Hi all,

So, yesterday we popped across the road to say a seasonal 'hello' to a
couple of elderly neighbours and as we walked in they said "sorry it's
a bit cold but our central heating has stopped working ..".

Anyway, apparently the last time their Netaheat / Potterton 10/16
'stopped working' it was the fan and he changed it himself.

We took the covers off and found the fan rattling and shaking about so
guessed it was that again.

I drove him to the local place he got the last fan from and the shop
had gone, so on to the Plumb Centre and as luck would have (?) it they
had one in stock.

It all went back in ok and they had heating again ;-)

But something I wasn't quite ready for was the price of the
'assembly'. I wasn't 'surprised' as in "woah, cheaper to buy a new
boiler" or wanting to fabricate the assembly for the money myself but
more 'I know that these probably cost little to make, could we have
got it cheaper elsewhere' sorta thing (these are pensioners after all)
?

Of course we were 'there', it was 4:30 on a dead week (re ordering
etc) they were old, it was cold etc etc so we bit the bullet and
bought it but I just wondered what these things *should* cost on
average from the 'right place' (assuming the PC wasn't)?

So, what would you guys consider a 'typical' price for a complete fan
assembly (motor, fan, cowling, backplate etc) please?

An afterthought was 'I wonder if we can actualy get just the motor
(cheaper) and rebuld this assembly ready for 'next time''?

All the best ..

T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

So, yesterday we popped across the road to say a seasonal 'hello' to a
couple of elderly neighbours and as we walked in they said "sorry it's
a bit cold but our central heating has stopped working ..".

Anyway, apparently the last time their Netaheat / Potterton 10/16
'stopped working' it was the fan and he changed it himself.

We took the covers off and found the fan rattling and shaking about so
guessed it was that again.

I drove him to the local place he got the last fan from and the shop
had gone, so on to the Plumb Centre and as luck would have (?) it they
had one in stock.

It all went back in ok and they had heating again ;-)

But something I wasn't quite ready for was the price of the
'assembly'. I wasn't 'surprised' as in "woah, cheaper to buy a new
boiler" or wanting to fabricate the assembly for the money myself but
more 'I know that these probably cost little to make, could we have
got it cheaper elsewhere' sorta thing (these are pensioners after all)
?

Of course we were 'there', it was 4:30 on a dead week (re ordering
etc) they were old, it was cold etc etc so we bit the bullet and
bought it but I just wondered what these things *should* cost on
average from the 'right place' (assuming the PC wasn't)?

So, what would you guys consider a 'typical' price for a complete fan
assembly (motor, fan, cowling, backplate etc) please?

An afterthought was 'I wonder if we can actualy get just the motor
(cheaper) and rebuld this assembly ready for 'next time''?

All the best ..

T i m


Depending upon boiler, £70 - £180, they are damn expensive for what they
are, probably cost buttons to make.

Angus

T i m was thinking very hard :
Of course we were 'there', it was 4:30 on a dead week (re ordering
etc) they were old, it was cold etc etc so we bit the bullet and
bought it but I just wondered what these things *should* cost on
average from the 'right place' (assuming the PC wasn't)?

There are retail prices, trade prices and trade prices with discounts.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 10:49:04 GMT T i m wrote :
So, what would you guys consider a 'typical' price for a complete fan
assembly (motor, fan, cowling, backplate etc) please?

Geoff will sell you a recon exchange for £45

http://www.cetltd.com/default.asp?part=53

Now shock us by telling us what you actually paid!

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.12 released 8 Dec 2005]

In message , Tony Bryer
wrote
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 10:49:04 GMT T i m wrote :
So, what would you guys consider a 'typical' price for a complete fan
assembly (motor, fan, cowling, backplate etc) please?

Geoff will sell you a recon exchange for £45

http://www.cetltd.com/default.asp?part=53

It's closer to £70 when you add VAT and two lots of postage.

