After tolerating a poor signal for a few years - which became intolerable
when Channel 5 started, I signed up to cable TV. Reception problems over and
more channels as well.

I am now hoping to save some money - and tried someone's Freeview Set top
box. All I got was a blue screen message saying no signal - so clearly it is
bad. Previous attempts to improve the signal got me a 12 foot mast - which
looked so hideous as was badly fitted that I had it taken down - and the
installer had to pay for repairs to my brickwork which he had shattered with
a Hilti Gun.
A later attempt got me a mast head amplifier - better, but then along came
NTL.

My roof is virtually a pyramid shape so height is a problem.

Question - will a decent installer be able to measure the signal strength
before fitting anything? I don't want to get more hardware fitted if it
isn't going to get me a Freeview signal. Nearby homes have high gain aerials
and presumably Freeview - but they have gable ends or chimneys. I am at the
bottom of a hill.

--


--
John

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:40:57 GMT, "john"
wrote:

After tolerating a poor signal for a few years - which became intolerable
when Channel 5 started, I signed up to cable TV. Reception problems over and
more channels as well.

I am now hoping to save some money - and tried someone's Freeview Set top
box. All I got was a blue screen message saying no signal - so clearly it is
bad. Previous attempts to improve the signal got me a 12 foot mast - which
looked so hideous as was badly fitted that I had it taken down - and the
installer had to pay for repairs to my brickwork which he had shattered with
a Hilti Gun.
A later attempt got me a mast head amplifier - better, but then along came
NTL.

My roof is virtually a pyramid shape so height is a problem.

Question - will a decent installer be able to measure the signal strength
before fitting anything?

He would need to go up onto the roof with an antenna on a pole as
though he was fitting it and to measure not only signal strength but
quality as well. For example, if there are a lot of reflections
(ghosting) on your analogue picture, you may not be able to get an
usable DVB-T signal - it is a combination of signal strength and
quality that is important. A good installer should have a suitable
test instrument.

I don't want to get more hardware fitted if it
isn't going to get me a Freeview signal. Nearby homes have high gain aerials
and presumably Freeview - but they have gable ends or chimneys. I am at the
bottom of a hill.

High gain aerials increase signal strength and may also improve
reflection issues. Generally what your neighbours have should be a
clue.

Another option would be to get an old Sky receiver, a dish and a free
to air card (if you don't want to give Rupert any money).
That is likely to be more successful.


--

..andy

Did you use the menu on the Freeview box to scan for stations? You may
be on a different transmitter to the one your freind is using.

IME, Freeview gets a picture even when you have a crap signal so I am
suprised you dont get anything.

"David P" wrote in message
oups.com...
Did you use the menu on the Freeview box to scan for stations? You may
be on a different transmitter to the one your freind is using.

IME, Freeview gets a picture even when you have a crap signal so I am
suprised you dont get anything.


I think you have something there - I realise I am aimed at Waltham - the
owner of the Freeview Box is aimed at Sutton Coldfield - She didn't bring
the remote control so we were a bit limited as to what we could do. I guess
it is a menu driven thing.


John

Yeah it is a menu thing. Consider getting a box from Argos, play with
it, because you can always take it back.

On 21 Dec 2005 09:18:42 -0800, "David P"
wrote:

Yeah it is a menu thing. Consider getting a box from Argos, play with
it, because you can always take it back.

oh no you can't, Argos have thought of this freeview boxes are
excluded

"This item is excluded from the 16 day money back guarantee. See the
Additional Information panel for full details. Please note that this
product is excluded from our 16-Day Money Back Guarantee. This does
not affect your statutory rights."

Chris wrote:
On 21 Dec 2005 09:18:42 -0800, "David P"
wrote:

Yeah it is a menu thing. Consider getting a box from Argos, play
with it, because you can always take it back.

oh no you can't, Argos have thought of this freeview boxes are
excluded

"This item is excluded from the 16 day money back guarantee. See the
Additional Information panel for full details. Please note that this
product is excluded from our 16-Day Money Back Guarantee. This does
not affect your statutory rights."


Yes Chris that is very correct, you "can't" take a box back if there
is nothing actually wrong with it. So you (TINY) have to be a bit
creative when taking the unit back say there is something wrong with it,
the person on the tills (usually) hasn't got the skills to test for
"broken" electronics and they certainly won't have any equipment so they
will take you (TINY) at your word and give you (TINY) a refund, they may
offer to swap the box but you (TINY) can just say you have no faith
anymore in that manufacturer or Argos (something at the back of my mind
tells me that you (TINY) decide if you want the item replaced or a
refund). Have a story ready (you (TINY) could get a signal with a
friends) in case they want some background .
--
This post contains no hidden meanings, no implications and certainly no
hidden agendas so it should be taken at face value. The wrong words
may be used this is due to my limitations with the English language .

