I have been given a beautiful antique Windsor chair by a relative,
which has a badly broken semi-circular strut
(about 20in in diameter) under the seat.

I assume the chair itself is made of oak,
but what would this bent strut be made of?

I'm thinking of trying a bit of amateur restoration ...


--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail (80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 14:35:30 +0000, Timothy Murphy
wrote:

I have been given a beautiful antique Windsor chair by a relative,
which has a badly broken semi-circular strut
(about 20in in diameter) under the seat.

I assume the chair itself is made of oak,
but what would this bent strut be made of?

I'm thinking of trying a bit of amateur restoration ...

http://www.windsorchairresources.com/

Andrew Heggie wrote:

Traditional Windsor chairs were made up of different woods, beech for the
legs, elm for the seat, oak for the splat (ornate bit at the back rest)
and ash for the hoop. I suspeck ash would have been favourite for the bent
bits.

Thanks very much for the info,
and to the other responder for the site
http://www.windsorchairresources.com/,
even though this is rather US-oriented.

--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail (80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 14:35:30 +0000, Timothy Murphy
wrote:

I assume the chair itself is made of oak,

If it's Irish, it's not safe to assume anything. Shortage of timber led
to any old bit of tree finding its way into furniture.

It's also somewhat unlikely to be made of oak in any part. Generally the
favoured timbers were elm for the seat (it doesn't split in narrow
cross-grain sections) and either beech or ash for the spindles and
hoops, because they steam bend and turn nicely. They also coppice well,
particularly ash, as a source of fast-growing cheap spindles.

Oak doesn't bend or turn well and it grows in big pieces on slow-growing
trees. If you have oak, use it for big flat boards instead of turnery,

but what would this bent strut be made of?

Be careful working on truly old Windsors. They're surprisingly valuable
- especially Irish chairs.

Try putting some photos onto the web, then asking in rec.antiques.
There's a knowledgeable chap in there from Northern Ireland who might be
helpful.

Andy Dingley wrote:

I assume the chair itself is made of oak,

If it's Irish, it's not safe to assume anything. Shortage of timber led
to any old bit of tree finding its way into furniture.

Thanks for the response.
The chair is actually English, or at least from England.

It's also somewhat unlikely to be made of oak in any part. Generally the
favoured timbers were elm for the seat (it doesn't split in narrow
cross-grain sections) and either beech or ash for the spindles and
hoops, because they steam bend and turn nicely. They also coppice well,
particularly ash, as a source of fast-growing cheap spindles.

There is a wooden "splat" (not sure if that is the right word) at the back,
which looks like oak to me.
After advice given me here earlier,
I looked again at the seat, and I think this is probably elm,

Oak doesn't bend or turn well and it grows in big pieces on slow-growing
trees. If you have oak, use it for big flat boards instead of turnery,

but what would this bent strut be made of?

Be careful working on truly old Windsors. They're surprisingly valuable
- especially Irish chairs.

Try putting some photos onto the web, then asking in rec.antiques.
There's a knowledgeable chap in there from Northern Ireland who might be
helpful.

I'll do that.
Thanks for the suggestion.

I have the bits of the broken semicircular strut,
and thought as a first step I'd try gluing them together,
perhaps with a dowel where they join to strengthen it.
However, I think the strut is probably too broken for this to work,
so I was going to see next if I could find a cabinet maker
who would make me a new strut.
(This is slightly more awkward than might appear,
as the strut is fatter in the middle
than at the ends where it is slotted into the two front legs.)

The chair is very nice.
I think it belonged to my Cheshire great-grandmother,
who died in 1890.
I rescued it from my American sister-in-law (living in Cheshire)
who was about to throw it out.

I was told that my great-grandmother was
"Cheshire born and Cheshire bred,
Thick in arm and thick in head".
I don't know if that is a general remark about Cheshire folk?




--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail (80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 13:05:03 +0000, Timothy Murphy
wrote:

There is a wooden "splat" (not sure if that is the right word) at the back,
which looks like oak to me.

That's where you'd find a splat. Of couse without a picture I can't tell
if your chair has a splat, or if it just has spindles - a splat is a
widened flat spindle that's in a position for you to lean back on it,
it's not a strut that's in a separate alignment.

Splats may well have been oak, if that was to hand. Probably still more
common as ash or beech though. It's (possibly) an indication that a
"Windsor" with an oak splat was made by a generalised furniture maker or
joiner who had the timber on hand, not a chairmaking specialist.
Chairmaking historically was a high-volume batch trade. Very few people
assembled chairs, most of them just turned out spindles or whatever and
passed the parts along to the next chap. They did tend to be very good
and very quick at making one type of thing, but they did everything in a
consistent manner - they would use the same timber for all parts that
they made, simply because they hada lot of it and it's all that they
had.

It's not easy to distinguish old timber species apart. By far the
easiest way is to hold up samples of known timbers next to it. If you're
used to working with oak, then you'll recognise oak. If you're not, then
a verbal description can't always indicate whether it's oak, ash, beech,
elm or even chestnut. Look for the rays - in beech these make the
distinctive tiny specks in flatsawn wood, in oak they make the radial
rays you can see in quartered faces or as straight lines in end grain.
In ash you won't see them.


but what would this bent strut be made of?

Can't tell. Try posting a picture. It could equally well be oak, ash or
beech, and it doesn't really much matter. A reproduction or repair has
to be "appropriate", not a perfect substitute.


I have the bits of the broken semicircular strut,
and thought as a first step I'd try gluing them together,

If it's a strut, it probably has some force on it. It's probably also
too small to take a dowel without splitting out instead. Modern glues
might hold it, but I'd probably look at making a replacement.

I wouldn't look too hard for a cabinetmaker. They're hard to find and
most of them are millwork shops doing high-end office fitting these
days. As there are a good many specialised chairmakers and even Windsor
chairmakers around, I'd look for one of them. I was at Westonbirt for
the Festival of Wood a month or two back and the place was crawling with
them!

(This is slightly more awkward than might appear,
as the strut is fatter in the middle
than at the ends where it is slotted into the two front legs.)

That sort of hand-shaped swelling is quite common in chairs, rare in
anything else. That's one reason why you want a chair maker, not a case
maker. Could it have been turned, _then_ steam-bent ?

"Cheshire born and Cheshire bred,
Thick in arm and thick in head".
I don't know if that is a general remark about Cheshire folk?

I think I've heard it applied as a description to most counties in
England.

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 17:28:59 +0000, Andy Dingley
wrote:


Splats may well have been oak, if that was to hand. Probably still more
common as ash or beech though. It's (possibly) an indication that a
"Windsor" with an oak splat was made by a generalised furniture maker or
joiner who had the timber on hand, not a chairmaking specialist.
Chairmaking historically was a high-volume batch trade. Very few people
assembled chairs, most of them just turned out spindles or whatever and
passed the parts along to the next chap. They did tend to be very good
and very quick at making one type of thing, but they did everything in a
consistent manner - they would use the same timber for all parts that
they made, simply because they hada lot of it and it's all that they
had.


They were the original "Bodgers" More accurately "Chair Bodgers"

A Bodger being a workman who starts a job but doesn't see it finished.

http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-bod1.htm

DG