--
Alan
news2005 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

In message , T i m
writes
Hi all,

So, yesterday we popped across the road to say a seasonal 'hello' to a
couple of elderly neighbours and as we walked in they said "sorry it's
a bit cold but our central heating has stopped working ..".

So, what would you guys consider a 'typical' price for a complete fan
assembly (motor, fan, cowling, backplate etc) please?

An afterthought was 'I wonder if we can actualy get just the motor
(cheaper) and rebuld this assembly ready for 'next time''?

£45 + del + Vat (Exch) from me

any new boiler parts are extortionately priced - because they can !

As for self rebuild, a) you would need the right motor (power, fixings,
shaft length and diameter etc) and b) the likelihood of you buggering up
the air rotor so that it can't be rebalanced are extremely high


--
geoff

In message , Alan
writes
In message , Tony Bryer
wrote
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 10:49:04 GMT T i m wrote :
So, what would you guys consider a 'typical' price for a complete fan
assembly (motor, fan, cowling, backplate etc) please?

Geoff will sell you a recon exchange for £45

http://www.cetltd.com/default.asp?part=53

It's closer to £70 when you add VAT and two lots of postage.

But then if a new fan is £80, add VAT and that's £94 (assuming they have
one in stock). A Netaheat fan from me still has a new motor made by the
same company as make the original motors.

It still has a 12 month warranty

It has also been run for a couple of hours to burn it in.


--
geoff

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:22:33 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , T i m
writes
Hi all,

So, yesterday we popped across the road to say a seasonal 'hello' to a
couple of elderly neighbours and as we walked in they said "sorry it's
a bit cold but our central heating has stopped working ..".

So, what would you guys consider a 'typical' price for a complete fan
assembly (motor, fan, cowling, backplate etc) please?

An afterthought was 'I wonder if we can actualy get just the motor
(cheaper) and rebuld this assembly ready for 'next time''?

£45 + del + Vat (Exch) from me

Ok .. thanks ..

any new boiler parts are extortionately priced - because they can !

Well, I guessed that was part of the case sigh.

As for self rebuild, a) you would need the right motor (power, fixings,
shaft length and diameter etc)

But not rocket science though eh? I did actually take the motor to
bits as the 'slack' felt typical of a dry / worn 'oilite' bearing
(like the the heater fan in my MKII Escort based kit car) but I think
this was something broken / collapsed as the beaings seemed ok on the
shaft (infact I had to de-rust the spindle to get the front bearing
off easily).

and b) the likelihood of you buggering up
the air rotor so that it can't be rebalanced are extremely high

Erm, how? I noted the 'balance' of the exsisting roter couldn't have
been ideal with the two dead wasps stuck through the fins on the same
side of the blower! (what's the chances of that happening eh) ;-)

I removed (completely) the blower spindle grub screw, sprayed the
area from all directions with some WD40 (inc down the grub screw hole)
then carefully twisted the spindle out of the blower using my hands
supporting everything (holding the motor rotor for a better grip)?

I bet these (record playerg) motors are fairly commonly used across
several brands and if could be found loose from source wouldn't run to
more than a tennor shrug ?

All the best ..

T i m

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:43:57 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Alan
writes
In message , Tony Bryer
wrote
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 10:49:04 GMT T i m wrote :
So, what would you guys consider a 'typical' price for a complete fan
assembly (motor, fan, cowling, backplate etc) please?

Geoff will sell you a recon exchange for £45

http://www.cetltd.com/default.asp?part=53

It's closer to £70 when you add VAT and two lots of postage.

But then if a new fan is £80, add VAT and that's £94 (assuming they have
one in stock). A Netaheat fan from me still has a new motor made by the
same company as make the original motors.

Hmmm, and could you supply one to a keen d-i-yer then perchance ;-)

The most difficult job when changing the assembly was getting the
cover off the boiler, in that it was screwed on with 4 substantial
machine screws and was quite heavy (compared with others I've come
across where the front 'panel' comes off on it's own).

All the best ..

T i m

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:54:33 GMT T i m wrote :
any new boiler parts are extortionately priced - because they can !