Chris wrote:

On 21 Dec 2005 09:18:42 -0800, "David P"
wrote:


Yeah it is a menu thing. Consider getting a box from Argos, play with
it, because you can always take it back.


oh no you can't, Argos have thought of this freeview boxes are
excluded

"This item is excluded from the 16 day money back guarantee. See the
Additional Information panel for full details. Please note that this
product is excluded from our 16-Day Money Back Guarantee. This does
not affect your statutory rights."

Doesn't statutory rights include that it is fit for use then?
Low signal strength at the OP location would infer that it is not fit
for use.

Dave

In message , Chris
writes
On 21 Dec 2005 09:18:42 -0800, "David P"
wrote:

Yeah it is a menu thing. Consider getting a box from Argos, play with
it, because you can always take it back.

oh no you can't, Argos have thought of this freeview boxes are
excluded

"This item is excluded from the 16 day money back guarantee. See the
Additional Information panel for full details. Please note that this
product is excluded from our 16-Day Money Back Guarantee. This does
not affect your statutory rights."


When you can get one for under 40 quid from e.g. richer sounds, just go
and buy one

--
geoff

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 17:32:23 +0000, Chris
wrote:

On 21 Dec 2005 09:18:42 -0800, "David P"
wrote:

Yeah it is a menu thing. Consider getting a box from Argos, play with
it, because you can always take it back.

oh no you can't, Argos have thought of this freeview boxes are
excluded

"This item is excluded from the 16 day money back guarantee. See the
Additional Information panel for full details. Please note that this
product is excluded from our 16-Day Money Back Guarantee. This does
not affect your statutory rights."

Don't buy from them if they won't refund if they don't work. Around
where I live a few people can get freeview. We bought a IDTV which
kept crashing so we took it back for a refund. I'm not going to
bother with freeview until they sort out the signal here.

Mark.

David P wrote:

Did you use the menu on the Freeview box to scan for stations? You may
be on a different transmitter to the one your freind is using.

Agreed.

IME, Freeview gets a picture even when you have a crap signal so I am
suprised you dont get anything.

I totally disagree here.

At our location, we are in a bit of a dip from a good clear view of the
Winter Hill TV mast. TV reception had been getting worse for several
years, so I decided to get a new aerial installed.

Aerial rigger came and measured the signal strength and advised us that
a good quality, high gain one would give us digital signal strength.
He mentioned some trees that he had said that he had avoided the aerial
from looking through. At first, everything was fine, until autumn came
along. The trees got the leaves wet and out went digital TV.

Due to the good aerial, analogue TV was still watchable.

So, a poor signal will not give you digital TV.

Dave

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:40:57 GMT, "john"
wrote:

| After tolerating a poor signal for a few years - which became intolerable
| when Channel 5 started, I signed up to cable TV. Reception problems over and
| more channels as well.
|
| I am now hoping to save some money - and tried someone's Freeview Set top
| box. All I got was a blue screen message saying no signal - so clearly it is
| bad. Previous attempts to improve the signal got me a 12 foot mast - which
| looked so hideous as was badly fitted that I had it taken down - and the
| installer had to pay for repairs to my brickwork which he had shatteredwith
| a Hilti Gun.
| A later attempt got me a mast head amplifier - better, but then along came
| NTL.
|
| My roof is virtually a pyramid shape so height is a problem.
|
| Question - will a decent installer be able to measure the signal strength
| before fitting anything? I don't want to get more hardware fitted if it
| isn't going to get me a Freeview signal. Nearby homes have high gain aerials
| and presumably Freeview - but they have gable ends or chimneys. I am atthe
| bottom of a hill.

Have you considered waiting till Freesat is up and running sometime
next year? Only BBC, ITV programs plus a lot of minor things are up
and running ATM Ch4 and Ch5 are still encrypted by $ky :-(

See sig for details.

--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Sat Ch4, Ch5, only GBP20
http://www.freesatfromsky.com - "what is freesat?" - "view T&C" -
What will I receive "£20 ... one Viewing Card". You will also need
$ky box and dish. List of Channels at
http://www.wickonline.com/fta.htm
All BBC & ITV Channels are now FTA and do not need this card.

Ask in uk.tech.digital-tv where you will find knowledgeable and helpful
people like Bill Wright

--
Peter Crosland

"Peter Crosland" wrote in message
...
Ask in uk.tech.digital-tv where you will find knowledgeable and helpful
people like Bill Wright

--
Peter Crosland


Thanks to the group - I obtained the remote and went through the set up
menu - it worked fine - no picture problems at all. I now need to call NTL
and cancel my cable TV. However, I want to still get their Broadband (for
now...!)

