, or you could appoint your own
electrician to carry out the test. Don't be surprised if you are given
a long list of remedial tasks, talk to the testing electrician first
discuss the job before you start, get advice, get a copy of the On Site
Guide issued by the IEE, its the best £17 you will spend.
Finally, to avoid those little mistakes that may lead to fire or
electrocution, do have it tested, preferably at the end of first fix
and again on completion.
Unlike others, I recognise your qualifications to date, but you must be
realistic, you may know some of the electrical science, but your
knowlege of the regulations and installation practices will be weak. My
advice, join a C&G 2330 course at your local college, preferably
evening only, you will meet many students of your own age and you will
learn nearly as much from each other as you will from the lecturer.

baz wrote:

Thanks baz, at last a sensible response to the question...

Rick, and everone else in his position
Iv'e seen a lot of folk on this site take the rise out of someone who
wants to be a spakie, this is easy but not constructive or too smart.
It's true what the 'grumpy old man said' but it does not mean it can't

I accept what he said and also believe that you never stop learning, but
it is perhaps also worth noting that most domestic wiring contains only
a subset of the full range of skills that your would expect a well
experienced professional electrician to posses. Most domestic
installations don't include three phase, or the need to carry out much
underground cable jointing, or go anywhere near HV.

be done. I have trained mature people to become self employed
electricians in my professional role as a college lecturer. Colleges
near to you will also be able to do the same for you. It will take
time, at least a couple of years to get your City & Guilds 2330 level

Out of interest what level of knowledge does 2330 go up to?

How much work would be involved in achieving this for someone starting
from the position of having a technical/engineering background, a
reasonable understanding of BS7671, plus a good understanding of the
sort of topics you see covered in books by Whitfield, and Scadden etc?

Unlike others, I recognise your qualifications to date, but you must be
realistic, you may know some of the electrical science, but your
knowlege of the regulations and installation practices will be weak. My

It strikes me that one of the areas not covered so well in the normal
lists of recommended reading, is that of actual instalation practice -
i.e. the physical process of getting wiring into a building neatly
quickly and safely. In fact association with the good folks over at
uk.d-i-y seems to cover far more of that sort of information than I have
seen formally documented anywhere.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

I got called to a 'Fire Job ' many years ago [too many]. Fireman Sam
was there stating that the cause was "without doubt an electrical
fault...". Upon asking what thought path had brought him to this
conclusion I was rather smuggly told to ...'look at that cable, it is
all burnt!...Having been in a fire I considered this to be a statement
of the obvious, but I let him carry on, hoping to glean some knowledge.
Alas no. I pointed out that the burnt wire in question was actually a
TV Co-Ax. Reply? still an electrical fault!! I then pointed out that
the electrical service to the house had been chopped off in the road
some 4 weeks prior to the fire and that there was no supply to the
property. [due for demolition]
I asked how many electrical fires he may have possibly and inadvertantly
diagnosed incorrectly...Answer NONE. Makes you wonder.

A politician uses statistics in the same way as a drunk usese a lamp
post...more for the support than the illumination


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

In article ilgate.org,
"Grumpy owd man" writes:
I got called to a 'Fire Job ' many years ago [too many]. Fireman Sam
was there stating that the cause was "without doubt an electrical
fault...". Upon asking what thought path had brought him to this
conclusion I was rather smuggly told to ...'look at that cable, it is
all burnt!...Having been in a fire I considered this to be a statement
of the obvious, but I let him carry on, hoping to glean some knowledge.
Alas no. I pointed out that the burnt wire in question was actually a
TV Co-Ax. Reply? still an electrical fault!! I then pointed out that
the electrical service to the house had been chopped off in the road
some 4 weeks prior to the fire and that there was no supply to the
property. [due for demolition]
I asked how many electrical fires he may have possibly and inadvertantly
diagnosed incorrectly...Answer NONE. Makes you wonder.

When I was trying to gather figures together for the Part P
consultation response, I came across a reference by someone
trying to estimate chip pan fires that some chip pan fires
were being recorded as electrical fires because they happened
on an electric hob, resulting in misleading figures.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 08 Jan 2006 14:26:45 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:


When I was trying to gather figures together for the Part P
consultation response, I came across a reference by someone
trying to estimate chip pan fires that some chip pan fires
were being recorded as electrical fires because they happened
on an electric hob, resulting in misleading figures.

It is no particular secret that many fires of unknown origin get
labelled "electrical fault". Similarly it isn't rare for a fire
caused by someone leaving a cigarette somewhere to be called an
"electrical fault" if the fire crew feel they have already suffered
enough without having hassle from an insurance company.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

I got an interesting statement from my brother the other day that Part
P doesn't apply in Scotland - is this true ?

Rob

wrote in message
oups.com...
I got an interesting statement from my brother the other day that
Part
P doesn't apply in Scotland - is this true ?

Surprisingly - Scotland is not part of England -&-Wales.
Scottish Law, Polis, Education, Procurators Fiscal,
Sheriffs etc. etc does not apply in England & Wales.
Similarly the efforts of ODPM over control of Building
Regulations doesn't apply in Scotland - but; they've got
their own standards.

--

Brian

In article .com,
" writes:
I got an interesting statement from my brother the other day that Part
P doesn't apply in Scotland - is this true ?

Different building regs in Scotland, and in particular, the Part
letters are different.

Scotland already did its Part P equivalent before England/Wales
Part P. It is similar in principle (conformance to BS7671
required to conform, etc), but without all the stupid
bureaucracy which is wrapped around the England/Wales version.
If I understand correctly, electrical work by itself isn't
notifiable, but it is if it's part of other work which is
notifiable (such as an extension). It is up to the BCO to
decide on competence for signing off too -- often they will
judge a particular DIYer to be competent in the context of the
work which was undertaken, and they can also judge a particular
electrician to be incompetent. However, it's a few years since I
looked at it, and I might have misremembered some of the detail.

--
Andrew Gabriel