Well, I guessed that was part of the case sigh.

What did Plumb Center actually charge?

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.12 released 8 Dec 2005]

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:12:24 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:43:57 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Alan
writes
In message , Tony Bryer
wrote
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 10:49:04 GMT T i m wrote :
So, what would you guys consider a 'typical' price for a complete fan
assembly (motor, fan, cowling, backplate etc) please?

Geoff will sell you a recon exchange for £45

http://www.cetltd.com/default.asp?part=53

It's closer to £70 when you add VAT and two lots of postage.

But then if a new fan is £80, add VAT and that's £94 (assuming they have
one in stock). A Netaheat fan from me still has a new motor made by the
same company as make the original motors.

Hmmm, and could you supply one to a keen d-i-yer then perchance ;-)

The most difficult job when changing the assembly was getting the
cover off the boiler, in that it was screwed on with 4 substantial
machine screws and was quite heavy (compared with others I've come
across where the front 'panel' comes off on it's own).

The front panel of a Netaheat is the main sealed combustion chamber, and
it gets hot in use. On many new boilers it's simply a cosmetic panel
covering the main chamber cover and does not get so hot.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:43:57 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Alan
writes
In message , Tony Bryer
wrote
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 10:49:04 GMT T i m wrote :
So, what would you guys consider a 'typical' price for a complete fan
assembly (motor, fan, cowling, backplate etc) please?

Geoff will sell you a recon exchange for £45

http://www.cetltd.com/default.asp?part=53

It's closer to £70 when you add VAT and two lots of postage.

But then if a new fan is £80, add VAT and that's £94 (assuming they have
one in stock). A Netaheat fan from me still has a new motor made by the
same company as make the original motors.

It still has a 12 month warranty

It has also been run for a couple of hours to burn it in.

Ah... but you don't have the overheads or (presumably) the same margin
expectations or a distribution channel to feed.....


--

..andy

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:43:57 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Alan
writes
In message , Tony Bryer
wrote
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 10:49:04 GMT T i m wrote :
So, what would you guys consider a 'typical' price for a complete fan
assembly (motor, fan, cowling, backplate etc) please?

Geoff will sell you a recon exchange for £45

http://www.cetltd.com/default.asp?part=53

It's closer to £70 when you add VAT and two lots of postage.

But then if a new fan is £80, add VAT and that's £94 (assuming they have
one in stock). A Netaheat fan from me still has a new motor made by the
same company as make the original motors.

It still has a 12 month warranty

It has also been run for a couple of hours to burn it in.

Ah... but you don't have the overheads

Of course I have overheads - they're not as large as Potterton because
I'm not so top heavy and don't earn as much as top executives etc at
potterton

That's a fairly crap argument Andy. Their unit cost / fan is much less
than mine

or (presumably) the same margin
expectations or a distribution channel to feed.....

That's not my problem

--
geoff

T i m wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:22:33 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , T i m
writes
Hi all,

So, yesterday we popped across the road to say a seasonal 'hello' to a
couple of elderly neighbours and as we walked in they said "sorry it's
a bit cold but our central heating has stopped working ..".

So, what would you guys consider a 'typical' price for a complete fan
assembly (motor, fan, cowling, backplate etc) please?

An afterthought was 'I wonder if we can actualy get just the motor
(cheaper) and rebuld this assembly ready for 'next time''?

£45 + del + Vat (Exch) from me

Ok .. thanks ..

any new boiler parts are extortionately priced - because they can !

Well, I guessed that was part of the case sigh.

As for self rebuild, a) you would need the right motor (power, fixings,
shaft length and diameter etc)

But not rocket science though eh? I did actually take the motor to
bits as the 'slack' felt typical of a dry / worn 'oilite' bearing
(like the the heater fan in my MKII Escort based kit car) but I think
this was something broken / collapsed as the beaings seemed ok on the
shaft (infact I had to de-rust the spindle to get the front bearing
off easily).

and b) the likelihood of you buggering up
the air rotor so that it can't be rebalanced are extremely high

Erm, how? I noted the 'balance' of the exsisting roter couldn't have
been ideal with the two dead wasps stuck through the fins on the same
side of the blower! (what's the chances of that happening eh) ;-)

I removed (completely) the blower spindle grub screw, sprayed the
area from all directions with some WD40 (inc down the grub screw hole)
then carefully twisted the spindle out of the blower using my hands
supporting everything (holding the motor rotor for a better grip)?