Any recommendations on Set Top Boxes? What should I look out for? Is there
much to chose between them?

Thanks

"john" wrote in
:


Any recommendations on Set Top Boxes? What should I look out for? Is
there much to chose between them?

Look for 2 scarts out so you can record and watch something different.

They all have coax loop through, a very few have a modulator so you can run
a TV without a scart off them - a few people might require this.

There are other considerations like sensitivity to impulsive
interference, which I haven't been able to quantify wxcept the Goodmans
GDB4 doesnt have it :-((

mike

mike ring wrote:

"john" wrote in
:


Any recommendations on Set Top Boxes? What should I look out for? Is
there much to chose between them?


Look for 2 scarts out so you can record and watch something different.

How does this work?

I was under the impression that it was a single signal receiver.

Dave

Dave wrote in
:



Look for 2 scarts out so you can record and watch something different.

How does this work?

I was under the impression that it was a single signal receiver.

The usual configuration is

one scart lead from Set Top Box to TV - watch prog
one scart lead from Set Top Box to Recorder - record freeview
one scart lead from Recorder to TV - watch replay.

If you have/will get a hard disc recorder that can record something, and
play back something else at the same time, or let you catch up on a prog
while it's still being recorded, you need the extra output.

It's also easier operationally - freeview is AV1, recorder is AV2

mike

Hi Mike

mike ring wrote:

[...]

There are other considerations like sensitivity to impulsive
interference, which I haven't been able to quantify wxcept the Goodmans
GDB4 doesnt have it :-((


Is there supposed to be much difference between STBs/tuners in this
area? I thought that sensitivity to imulse interference was a
characteristic of the DAB modulation scheme (COFDM). I also have a GDB4
and the effect of the cooker igniter is very obvious. Mind you, the
last run of cable (from the loft to the socket) is old cable, not the
nice new stuff (FR100?) the guy fitted with the new aerial. A asked to
coil up an extra few meters in the loft and 'one day soon' I plan to
complete the run to the socket.

I worked on developing DAB Set Top boxes in the early (OnDigital) days
and have noticed that the modern tuners are a hell of a lot better (as
in: more sensitive) than they used to be. No idea if rejection of
impulse interference is better though...

Jon N

"jkn" wrote in
oups.com:

Hi Mike

mike ring wrote:

[...]

There are other considerations like sensitivity to impulsive
interference, which I haven't been able to quantify wxcept the Goodmans
GDB4 doesnt have it :-((


Is there supposed to be much difference between STBs/tuners in this
area? I thought that sensitivity to imulse interference was a
characteristic of the DAB modulation scheme (COFDM).

I don't know - I've asked around on alt.tech.digital-tv and not get much in
the line of an answer; If I thought for sure it would not droput sound and
occasionally pixelate (interference is far worse on sound), I'd buy a Sony
tomorrow, but I just can't find out
I also have a GDB4 and the effect of the cooker igniter is very obvious.
Mind you, the last run of cable (from the loft to the socket) is old
cable, not the nice new stuff (FR100?) the guy fitted with the new
aerial. A asked to
coil up an extra few meters in the loft and 'one day soon' I plan to
complete the run to the socket.

I've got all good cable to my box. It's not clear if the interference is
aerial or mains-borne, so I put an aerial filter in and a ferrite on the
power lead - no improvement.

I worked on developing DAB Set Top boxes in the early (OnDigital) days
and have noticed that the modern tuners are a hell of a lot better (as
in: more sensitive) than they used to be.

They certainly are, my philips O/D was pretty useless
No idea if rejection of
impulse interference is better though...

Could never watch a prog long enough to find out...

mike

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 18:17:04 GMT, john wrote:

"Peter Crosland" wrote in message
...
Ask in uk.tech.digital-tv where you will find knowledgeable and helpful
people like Bill Wright

--
Peter Crosland


Thanks to the group - I obtained the remote and went through the set up
menu - it worked fine - no picture problems at all. I now need to call NTL
and cancel my cable TV. However, I want to still get their Broadband (for
now...!)

Any recommendations on Set Top Boxes? What should I look out for? Is there
much to chose between them?

Thanks

SONY. works like a charm, and has the best menu systems . Expect to pay 60
quid on ebay tho :-(

In article ,
john wrote:
Any recommendations on Set Top Boxes? What should I look out for? Is
there much to chose between them?

I've got four, and the best by far is the Sony VTX-D800U. It's also the
most expensive. ;-(

--
*I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Stingy Argos!!