I bet these (record playerg) motors are fairly commonly used across
several brands and if could be found loose from source wouldn't run to
more than a tennor shrug ?

All the best ..

T i m

Shaded pole motors are now common in microwaves, and those are a fiver
at the tip. And of course a fan is already fitted. If thats what you
need.

NT

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:52:41 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:54:33 GMT T i m wrote :
any new boiler parts are extortionately priced - because they can !

Well, I guessed that was part of the case sigh.

What did Plumb Center actually charge?

Wel, they said it was 150 on their system but they would do it for 109
+ Vat or summat making 124 in total.

Ok, points that were considered at the time.

These were 75+ year old folk that were 'ok' for money but not rolling
in it (if you know what I mean).

It was 16:30, we were in a shop that had a new / genuine one in stock
(just one) and the weather forecast was more 'cold'.

His missus had just had a new knee fitted and he didn't drive.

The pavements were very slippery.

Although he had changed the fan himself some years earlier he was now
80 and being short (so would have to stand on a stool / steps to do
the job whereas I could do it from the floor) it was probably lucky I
got involved (they already had one of them out of action) ;-(

He would have probably taken cash out of the post office to pay for it
(no cards etc) had he got it himself (risks re 80 yr olds wandering
about with cash on them).

They had family visitors coming round that night.

They also offered that had they had to pay someone to fit it (in cash
rather than sausage rolls and tea g) it would have cost even more
(and not fixed within 45 mins)? ;-)

So, all in all a 'reasonable' deal and I suppose as Ed says "The cost
is not in the object itself but in supporting an industry to have one
ready for you when you need it" .. and this time they did ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

On 29 Dec 2005 10:09:49 -0800, wrote:


I bet these (record playerg) motors are fairly commonly used across
several brands and if could be found loose from source wouldn't run to
more than a tennor shrug ?

All the best ..

T i m

Shaded pole motors are now common in microwaves, and those are a fiver
at the tip. And of course a fan is already fitted. If thats what you
need.

Well, it could well be .. it's just a matter of finding the right dims
(everything else is fine).

Failing that I might be able to re-bearing it .. I need an excuse to
fire up the ML10 ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

In message , raden
wrote
In message , Alan
writes
In message , Tony Bryer
wrote
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 10:49:04 GMT T i m wrote :
So, what would you guys consider a 'typical' price for a complete fan
assembly (motor, fan, cowling, backplate etc) please?

Geoff will sell you a recon exchange for £45

http://www.cetltd.com/default.asp?part=53

It's closer to £70 when you add VAT and two lots of postage.

But then if a new fan is £80, add VAT and that's £94 (assuming they
have one in stock). A Netaheat fan from me still has a new motor made
by the same company as make the original motors.

It still has a 12 month warranty

It has also been run for a couple of hours to burn it in.




I wasn't suggesting that the reconditioned unit wasn't good value for
money compared with anew unit - only that for the DIYer it would cost
£70 rather than the £45 quoted.

--
Alan
news2005 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 17:39:27 GMT, raden wrote:


But then if a new fan is £80, add VAT and that's £94 (assuming they have
one in stock). A Netaheat fan from me still has a new motor made by the
same company as make the original motors.

It still has a 12 month warranty

It has also been run for a couple of hours to burn it in.

Ah... but you don't have the overheads

Of course I have overheads - they're not as large as Potterton because
I'm not so top heavy and don't earn as much as top executives etc at
potterton

Right, so that's part of the story, and I guess that another is that
perhaps you have only one shareholder to satisfy, while they have
their institutional investors etc.


That's a fairly crap argument Andy. Their unit cost / fan is much less
than mine

Of course it's a crap argument, but you have to look at the complete
business model from material cost and production line to what the
customer gets and pays for. However, looking on the bright side, if
they and their distribution arrangement was able to put a new product
in the customer's hands at a lower cost than you can do a refurbished
one, then there wouldn't be a market for the latter.


or (presumably) the same margin
expectations or a distribution channel to feed.....

That's not my problem

No, but it is your advantage.


--

..andy

In message , T i m
writes
On 29 Dec 2005 10:09:49 -0800, wrote:


I bet these (record playerg) motors are fairly commonly used across
several brands and if could be found loose from source wouldn't run to
more than a tennor shrug ?

All the best ..

T i m

Shaded pole motors are now common in microwaves, and those are a fiver
at the tip. And of course a fan is already fitted. If thats what you
need.

Well, it could well be .. it's just a matter of finding the right dims
(everything else is fine).

And power


Failing that I might be able to re-bearing it ..

Netaheats use sintered bearings

I need an excuse to
fire up the ML10 ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

--
geoff

Andy Hall wrote:
Ah... but you don't have the overheads or (presumably) the same margin
expectations or a distribution channel to feed.....



It's known as "Supply and Demand in a competitive market place". If the
manufacturer were efficient, Geoff couldn't compete, but with a large
inefficient British company to deal with, he has no problem. Are his
units "improved" in design to give longer life spans? Interesting that
circulation pumps are so much cheaper to replace. Presumably because
they are more interchangeable. I purchased a unique spare part for a
Keter shed some months back. Extremely good value for money and superb
service.

Regards
Capitol

Regards
Capitol

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:16:57 -0000, "Fentoozler" nospam@mapson
wrote:

Depending upon boiler, £70 - £180, they are damn expensive for what they
are, probably cost buttons to make.

If it's a £180 it may be cheaper to have the motor "reconditioned".

sponix

On 29 Dec 2005 10:09:49 -0800, wrote:

Shaded pole motors are now common in microwaves, and those are a fiver
at the tip. And of course a fan is already fitted. If thats what you
need.

In fact complete boilers are very common at or local tip.

sponix

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 19:53:58 GMT, raden wrote:


Failing that I might be able to re-bearing it ..

Netaheats use sintered bearings

http://www.kellysearch.com/gb-product-7715.html

In message , Capitol
writes


Andy Hall wrote:
Ah... but you don't have the overheads or (presumably) the same margin
expectations or a distribution channel to feed.....


It's known as "Supply and Demand in a competitive market place".
If the manufacturer were efficient, Geoff couldn't compete, but with a
large inefficient British company to deal with, he has no problem. Are
his units "improved" in design to give longer life spans?

No - they're repaired / reconditioned, not modified

Modification is a very dangerous path to go down (the item would no
longer be approved for use in that boiler)

having said that, I e.g. use better quality bearings in fan motors

Interesting that circulation pumps are so much cheaper to replace.
Presumably because they are more interchangeable. I purchased a unique
spare part for a Keter shed some months back. Extremely good value for
money and superb service.

Regards
Capitol

Regards
Capitol

--
geoff

In message , sponix
writes
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 19:53:58 GMT, raden wrote:


Failing that I might be able to re-bearing it ..

Netaheats use sintered bearings

http://www.kellysearch.com/gb-product-7715.html

/me pours beer, opens popcorn ... and waits for the show to start

--
geoff

In message , sponix
writes
On 29 Dec 2005 10:09:49 -0800, wrote:

Shaded pole motors are now common in microwaves, and those are a fiver
at the tip. And of course a fan is already fitted. If thats what you
need.

In fact complete boilers are very common at or local tip.

Every different boiler (with but a few exceptions) has it's own
different fan (look on my website - the list isn't exhaustive)

most of them are physically incompatible, a few are physically
interchangeable, but different power ratings or have opposite rotations


--
geoff