They are all much the same, go for one you like the look of! I think
most have a 7 day TV guide which allows you to select stuff to record.
I have a Sony one, one niggle is that the first time you switch over to
channel 19 it wont display anything - chose another channel, then back
to 19 and its fine!

In article , john
writes
After tolerating a poor signal for a few years - which became intolerable
when Channel 5 started, I signed up to cable TV. Reception problems over and
more channels as well.

I am now hoping to save some money - and tried someone's Freeview Set top
box. All I got was a blue screen message saying no signal - so clearly it is
bad. Previous attempts to improve the signal got me a 12 foot mast - which
looked so hideous as was badly fitted that I had it taken down - and the
installer had to pay for repairs to my brickwork which he had shattered with
a Hilti Gun.
A later attempt got me a mast head amplifier - better, but then along came
NTL.

My roof is virtually a pyramid shape so height is a problem.

Question - will a decent installer be able to measure the signal strength
before fitting anything? I don't want to get more hardware fitted if it
isn't going to get me a Freeview signal. Nearby homes have high gain aerials
and presumably Freeview - but they have gable ends or chimneys. I am at the
bottom of a hill.

--



You might be better off getting a second hand sky box and a 20 quid
viewing card. Yes good riggers do exist but are few and far between and
they are on a roll charging the earth for a "Digital" aerial.

Around here Cambridge they asking £199-99 and getting the bu**er!.

A new Freeview from Sky no further subs costs £150 all installed!....
--
Tony Sayer

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 22:17:43 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:




You might be better off getting a second hand sky box and a 20 quid
viewing card. Yes good riggers do exist but are few and far between and
they are on a roll charging the earth for a "Digital" aerial.

Around here Cambridge they asking £199-99 and getting the bu**er!.

Which should be money for old rope considering that the relatively
flat terrain should be providing quite good conditions and the only
reflections being from the poles on the punts.


A new Freeview from Sky no further subs costs £150 all installed!....

--

..andy

In article , Andy Hall
writes
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 22:17:43 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:




You might be better off getting a second hand sky box and a 20 quid
viewing card. Yes good riggers do exist but are few and far between and
they are on a roll charging the earth for a "Digital" aerial.

Around here Cambridge they asking £199-99 and getting the bu**er!.

Which should be money for old rope considering that the relatively
flat terrain should be providing quite good conditions and the only
reflections being from the poles on the punts.

Yes quite.. except that there some areas which are quite built up...


A new Freeview from Sky no further subs costs £150 all installed!....


--
Tony Sayer

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:54:55 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , Andy Hall
writes
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 22:17:43 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:




You might be better off getting a second hand sky box and a 20 quid
viewing card. Yes good riggers do exist but are few and far between and
they are on a roll charging the earth for a "Digital" aerial.

Around here Cambridge they asking £199-99 and getting the bu**er!.

Which should be money for old rope considering that the relatively
flat terrain should be providing quite good conditions and the only
reflections being from the poles on the punts.

Yes quite.. except that there some areas which are quite built up...

Oh yes. Ely Cathedral. I forgot ;-)

The price point probably has more to do with perception in comparison
with a complete Sky package and what the market will stand.

A local installer who I used some time ago (does commercial work and
fully equipped with test gear), does a basic supply and install
(contract grade antenna, TV coax, job done fastest way) for around £70
or a higher quality job with decent antenna, CT100 routed carefully
and as much as possible invisibly for about £120-130.


--

..andy

In article , Andy Hall
writes
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:54:55 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , Andy Hall
writes
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 22:17:43 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:




You might be better off getting a second hand sky box and a 20 quid
viewing card. Yes good riggers do exist but are few and far between and
they are on a roll charging the earth for a "Digital" aerial.

Around here Cambridge they asking £199-99 and getting the bu**er!.

Which should be money for old rope considering that the relatively
flat terrain should be providing quite good conditions and the only
reflections being from the poles on the punts.

Yes quite.. except that there some areas which are quite built up...

Oh yes. Ely Cathedral. I forgot ;-)

Ah yes!, now as it 'appens I could tell you quite a bit about the
absorptive effects of olithic limestone on VHF/FM signals

There are parts of central Cambridge where reception is rather
difficult!..

The price point probably has more to do with perception in comparison
with a complete Sky package and what the market will stand.

A local installer who I used some time ago (does commercial work and
fully equipped with test gear), does a basic supply and install
(contract grade antenna, TV coax, job done fastest way) for around £70
or a higher quality job with decent antenna, CT100 routed carefully
and as much as possible invisibly for about £120-130.

Who's that, Mike Lane?, regency aerials were the ones quoting silly
money FWIW...



--
Tony Sayer

..